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All Star! Challenge

 
  

Page: 123(4)5678

 
 
Mr Tricks
16:22 / 08.05.06
I agree with Mario about the loin cloth. Perhaps something can be done alon the lines of the constellation? 3 stars or dots along the waist?

The helmet you have him waring has a nice Spartan feel while the bottom left one seems the most animation friendly. What if the helmet reflected some of Darksied's appearance? Like those oldschool greek war helmets that were carved with a face on them?
 
 
Aertho
16:50 / 08.05.06
I'm wary of mixing "Orion" metaphors. This guy is more in line with Ares/Thor/Wolverine. I can sympathize with the anti-breechclothers, and I'm willing to hear suggestions, but I want to convey some sense of stereotypical hypersexualization, with males this time. If Barda is a warrior goddess in a garter belt, facepaint, opera gloves and pasties, what is Orion's corresponding sexwear? If Alix Harrower was a guy... see what I mean?

Hence the implied speedo and simplified (allover RED) costume. Here's one source of inspiration, although NSFW.

I'm partial to the big spiralling antler helmet of the top right, but I'm wondering if I can Kirby-ize it a bit more...
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:03 / 08.05.06
Well in terms of sexuality you might go with the MC Hammer pants. They stem from ancient African dieties believed to be so potent that they needed that extra room in their pants.

Here's a quickie sketech that pulls together some of my own ideas about the animal helm. blody red teath ans the pulled back ears of an angery dog.

Pluss the BIG pants this time becoming a sort of girdle as well. I would imagine them starting as the skin tight leotards that become solid and bulky at or below the pelvis. Added to that would be glowing star orbs around the waist, plus at the shoulders and knees. and the mother box right at the heart (of gold?)

Big Boots and gloves would be silvery as would the helm... very crude but here it is.
 
 
Mario
17:39 / 08.05.06
I think we're operating on different levels here. I'm not particularly interested in "hypersexualization", but in showing Orion not just as a warrior, but as War.

Hence I'd certainly put him in some sort of light armor (perhaps a Kirbytech version of a muscle cuirass) because even if he CAN survive being hit by whatever, he's smart enough to know that defending himself is tactically advantageous.

For a similar reason, while the "antler helm" makes an impact, it's impractical in combat, especially if he's grappling with a foe. Why give them something to hold onto?

If you really want to go for the "Orion as male sex symbol" route, I suggest taking a look at that recent Troy movie, especially Brad Pitt as Achilles.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
19:21 / 08.05.06
Enh. Orion is about sex as much as he's about war. The masculine warrior, the virile young god at the frontlines. He's Darkseid's son, and hence - Conquest is his other name.

Orion, after all, was a hunter.
 
 
Mario
20:09 / 08.05.06
Fertility is one thing ("When I rub my hammer, it gets bigger"), but not at the expense of his other attributes. If you really wanted to play up the Orion/Sollis relationship, I'd map it onto some mythical pairs, like Achilles/Patroclus or Hercules/Hylas. You'd still get the eroticism, without losing the character's core violence.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
21:29 / 08.05.06
Okay, I want to suggest an All-Starring project that's a wee bit different. Feel free to carry on with Orion of course.
After seeing This, the trailer for the new James Bond movie, Casino Royale, I was struck by how out of place James Bond seems nowadays- he's pretty much a byword for what writers in the Spy genre (in any medium) want to avoid (think of Matthew Bourne, Jack Bauer, Tara Chace from Queen and Country, even Solid Snake).
So, here's the scenario: You have been asked by, let's say, DC Comics, to reinvent Bond for the pages of a monthly comic, 'All-Star James Bond' (or something along those lines). Be as Postmodern or down-to-earth as you like, but bring Bond into the 21st century. Good luck 007.
 
 
Mario
21:51 / 08.05.06
I think I might have an approach that could work.

