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Big Brother 2006

 
  

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Tryphena Absent
12:31 / 24.07.06
The opportunity to rid myself of Spiral and Michael in one beautiful swoop is too good. Pliz, pliz let them be up for eviction.
 
 
haus of fraser
13:07 / 24.07.06
Hm. I'm not sure how workable that is. I mean isn't that discussing nominations. Where did you get that from Flyboy?

Its on Channel 4 Website nominations will happen as pairs- however housemates are not aware they are also nominating their best buddies so richard will probably be up- but should be safe- interesting as to who will be evicted? Will imogen get to vote dicky while best buddys with suzy?

My Predictions-
Spoiral and Michael vote- Dicky and Suzy
Dicky and Pete vote- Michael and Imogen
Suzy and Imogen vote- spoiral and michael/ dicky unsure of this one?
Glynn and Mikey- Dicky and Suzy
Aislyne and Jennie- Dicky and Suzy

so by that reckoning we'll see Imogen and suzy, Dicky and pete and spiral and Michael up this week- Imogen and suzy would probably get my vote cos they add nothing but boredom to the house....
 
 
Jub
13:17 / 24.07.06
CB - if they're not aware they're nominating the best buddies why are your predicitons for the couples? I'm a bit confused.
 
 
sleazenation
13:39 / 24.07.06
Jub - i think the idea is tat the housmates will get the same two nominations that they always get - what they won't be aware of is that it will be both the person they nominate and that person's best budy that will be put up for eviction...
 
 
Alex's Grandma
13:42 / 24.07.06
Not so sure if being paired with Pete's any guarantee of Richard's safety on Friday - according to yesterday's Star (I only read it for the pictures, honest,) the bookies will be 'jamming the phone lines' in an attempt to get rid of Pete, such is the amount of cash they apparently stand to lose if the houewife's choice walks away with the prize.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
17:38 / 24.07.06
For anyone who missed it last night: Pete's song for Dickie. Highlights include: Imogen's terrible, clueless dancing, and Spiral's face falling as he thinks "I'm never going to write a song this good in life" and "Pete's sexual ambiguity is freaking my head out".
 
 
Ganesh
19:00 / 24.07.06
But I'm curious— do you think this prodding is coming from the same place in Richard as his general efforts to "help" various people have been? If that's even a question that makes sense?

Yes and no. I do think at least part of Dickie's prodding stems from a sort of therapy-lite instinct: he's aware that there's a problem; he's aware that ignoring it isn't the way to go; he's eager to push people to address their problems because he sincerely thinks they'll be helped and because Dickie feels good when he (believes he) has helped people. As I say, I think this is his major way of coping with dependency needs of his own.

I also think that, particularly latterly, there's an element of michief - possibly even spite - involved. Michael needs to have his boundaries pushed where campness is concerned (his own and other people's) if he's to overcome his fear of it and the attached introjected hatred of his own homosexuality - and hey, while those boundaries are being pushed, it's fun to watch him squirm, innit?
 
 
Mourne Kransky
19:09 / 24.07.06
Copey's prescient Brick was on the money: Imogen & Susie, Michael & Spiral and Pete & Richard are the pairs up for eviction this week.
 
 
Ganesh
19:28 / 24.07.06
I'm not sure about this, really. I see your point (that her attitude is unfortunate, and that you probably feel uncomfortable and unhappy about her discomfort?) but would you want to cause a family member discomfort, unless you thought it served a more important purpose (making her more comfortable with gayness, or challenging her boundaries... is she likely to feel more OK about male/male intimacy because of your teasing, or might she wall up and become defensive/antagonistic about it?)

The point isn't really whether I'd want to cause someone discomfort or whether crossing their stated boundaries were motivated by something "important". My point is: should a stated boundary automatically be respected to the extent that someone not respecting that boundary (and causing any degree of discomfort) is "nasty"? My contention is that no, I don't think that simply because someone says, "this is my boundary; don't cross it" their statement is necessarily reasonable or worthy of respect. If I felt uncomfortable with mention of interracial unions, for example, and asked my sister to avoid mentioning her non-Caucasian husband in my presence, would this request be inherently reasonable and worthy of respect? If my sister ignored it (and her jokes caused me discomfort?), would my subsequent discomfort make her a "nasty" person?

