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All Star! Challenge

 
  

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Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
01:10 / 15.05.06
Actually, pulling on the whole legacy/JSA concept, I always wanted Obsidian to be the protege to the Shade, as a way of integrating the "sometimes evil" vibe and maybe even your idea about the "things that hide in the shadows"...
 
 
Mario
11:09 / 15.05.06
That could be integrated pretty smoothly. Of course, Todd would resist the whole Victorian look, but that might be enough to inspire the Shadow-style costuming.
 
 
A
12:55 / 15.05.06
I like that drawing of Ralph, but i think he should be hatless. I repeat: hatless. He's just a hatless kinda guy.
 
 
Mario
14:52 / 15.05.06
Rage is too bland a design. He looks like half of the Ultimate X-Men.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
03:57 / 17.05.06
Hey, considering the Ultimate X-generic-costume, does anyone want to take a crack and designing new costumes for the five original X-Men? Preferrably teenaged, newbie X-Men with the winsomem Kirby poses. Rules and regulations: no X logos, nothing based on the yellow/blue school uniforms, all of them individualized. When designing Marvel Girl's outfit, please stay the hell away from that monstrosity that Rachel Grey [sic] is wearing.

I just had a thought because of Rachel. If I could redo the Amalgam Comics, instead of merging the Doom Patrol with X-Force (to make the X-Patrol), I'd do some kind of Doom Patrol/Excalibur merge, because both times were so bizarre and dysfunctional. Captain Britain/Niles Caulder (for the contrast), Nightcrawler/Negative Man (striking visuals), Meggan/Beast Boy (obvious), Phoenix/Mento (I'd love to see Rachel in that silly thinking cap helmet), Shadowcat/Elasti-Girl. And yes, it occurs to me that those sounds like ridiculous slash pairings. I'd combine Robotman with Widget out of sheer weirdness, and have hir being the product of Braddock's insane sciences.

Not sure what the group's name would be, but Chief Britain (Niles Braddock) would be the patriotic former super-hero in a wheelchair, his super-mind twisted by extradimensional manipulation until he creates superhumans to aid him in his quests for justice. Kurt Wagner as a mutant with the power to teleport himself into the Negative Zone for 60 seconds at a time, while a Negative Energy duplicate flies around and solves problems. Braddock's protege Beast Girl, capable of shapeshifting at will but preferring more feral forms, highly suspectible to Braddock's will. Shadow-Girl, Rita Pryde, a former starlet whose exposure to volcanic gases released her own mutant power, the ability to become intangible...uncontrollably, of course, meaning she spends most of her time as a living ghost. Rachel Dayton escapes from a horrible future timeline ruled by the Brotherhood of Evil Dadaists using a psychic-transtemporal helmet that allows her to read thoughts and concentrate her low-level telekinesis, even as her weird addiction to the power consumes her...

So, the other challenge: what absolutely random Amalgam Comics would you come up with, given the chance? Any imprint, comic universe, et cetera.
 
 
Mario
11:11 / 17.05.06
The X-Men, huh?

Here's an offbeat street clothes-based idea, based on a cliche from Japanese animation: the 5-team.

The Leader: Scott. Usually dresses in red, a bit stiff. Square-jawed & reliable, he tends to dress in "business casual"

The Girl: Jean (duh) Traditionally dresses in pink, but I'll put her in green instead. Always fashionable.

The Other Guy: Warren. Dresses in shades of blue (save for a black leather trenchcoat to hide the wings). Mysterious, rebellious, and a hint of the bad boy.

The Big Guy: Hank. Steadfast & reliable. Dresses like a jock (which he is, just an erudite one ) in shades of yellow.

The Kid: Bobby. A bratty jokester. Dresses like a surfer duuuuude, including a collection of the most hideous Hawaiian shirts he can find.

I'll get back to you on the Tangent thing.
 
 
Aertho
12:29 / 17.05.06
They each drive color-coordinated Sentinels that merge together to form Nimrod?

Now do Defenders/Family Sitcom Formula!
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:37 / 17.05.06
Easy-Breezy!

DOCTOR STRANGE: You must come, O Avenging Son of Atlantis! Even now, there is a vast and impossible threat about to swoop down from the astral realms and into this world. We must consolidate power at once and attack as one!

NAMOR: Threat? What threat? The Avenging Son is not so easily bargained with, Strange. And you going to call in Banner, I know you, and you know I loathe that man. He calls me a Fish Man.