Espionage is mostly a question of gathering information. And, in this electronic age, it's become less and less necessary to send trained agents into the field, when it is simpler to utilize local sources.

But there are times when even the most civilized nation finds it necessary to deliver a particular object lesson, often at the tip of a bullet. In Japan, they used ninja. In the Caliphate, the Hashishim.

And in the United Kingdom, there is the Double-0 section. Agents so secret that they are only known by numbers. Their true names, only known to one person (codenamed M). Masters of disguise and infiltration, they are equally at home among high society as they are in the wilds of Africa.

Anyone could be a 00 agent. The newsseller on the corner. The woman in the fur coat. Even that co-worker you've known for years. The only way you'd know is when they kill you.

And the greatest 00 agent of all. Commander James Bond, formerly of the SBS. Codename: 007.
 
 
Mario
21:52 / 08.05.06
(If you want a high concept: Priest's character XER0, crossed with the Human Target)
 
 
Aertho
02:00 / 09.05.06
Ugh. This isn't working... and they'll never go for it. I'm masculinizing my platform for the Barda concept. And no one wants Conan in space. MAYBE if I had a decent linework of Ghost Rider to go off of, but bah!

I'm opening it up again. Lots of good suggestions provided already, and I'll list them presently: Metamorpho, Orion, Hawkeye, Gambit, Cyclops, Hercules, Iron Fist, Cable, Martian Manhunter, Jade and Obsidian, Red Tornado, Hawkpeople from Thanagar, Speedball, Namorita, Night Thrasher, Nova...

Both Yotsuba and Tricks said they got ideas in the kitchen, but nothing reported yet.

So let's throw a character in the ring and see what happens. Remember, I want to do something intellectual and considered in this revision, so hopefully a character that's been written about or is kind of groundbreaking or important. I was thinking of undarkening Nightwing, but it's proving fruitless. He should be DC's Spider-man, but they're writing him as NYC's sad ninja.

Now's the time. Throw in some ideas!
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
02:06 / 09.05.06
Redesign Obsidian, keeping in mind the recent developments in the direction of making him sane, emotionally secure, and capable. Not that I don't love his traditional look, but I'd like to see something else.

I really do want to find those old post-ZH JLAs with him and Nuklon on the team. I can't remember what happened to the couple issues I had...
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
03:20 / 09.05.06
Also, Obsidian is gay- see the recent issues of Manhunter, where he's playing a supporting role- initially as boyfriend of one of Kate Spencer's lawyer buddies, post-OYL as a full-fledged superhero, backing her up in a fight against Punch and Jewelee.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
03:57 / 09.05.06
Hmm.

I really want to design a Punch and Jewelee All-Star. Possibly featuring the Joker's Daughter.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
04:21 / 09.05.06
V ripoff Anarky is supposedly Joker's son.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
04:49 / 09.05.06
Wow! Anarky/Duela Dent team-up. Something for a new Brave & the Bold.
 
 
Mario
12:01 / 09.05.06
In the case of Obsidian... I wouldn't mind if they went and took his Kingdom Come outfit (the Shadow-inspired one) and used it instead. Maybe with some Sandman-inspired sleep pistols?

The great thing about it is the laugh. In the original Shadow stories, it was used mockingly, but in this case, it could have an element of "I'm having fun".

Personally, I always hated the cliched "Oh! I have darkness powers! I fear I will be corrupted by them!" bit. How come no one is ever corrupted by ice-based powers?
 
 
Aertho
12:33 / 09.05.06
Cause comic books are for kidz, and children are afraid of the dark.

So that's two votes for Obsidian? In a trenchcoat? Really?
 
 
Mario
13:05 / 09.05.06
I just like this pic of him:

 
 
Jack Denfeld
13:08 / 09.05.06
 
 
Mr Tricks
16:36 / 09.05.06
Hey Cass.

How about a Firestorm redesign. Plus, it would be neat to see an All Star Firestorm proposal.
 
