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Big Brother 2006

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00:09 / 19.07.06

I think I know what you mean, wonderstarr, but the way I see it is that there is a difference between disliking something and objecting to something.

So, I think Richard and Spoiral are completely justified in verbally expressing both their own sexualities, and equally their bordom/repulsion/etc at those expressions from the other person. I kinda think Housemates recognise this too. Richard (and Pete) might despair of Mikey's top spec bitchisms, and Mikey (and Spoiral and Michael) might tire of Richard's entendres, but I don't think any of them feel entitled to insist they stop talking in this way. They just nominate them. Similarly, Aisleyne respected Spoiral's freedom to express his neanderthal judgement on the way she dresses.

I think it becomes a different thing entirely when arses are not merely commented on but *bitten* on, and when soapy cock meets thigh, uninvited. I think that's where Aisleyne's grievance differs from Spoikey's.

In short, I don't think either Aisleyne or Mikey are uptight, homophobic or frigid just because they find certain banter tedious and vote worthy.

00:27 / 19.07.06

I was fllicking around the channels after tonight's BB and it suddenly became clear that Jayne is a refugee from ITV's Club Reps. Possibly deported from Club Reps.

miss wonderstarr

06:01 / 19.07.06

I think it becomes a different thing entirely when arses are not merely commented on but *bitten* on, and when soapy cock meets thigh, uninvited. I think that's where Aisleyne's grievance differs from Spoikey's.

That's an important distinction. However, I felt Aisleyne was upset (with the proviso that she does seem to be turning on the tears a bit theatrically these days, cf. diary room noms on Tues "oh big brother I dunno what to do, I caaarn't") by Mikey and Spiral's comments about her thong and its effects, not just by the biting.

This is something I'm really open to having clarified if I'm missing something ~ I suppose the crux of it for me comes down to the fact that I, like others on this thread, saw Spoiral as amusingly "rabbit in the headlights" when faced with Richard's talking about his sexuality, but on the other hand could entirely sympathise with Pete and Aisleyne's discomfort about Spoiral's laddishness.

Now, of course just talking about what it's like to be gay socially is not the same as talking about what it's like to be straight and get a raging boner because a girl is wearing a certain type of bikini.

But from Mikey's report, Richard's banter had crossed into pretty crude and personal promises/threats about exactly what he wanted to do to the other lad in bed. To Richard, I'm sure this was mostly a joke to enjoy Mikey's discomfort, and perhaps Mikey didn't show that he was uneasy about it; perhaps Richard thought it was a running gag between them. But if I saw Jenny complaining that Spiral had told her he was going to climb into her bed and put his cock in her, I wouldn't be making any excuses for Spiral and it would confirm my impression that he's a horrible... well, a cock. A cock in a hat.

So I was wondering I suppose about where the line lies between justified teasing and challenging of someone's amusingly uptight attitudes towards gayness and unjustifiable crossing of someone's personal boundaries into unwanted, threatening or uncomfortable sexual comments and behaviour. Because at various points yesterday, I saw Richard's behaviour (or his reported behaviour) as both.

Just finally, interesting that Richard was also adding to the straight alphas' comments about Aisleyne's ass and deciding for her that she shouldn't wear thong bikinis.

06:50 / 19.07.06

Jayne is a refugee from ITV's Club Reps.

that Mags eh? horrid.

* * * *

I'm just a bit put out by Richard getting more votes than Jayne. Why didn't everyone nominate her? Is it a dead cert Jayne will go? Who will the main voting demographic go for? Jayne must go.

09:59 / 19.07.06

I suppose the crux of it for me comes down to the fact that I, like others on this thread, saw Spoiral as amusingly "rabbit in the headlights" when faced with Richard's talking about his sexuality, but on the other hand could entirely sympathise with Pete and Aisleyne's discomfort about Spoiral's laddishness.

Well, that’s just you (and others in this thread) though, isn’t it. Others still (and probably the majority on some other boards) would have had more sympathy with Spoikey’s discomfort with Dickie’s banter. I don’t know if there is some kind of dilemma or inconsistency here; different people find different things discomforting. Each probably thinks the other should get over it.

