BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Grant Morrison's Batman

 
  

Page: 12345(6)7891011... 62

 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
15:16 / 10.07.06
That forum makes me glad we don't have sigs here...
 
 
FinderWolf
14:44 / 26.07.06
Batman, like his World's Finest movie counterpart, has to deal with a young 'un he sired TODAY!!!
 
 
Billuccho!
21:42 / 26.07.06
C'mon, tell me someone else read it...
 
 
Tim Tempest
22:10 / 26.07.06
Argh. I still have to wait a week...

Enjoy for me.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
22:40 / 26.07.06
"I don't suppose the Earl of Wordenshire returned my call?"

Giggle.
 
 
Billuccho!
23:51 / 26.07.06
Stuff I liked:
The obscure reference to the Super-Batman of Planet X.
Gordon and Batsy sharing a bizarre sense of humor
BAT-POLES!!!
"You're doing it all the time, sir."
Alfred feeds the Bats.
"Err... mask."
Actually, every Alfred moment. Especially the "formidable nun" bit.
"There goes my vacation."
The pop art show.
Ninja Man-Bats.
The fact that Grant went over most of the bits *I* was planning on doing if I ever wrote Batman. What happens when Batman beats all the bad guys in Gotham? What's it like if he has to teach himself how to be Bruce Wayne again?

Stuff I didn't like:
The opening sequence. What the hell? Between the story and the art, it was a little too confusing.
The art itself. Andy is the worst of the Kuberts. It's a little too sketchy and a little too "eXtReMe!!1" Image-y. The layouts are too plain and the composition and blocking is off. Also, that panel of Robin making his entrance... ugh. Poor figurework.

The little moments are great. It's the "big" stuff which is losing me. I was hoping for a bit more of the JLA Uber-Bat. Still, I have hopes.

I also picked up Dini's first issue of Detective today. I may have liked that better, but it was most certainly the art that would lead me to believe that. If only J.H. Williams was drawing the Morrison book...!

It looks like I'll be getting two Batbooks a month. That's never happened to me before.
 
 
Mario
01:02 / 27.07.06
Just in case you missed it:

Earl of Wordenshire = Knight of the Ultramarine Corps.
 
 
wicker woman
04:46 / 27.07.06
So... not to be all depressing-ish, but who wants to bet that after Grant's undoubtedly fantastic run is over that DC will 're-vamp' all his changes, a la Marvel scumfuckery?
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
09:26 / 27.07.06
Phex Continuity-obsessed fanboy mode activate!

1) Isn't the Earl of Wordenshire, and all of the Ultramarine Corps, lost forever in the infant-universe of Qward which is actually our universe which is actually Neb-Uh-Loh the Huntsman? Did he come back One Year Later? Maybe it's a little hint for what'll happen in Seven Soldiers...

2) Isn't Batgirl running the League of Assassins now? In fact has Talia ever been all that involved in the League, which is really more of her father and (deceased) sister's thing while she has her Society to look after? They could at least get different names- Batgirl's could be the League of Shadows maybe?

Also: Batman Chest Hair alert is set to Yellow for 'increased readiness'.
 
 
Grady Hendrix
11:59 / 27.07.06
I liked it a lot, especially the opening. But what happened to the other Batman? I want to see more of him. A crazy guy in a Batman outfit who shoots first and asks questions later? Coolio!

And you can't bring on the ninja Man-Bats fast enough for me.
 
 
Robert B
13:10 / 27.07.06
I liked this issue but not sure it lived up to the hype I had built up for it in my mind. The art was a little "off" (only way I can describe it) and the story felt a little choppy (reminded me of some of Grant's JLA that felt over the top).

On the plus side: Jokerized Commissioner Gordon, Bruce-Alfred banter, Ninja Man-Bats, and Bat Poles!
 
 
Professor Silly
13:30 / 27.07.06
The other batman, the deranged cop, died--you can see his cape on a stretcher (with a sheet covering most of him) in the panel with the real Batman carrying the body of the Joker

loved it loved it loved it
 
 
John Octave
14:45 / 27.07.06
I don't know why, but I liked it at least twice as much on my second read-through than my first. It's the kind of late-70s/early-80s Batman stories I liked when I was a kid. All you need is John Costanza lettering instead of Generic Comicraft Font.

