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The World Cup: J'accuse!

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Mon Oncle Ignatius

15:57 / 27.06.06

You know, those who want to enjoy this thread as originally purposed, it occurs to me, have the option of putting Sauron, Gumbitch and Pato Banton on ignore. [...] Add Flyboy, Falconer and myself to taste.

But where would we be elsewhere on d'lovely 'Lith without being able to see their (and of course, your) posts on non-football threads if we were to switch on the ignore function?

17:02 / 27.06.06

I'm wondering whether Pato & co are intending to point up the occasional Barbephenomenon of 'straight' threads about football risking being bogged down by those of us who lack the gene posting "I hate football". If this the case, then can we assume that yes, we get it? I'm happy to promise never to intrude in such a way upon a 'straight' football discussion again.

This thread being specifically for the haterz, however, I'll register my irritation with the tendency of many at the moment - work colleagues, cab drivers, shop assistants, random blokes in pubs - to initiate conversation relating to the World Cup then express absolute incredulity that I'm not watching it and don't have an opinion. It's all making me feel hopelessly gay (in the Chris Moyles not-relating-in-any-way-to-sexuality-nuh-uh sense of the term). Contrast with me asking people who they want out of the Big Brother House this week, which frequently incredulity that I am choosing to watch such boring, worthless shit.

17:38 / 27.06.06

Right there with you Ganesh, except I am a BB hater too. I watched a bit of The Hoose over the weekend and the England match too, just to make sure I wasn't missing anything, and they were both appallingly dull. The only entertainment was Rooney's Uruk-Hai style tackling and that woman's amazing fake tits, I continue to hate both in equal measure. Am I gay?

Haus- if we ignored you it would mean missing priceless gems like this;
No need to apologise & thanks for the attention. Don't feel bad, you're very sweet.
(quote apostrophised there for Ganesh)

17:48 / 27.06.06

My point, Quantum, is that watching BB apparently invokes a suspicious gayness (Moylesian or otherwise), whereas not watching the World Cup invokes a suspicious gayness.

17:55 / 27.06.06

I thought your contribution to my football thread in Games was very good, actually, Ganesh. It may be pretty much all you have to say on the subject, but it was definitely a worthwhile read.

I like the WC and BB, and had rather hoped all episodes of the latter would be put back to 10, but apparently it's just when England play? Incidentally, that has consistently marked a turgid low point of the former - I'd suggest anyone wanting to watch attractive football, in order that they might garner some understanding of what's good about the game, should probably watch the Germany v. Argentina quarter-final; no guarantees, mind - there never is, but both have been thrilling in every match thus far.

18:24 / 27.06.06

My point, Quantum.. iggzactly- I hate BB so I should be straight as a die but hate football so I can't be. People are getting mixed messages from me until they ask about the Doctor, then all becomes clear- too geek to get laid at all.
It was a weak reference to the old 'Am I gay?' string of jokes, my apologies. Anyway, why is all this pro-football talk allowed here? Shouldn't there be more haterz? Aren't they all overpayed gits?

18:46 / 27.06.06

Yes, they're all overpayed git buzzards whose pointless penalty kick outs delay the third to last episode of Lost season 2 until midnight. What kind of time is that for Lost!? Surely it deserves to trump football..

21:53 / 27.06.06

Anyone got a good reason to actually hate the World Cup?

Well, why does anyone hate anything? In terms of mass-marketed public entertainments, it tends to be a conflation of a mild-to-intense personal disinterest in the event itself, plus a general feeling of frustration with the baseline assumption that everyone's excited about it, to the exclusion of pretty much everything else for said event's duration. See also, Christmas, New Year, Princess Diana's funeral, the Olympics, Wimbledon, Live 8, the FA Cup, etc, etc.

Now you, Banton, presumably loved, love, and will continue to love all of these things unconditionally for the rest of your life, as is your right. And you're correct in a way - why can't everyone just be happy all the time? It's a real festival of football that's been laid on for us Englanders this summer, and what kind of a socially inadequate loser could fail to be swept away be the majesty of the spectacle of some of the world's most highly-trained, paid and, crucially, promoted athletes evah fumbling about on a lawn for an hour and a half, when they're not actively being sick on it, to what, some might say, has so far been very little effect?

The really bad kind, that's what. The kind of person who quite conceivably hasn't even ordered one of those special World Cup pizzas from Domino's yet.

Like yourself, I'm sure, I just pity those people. Mainly, and again, I'm sure, like yourself, I'm just waiting for the re-release of 'Vindaloo.'