 
Aertho
18:47 / 09.05.06
Why does Nightwing cry?

Is it because his "home" Blüdhaven is a horrid mess and horrid miniseries? Is it because though he's among the most recognized heroes in the world, he'll never graduate to become a full-fledge member of the prestigious JLA? Is it because his name is a generic mash of cool words, two steps from being mistaken for generic heroes like Shadowhawk?

Why does the man used to be Robin weep, alone in some scary urban landscape that reminds him, and us, of the city of his youth? Why does he, the man who used to be Robin, grow cold and tough instead of being light and jolly and representing the brightness of the world? Why does a man who used to the son of circus performers beat his enemies with rage and fists and tweaked batarangs?

Here was a man reared by Batman and inspired by Superman. Here was a man destined to lead superhuman and human alike. Here was a man meant to bring light back to the darkness and grow joy from tragedy. He was bright, friendly, cheerful, acrobatic, humorous, defiant, intelligent, kinda nerdy, supremely athletic, and swung from skyscrapers on ropes. He was all those things once upon a time. Now, even OYL, he is sad and angry. Why does Nightwing cry?

Perhaps he knows his fate was stolen by a rival universe.

Who should Dick Grayson have become?

All-Star Nightwing
 
 
Mr Tricks
19:22 / 09.05.06
So young Dick Grayson gets bit by a radioactive bat?
 
 
Aertho
19:33 / 09.05.06
Haha. Nope. No bats. That's Bruce. No need for radiactive anything really. It's just what I'm thinking after reading this, this, and this.

I honestly think Robin should have left Wayne Manor upon graduation of High School and shacked up with his nearest non circus-performing relatives: Aunt May and Uncle Ben.
 
 
Mario
20:29 / 09.05.06
Nightwing is easy to reclaim. The problem isn't the character, it's the creative choices that have been made with him, most of which have tried to pile angst after angst after angst.

Nightwing is a unique character... the first sidekick to move out from the shadow of his mentor. He's trusted by the older generation, respected by the new (or is it the other way around?). And he gets the BEST girlfriends.

If there was ever a hero that actually _enjoyed_ fighting crime, it would be Dick Grayson. He's well-adjusted, skilled in both deduction and acrobatics, and a total adrenaline junkie. Why should he be unhappy?
 
 
Aertho
20:33 / 09.05.06
For starters, his superhero name sucks.
 
 
Mario
20:43 / 09.05.06
Perhaps, but he's had it for over 20 years now. *shrug*

Unfortunately, the codename that would really suit him would cause legal trouble (especially from a certain blind lawyer)
 
 
Aertho
20:53 / 09.05.06
Yeah!
 
 
Mario
20:59 / 09.05.06
Here's a thought... inspired by another thread.

What if he took the name Wing? It would honor probably the first sidekick in the biz (since the Crimson Avenger is usually considered the first costumed adventurer in the modern DCU), as well as his prior codename.

You'd probably want to tweak the costume a bit, of course. But no yellow feathers
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
00:51 / 10.05.06
The name's not a problem for me- sure it's all 80's/90's dark but it's got a backstory to it that ties it to the most clean-cut and happy of the big-three D.C characters.
The problem is none of the writers seem to appreciate what Nightwing's got going for him: all the crime-fighting and leadership skills mentioned above, Bruce Wayne's unlimited finances at his disposal (should he be an idle playboy? a charismatic philanthropist? Make his way in the world by himself as he has been doing?) and he can click his fingers to make superwomen drop their spandex (it's been an impressive tally so far: Starfire, Donna Troy, Huntress, Oracle, Tarantula, Starfire again, more Oracle, super-powered fashion designer lady, and the best part is I know I've left some out).
Point is, guys should want to be him, girls should want to be with him. Instead we get him angsting out in a crummy apartment.
Okay, so (probably crap, off-the-top-of-my-head) story proposal:

