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Smoothly
09:34 / 08.02.06
Fridge and Vincennes have written guides in the Files section.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:54 / 08.02.06
Please note especially the bit about how to enter the date - YYYY-MM-DD.
 
 
Smoothly
10:02 / 08.02.06
Also, in the first half of page 1 of this thread there's a discussion of how the process has been amended slightly now that the mandatory second check has been dropped.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
12:05 / 08.02.06
I've forwarded around 30 emails to the Yahoo group.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:39 / 08.02.06
When I get home tonight I'll sort out the dates that have been put onto the database in the wrong way.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
17:57 / 08.02.06
Right, I've sorted out the dates so that they all read the same way. This means if you click on date applied and then the last button at the top of the database it will take you to the last few names to be added.

I've also gone through the last names I forwarded from the email account and passed the people with institutional addresses. This was naughty because it means more work for people when checking names against databases but frankly I'm up to here with humanity today and I can't bear to look at any blogs or other evidence of real human existence.

Toodles.
 
 
Shrug
19:41 / 08.02.06
So then, if an applicant cites recommendation from existing members using their real names rather than online ones (which I don't know) an acceptable check would be to mail him asking one of those people to pm me for confirmation?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
20:07 / 08.02.06
I've already sorted him out. I was on AIM with one of the people he cited at the time.

Click on date applied at the top and then on the last button, which is also along the top. I've blammed everyone onto the database so you don't have to stick their records on now.
 
 
Shrug
20:14 / 08.02.06
*Sigh*. So much easier now. Thanks Nina!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:49 / 08.02.06
Do we need any rules on who gets membership, btw?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
20:59 / 08.02.06
If you can prove who you are you get membership. After that it's basically the judgement of the person approving but that's always going to require a couple of people looking at it. I'm not sure we can have rules, the emails are so varied.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
21:00 / 08.02.06
For instance I've emailed a couple of people at addresses on their websites rather than the email address that they applied from today. That pretty much clears up any website-identity links.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:43 / 08.02.06
Sorry, membership of the group, not the board.
 
 
iconoplast
17:37 / 09.02.06
I just logged into the gmail account, looking to forward some more apps to the group.

However, I don't know if there's a way of telling which messages have already been forwarded, or marking the messages once you forward them.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
17:53 / 09.02.06
Can people please check the 7 names left stranded in the database before we forward anymore.

I'll do the forwarding. Seriously I think that this needs to be systematised a little bit more. Once we've cleared January I'll tell you how to handle the gmail account and stick something about it in the files section.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:01 / 09.02.06
I'm sorry, I know I'm handling the whip a bit but I have something to say. This is a responsibility, no one even bothered to check the email account for spam and delete it, they just left it sitting there because nothing could be forwarded. It took me two hours to work through the thing junking the junk yesterday and I'm going to have to check the emails against the database to make sure duplicate records aren't uploaded onto the Yahoo group. We have had people asking what the hell is going on. As such I'd like it if people steered clear and let me deal with it this week.
 
 
Quantum
18:26 / 09.02.06
I heart Skryty big stylee.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:39 / 10.02.06
A quick heads up: 5 records that need names beside them on the Yahoo group. Around 45 emails still waiting to be forwarded.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
16:54 / 11.02.06
17 emails forwarded, not yet on the database.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:22 / 12.02.06
There are currently 12 records on the database without names next to them so they need to be checked.

We have 41 emails to be forwarded to the Yahoo group, the last was sent on the 28th January so within the last fortnight. We're currently receiving around one email a day so I think we're in the amber zone.

I have forwarded and passed all emails belonging to an educational email address tonight so all of the 41 left are going to need to be checked out quite vigorously.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
23:25 / 12.02.06
Forwarding from the gmail account:

Messages need to be forwarded individually. This is how I do it.

Go into the individual email (start from the bottom of the inbox). Click on forward, which is at the bottom of the message. Write B into the address window. This will bring up a series of email addresses, simply press the enter key on your keyboard and it will select the address you need to forward to. Click on send. Archive the message (by clicking the archive button under the message. You do not need to go back to the inbox to do this). Gmail will then take you back to the inbox. Repeat as many times as you want to.

Then put the names that you have forwarded onto the database individually or by importing the records (guide in files section of the Yahoo group).

If there has been a response to the original message and you can't work out how to get to the original to forward it then leave it and I'll forward it later.
 
 
girakittie
12:57 / 14.02.06
I hope this is an appropriate thread, I just wanted to thank all of you who volunteer your time and energy. I got approved today and I really appreciate it!
 
