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All Star! Challenge

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Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

16:51 / 12.05.06

Okay, I got one: design a new Doc Samson look. I'll do some research and maybe see if I can propose a story for him. What needs to be done to make Doc look good? And possibly more of a heroic lead?

17:25 / 12.05.06

Green haired Doc Samson? Tell me what you're thinking? What KIND of a character is he? Pragmatist? Brawler? Brain? Strategist? How does he fight? What does he fight? Give me wiki links, he he Dov Savage for the 21st Century? What does THAT mean?

This volley's coming your way, Papers. Game on.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

17:42 / 12.05.06

Off the top of my head...I have to dash off to work in a minute...um. Psychiatrist, worked with the Hulk, fairly sensitive and rational in spite of exposure to gamma radiation. His design has always fought against the inherent green flair of gamma power.

More later.

17:52 / 12.05.06

Well, right, but what's the sick twist? The essential-ness of him?

He's up against Ralph Dibny, The Elongated Man for me... So get bizzy.

18:32 / 12.05.06

Honestly, I'd probably take Leonard the "Doc Savage for the 21st Century" route. Get him a supporting cast (drawn from Marvel's catalog of super-science types) and turn him into the "thinking man's super hero" Marvel lacks.

In fact, he had a redesign about 15 years ago that was much better than the spandex default.

http://www.dragonhero.com/graphics/marvel2/doc-samson.jpg
Lose the ponytail (not visible in that pic), and we're in business. He'd make a great monster hunter, for example.

18:40 / 12.05.06

Weren't his powers tied directly to the length of his green hair ala Old testament Samson?

19:09 / 12.05.06

I think we could easily dispose of that as a psychological limitation. Or we could keep the ponytail, I suppose, as long as it didn't look too trendy. It's certainly better than the Fabio look he usually sports.

20:30 / 12.05.06

Well, right, but what's the sick twist? The essential-ness of him?

He's up against Ralph Dibny, The Elongated Man for me... So get bizzy.

Pffh, screw that. I wanna see your take on the world-famous Elongated Man, who's pretty much my favorite character ever.

20:57 / 12.05.06

my favorite character ever

Then you'd be the guy I'd want to talk to. When it comes to the whole costuming thing, it's a matter of indfluences and inspirations reaching critical mass. I like to have a history and assortment of past outifts, a general idea of the character's behaviour in action, the level of hero work they handle, real-world equivalents, a "soundtrack" to listen to, etc etc...

Why don't you give me a brief on why he's so COOL, and where the character ought to be taken. Be sure to differentiate from Plastic Man, who's pretty much better at everything Ralph can do.

That doesn't mean I'm not interested in Doc Samson, folks. I've got a lot of things cooking in the kitchen.

21:11 / 12.05.06

Everything you need to know about Ralph can be found here

Personally, I always liked the fact that he was a detective first, a stretching hero second. Less Reed Richards, more Nick Charles.

01:02 / 13.05.06

I actually most enjoy the emotionally pornographic implications of Doc Samson:

He's a super-strong, super-sensitive therapist-turned-adventurer who looks like he belongs on the cover of a romance novel.

I'd take the doc through Fabio-tinged explorations in space and sexuality, as he used science and sensitivity to hamper global intergalactic plots with dubious Freudian underpinnings.

Flash Gordon The Genius. All the potency of the Hulk with none of the danger. He's the softcore superhero posterboy. Glasses, muscles, a ponytail, and a too-tight-shirt.

15:17 / 13.05.06

Fabio the superhero? That's effing hilarious.

15:48 / 13.05.06

And yet... not unheard of

16:47 / 13.05.06

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Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Elongated Man is the Nick Charles of the DC Universe. He's not as much of a pain in the ass like Plastic Man, and he's a far better detective (and, you know, funnier and more charming). With Sue, he was the heart of Justice Leagues Detroit and Europe. His adoring public thinks he's a bit crap, and he has the silliest codename in comics, but he perseveres. You know, until they offed Sue, the bastards.

But, yeah, he's mainly a detective first and stretchy guy later. He used to roam the country solving random little mysteries, building up a souvenir collection. Usually he's the guy who's constantly joking around, even when all hope looks lost (he's the moral booster). In a fight, he's not necessarily strong or combat-trained, or anything, but he's clever and resourceful. Also, his nose twitches when he smells a mystery.

No one's written him well since Gerard Jones back in the mid-'90's. The poor guy always gets the short end of the stick, especially nowadays. He used to even have his own archenemy--- Sonar, an old lame GL villain turned into a non-lame sonic-powered diet Dr. Doom.