Keith Allen's even written a new verse apparently, so on the count of three (everyone join in!);

'Vind-aloo!
Vind-aloo!
AND WE ALL LIKE VINDALOO!'

(do ... you ... see ...)

22:15 / 27.06.06

That's the business, Grandma. Hit, nail, head etc. You're a right Bobby Dazzler.

08:36 / 28.06.06

"See also, Christmas, New Year, Princess Diana's funeral, the Olympics, Wimbledon, Live 8, the FA Cup, etc, etc.

Now you, Banton, presumably loved, love, and will continue to love all of these things unconditionally for the rest of your life, as is your right."

This is where you let yourself down Grandma. You've lumped people who love puking grief fests like Di's death in with those who sporting events.

I like the world cup because of the football, not the flag sporting white van riding Engerlanding jingoistic nonsense that goes with it.

You need to extrapolate the two to make your argument Pato proof.

Whisky Priestess

09:04 / 28.06.06

You need to extrapolate the two to make your argument Pato proof.

Are you sure you're using this word correctly, Pato? Do you want it to mean "make some connection between" Diana's death and football? Because that's not what you're saying at the moment.

09:07 / 28.06.06

I presume you mean me?

No I'm saying the opposite- I'm saying you have to extrapolate a love of football from a love of over the top grieving at state events.

Regrettable Juvenilia

09:18 / 28.06.06

Main Entry: ex·trap·o·late
Pronunciation: ik-'stra-p&-"lAt
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -lat·ed; -lat·ing
1 : to infer (values of a variable in an unobserved interval) from values within an already observed interval
2 a : to project, extend, or expand (known data or experience) into an area not known or experienced so as to arrive at a usually conjectural knowledge of the unknown area [extrapolates present trends to construct an image of the future] b : to predict by projecting past experience or known data [extrapolate public sentiment on one issue from known public reaction on others]

...Just so we're clear.

09:19 / 28.06.06

I like the world cup because of the football

Wow! I hate the World Cup because of the football! What are the chances?!

Good reasons to hate, oh let me count the ways, did you ever hear the phrase 'Opiate of the masses'? Important things are happening and being largely ignored because of the obsession never mind the jingoism. Do you know how much money is involved? How much media attention is wasted?
"FIFA stated, in a press release, that the total value of revenues for the current edition of the World Cup will be around 1,9 billion euros, from which: 1,2 billion will come from media rights" When the WAGs drunken binges are more important than the worlds 2nd richest man donating $20 billion dollars to charity let me know and I'll love the football.

More importantly, the football played has been shite. Alex's Grandma could do better in her Zimmer even after a bottle of Bombay Sapphire and a couple of caps of valium.

Regrettable Juvenilia

09:24 / 28.06.06

Quantum, during the months and years during which the World Cup is not on, does the kind if media attention that is devoted to the football get devoted to "important things"? If the game of football had never been invented, but our world was otherwise the same, do you think the media and "the masses" would give the portion of their attention that they give to football to "important things", or to some other, equally flippant concern?

09:30 / 28.06.06

Sorry I meant extricate. How embarrassing- I've probably been using that word wrongly on and off for c.15 years. Apologies to all, we all make mistakes, not keeping my eye on Mount Doom, sending Ring Wraiths to do an Eye's job etc.

Anyway replace the dud word with 'separate' and the argument still stands.

09:32 / 28.06.06

Yes Alex, while I enjoy football I'm not actually what 'you' would consider to be 'a football fan'. Don't like stella, jeering, fighting, racism or The Sun Newspaper, weirdly not everyone who's passionate about football does. Strange hey?!

09:35 / 28.06.06

Quantum, your hatred of the world cup because of the football is absolutely justified, it's not that I was calling into question.

10:13 / 28.06.06

do you think the media and "the masses" would give the portion of their attention that they give to football to "important things", or to some other, equally flippant concern?

What, like BB? I hate Wimbledon, the Olympics and the snooker just as much, my hatred is egalitarian as can be. Love the scare quotes round "masses" by the way, nice allusion to sheeple hating. Don't tar me with the 'footy fans = stella swilling nazis' brush please, it's lazy.
It's the football event itself I hate. I have many more reasons. Nobody cares enough to hear them I suspect.

Regrettable Juvenilia

10:20 / 28.06.06

They're not "scare quotes", they're quotation marks. Because I was quoting something you said. And I wasn't tarring you with any brush, this is a separate issue - forget about the people who consume the media if that makes things easier, and focus on the media itself. Do you also hate all famous people?

