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The World Cup: J'accuse!

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Goodness Gracious Meme

06:41 / 24.06.06

Harrison: It's entirely possible that Sauron may be doing exactly that.

Thing is, without any context/form on this kind of conversation, posting that kind of thing is at best rather ill-advised.

How are people who don't know S, and don't have any context for him meant to guess that he's performing, as I suggested above, hilarious satire, without a bit of explanation.

So, either dumbly offensive, or just dumb.

14:36 / 24.06.06

Charming, Sauron. Mistoffeelaces, as Xoc says, sorry you have to put up with that shit.

ANYhoo... I think I have a slightly different perspective than many of you folk enduring the WC. In the U.S., as most of us don't pay much attention to soccer, I hardly even know the World Cup existed. The only times it's ever registered, prior to moving to the U.K., is the first time I went to Europe in 1990 and it was going on, and when the World Cup was in the states in 1994. But even then I didn't learn about the WC from the news or anything - a friend of mine was working as a waitress at a cafe in downtown Chicago and I remember her telling me about all the foreigners coming in because of the World Cup.

So I've kind of experienced this world cup with an anthropological fascination, something along the lines of "Wow! People really get into it, don't they?" And working at a language school with a variety of international students (a sizeable proportion of them Brazilian), everybody at work has gone mental over football as well!

So, to me, it has been kind of nice, watching my students get so excited over the country's team, and lots of my colleagues are super into it as well.. The fanfare, the international flavor, yadadya... I've gone out and watched a few games with friends from work. But every time I'm out at an evening match I think "I'm missing Big Brother for this?"

And now I feel like I did when I watched Brazil's first game. At the beginning I was excited. I thought "maybe I'll learn something new! Maybe I'll like it!" By the end of the first half, I was bored and looking at the clock. I've had enough now, I think. Does it end soon? No wait, scratch that... does it end, EVER?

14:56 / 24.06.06

Has this site got no sense of irony?

This World Cup has been feted for its positivity.

For the first time in history Britons have invaded the fatherland in a peaceful manner. The inflamatory British media and indeed the German press (cf Bild) have been positive about the role of Brits abroad.
Indeed there were more arrests at Ascott in the last 3 days than in Germany. British scum still exists but it does not necesarily soil football matches anymore.

The World Cup is a good thing, whether you like football is irrelevant, it has become a global event that brings people together. All the negative points raised cloud the fact that away from the football the world cup has been superb for German relations around the world, and shown the country in the best possible light, indeed it is the antithesis of a 'nazi shit hole'.

I would have thought this was an obvious take out, especially as the thread had adopted a sarcastic tone.

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:13 / 24.06.06

Well, if it had been funny, that probably would have helped. But if you'd like to complain of "oversensitivity", "political correctness" or any of the other things that people often claim are making people find their jokes not funny rather than their jokes not actually being funny, there's a ready-made thread for it here.

Actually ironically, it's all kicked off a bit.

15:53 / 24.06.06

Hearing fireworks, though it´s broad daylight. Weird.

16:25 / 24.06.06

I have a feeling, in my water, that this is not going to be a good world cup for England.

Mike Owen's early bath seems ill-starred for the fortunes of the team in general, Dave Beckham is apparently a busted flush, according to the Evening Standard, and now the fans who've taken the trouble to get over there, ie the real fans, as opposed to the armchair variety are beginning to remember who they really are, and what kind of a country they actually represent.

Tabitha Tickletooth

16:34 / 24.06.06

Bit disappointed by England's off-pitch performance this year - yes, the property damage is appalling, and yes, it must be miserable if you're unfortunate enough to be anywhere near it, but watching Tony Blair having to apologise for the behaviour of some of England's more enthusiastic supporters, who are 'not representative of their country' and are 'spoiling it for everyone' is always a lot of fun - in the absence of an apology for say the war in Iraq, it would be good to watch him eat crow about this at least. As it though, the only England fans who seem to be behaving badly this year are The Wives.

So come on you grass roots supporters, where's your bulldog spirit? God knows, you can't be short of a beer or two out there ...

Still, though, and I don't wish to be *snarky*, this kind of sentiment is a bit disappointing. I can understand why people despise all things World Cup (TM) but it seems a bit counterproductive to be calling for violence so that people can have their expectations of the worst of what is a pretty diverse group of people fulfilled, and, let's not overlook, at the expense of someone getting hurt who probably doesn't deserve it.

I understand the football hating, but that seems a bit beyond. It's probably worth remembering that as in all things, not everyone who likes something you don't deserves a good kick in the head for indulging. And maybe it would be a nice and more inclusive event if nasty bastard thugs don't prevail.

I'd rather see people hating football without wishing hate on the football-enamoured. And please don't think I am glossing over the feeble attempt, I assume, at humour by Sauron - I condemn it as grotesque but think it's been rightly identified as poor and sad by others.