DOCTOR STRANGE: Well, technically...

NAMOR: Atlanteans didn't evolve from fish!

DOCTOR STRANGE: Namor, we must make haste! The possible death...

NAMOR: What's this threat, exactly?

DOCTOR STRANGE: It's, ah, it's...

NAMOR: You're just trying to round up candidates for some kind of mystical medical experiment, aren't you? Don't think I can't see you sizing up my ankle wings, you pervert.

DOCTOR STRANGE: It is not! It's, ah, Dormammu! The Dread Dormammu, scourge of the Under-Realms, rising up from the abyss to crush all mortals from this dimension and fill the Earth with his own teeming hordes...

NAMOR: It's not a therapy group, is it? Because I don't have any kind of psychological issues with Banner, I just don't like him.

DOCTOR STRANGE: I told you that there is a horrible threat to reality that must be battled, one that requires our unique talents...

NAMOR: Oh my god, it's totally a reality TV show, isn't it? Has the Sorcerer Supreme truly sold out? This doesn't have anything to do with your new girlfriend, does it? The zombie or whatever?

DOCTOR STRANGE: It's not reality TV!

NAMOR: Then why can't the Avengers deal with it?

DOCTOR STRANGE: It's reality TV.

NAMOR: I knew it. I suppose Banner's already on his way here. Who else is being forced into this little reunion? I'm not going to have Iceman oogling my royal thighs all day, am I?

DOCTOR STRANGE: Thor refused, but he gave me the Valkyrie's number, she's on her way...

NAMOR: Oh, lovely. Nordic Vagner-Remix-a-go-go. Truly this is a dark day for Atlantis's finest son...

DOCTOR STRANGE: Well, it's not like I asked the Gargoyle or Dragon Man...

NAMOR: And I refuse to work with Wolverine, so don't even ask...
 
 
Billuccho!
16:37 / 17.05.06
So, the other challenge: what absolutely random Amalgam Comics would you come up with, given the chance? Any imprint, comic universe, et cetera.

Sounds like a good idea for a new thread.

Funnily enough, I used to write Amalgam fanfiction. Nothing will beat "Strange Lantern" and "Aqua-Hulk." Or "Dormammuseid." Well. I was young.

As for the Doom Patrol, I always saw them as more of a 'Fantastic Four' than an 'X-Men.'
 
 
Mario
17:15 / 17.05.06
Nah... the Challs are the FF equivalent.

Here's the Amalgam I put together while driving to Boston.

JKA: The Justice Knights of America

Founded by the Green Magus, Alan Strange, who uses the lamp and ring of Agamotto to battle mystical menaces from the realms beyond. The members include:

Doctor Dare, aka Matt McNider, a crusading surgeon who, after being blinded by industrial waste, uses his technical skill and preternatural martial arts skills to defend the residents of Hell's Kitchen.

Doom Knight: Archaeologist Kent Spector, while on a dig in Egypt, discovers the Silver Cloak of Nabu, and becomes the moon god's avatar and avenger. Little did he know that two more cloaks resided in a hidden chamber of the same tomb. These cloaks were later stolen, and ended up in the hands of...

Rook & Cygnet: Tyrone Hall & Shayera Bowen, who as runaways were kidnapped by priests of Sutekh, and used in an attack on the Knight. The attempt failed, but the cloaks of Anubis & Horus were bound to their bodies. The cloak of Anubis allows Ty the ability to inspire fear, while that of Horus inspires hope.

Verdict: After his family was slain by mobsters, chemist Rex Castle developed a synthetic compund called Vendetto, which gives him increased strength, speed, and durability for one hour, which he calls his "Hour of Judgement"

Shang-Lei (literally "Rising Thunder") a chinese martial artist who is the host of the thunder god Lei Kung.

Tarantula: Natasha Garikova, former KGB assassin who, after being exposed to experimental chemicals, gained the ability to move at superhuman speeds.

They are periodically aided by Panther, aka T'Challa Grant, the half-American heir to the throne of Wakanda.
 
 
Triplets
20:39 / 17.05.06
Sounds like a good idea for a new thread.

Yuss. I have loads sitting round on a hdrive that time forgot. Loved Amalgam, it was so "what you'd do as a kid"; smash two heroes together, which makes them twice as good!11.