But if I saw Jenny complaining that Spiral had told her he was going to climb into her bed and put his cock in her, I wouldn't be making any excuses for Spiral and it would confirm my impression that he's a horrible... well, a cock.

I thiiink it’s probably easy to tacitly interpolate different emphases on those two hypotheticals though. For instance, if Richard had made that suggestion aggressively and Mikey had been genuinely threatened by it, I’d probably think he was something of a cock too. It’s just harder to imagine that being the case (and I have difficulty believing that Richard would have been as artlessly suggestive as Mikey described). I’m not sure that comparing Spoiral on Jenny with Richard on Mikey is really comparing like with like (ie. I don’t think the only significant difference between those two situations is a gay v straight thing). D’you know what I mean?

So I was wondering I suppose about where the line lies between justified teasing and challenging of someone's amusingly uptight attitudes towards gayness and unjustifiable crossing of someone's personal boundaries into unwanted, threatening or uncomfortable sexual comments and behaviour.

It’s tricky, of course, and it’s something that Housemates have to negotiate carefully all the time, taking on-board individual’s differing boundaries. But I think the line lies in the same place whether you believe you’re challenging someone’s amusingly uptight attitudes to gayness, or their amusingly uptight attitudes to straightness.

10:14 / 19.07.06

I'm just a bit put out by Richard getting more votes than Jayne. Why didn't everyone nominate her? Is it a dead cert Jayne will go? Who will the main voting demographic go for? Jayne must go.

I know, and after Nikki, anything seems possible. There's a lot of Dickie hate out there, and if the House is anything to go by, an extraordinary degree of Jayne tolerance.

So, again, a tense eviction night and, again, I'm going to miss it.
Will you text me the result, Jub?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

10:42 / 19.07.06

Yes, I'm also gonna miss it- I'm going to be in a tent somewhere. Granny, Flyboy- you've both got my number- could someone be a dear and let me know?

11:01 / 19.07.06

I'm going to be in a tent somewhere.

Me too! Who'd have thunk it.

11:17 / 19.07.06

Sure, Stoat.

Although if Jayne doesn't get the boot, it will be a sign, I think, that we're living in a very sick society, and I may have my head in a gas oven somewhere.

11:32 / 19.07.06

And the good news is that one can text Jayne votes all the way to BB from Africa. You lot have no excuse!

11:36 / 19.07.06

Richard vs Mikey's bottom: unless someone actually witnessed Richard's alleged words, I'm inclined to believe this is Mikey's fears talking rather than a direct quote. Didn't Richard say he was going to try to intimidate Mikey (ie come on very strong to him) specifically to make him cringe? To much agreeing gigglement from Susie and erm, some others? It seems to be working...

Mikey vs Aisleyne's bottom: I'm having trouble with the fuss, aside from Aisleyne's rather inexplicable distress. I fail to see how a friendly chomp in passing is any different to a friendly slap on the buttock, they're both personal space-invading mildly giggly acts... It's not as though either Mikey or Ais have been touch-me-not, they're both tactile, huggy, massagy, etc etc, and have spent several weeks together in close proximity. They appear to be entirely comfortable in each other's personal space...

Now, I can see that Ais is sensitized. The Spiral/shower incident was appallingly creepy and invasive and I completely get why she was spooked and sickened and ran for comfort. The bite thing, I really don't get. This wasn't Spiral, it wasn't an over-the-top overwhelming barrage, as far as I can tell Ais doesn't feel threatened by Mikey. I would have expected an "OI! Ow, Mikey you git! *whop*".

11:51 / 19.07.06

Miss Wonderstarr, I think that's a very interesting line of inquiry, I was thinking about it last night. I do think Mikey probably found Richard's comment about getting into bed with him pretty difficult to deal with but perhaps we give him short shrift with that feeling because he's a bit freaked out by gay people and because no-one actually saw it. I wish someone here had seen that bit of the footage and then we'd be able to more freely judge.

Apparently some people did actually see Mikey in Bumgate, so we are more able to freely opine about it.