ALL-STAR NIGHTWING #1
Written by Phex
Penciled by a penciller, maybe that guy who does Runaways, somebody with a light and cartoony style, maybe a little Manga influenced.
Cover by some cover artist.
"Flowers of Romance" PART 1 OF 3 The beginning of a brand new Twenty-something Wonder*! Black Orchid -mystical protector of the world's plant-life- is looking to put down roots, but she can't do it alone. She's set her sights on the the seed of the world's most eligable bachelor, Dick Grayson: he's smart, strong, sophisticated- and so not interested in being papa of the pod people! With nowhere else to turn he goes to the only person he knows who can speak to plants on their level- Poison Ivy!
32 PGS./Rated T+ ...$2.99

(The puns, alliteration and exclamation points were all necessary, I swear)

*= Does he have a equivilant of 'Dark Knight' or 'Boy Wonder'?
 
 
Triplets
03:19 / 10.05.06
Phex, I am crushing your fauxlicitations.

Howabout the Man Wonder? Self-aware Silver madness. Speaking of the girls want to be him, men want to love him etc How much should Dick be the counter-part to Jimmy "Mister Action" Olsen (in a Supe/Batman vein)? Should he be? I would just love to see him as Teen Doc Savage in spandex.

Another villain idea: Batman is getting on. Ra's al Ghul is pottering around the Lazarus Home for Retired Sinister-types. But Dick Grayson would make a FINE groom.

Fear Comes The Bride! 2007!

Unfold my splash!
 
 
Mario
11:29 / 10.05.06
I believe Nightwing and Arsenal are in a race for "biggest manslut in the DCU". Roy has a _slight_ lead, thanks to actually fathering a child out of wedlock... on a psychotic supervillainess.
 
 
Aertho
12:35 / 10.05.06
"on" ? ...

howzabout "with" ?

No offense, but "fathering on a woman" is kinda gross for me. Suggestive, even.
 
 
Mario
13:02 / 10.05.06
Either works. Cheshire was the dominant partner anyway.
 
 
John Octave
14:40 / 10.05.06
Nightwing is one of the comic characters that I think actually works better with continuity because, of course, the character's hook is that he is Adult Robin, with everything that comes with the title. So this is how to fix Nightwing in a non-All-Star capacity.

Cassandra commented that Robin was reared by Batman and inspired by Superman, and here is the root of the problem. Nightwing may be the "son" of Batman and Superman, but Bruce has been pulling single-parent duty when Dick's had two potentially loving parents all along, each with very different worldviews. There's the tendency to make him dark because his ties to Batman are so strong, and his ties to Superman are weaker or at least less obvious.

So, to fix. Nightwing spends 12 issues in Metropolis. A Big Plot is going down in Suicide Slum, and Superman needs a temporary full-time partner who's used to working street-level to help stop it. Along the way, Superman gets to mentor Nightwing, emphasizing helping people, whereas Batman tends to focus on fighting crime. Plus, Jimmy Olsen becomes a supporting character, maybe just a touch jealous that Jimmy is only Superman's Pal, but Nightwing is Superman's Partner (can the return of Elastic Lad be far behind? Does he even exist Post-Crisis?). Anyway, at the end of the story, Superman's (and Metropolis') influence has taken hold of him, and he emerges from the experience as the charismatic daredevil swashbuckler George Perez wants him to be. He's not quite equal parts Superman and Batman, but he's in a healthier, less mopey place than he was before.

So what's next for Nightwing? After stopping in Keystone City on his way out west (to see his bestest buddy Wally), he heads for a city that needs a protector: Vanity. Dick sets to work cleaning up a city that's supposed to be worse than Gotham, and he does it all with joie de vivre and a smile on his face.
 
 
John Octave
14:44 / 10.05.06
Also, five minutes in Metropolis would take care of that little "*Gasp* Y-you're a...m-m-meta-human?!?!?!?!" slip-up real fast.
 
  

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