When updating his costume, keep the purple. His red and blue outfit looks like shit.

And hey, he's getting his own Showcase volume come July, and I will be one of the five people who actually buys the damn thing.

17:37 / 13.05.06

You know, I've seen a couple of those Thin Man movies, and they really ARE quite good. Gingold sodapop as dry martinis and all that. It is such a shame they killed off Sue.

I want to try to capture that drunken duo motif. Can I bring Sue back as a intangible, invisible ghost that only the Ralph can see and touch?

Purple's definitely in. I try not to deviate very far from established brand colours. It's just difficult to put a man in violet, unless that man is the Prince of Monaco or something. Something will have to be done about the supersuit though. I'll try to bring in a "dapper" look, maybe with a fedora. No trenchcoats though, I'm philosophically opposed. Your thoughts?

I'm thinking of aiming the look for street level screwball hijinks with mysteries and comic weirdness, with a sophisticated Scooby Doo audience. Who else would be in the cast? The Harlem Globetrotters?

Bill: Still need a soundtrack. For Barda, I listened to Cish Cash over and over and over; that's what life sounds like from the inside of her head. What's life sound like for Ralph? If he's DC's Nick Charles, is it something goofy but classy, like Duke Ellington's cover of Rhapsody in Blue? Or some piece of 40s-50s jazz, big band, or Vegas crooner? Music might seem lame as a source of inspiration, but it's usually surprising. What are you thinking?

19:34 / 13.05.06

Definitely jazz or big band.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

21:00 / 13.05.06

I say, fedora and suit all the way. If you want to keep some element of supersuit-iness, do so with a waistcoat of some description. I definitely see Ralph as a waistcoat man. I love the idea of Sue as the new Deadman, perhaps - we should postpone our Deadman jam in favour of Sue Dibny - his spectral partner in crimesolving. Invisible to all but Ralph and the usual assortment of mystics.

In other words, I've love you to draw a picture of Ralph sitting across a Parisian cafe table from phantom Sue, while he sips a flextini - you know; gingold, gin, and a dash of pineapple juice, a little bit stretched and being rubbernecked at by every Harry, Henri, and Simone in the joint because he's having an animated semi-drunken mystery-solving riff session with his immaterial wife.

21:09 / 13.05.06

Thin Man meets Topper? I could see that....

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

21:25 / 13.05.06

Ha-ha!

I'm not even sure I could call it All-Star Elongated Man, or the new Elongated Man miniseries. Instead, I'd have to call it something like Dibny Action Hour, or All-Star Sue & Ralph.

Actually: Dibny Action Hour is the damn best title I ever did come up with. Let's go with that. Ralph Dibny, the Elongated Man, detective protege of Hamilton Drew, beloved by millions for his various associations with the Justice League (before that damnable Plastic Man stole his claim to fame, that rascal), but also a dashing sleuth in his own right.

And solving crimes with him? It used to be that Ralph depended on Sue Dibny, his sassy and razor-witted wife to back up his wild theories and generally do a lot of the back-up work, pavement-hitting and general whatever-is-left-over while he rushes off after his wagging, elongated nose. But now, because of somebody else's idiot distortions of the timeline, Sue's dead and Ralph is confused, tragic, and lacking his rock. They were a team, a brilliant duo to rival Batman & Robin without the questionable innuendos and on definite equal-footing. So there he is in his One Year Later funk, with the gun and the lose of spirit.

Spirit, literally, as Rama Kushna hirself appears before him in wild, psychedelic delights and hexagonical flail. Chad, I'm picturing "Calamity" Jon Morris's style, or some Darwyn Cooke pop art if that kicks any neurons. Rama Kushna, spirit of life, announces that because of temporal distortion and questionable logic, Sue Dibny has returned from beyond the veil to serve as Boston Brand's replacement, occasional team-up buddy, and afterlife detective - to function as Ralph's spiritual associate in much the way Deadman works with Batman. Because somebody up there really loves Ralph, and that somebody's named Sue. Picture Truly, Madly Deeply, maybe, with Nick & Nora, and some super-action. Confused by all the madness in his life, Ralph is so overwhelmed with delight - perhaps tweaked a little by Rama Kushna - and is given a choice by the all-mother to fight crime again with his honey, only he's got to find himself first. Which involves reclaiming the detective over the hero with Hamilton Drew-inspired suits with waistcoats - super-ones, outfitted with JLA comms of course - and the pair of off to Paris for their first wild adventure!