It is a fair argument that if a straight person makes it clear to a gay one (or perhaps to anyone who doesn't share their views) that they feel uncomfortable with male/male intimacy, they're making the second person feel uncomfortable in turn, and so perhaps deserve the same treatment. As I suggested in the previous para, I don't know this response is likely to sway their attitudes, but I can see how it would seem justified.

And I don't think it's incumbent upon the party requested to observe boundaries to cross those boundaries only for "important" reasons - and I don't think it's anyone's responsibility to 'sway attitudes'. I'm merely throwing out the possibility that some don't-cross-this-line-please boundaries are not reasonable, and not worthy of respect.

Challenging homophobia in a teasing way is one thing, though, but as I think I noted, I would get bored and/or uncomfortable with someone making sexual remarks all the time, whether that person was male or female, straight or gay. If they thought it was their remit to keep pushing my boundaries and crossing my lines, after I'd made it clear where those lines were, I wouldn't appreciate it. Maybe me explaining that I wasn't happy with constant sexual banter would constitute oppressing or trying to contain and repress them, in a way, but obviously if I were in that situation I'd be biased towards my own position.

Like I say, the other person's not necessarily in the business of attempting to change your opinion or nobly Do Good in any wider sense. The issue for me is whether your requested boundary is a reasonable one. In the example with my aunt, I wouldn't be attempting to change her mind by 'challenging homophobia' - or anything that impressive, really. I'd simply be choosing not to respect her boundary because I'd consider it an unreasonable request for her to make of me.
 
 
Ganesh
19:44 / 24.07.06
I'm familiar with that, but what I meant here was that Richard seems to see his interactions as some kind of grand catfight, all razzle-dazzle, a glitzy theatrical spectacle for an audience to relish, rather than a balding guy in a vest lying on a grubby bed in a messy dorm-room, arguing with a starey lunatic who's doing handstands and stroking a stuffed cat.

And I say again that this does not mark Richard out as especially unusual among gay men with even a modicum of campery, particularly when describing disputes with other gay men. Presumably the historical roots of this particular mode of description are twisted up in the need to inject an element of glamour into lives that were (and not infrequently are) as grotty as your balding/vest/lunatic schtick suggests - plus occasionally dangerous and, in days of yore, criminal. I suspect there's also a more prosaic aspect of emphasising the absurdity of serious conflict, which is arguably a useful one: one may hear a lot of "razzle-dazzle" catfighting talk in gay venues, but the incidence of actual violence is vanishingly low compared with that of straight pubs and clubs.

Go, as they say, figure.
 
 
Ganesh
19:53 / 24.07.06
The opportunity to rid myself of Spiral and Michael in one beautiful swoop is too good. Pliz, pliz let them be up for eviction.

I'm torn; I think I'd prefer, on balance, to have Imogen and Susie gone. We're supposed to vote for who we don't want out, though, so presumably the Saint Pete voting bloc will carry it.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
19:58 / 24.07.06
My contention is that no, I don't think that simply because someone says, "this is my boundary; don't cross it" their statement is necessarily reasonable or worthy of respect. If I felt uncomfortable with mention of interracial unions, for example, and asked my sister to avoid mentioning her non-Caucasian husband in my presence, would this request be inherently reasonable and worthy of respect? If my sister ignored it (and her jokes caused me discomfort?), would my subsequent discomfort make her a "nasty" person?

I honestly wonder if there's any right or wrong to this. Families are such complex systems, and the relationships that sustain them often so dependent on years of compromise, give and take, making efforts and biting tongues, that it's hard to judge what you would or should do with your sister. You might have a Christian aunt who didn't like the use of "God" as an expletive, and you might respect that just because it's not worth the fight to explain why to you as an atheist, "God" is not a word that deserves special treatment; or you might like her enough to make that sacrifice, or you might just think if you're in someone's house you should respect their rules whether you identify with and agree with them or not. You might even have a grandfather who referred to "the coloureds" and you might let that fly, because of who he is to you, and because it's not worth causing a scene or upsetting your grandma by arguing about it.