More later.
 
 
Mario
11:27 / 24.05.06
In honor of the new teaser trailer, I give you your next All-Star makeover

All-Star Ghost Rider.

As usual, I'll give my own interpretation in a short while.
 
 
A
14:10 / 24.05.06
All Star Ghost Rider should actually ride around on a ghost.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:46 / 24.05.06
"But actually, Ghost Rider was that circus performer glimpsed briefly in cameo in the second scene ALL ALONG!"

The ghost that he rides should be your classic SPOOOOOKY sheet ghost.
 
 
Aertho
15:23 / 24.05.06
Is there any chance we could have an All-Star Carnivále featuring Nightcrawler, Ghost Rider, Barda and Scott, Nightwing, and any other circus performer hero in the comicverse?

Like how Nightcrawler's uncle turns out to be Zarathos, and Scott Free and Barda Boom Tube the team to Animal Man's Limbo, where they need Dick Grayson to show them around - he's "old enough" to remember all the weird heroes they encounter.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:28 / 24.05.06
Deadman was an acrobat. He & Ghost Rider open a Circus of the Damned.
 
 
grant
16:19 / 25.05.06
Make Ghost Rider an undead Vanilla Ice: Robbie Van Winkie was a BMX star before the unfortunate rap career.

"I thought I could be somebody. I thought I was cool." Sound of revving engine....
 
 
Mario
21:13 / 25.05.06
OK, here's my take, with bits and pieces of various interpretations.

As all good Christians know, Hell is a place of punishment, where damned souls suffer for their deeds in life. Periodically, however, a soul is skilled enough, smart enough, or just plain lucky enough to escape. And this is something the Devil cannot allow.

And so, he periodically chooses a mortal to act as his spirit of vengeance, riding out into the night to bring these escapees back to his infernal mercies. Over the years, many have been so chosen.

  • In medieval England, it was Herne the Hunter.
  • In colonial America, it was a man named Noble Kale.
  • But in the American Southwest, they tell of a phantom horseman, with a flaming skull for a head, and a burning lariat that can capture flesh and spirits alike. They call him the Ghost Rider


Stunt rider Johnny Blaze had heard all the stories, sitting around the campfire of his family's circus. But he never paid them any credence. Then, one day he was told of his father's imminent death by cancer. That night, he rode out on his motorcycle, cursing God for taking his only family away.

Standing on a rocky bluff, he rashly proclaimed "I would ride with the Devil himself to save my father's life". And he was heard. The next day, a swarthy gentleman in a rather old-fashioned suit dropped off a letter to Johnny. Inside was a piece of parchment, with only one word written on it, in ornate script.

"Yes".

As soon as he read it, it burst into flame. That night, the transformations began.

Basically, I'd use the Ketch Rider's iconography and powers (the lariat is now the chain) but the Blaze origin. Except, rather than being an uncontrollable demon, the Rider has a particular purpose. It's just not a very _nice_ purpose, especially since he isn't that worried about harming sinners.

I'd keep the penance stare too, but it's more like a side effect. Staring into his eyes gives a person a taste of hell, in proportion to the guilt on his soul. GR uses it to find spirits who are hiding in mortal bodies.

Gimme a couple of days, and I'll work out a rough outline of stories.
 
 
Aertho
13:26 / 15.06.06
All-Star Solipsism

One universe. Possible alternate reality, but one comicverse. Populate it with whomever you wish, from any line of books. Amalgams allowed, icons encouraged, think cross-spectrum and grand. Build a quick easy history, and the "big team" of that world.

Examples of this include Daiman Hellstrom Spawn on a motorcycle being part of the Avengers, alongside Batman, Ultimate Captain America, and Grace/Stacia Promethea, and Ma Hunkle.

Not the greatest example, but you get the picture. Tell me who your favorite characters are, or who they should be.
 
 
Mario
14:49 / 15.06.06
You don't make it easy, do you...

*starts thinking*

The really tricky part is not turning it into the Wold Newton universe.

But here's something to play with:

The Justice Society of America:

Dr. Clark Savage
Steven Rogers
James Buchanan Barnes
Flash Gordon
Kent Allard (aka Lamont Cranston)
Christopher Walker.
And Princess Hippolyta of Themiscira
 
 
Aertho
15:15 / 15.06.06
Wold Newton is exactly what I'm talking about. Now mix that up with the Houseboat on the Styx ... from the Bleed.