Regrettable Juvenilia

11:52 / 19.07.06

Richard to Jayne on the live feed today: apparently he likes her because she can joke about herself, "your weight, your sex", and doesn't take herself seriously, whereas everyone else in the house, especially the girls, take themselves too seriously. Also apparently the fun he has with her is "genuine" whereas the type of fun the other housemates have is "performance for the cameras".

The man has lost it.

12:01 / 19.07.06

Will you text me the result, Jub?

no probs stevely.

12:08 / 19.07.06

Richard vs Mikey's bottom: unless someone actually witnessed Richard's alleged words, I'm inclined to believe this is Mikey's fears talking rather than a direct quote.

That's how I saw it too Peek. Mikey's comments seemed to be hyperbole of the kind of thing Richard said which made him feel uncomfortable. How much this was perceived / real is anyone's guess but I suspect Mikey feels uncomfotable with Richard's generaly comments because he has no frame of reference.

12:15 / 19.07.06

they all seem to be losing it this week - the food deprivatuin is the best cat vs. pigeons thing they've tried yet. it has turned glun into out and out twat-scum, pete into more of a bad-trousered loser than before, and made suzie soar to the top of the tree. richard is slightly being a prick even, and jayne somehow seems less vile. (she'll still go though.)

miss wonderstarr

15:29 / 19.07.06

Thanks for those replies to my wonderings.

I'm inclined to believe this is Mikey's fears talking rather than a direct quote. Didn't Richard say he was going to try to intimidate Mikey (ie come on very strong to him) specifically to make him cringe? To much agreeing gigglement from Susie and erm, some others? It seems to be working...

Um... if someone's going to try to intimidate someone, then isn't it quite reasonable (inevitable?) that the other person ends up with "fears"? Your comment above seems to suggest that Mikey would be at fault (fearful of gayness, ie. homophobic) rather than Richard, for deliberately trying to sexually intimidate and make someone else feel uncomfortable.

I know he did describe himself as a sexual terrorist, and this is perhaps one of the few times we've seen it, and it sounds like a fun persona to unleash, but in a way it seems quite a nasty thing to do to someone: being aware of their boundaries and comfort zones, and deliberately invading them.

I suppose what it comes down to is that there's a line between playful teasing and verbal harassment, and that gayness/straightness is perhaps secondary & incidental to this.

15:59 / 19.07.06

Richard to Jayne on the live feed today: apparently he likes her because she can joke about herself, "your weight, your sex", and doesn't take herself seriously, whereas everyone else in the house, especially the girls, take themselves too seriously. Also apparently the fun he has with her is "genuine" whereas the type of fun the other housemates have is "performance for the cameras".

The man has lost it.

Hurmm. Everyone else who has begun a week in nomination toto and moued words like these has been booted, almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm utterly disinclined to believe Mikey's version of events, and hope it's time for the pendulum to swing. Been impressed with the GBP's (correct) choices every week until the last one, hope they've not lost it.

16:10 / 19.07.06

William Hill's odds on Friday's eviction at the moment;

Jayne: 2/25

Richard: 6/1

I *think* this means that if you successfully put £1 on Richard to go, you'd win £6, whereas the same bet on Jayne would net you twelve and a half pence.

No reason to stop the votes pouring in of course, but things aren't looking good for the warbler from Slough.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

16:18 / 19.07.06

Two days to go and they still haven't instituted a PUNCH JAYNE number.

I shall email Ofcom.

16:25 / 19.07.06

Wonderstarr: yes, I know, I had some problems with how I wrote that as it was hard not to make Richard sound a bit nasty, and I don't think there's any cruel intent. Some housemates have suggested that Richard takes jokes a bit too far, carries them past their humour potential perhaps, and maybe that's happened here. A few teases would be just a joke, but too many get tiresome and worrying?

I don't judge Mikey for his feelings, but I don't think Richard deliberately set out to make him feel bad.