16:55 / 24.06.06

Has this site got no sense of irony?

Sure: black flies, Chardonnay, ten thousand spoons, etc. Nazism is a somewhat trickier subject for ironic hilarity, requiring a moderately fine-tuned comedic sensibility in order to avoid looking like crass turdiness. I'm afraid I don't think you carried it off, and even blaming the observer isn't going to save the JOKE!!1!1!

17:21 / 24.06.06

Thinking it's funny or not is a moot point.

I have no interest in saving the joke, I just felt it was fairly obviously not a serious view point.

17:27 / 24.06.06

FYI, Wasn't obvious to me, and I practically invented irony, although I don't like to brag.

17:30 / 24.06.06

I can understand why people despise all things World Cup (TM) but it seems a bit counterproductive to be calling for violence so that people can have their expectations of the worst of what is a pretty diverse group of people fulfilled, and, let's not overlook, at the expense of someone getting hurt who probably doesn't deserve it.

Well agreed of course, TT, but (you can trust me on this)it's not as if I'm out there, supporting the lads. What the likes of me think about the football is going to make no difference whatsoever to the outcome, finally, off-pitch or on. If I call for England fans to rise up and go crazy, it is going to be a call that nobody's really listening to. Essentially, it'd be like a dog having an argument with a television.

ONLY NICE THINGS

17:36 / 24.06.06

Thinking it's funny or not is a moot point.

A moot point, for those who don't know, into which group for our purposes I think we can put Sauron, is a point of discussion which has only hypothetical importance and no practical relevance. Obviously, this is not exactly a moot point, since many things that would otherwise be offensive are saved by being funny - Chris Morris has made a bit of a career of walking that line.

In this case, whether or not you actually think Germans are nazis is actually a moot point, Sauron. What is relevant is that there does not seem to be a good enough argument for that sort of attention-seeking look-at-my-willy-mummy proclamation to be made. Now, you're not going to concede that point, and your sentences are just going to get shorter and shorter, so it might be best just to leave it and try to exercise better judgement in future.

Tabitha Tickletooth

17:47 / 24.06.06

Essentially, it'd be like a dog having an argument with a television.

Which I fully support as a programming initiative and would like to see you champion, Gran. Can there be any nation in the world which would not pit its dogs, and its televisions, against each other in this gruly global competition? What country, class, creed, nay religion, couldn't take part in that? It would bring the world together and settle our differences in a new way. Dogs and tvs of the world unite - my money's on Sheena for England and the Sharp 26" Bravia for Japan in the final. Let them Cup commence...

18:15 / 24.06.06

Put the Bravia in goal and you'll be surprised. Sheena's better at tackling though.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:07 / 24.06.06

Dear God no... the television's about the only electrical item in the house she HASN'T had an argument with yet (especially since- I shit you not- she learned how to open doors USING THE HANDLE)... maybe after Big Brother and Doctor Who have both finished, eh?

20:04 / 24.06.06

(especially since- I shit you not- she learned how to open doors USING THE HANDLE)

Sam Neill had the very same problem.

20:08 / 24.06.06

she learned how to open doors USING THE HANDLE

C'mon Stoatie, you're not telling me you'd prefer her to go back to tunnelling her way underneath with her JCB. The noise! The dust! The little doggie builder's bum!

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

20:18 / 24.06.06

C'mon Stoatie, you're not telling me you'd prefer her to go back to tunnelling her way underneath with her JCB.

See, when she was doing that I always had the prospect of That's Life returning to our screens, and my subsequent fame and cash.

Apart from anything else, I have a kitchen full of rude-shaped vegetables, and NOBODY WANTS TO KNOW. Life is so unfair.

09:28 / 25.06.06

Now that the world cup has reached its knock-out stages there exists the very real possibility that extratime and penalties might impinge on Dr Who's two part season finale...

10:24 / 25.06.06

How very dare they!

11:50 / 25.06.06

The strangest thing happened Saturday morning. It all disappeared! Friday night: Every commerical was World Cup related, everyone in the street was wearing devil horns and red t-shirts. Every store had World Cup stuff for sale.

...suddenly by 10am Saturday morning it was all gone! No one mentions that it even happened! TV is back to normal! All it took was for Switzerland to beat them horribly at 4am that day... Woo!

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

12:12 / 25.06.06

You know, I thought that was a Doctor Who joke at first...

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

23:08 / 25.06.06

I know Flyboy's pointed out in the ACTUAL World Cup thread that football being unavoidable is a fiction...

...but speaking from personal experience (and I can only really speak from personal experience) in my line of work, football IS unavoidable. It's as unavoidable as Doctor Who spoilers. Especially when all the people in the office who actually WANT to deal with this shit have taken holiday. To go to Germany to watch the football.