Have fun.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:33 / 15.06.06
Think JLUnlimited of the Insane: The Doom Patrol, This Man's Army of the Weird and Bugfuck Crazy...

Crazy Jane.
Detective Chimp.
Nightcrawler.
Valda the Iron Maiden.
Ragman.
Black Orchid.
John Constantine (played somewhere south of the Unknown Soldier, in an army jacket - keeps going AWOL).
Jackie Phantom.
Bouncing Boy.
Caesar "Hyperdog" Kemlo.
Rebis.
Gertrude & Old Lace.
Hulkling ("Every other day I find out I'm some other kind of alien...")
The Question.
Ultra the Multi-Alien.
Alix "The Bulleteer" Harrower.
Cobweb & Clarice.
Beast Boy.
Shadowcat (during her "I can't stay solid" period)
Metamorpho the Element Man.
Dame Ystin & Vanguard.
Frankenstein.

All overseen by Doctor Niles Caulder and his chief lieutenant, Cliff "Drill Sergeant of the Damned" Steele. Think Morrison's Doom Patrol mixed with Weird War Tales.
 
 
Mario
15:35 / 15.06.06
The problem is, Wold Newton already has almost everyone.

I don't think I'd use Amalgams, tho. I'd be more interested in seeing how characters from different universes would mesh. I'd probably focus on the little things, rather than huge concepts.

It'd be amusing, for example, if Hawkeye was trained by the Golden Age Green Arrow, but doesn't get along with his son (Oliver Jr, aka Green Arrow II).

Or if STAR Labs started out as Stark Labs.

Or if Hank Pym and Ray Palmer were lab partners.

See what I mean?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:41 / 15.06.06
Mario: Or if Hank Pym and Ray Palmer were lab partners.

Ah, but they were! In the Waid/Wieringo Spider-Boy amalgam. Hank tells Ray that "The Future's in Macro, not Micro!" I actually loved that Spider-Boy comic and wished there had been more of them.
 
 
Mario
15:49 / 15.06.06
I was thinking more "back in college". Subtle connections that express themselves in new situations.

For example, in my world, the Suicide Squad would be a black ops project run by SHIELD, and include folks like Bullseye and Chameleon.
 
 
Aertho
16:04 / 15.06.06
Well yeah. Wold Newton means Supreme, Icon, Supermen, Hyperion, Sentry, etc all exist together. I say nah. But maybe you might like that. Obviously you can't have EVERYONE, so who do you pick?

Fer instance, Green Lanterns are powered by a derivative of the Phoenix Force. The Amazons are refugees living in the Garden of Ancestral Memory. The Green Arrow replaces the Red Cross. The Pantheons had a serious Crisis of the Gods in 1985, Thor was a featured player, and a truce was settled in Billy Batson's imagination. Dick Grayson becomes Spiderman. Krypton, Rann, Thanagar, Colu, Skrullos, Hala, Tamaran, and other planets orbit stars in the Upperverse, near Tiferet.
 
 
Mario
16:29 / 15.06.06
I think the secret it to set your premises, and then just run with it. Wold Newton started with a single core idea (the meteor impacting several families) and grew organically from there.

While I'd probably use a different concept as trigger, the idea is sound. For example... the Super-Soldier serum was developed by Doc Savage, based on the notes of a beekeeper from Sussex. The Silver Age was triggered by first contact with the planet Thanagar. And so on.
 
 
Aertho
16:55 / 15.06.06
Oh. I misunderstood Wold Newton. I thought it was merely the premise that all fictionverses overlapped in one.
 
 
grant
18:35 / 15.06.06
All of a sudden, I just had an image of Reed Richards, Plastic Man, the Elongated Man and Elasti-Girl (the Incredibles) all being projections or emanations of one amorphous, multi-personalitied being. Possibly living in a vat.

I suppose you could follow the same premise and have all invisible characters flipping into one another/reappearing as each other (along with that one magic woman/man team character). Sue Storm disappears and reappears as, I dunno, whoever else. (Can Martian Manhunter go invisible? He'd be a fun one.) Nightcrawler bamfs into Violet from the Incredibles.

The idea that they're not amalgamated, but somehow each one being that appears as different characters at different times.

Shazam who (magic word!) turns into Thor who (walking stick!) turns into Superman who (phone booth!) turns into the Incredible Hulk.