It makes quite a bit of sense that Gotham was kind of holding Batman back, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of the globetrotting adventurer Batman sans the need for first-person narrative captions about what a wretched soul he is in a wretched city.

And that Batmobile tease was nice, because now I'm actually excited to see it.
 
 
diz
21:24 / 27.07.06
I really love the matter-of-fact way they handle the Batman having cleaned up Gotham. For years now, we've been having writer after writer having Bats wallow in "I'll never clean up Gotham. It's the worst city evar," so to just drop the "Wow, well, Gotham's pretty much cleaned up!" bomb so nonchalantly was fantastic.
 
 
The Falcon
21:37 / 27.07.06
Well, once again, Jog basically said anything I'd've said much better than I could've; I was far from blown-away. Obviously Bat-poles and Joker-copters are v. important, but - ah, the art, she is not very good. There must be in the region of 100 panels, say, and the spreads are decent plus about another eight or so single panels. This is at 10% good, to my mind, a worse hit-rate than Howard Porter on JLA.

I am enjoying it more on each read, however, having reached three today but it's just... the Morrison-madness is bubbling in the background, I guess, but I want it unleashed all the time.
 
 
The Natural Way
17:11 / 28.07.06
But I do find something very BATMAN about the art, and I just the way Morrison provides such an effortless, elegant rationale for a return to hairy chested, globe-trotting goodness, while at the same time balancing all of it out with a grim-and-gritty-Gotham-where-the-Joker-gets-shot-in-the-face vibe. All the elements are of the Batbeast are in there somewhere. A really great synthesis. And all that aside, what about the other great stuff:

- the after-effects of the laughing toxin? Have we ever seen that before? Ace. And the little insight, via Gordon, into the Joker's psychology: "Everything's funny when you think about it. So Funny it hurts...."

- The gadgetry in the Bat-mask! What is all that stuff.

- Alfred! Morrison's got him down.

Oh, I have to go on my fag break, but there's loads more. This book does get better with re-reads. I really like it.
 
 
Triplets
17:44 / 28.07.06
Phex Continuity-obsessed fanboy mode activate!

Not here, MacPhex. Hallowed ground!
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
19:02 / 28.07.06
well, I really enjoyed it. it IS almost the comic version of the Filmation TV cartoon - red skies! even the Jokopter seemed in place here. tell me about Alfred! the cave sequence! Wayne's daily routine! very good characterization. I'm not a fan of the Son of The Demon storyline but hey, whatever brings in a "new" flavor.

I guess Batmite and the alien Batman is not far now... hm, Two-Face on the loose [maybe Crock as well] and Gordon maybe turning into a new Joker; that may prove very very interesting.

and, as I believe Barbelith is filled with readers in their early to mid thirties [who were also exposed to Neal Adam's Batman in some way], I see why most of us so far enjoyed it.

the art is not that off as I thought it would at first, apart from the two-page sequence of the Joker being shot.

Kubert managed to make us believe the clown of price had a metal plate in his forehead... and that the cop dressed as Bats changed masks in-between panels. other than that it was very good actually, and this linework has so much of his father in it - that I haven't noticed before. that somehow gave me a feel of old Italian comics in the vein of Bonelli. Adventure stuff, you know?

JH Williams III's work is *amazing* but somehow I don't think it'd be the better fit here. maybe they can exchange artists with DETECTIVE for an issue or so just to give us a taste.

*so far* the story's nothing earth-shattering, it was mostly set-up but at the same time there all kinds of things going on. to tell the truth, the first sequence has some sort of brilliance to it in diving into action already hot when going in, the end of an episode in the life of the Bat. I dig that. it's a simple tool but bring back that feeling of randomly picking a comic from the racks. I know, fuck nostalgia but this feels good.