03:26 / 14.05.06

The Elongated Man, so far.

Not sold on the "E" logo... trying to keep it subtle, but also "super". Not sure whether the M for man should accompany it. That's a holster Ralph's got on, only it's been elongated to carry a flask full of gingol. Ralph's colour scheme is purple, gray, black, and white; Sue's just white and transparent, but I figure the dead fox of her fur wrap could act as a familiar.

Does Sue Dibny become "Deadwoman", get a red suit and a big serifed "D"?

03:46 / 14.05.06

It's fun so far.

My eye assimilated the E in his breast-line as a tie at first, and actually, if you're displeased with it as-is, a necktie or some similar suggestion of shape might help communicate it in a way you like.

There's something royal in his color schemes that you're hitting with the shapes. It's interesting.

12:58 / 14.05.06

He needs a blazer or something, to match her "society" look. And I'd hesitate to give her too much in the way of power. Simply being a ghost is benefit enough (did you ever see "Topper"?)

13:33 / 14.05.06

Never seen Topper. I was thinking simply a ghost as well. Invisible, intangible, and potentially connected to TPTB, like Cordelia.

As far as Ralph's supersuit goes, I'm trying to walk that fine line where he's able to go from a Parisian cafe, to a Hong Kong murder case, to a JLA emergency meeting on the moon, and still look in-of-place. Will look into the waistcoat idea.

Don't they have a dog? The Charles' have a dog.

13:36 / 14.05.06

See here

It's a great old comedy.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:17 / 14.05.06

Sue shouldn't get the Deadwoman outfit; I tend to see her looking a little bit like the glowing, radioactive woman from Planetary with some transparency.

Good early sketches, man.

15:21 / 14.05.06

You know, that was exactly my vision of her as well. Only with Jackie Kennedy under the glow. Thanks.

17:01 / 14.05.06

Or Dr. Girlfriend?

17:01 / 14.05.06

Or Dr. Girlfriend?

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

18:36 / 14.05.06

Depending on how retro you want Sue...I'm thinking Snjebjerg's rendition of her in Starman with the little scarf tied around her neck...you could throw in a pillbox hat. Although, how "dignified" is Sue, anyway? Jackie O seems like a good fit complexion-wise, but Sue has always struck me as a bit more willing to get her hands dirty...though, there's the question of how much that would be reflected by her immaterial afterlife manifestation.

I'll throw around some story ideas. I want to have her meet Boston Brand at some point in the proposal. I don't want Sue staying around to be at all tied to the idea of vengeance and personal justice...Boston was initially linked to the need to find his killer, but for some reason death has merely washed away some of Sue's potential bitterness to Jean Loring. Not that it could be referenced, but I'd prefer if she simply accepts the (from out of story completely stupid and pointless) insanity Jean was subject to. Mostly as a way of avoiding having to deal with angst regarding that aspect of the backstory overly much.

Definitely start with the pair heading to Paris after Ralph is contacted by the family of Madame Rouge...they want definite clarification and evidence that Rouge is dead, and so they contact someone with detective credentials and superhuman contacts without the intimate connections to the Doom Patrol that, say, Batman would have...ideally as much as the family didn't get along with Rouge, they want someone who can be objective. So the Dibnys head to Paris in hopes of visiting the old Brotherhood of Evil headquarters as a starting point...the one that was underneath the old girls' school.

I like the idea of starting there because Rouge has certain reversed-but-similar aspects to Ralph, and it's an opportunity to explore the evil doppleganger vibe without having to actually do it, and it also thematically ties into Sue's death as well.

19:14 / 14.05.06

I don't see Sue as quite that retro. She'd be fashionable, without being too over-the-top. That's Ralph'd department.

22:22 / 14.05.06

I really dig that EM design, and now I really, really want to read The Dibny Action Hour!

22:33 / 14.05.06

The design looks great, and Dibny Action Hour sounds brilliant.

23:59 / 14.05.06

Okay, calling all Barbesexuals. Next up for All-Star treatment: Obsidian

Something like a dark fantasy version of that "princess" Jade revamp might be nice.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

00:19 / 15.05.06

I think the question needs to be: what would Obsidian look like wearing Tyroc's costume?

01:05 / 15.05.06

I did him already. On this very thread.

But I want to add a quote I've always liked:

"..he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside."

As you may have guessed from my Cloak revamp, I'm really bored with the whole "dark = evil" concept. Since Obsidian isn't really suitable for the whole yin/yang approach, I'm playing with the idea that he's a protector from the things that would hide in the shadows. Because he IS the shadows.

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