I do think he's indulging in a form of flirty teasing that works fine between people who both know there's no danger of it becoming more; maybe Mikey's lost his certainty. He hasn't struck me as particularly homophobic per se. I think that's the only way the gay/het thing is involved here, as in it ought to reassure Mikey that he's not really at risk; certainly this would be creepy and predatory if it was say, Spiral teasy-flirting with Ais past her humour tolerance. Maybe Richard thinks Mikey "knows him better than that" or something. Also, I did get the impression from Mikey that he was just a bit tired of it and thought it was off-colour, not that he was really intimidated. After all, he had to nominate someone...

At a tangent, I wonder if that's part of the deal with Spiral - he sees a group of people very comfortable with each other physically, and doesn't quite understand that that's something they've built over time that doesn't (yet) apply to him. Rather like Jayne with her instant matey-ness getting in the middle of established comfort routines.

16:30 / 19.07.06

It would only be 8p, Granny. Good news, though.

18:14 / 19.07.06

It's funny, I had a suspicion that there might be some Richard/Aisleyne tension building, if only because Richard seems to find Jayne entertaining as opposed to atrocious.

I think the tension's been there since before Aisleyne's 'eviction': she started spending more time with Imogen and Mikey, and I think Richard interpreted this as a growing apart from him.

Does Dickie really find Jayne not-atrocious-in-the-slightest or is he doing that getting-along-with-fellow-nominees thing he does? He even found good stuff to say about Lisa, in similar circumstances.

I agree the put-her-bum-away stuff sounds like a lapse, though.

18:31 / 19.07.06

Reading the Lith in internet cafes, not usually logged in, I'm intrigued by the wee Google Ads that pop up. For instance, at the head of this page are advertised Cures for Depression and for Burn Out / Stress. What are they telling us about this longevitous thread? Lots of mileage yet!

18:35 / 19.07.06

Yeah. The all-over-the-place keyboard is doing my head in, though; and preventing me engaging with Wonderstarr's points as I'd like to. Later.

miss wonderstarr

18:37 / 19.07.06

I admit I was hoping you would find time to reply, Ganesh.

20:10 / 19.07.06

Yikes everyone needs to make sure they VOTE JAYNE numberous times as the AOL Poll has RICHARD out by about 6%. Vote people!!

20:54 / 19.07.06

So, let me get this straight Spiral...

It's OK to kick melons around because in the third world they grow melons so that means that people have those available to eat. But it's not OK to throw pasta, because that doesn't come from third world countries so starving people don't have that to eat. Is that how it goes?

20:56 / 19.07.06

Spiral losing two arguments quite spectacularly badly tonight was pretty funny; I had a vague 'like' feeling about Jennie before her utter PWNAGE, which shot her up in my estimation, only for it then to diminish a little when she cried and declared herself wrong latterly. She wasn't wrong, even a tiny bit.

21:27 / 19.07.06

You missed out the part about melons growing on trees...

21:36 / 19.07.06

Ha. Yeah, people in tird world countries can do without melons, they have plenty on trees, but not pasta.

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:58 / 20.07.06

Does Dickie really find Jayne not-atrocious-in-the-slightest or is he doing that getting-along-with-fellow-nominees thing he does? He even found good stuff to say about Lisa, in similar circumstances.

I'm afraid it started before they knew they were both up for eviction. (The BB website tells me that he also told Jayne "You're my sidekick" - yeeeaaarrrgghhh...) The other worrying this is that Richard has started to refer to the people he doesn't like in the house as the "nasty falsies" - it's as if framing your dislike of someone as being a reaction to their 'falseness' is a disease of the brain which infects all the housemates in the end...

Mind you, his misjudgment of Jayne pales into comparison when compared with Michael:

Michael, meanwhile, spoke of his disgust at any Jayne detractors, comparing such sentiments to those held by those who supported Hitler or who "crucified Jesus Christ".

10:06 / 20.07.06

Bloody Romans.

10:39 / 20.07.06

Did enjoy Jayne's reference last night to 'the double act' she has with Richard - it was pure comedy gold.

She really is a complete Brent, isn't she?

10:55 / 20.07.06

Yes she really is. Do you think she does it on purpose?

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