Morrison seems aware that no matter what he does Batman will always be Batman, like Milligan once said after his run. guy's just having loads of fun, free from guilt and taking us along for the ride.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:51 / 28.07.06
>> - The gadgetry in the Bat-mask! What is all that stuff.

I figured it was a microphone/headset thingie; since these days he seems to be communicating with Robin, Oracle, Alfred, via just speaking, so there must be a mic in his cowl right by his mouth. I thought it was cool to see that stuff in the cowl after it's been implied for so long.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:30 / 28.07.06
The best thing about this comic is the way that, once he's in England, Bruce Wayne is raising an eyebrow suavely in pretty much every single panel he's in. This feels like the Casino Royale of Batman comics - the one with David Niven and Woody Allen, obviously - and as such I am enjoying it a lot, in a very odd way. It's also the first mainstream DC title I've bought since... the first few Brubaker/Stewart Catwomans, I think.
 
 
diz
07:07 / 29.07.06
Morrison provides such an effortless, elegant rationale for a return to hairy chested, globe-trotting goodness, while at the same time balancing all of it out with a grim-and-gritty-Gotham-where-the-Joker-gets-shot-in-the-face vibe. All the elements are of the Batbeast are in there somewhere. A really great synthesis.

I don't really think it's a synthesis so much as a catharsis. The first few pages are taking the grim-n-gritty Batman status quo from the past two decades or so through to their brutally logical conclusion, so as to get it out of the system early to clear the decks for his run.

Joker beats Batman to death with a crowbar (a la Jason Todd), Batman shoots Joker in the head, they die together in a bloody tableau of grim angsty bullshit.

Then the whole thing gets dismissed as the work of an imposter Batman, and things "return to normal," which is to say, the status quo gets re-set to Morrison's ideal settings.

"The grim-n-gritty Batman you've been seeing since Dark Knight Returns? I don't know who the hell he was, probably some nutbag wannabe. The real Batman's world isn't that brutal and violent. Oh well, we seem to have killed him off, so let's get back to the real Batman."

Far from being a synthesis of globe-trotting playboy Batman and the grim-n-gritty Dark Knight, it's a total "fuck you" to the concept of the grim-n-gritty Batman.

Gordon maybe turning into a new Joker; that may prove very very interesting.

Where did you get that from? He's just suffering lingering effects of the Joker gas.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
16:17 / 29.07.06
Where did you get that from? He's just suffering lingering effects of the Joker gas.

it may be a stretch, but...

evidence 1 [check left side of Gordon's face in that last panel]

evidence 2 [last panel too]

well, it could open a cool opportunity for showing Bats trying to capture and treat his old pal without killing him.

and the original Joker's not dead yet...
 
 
Triplets
16:51 / 29.07.06
Hh. I think it could either way at this point but it could be fun. Batman, the good Batman, trying to bring down a Joker with a core of humanity inside.

Possibly be a good counterpoint to this, the beginning, with Bateman trying his best not to kill the Joker.

Or Oldman could just be twitching like fuck. Whahahankers!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
17:11 / 29.07.06
Those panels are strong pieces of evidence.

Evidence that Gordon is suffering lingering effects of the Joker gas.
 
 
Malio
17:40 / 29.07.06
I tend to go for the laughing gas theory, though interestingly Newsarama quoted GM at San Diego:

"The Joker gets shot in the face, point blank in the first issue," Morrison said, saying that a new Joker will appear in his fifth issue, and will fuel a new Batman-Joker dynamic.
 
 
Tim Tempest
22:06 / 29.07.06
So the old Joker is dead then...?
 
 
andrewdrilon
22:44 / 29.07.06
The Gordon-Becoming-New-Joker would make storytelling sense for a number of reasons:

1. It brings intense emotional tension to the Bat-world using established elements without having to introduce new historically-linked villains like Hush or Red Hood (Jason Todd)--a clunky technique which any writer will need to lengthily justify to a Batman audience, unless it dovetails neatly from prominent old storylines.