"Reasonable" and "worthy of respect" are clearly moveable standards, so I'm not sure if we can say that some comfort zones, on an absolute level, should be credited (eg. if a gay man doesn't want to be called "she") and some should not (eg. if an uncle wants to pretend that you're not gay, just a perma-bachelor). I know I would draw a line that distinguished some people's comfort zones from others, and that I'd respect some and question others, but I'm not sure where that gets us except the notion that a "comfort zone" is not an automatic magic circle that confers unchallengeable status on the person who claims it... which is perhaps the point you were making, so... good.

Also, yes absolutely; I take your point that one doesn't have to be fighting a higher cause (challenging homophobia) to push and question someone. That was me with some naive idea that a gay man disrespecting his homophobic aunt must be engaging in the Higher Struggle!
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:02 / 24.07.06
And I say again that this does not mark Richard out as especially unusual among gay men with even a modicum of campery, particularly when describing disputes with other gay men.

OK, I didn't mean "unusual" and I shouldn't have said "odd". What I meant was I suppose that it struck me as ... ironic, given how unglam the scene actually was, that he was almost promoting it as a big cabaret spat. That there was a visual gulf between the way he represented their ongoing argument in terms of glitter, and the actual situation, which was more grot.

Probably wasn't worth all these posts though.
 
 
Shrug
21:38 / 24.07.06
Aw, I'm loving the friends task. Some excellent moments, not even exclusive to the Richard and Pete squee-ery.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:52 / 24.07.06
"Cameron Diaz - Justin Timberlake. I'm just sayin'."

"She keeps puttin' her loaf in me face, and I know she wants me to sloice it, and I know she'd come back for another sloice of Spiral..."

Spiral's journey continues apace.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
23:26 / 24.07.06
I'm beginning to increasingly not like Pete.

He tinks he's so fockin' clever right, by turning Spoiral's image into something that that gay bloke masturbates over - don't get me wrong, I've no problem wit tem, I just think the lot a dem should fock of to a monastery, y'know, rather dan imploding their sexuality - whatever the fock that means - in everyone's face.

Everyone in that house is so fockin negative, y'know? All the time.

And Pete is the worst fockin culprit - he's not a rapper, he's a wanker, d'you know what I'm saying?
 
 
haus of fraser
08:19 / 25.07.06
So do we think its the end of Imogen & Suzy- cos spoiral is surely gonna have fans that'll vote to keep him in 'specially if he keeps on churning out good telly like he did last night (see Flyboys quote) - and dickie and pete should have a solid fanbase - so we ditch some of the chaff that normally gets under the radar.

A sensible move maybe- possibly a cynical one after the above mentioned Star reporting and a desperate attempt to keep things more interesting- cos we do like to kick out the stirrers...
 
 
Jub
08:57 / 25.07.06
I think you're right though CB, it will be Susie and Imogen, if nothing else because of the ay the voting is this week - ie voting to stay in rather than boot out.
 
 
Ganesh
13:48 / 25.07.06
I honestly wonder if there's any right or wrong to this. Families are such complex systems, and the relationships that sustain them often so dependent on years of compromise, give and take, making efforts and biting tongues, that it's hard to judge what you would or should do with your sister. You might have a Christian aunt who didn't like the use of "God" as an expletive, and you might respect that just because it's not worth the fight to explain why to you as an atheist, "God" is not a word that deserves special treatment; or you might like her enough to make that sacrifice, or you might just think if you're in someone's house you should respect their rules whether you identify with and agree with them or not. You might even have a grandfather who referred to "the coloureds" and you might let that fly, because of who he is to you, and because it's not worth causing a scene or upsetting your grandma by arguing about it.

All of which is somewhat peripheral to the Dickie/Mikey thing, except in that it illustrates the point I'm attempting to make: that when someone says "this is my boundary, don't overstep it", there are a whole host of factors at play. The boundary may not be a reasonable one (or may not be reasonable coming from that person), therefore the individual choosing not to respect it is not necessarily at fault ("nasty").