That's three characters: a liquidy one, an invisible/reappearing one, and a strong one.
 
 
Mario
18:35 / 15.06.06
Not exactly. The core concept is derived from 2 fictional biographys (of Tarzan & Doc Savage) by Phillip Jose Farmer, where he posits that many of the heroes of fiction are descendants of a group of folks who were present at a meteorite impact in the town of Wold Newton.

The family trees have been extended since, but it's not an automatic thing. Every addition has to be made to "fit" according to various criteria. Names, histories, and abilities can all be modified, as one of the premises is that their appearnces in movies, TV, books, and comics are fictional accounts of real events.

For example, they posit that various fictional characters named "Gordon" are related, such as the first "Flash" Gordon (many stories associated with him are of his descendants), Bruce Gordon (a solar researcher), "Scar" Gordon (see Glory Road), and (naturally) a lawman named James Gordon.
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:26 / 15.06.06
hmmmm along those same line what would the family tree look like if it started with Davey Jones (some 17th century Pirate) and ended with detective John Jones who's identity was adopted by J'onn J'onnz?

or others.
 
 
Aertho
21:32 / 15.06.06
Well for one thing, it would ruing the whole Martian Manhunter's loneliness schtick. He'd be adventuring with his adopted cousin Jessica and going to Vegas shows to see his Uncle Tom.
 
 
Mario
21:44 / 15.06.06
I don't know of a tree linking those particular gentlemen, but there are a group of Joneses in the tree, descended from a Shirley Jones (nee Holmes) who's brother was well known in detective circles.

Some of these descendants include Henry Jones Sr (and his more famous son), and detectives Barnaby, Fredrick & Jupiter Jones. Frederick was fond of orange ascots.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
02:50 / 13.07.06
Starting here, there's been some discussion of the second Black Widow and how poorly she was handled. Okay, so what would you do to make her better? How would you go about writing a Black Widow comic?

I'd probably start off with the idea that she's a legacy spy. This is different from a legacy super-hero, and primarily because it reinforces that she can be replaced. Either because she defects, goes into hiding, or dies. She's essentially expendable and she's constantly going over what went wrong with Natasha Romanov - poring over the government files, S.H.I.E.L.D. documents, stolen Avengers data, anything to demonstrate what Natasha's weaknesses were so that she can properly extrapolate her own and more importantly avoid mistakes. I'd probably play this as her primary internal struggle.

That said, Yelena's actually very good at her job; she's extremely well-trained and probably has some enhancements (along the lines of the Ultimate Black Widow, maybe). If I was to somehow use the misused "she's a woman" fallibility angle it would be once, and it would be her reacting improperly/uncontrollably and being worried that she's falling in love with Nick Fury. Only it would actually be a Life Model Decoy commandeered by an enemy and reworked to give off ultra-pheromones in the vein of the Livewires' Social Butterfly - the whole incident proving to be a bit of the mind control, to give Yelena something to work against as a potential weakness she might see in herself. The truth would be that this would be an isolated incident, Yelena is fairly good at compartmentalizing and she'd struggle to improve her capacity to seperate herself from the pack of humanity on the grounds that she has to be an extremely good black ops agent.

Note that I'd want to do everything in my power to avoid the Abrams Alias comparison.

Maybe I'd pull in the last remaining Livewire, Stem Cell, as a sidekick or apprentice. Other than the LMD incident, Yelena has only occasional contact with the real Nick Fury, and he treats her with detachment on the grounds that she isn't Natasha, and she treats him with the air of somebody far too old for their job - she reasons that his dependence on the Infinity Formula is a major weak point. I'd try to give some inkling of what she wants to do after she's retired, although of course she doesn't believe she can just walk away, on the grounds that spies just tend to be killed and that's it.

Maybe more later. What would other people do?
 
 
Mario
11:41 / 13.07.06
The thing about Yelena is that her original concept was fine. As good or better than the original, but still loyal to her country. I think the approach I'd take is have her run a mission in the US (something fairly complicated) and have SHIELD and/or the CIA running around trying to figure out what her agenda is.

Forget about her trying to live up to the legacy. She KNOWS she's good. And if it looks like she's falling in love with a US agent, remember one important detail:

Black Widows kill their mates.

In other words, since she's a character not tied to conventional heroics, make her dangerous. It should make for some interesting plots.
 
  

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