2. This one does--it follows up and builds on an Alan Moore thread (we've seen Grant do this in Zatanna)--specifically, Moore's "The Killing Joke", widely considered to be one of the best Batman stories ever (along with "Dark Knight" and "Arkham Asylum"), which I'm sure you've all read. If not, stop reading this post, because spoilers below.

In "The Killing Joke", The Joker goes to great lengths to drive Gordon insane; shooting his daughter Barbara (now Oracle), abducting him, stripping him naked, sending him through a complex series of traumatic events (he showed Gordon Polaroids of naked wounded Barbara, and he even took the trouble of acquiring a decrepit carny park for this purpose). When Batman arrives later on, Joker justifies it as a demonstration to Batman of how any sane, rational man can easily turn to madness, "All it takes is one bad day".

It sorta justifies Joker's motivations in a screwed-up way, but it could be argued that this reasoning is lacking. Portrayals of Joker may vary, but for the most part we know that while Joker is insane, he is also very lucid and calculating within the parameters of his madness (which has a brilliant logic of its own--demostrated by his ability to perpetually vex a man as capable and intelligent as Batman. And if you read Arkham Asylum by Grant, it's also there).

Perhaps Joker was also testing Gordon? Or planting seeds which he could exploit later? A viral facet to Joker's mindset which is more magnified than simply poisoning a victim with his smile and laugh? It would make sense, and would build on Moore's canonized storyline, if people thought such a thing was possible.

3. Grant is on Batman as an ongoing series--not a mini or a contained storyarc or maxi-series. We've seen in New X-men and JLA that his first issues tend to lay rich groundwork for future storylines. Given that, why start off (on his first page, even) with the image of Gordon getting poisoned by the Joker, if not to plant seeds for later use?

It could be argued that the first part of this first issue is a statement on the grim-and-gritty state of Batman now (which doubly serves as a shock-value action/event-packed opening salvo), showing a transition from this violent negative state to a more positive (albeit still violent) state.

But Grant is a better writer than that, and I honestly think he'd plant clues there already, perhaps playing on the whole "Detective" aspect of Batman, in that it's all there for the acute reader to pick out.

4. If so, then there are clues aside from the obvious: Commissioner Gordon was the only person shown to have been poisoned--not Joker's underage hostages, not the false Batman who shot him. Why Gordon, specifically?

Also, as pointed out by Hector, the scene in the hospital ends with Gordon stating "Does this mean I'm getting better, or worse?"--which is definitely a comedic moment, but if stop looking at it as a joke, it's an unnerving statement.

The nurse said "Doctor Kaminsky says the effects of the toxin should wear off by lunchtime"--this strikes me as weird, given how devastating Joker's toxin has been shown to be in previous Bat storylines. While it's entirely possible that they've developed a working antidote to the toxin (which the reader is led to insinuate), one of Morrison's established skills in in engineering the "Reread It: Things Were Not Necessarily What They Seemed" effect on the reader in reference to earlier events in his story. It's also entirely possible that Joker's developed a more insidious iteration of the toxin, targeted specifically at Gordon, one that would follow-through on the whole viral Joker theory.

5. Finally (and this may prove to be entirely irrelevant), we've seen one of Morrison's techniques to revitalize a popular franchise: the "things get better and where do we go from here" situation. This was shown in New X-men, where he took Magneto off the board in the second issue and brought him back much, much later for devastating effect. To address the thread that the Newsarama readers have latched onto--that Grant's statement of a "new Joker" arriving is just the old Joker returned from his gunshot episode bigger and badder--it just feels too soon, storywise. It makes more sense that this "new Joker" is someone entirely new, reserving the classic Joker for a much bigger storyline later on.

This is all theory of course, and I may be wrong, but all signs seem to point in the Gordon-Becoming-New-Joker direction, and in all honesty, it's an exciting way to give the Batman ongoing another shot in the arm, keeping the momentum of engagement established in the first issue. How will Batman deal with it? How will Barbara react? It's a situation that's just full of juicy story potential, and Gordon doesn't necessarily HAVE to remain the New Joker--Batman could resolve the issue, and Gordon would be returned to his regular place in the status quo.