Well, that and the fact that pretty much every time I walk my dog (because if you're walking a dog, you're the obvious target for strangers who want to talk to someone), some fucker wants to come up to me- completely out of the blue- to talk to me about the fucking thing. (Or when I go into a shop to buy beer, or dog food, or books, or comics, or CDs, or FUCKING ANYTHING!!!). Though I believe that's already been mentioned.

So, that's my work time and my leisure time sewn up, then. Oh, apart from the bit of my leisure time I decide to use socialising. And MOST OF MY FRIENDS WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT. (That said, it's not a particularly World Cup thing, that... they do it all the time).

Thanks, football. Thanks LOADS.

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:14 / 25.06.06

I walk my dog (because if you're walking a dog, you're the obvious target for strangers who want to talk to someone), some fucker wants to come up to me- completely out of the blue- to talk to me about the fucking thing.

Sorry, help me out here. You're asking how dare people make polite conversation?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

23:20 / 25.06.06

No. It hasn't yet been polite once. I mean, I love my swearing, but I don't tend to ty it out on strangers. Dog walker = sweary drunk magnet.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

23:23 / 25.06.06

Apart from that, though, the point I was making is that, in my experience, "football = unavoidable" is not a fiction. WHETHER that's a bad thing or not, I guess, is up to the discretion of the individual.

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:23 / 25.06.06

Ah, I see. So, does this only happen during the World Cup, or generally? And when not during the World Cup, is it generally about football regardless?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

23:25 / 25.06.06

See my second post. Though it steps up a notch during the WC. (Not when I'm actually weeing, though... that would be beyond the realms of politeness for sure).

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

23:27 / 25.06.06

when not during the World Cup, is it generally about football regardless

I live in the border between Arsenal territory and Tottenham territory. Of course it's usually about football.

07:40 / 26.06.06

A moot point, for those who don't know, into which group for our purposes I think we can put Sauron, is a point of discussion which has only hypothetical importance and no practical relevance. Obviously, this is not exactly a moot point, since many things that would otherwise be offensive are saved by being funny - Chris Morris has made a bit of a career of walking that line.

However if he walked that line on Barbelith you'd be up in arms I'd imagine.

07:58 / 26.06.06

I know Flyboy's pointed out in the ACTUAL World Cup thread that football being unavoidable is a fiction...

He's entitled to his entirely wrong opinion, I guess. Agreeing with you 100%, Stoatie. Went to a film while the match was on yesterday. I knew the match was on because this information is impossible to avoid. Hence, took evasive action.

Gangs of shirtless youths with flags running about in Leicester Square, shouting the usual tuneless Enger-land! as I was going to the cinema. But by this time the match was on. So, they were doing their football supporting in some zen way that skipped the watching of the match altogether.

I'll never get the hang of the soccer thing.

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:12 / 26.06.06

However if he walked that line on Barbelith you'd be up in arms I'd imagine.

Well, if a) Chris Morris arrives on Barbelith or b) you or Sauron start being as funny as Chris Morris, we'll see how to cope with either eventuality. The first is more likely than the second, I think, but as I say, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

08:18 / 26.06.06

Well the first has already happened but I'll brush up on the second for you, although you seem like more of a Last Of The Summer Wine man than A Jam fan.

Anyway back to The World Cup...What's pissing me off about it so far is Englands bloody average performance, they must try harder!

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:44 / 26.06.06

Sorry. To clarify, by (a) I meant "Chris Morris becomes a regular poster to Barbelith" rather than "people who believe that by attempting to annoy people in a style that they believe to be comparable to that of Chris Morris they can secure a role as his spiritual successor and, should they meet, best mate post regularly to Barbelith".

Oddly, although I did find myself confronted with the horror of the urinal goalposts last night, and they were indeed a bit much, I'm finding it quite hard _to_ keep track of the football. On Saturday, I missed the matches - the first through simply having other stuff to do, the second because I was out at a party where nobody particularly wanted to watch or talk about football, apart from some brief score-updating by people who had seen a snippet of the match through a pub window on the way to the flat. I did see the England game, but that was my choice, and the first half of Holland-Portugal, but I could have gone to the other room of the NHAC and watched the band instead. So, yeah.

I could certainly do without the actions of people who _don't_ want to watch the football, Xoc, though, and sympathise entirely with your feelings about the fellows in Trafalgar Square. In fact, given that there must have been about a hundred places within half a mile of them showing the match, I imagine that they were trying as hard to avoid watching it as you were. I find myself just about every tournamnet wondering whether I can in good conscience be interested in football when such a bunch of utter wankers profess the same interest, and I agree entirely that the behaviour of many football fans is profoundly offputting, although I'm inclined to blame beer for that rather than foootball per se.

08:46 / 26.06.06

Is this evidence that people who don't like the game have now launched a guerrilla campaign against football fans?

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