"Reasonable" and "worthy of respect" are clearly moveable standards, so I'm not sure if we can say that some comfort zones, on an absolute level, should be credited (eg. if a gay man doesn't want to be called "she") and some should not (eg. if an uncle wants to pretend that you're not gay, just a perma-bachelor). I know I would draw a line that distinguished some people's comfort zones from others, and that I'd respect some and question others, but I'm not sure where that gets us except the notion that a "comfort zone" is not an automatic magic circle that confers unchallengeable status on the person who claims it... which is perhaps the point you were making, so... good.

Yes, that's the point I was making.
 
 
Ganesh
13:58 / 25.07.06
OK, I didn't mean "unusual" and I shouldn't have said "odd". What I meant was I suppose that it struck me as ... ironic, given how unglam the scene actually was, that he was almost promoting it as a big cabaret spat. That there was a visual gulf between the way he represented their ongoing argument in terms of glitter, and the actual situation, which was more grot.

Well, yeah. Like I say, the tendency of numbers of gay males to communicate in this heightened, stylised grot-to-glamour way can be traced wayyy back to polari and probably beyond. If I were more on the ball than I am, I expect I could quote something meaty from Sontag on how the grot/glamour gulf is one of the main ingredients of camp itself.
 
 
penitentvandal
19:18 / 25.07.06
Spoiral tinks he's an MC
but oi'd rather have VD
than listen to one of his songs;

he tinks he's a DJ,
he got decks from eBay,
but his mixes are useless and wrong;

and I don't say 'wrong'
like some people say 'ill'
to indicate sumtin' is great;

I mean he's a mong,
he's devoid of all skill,
and his antics make me quite irate.

Payce, owt.
 
 
Ganesh
19:42 / 25.07.06
Looks like Michael loves a man in uniform - especially if it's himself.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:12 / 25.07.06

"I'd shag me in this," said Michael.

"I wouldn't," replied Richard.
 
 
*
23:50 / 25.07.06
%oh that's not camp atall.%
 
 
Smoothly
20:39 / 26.07.06

Glyn and Pete.


Beavis and Butthead.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:48 / 26.07.06
Best. Task. EVER.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:50 / 26.07.06
It's got everything: Michael being a twat, perfect juxtapositions, Glynn being Pob to the power of 10, situationist symbolism (beyond the grey slab... the beach!).
 
 
Triplets
20:52 / 26.07.06
Oh my God. Tonight's so good

"Ivor Biggun? Skinback? Paul Skinback?"

Glyn, poor boy, seeing a cake for the first time in his life.

The utter happy when the housemates found the Island Hideaway. Joycore.

Michael: Yeah, I think they've been crying a few pussycat tears

*cut to Pete wearing a pineapple on his head*

SO BEST.
 
 
Triplets
20:54 / 26.07.06
And Glyn, redeems himself by going behind the bar, "and what would shir like to drink?". Class in a glass!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:04 / 26.07.06
Michael: "I think the inferior housemates have declared themselves..."

Cut to Aisleyne in a fluffy white towelling robe, smoking a massive cigar, looking more Catherine Tremell than ever.

SO BEST.

It's funny, out of each pair, my favourite housemate is in the prison...
 
 
■
21:09 / 26.07.06
It looked like a huge gathering of Norman Wisdom impersonators all going SSSSSSHHHHHHH!!!! really loud. I was waitin for Mr Grimsdale to show up.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
04:54 / 27.07.06
A personal highlight: Glyn losing his bearings in the tiny antechamber between the diary room and the house next door/prison, ricocheting around in there like a happy little pinball. Twice.
 
 
Ganesh
09:37 / 27.07.06
Still not seeing this, obviousement, but the more I read about Michael's response, in particular, the more New Age gubbins seems to have fallen away to reveal his very real delight in the trappings of power and (perceived) superiority. Scratch a hippy, as they say.

If Big Brother's tasks are increasingly twists on classic social psychology experiments, I wonder how long before Michael outgrows Zimbardo and moves on to Milgram...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
10:27 / 27.07.06
He's such a disturbing creep. Michael's behaviour reminds me of a subtle Craig (without the Antnee-ing) actually.
 
 
Ganesh
10:40 / 27.07.06
Craig was rather more into martyred masochism. Michael's a happy little sadist in New Age trappings.
 
  

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