Besides, if there's anything Morrison no doubt learned from writing New X-men, it's that the big comicbook properties eventually have to return to the mass-consensus (or editorially-mandated) status quo. He can build new toys within the status quo, he can even muck around with the status quo for the duration of his story, but the general established elements and their configurations that most people are familiar with HAVE to eventually be restored. Gordon having a brief episode as a New Joker would definitely fall nicely into this mindset--it's shocking, exciting, and it will hook fans, but it doesn't HAVE to deal any lasting damage to the property.

LOL I got a bit carried away here. Blah blah blah. What do you guys think?
 
 
John Octave
13:01 / 30.07.06
Look at those scanned panels again. That's Two-Face toxin, brother.
 
 
Spaniel
18:41 / 23.08.06
Choice cuts from the Morrison interview over at Newsarama

Spoilerish...





Everything in my first issue is significant and yes, the un-named cop who shot the Joker and died dressed as Batman feeds into a story which will begin to unfold an arc or two down the line.


I'm trying to put all kinds of things back into Bat-continuity in a way that makes sense, including Bat-Mite and Ace, the Bat-Hound.
[Woot!]


I figure Bruce does whatever it takes to maintain his health and stay stress free and fit. He would see sex as just another form of exercise with proven health and efficiency benefits.


As I say, I have fifteen issues planned and there's a good chance I'll do more. My goals are to make the Joker soul-destroyingly scary again, to get the reader further into Bruce Wayne's head than ever before and to create at least one good new Batman villain.






End Spoilerish


And much, much more.

Excuse me while I go off and sex Grant. Between this and Brubaker's DD and Iron Fist I am surely going to be kept very happy indeed.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:56 / 23.08.06
Great interview. Creating a major new villain for any of the big established superhero icons is always challenging... (well, many have been created, but creating one that really works and STICKS & enters the mythology with some respect...that's rare.) Would love to see a Grant-created villain enter the Bat-mythos. (We do have Prometheus from Grant's JLA run, who's a fun character for every-once-in-a-while use.)
 
 
FinderWolf
20:01 / 23.08.06
from that interview:

>> GM: [when asked about terrorism and Frank Miller's upcoming 'Batman takes on Al Qaida terrorists' graphic novel] Cheering on a fictional character as he beats up fictionalized terrorists seems like a decadent indulgence when real terrorists are killing real people in the real world. I'd be so much more impressed if Frank Miller gave up all this graphic novel nonsense, joined the Army and, with a howl of undying hate, rushed headlong onto the front lines with the young soldiers who are actually risking life and limb 'vs' Al Qaeda.

Hmm...will that last statement lead to a huge public debate between Miller and Morrison, with each saying 'well, if you're so cool & tough, why don't *you* join the army to fight real terrorists??' Or will it just fade into snarky/comedic/sarcastic/throwaway comment interview memories...? (also interesting how Morrison puts 'vs' in quotes....maybe to get the cliche-but-true idea across that we're all one humanity and to be killing each other is essentially counterproductive?)
 
 
The Falcon
20:21 / 23.08.06
I don't imagine it'll amount to a hilla beans, FW.

I read the 'vs' as a comment on the questionable existence of such a group as opposed to who's actually being fought and killed, but that's possibly my own biases coming into play.
 
 
Billuccho!
22:09 / 23.08.06
Thanks to Grant Morrison and Batman #656, I now know that Batman keeps the mask on when he has sex.

Also, that interview was gold.
 
 
FinderWolf
23:32 / 23.08.06
although in the SON OF THE DEMON graphic novel (republished as a thick-comic/non-paperback-graphic novel about 2 weeks ago by DC, with a new Kubert cover), he's maskless in that scene, as I recall... it is funnier with the mask on, tho'.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
01:57 / 24.08.06
Gold indeed. My favorite bit:

NRAMA: Just so everyone's on the same page - that was the real Joker getting shot in the real face by a real gun by a guy who wasn't Batman in our reality, right?

GM: No, it was Xorn.
 
  

Page: 12345(6)7891011... 62

 
  
Add Your Reply