10:30 / 28.06.06

How do you know the football's been shite, Quanters? You'll get no argument that England-Ecuador was diabolical, but about half the games I've seen (I have watched an awful lot) have been thoroughly enjoyable spectacles.

10:31 / 28.06.06

I was quoting something you said.

Whoops, my bad. I forgot the Marx quote was there, my apologies.

Do you also hate all famous people?

I hate the way the media focusses on them to the exclusion of all else, some of them I hate their media persona, I hate the cult of celebrity, but I can't say I hate the people themselves.

10:43 / 28.06.06

How do you know the football's been shite, Quanters?

Taking other people's word for it who've watched them. Up until the 87th minute wasn't the Tobago/Trinidad match rubbish too?
I hate the world cup for making me waste neurons on football, grr. Why can I remember scores of matches I don't care about and didn't watch?

10:49 / 28.06.06

The argument still stands

Well I'm not sure if it does. It's the World Cup's status as a national event that 'we' can all get behind that's the irritant - the actual sport is almost a side issue. Let's face it, the beautiful game's on TV pretty much all year round these days; those interested have got ample opportunity to gorge themselves on the antics of Roo, Becks, Owen-y(?) and the others almost all of the time. And it's not as if anyone's complaining about it here.

In the sense that the World Cup is being rammed down Joe and Josephine Public's throats (Flags everywhere, TV schedules interfered with, pubs infested with, office conversations dominated by,) though, to the extent that it takes a positive effort to ignore it, it's got far more in common with the coverage of Princess Di's funeral than it has with the average sporting event. Like Premiership football, the Royal family's something it's usually quite easy not to think about, except for every now and again when it explodes all over the papers and TV as an insitution that was as little Engerlanders, gawd bless us, are presumed to not just care about, but to actively love. And 'Our Boys' are currently being afforded a similar status, one from which the flag-waving jingoism you complain about seems to be largely inseperable. I don't know about anyone else, but that anyway, is what gets on my ancient, sagging tits about the World Cup - whether or not you, Sauron, 'just like the football' is in that respect a bit beside the point.

Good to know that you and Banton, as fans of the World Cup, are so keen to distance yourselves from the white van-driving, Stella-drinking masses though.

10:55 / 28.06.06

Read my post again Alex.

11:06 / 28.06.06

In terms of scale of event, you may have a point, but in terms of the reasons behind the scale I think the World Cup and Di still cannot be compared.

Stopping the country for a month for the football may be over kill, but at least there is, with the majority positive intent behind it. I cannot see anything positive about the guilt edged wailing of t'other.

I also feel that if you don't like football at worst you're going to be jovially chastised for it*, whereas if you didn't buy Candle in the Wind II you could be accused of high treason.

* there will no dount be a few occasions where some idiots take it far further than this, but I don't think they should drag down the majority

Haus of Mystery

11:09 / 28.06.06

Is football the one where the men throw logs in the air?

11:10 / 28.06.06

No, they're chairs

11:17 / 28.06.06

While I enjoy football I'm not actually what 'you' would consider to be 'a football fan'. Don't like stella, jeering, fighting, racism or The Sun Newspaper.

But the average 'football fan' does? That seems to be what you're implying.

And certainly, the next time I have a pint of Stella, I'll be sure and put a brick through a curry house window.

11:41 / 28.06.06

I cannot see anything positive about the guilt edged wailing of t'other.

But presumably the intentions behind it weren't actively malign? This was a country in mourning for it's People's Princess after all, who, lest we forget, did a lot of work for charity.

I suppose you could see both the Cup and the Funeral as different forms of emotional blood-letting, in some sense, for the overheated UK body politic. Probably necessary, but fairly unpleasant to watch if you're not joining in.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:44 / 28.06.06

I hate Stella. It tastes like Kronenbourg does after you've put a fag out in it.

11:54 / 28.06.06

I don't see anything positive about crying for someone after death even if she was Father Teresa in drag.

11:58 / 28.06.06

'you could see both the Cup and the Funeral as different forms of emotional blood-letting'
..or maybe binge drinking. Exciting and fun if you're involved having a great old laugh, messy and embarrassing if you're watching sober.

12:00 / 28.06.06

But the average 'football fan' does? That seems to be what you're implying.

No! I'm suggesting that's what you're implying.

12:31 / 28.06.06

'you could see both the Cup and the Funeral as different forms of emotional blood-letting'
..or maybe binge drinking. Exciting and fun if you're involved having a great old laugh, messy and embarrassing if you're watching sober

Brilliant

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