 
Tryphena Absent
12:57 / 14.02.06
Ding ding, just the FIVE (27 in gmail account)!
 
 
Lurid Archive
14:11 / 14.02.06
We still need more people, I reckon.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:37 / 14.02.06
No, we just need everyone to do one record a day tops.

Frankly I'm forwarding emails manually and uploading them on to the database on my own everyday and the fact that out of 20 people, 2 or 3 have done any checking in the past 48 hours is pissing me off just a bit.
 
 
Lurid Archive
17:49 / 14.02.06
I think people may not be sure how to do things.

One answer would be to forward the application emails directly to a person, at some pre-agreed rate - eg 5 emails, once per week. That way they'll be given a push to do it. I can see problems with that approach, but it may be better than what we have now.

What do people think?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:53 / 14.02.06
It's all explained clearly though. I think the problem with new people is lack of confidence but they should just ask if they're doing it right.

As to the way you're suggesting- I'm a little worried about it because what if someone decides they don't feel well enough or they're too busy or they're going on holiday and they don't tell anyone... frankly it's more work for me because I'll have to keep track of who's going onto the database and who isn't. No offence but I just don't believe anyone else will do that at the moment.
 
 
Smoothly
19:02 / 14.02.06
I'd be happy to have applications forwarded to me directly. I'd find it easier in fact. I suppose we'd have to keep a record of who was forwarded what, although I suppose the Sent Items folder would act as that.
Would anyone be keen to take responsibility for doing the forwarding/distribution?
 
 
Lurid Archive
19:16 / 14.02.06
OK...how about this? Do the same as usual, but also forward the emails in bunches to a person, perhaps instead of forwarding to the yahoo group. The expectation is that a person who gets emails will put themselves down on the list as a checker.

If the name of the apllicant appears on the database anyway, we can always check that people are being dealt with and someone can clear it up if they aren't - after a week or so with no checker assigned. As long as we make it clear that we *are* asking people for a committment (though we still have a mechanism for coping with someone being unable to do anything), this set up should work.

I don't think it makes more work for the person entering the names in the database, and hopefully it will clarify which people in the group are actively working on membership.

To do this, one would start by asking people in the group how many emails a week they are prepared to receive and deal with. We also make clear that if someone can't handle applicants for some reason, they should let the group know immediately. I think it would work.

(One problem is that a checker who scans the database and finds an applicant has been waiting without a checker doesn't have the original email. I don't think that is really a big deal, since the application email doesn't strike me as being hugely relevant anyway. You can just ask the relevant questions.)
 
 
Tryphena Absent
19:49 / 14.02.06
Look I'm going to say this once, right now and I want this to be the end of it.

Everyone on the list can opt to get individual emails. It takes up to 2 minutes to scan the databse if you make the selection in the right way. No one even bothered to delete spam from the email account while it gathered 303 emails.

Guess what- I spent about 12 hours cleaning up the last mess after I'd been at work all day so we are not doing this unless someone says hand on heart that they will dedicate the time to comparing the database and the emails that they have sent out. I have seen no evidence that anyone can do that because at least 12 records were duplicated on the database last week by individuals who had the ability to check in minutes if they were on there by scanning three pages. Guess who deleted those duplicates, guess who compared emails and records. Me.

So I'm saying no, I don't have faith that anyone has the time or energy to observe the system you are proposing properly. It will not work because no one has actually been paying enough attention. We have a simple and easy system that's easy to clean up, the system that you're talking about is more difficult to clear up after.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:36 / 14.02.06
As long as we make it clear that we *are* asking people for a committment (though we still have a mechanism for coping with someone being unable to do anything), this set up should work.

I would like to add this in response to your point Lurid. Between 23rd October and 7th February it was mentioned once that no emails could be forwarded. In light of this the very notion that people will respond and say they're unavailable before we send them emails is questionable and that means the system will eat the time of the person sending those emails, I'd suspect pretty consistently. That is before you factor in the idea that someone might forget to mention that they aren't around to check their email inbox for a few months and no one notices that those records haven't gone through.

Let's say people forward the emails to themselves but no one bothers to do that for a week or two weeks or a month because everyone is busy as is bound to happen eventually, we then have a backlog again. We've basically been advertised in two national newspapers very recently, which means the profile of the board is spreading. Chances are eventually we'll hit a widely read net page, possibly in the next 12 months and applicants could go up. Let's say someone forgets to archive the applicants and no one bothers to look at the database, which means a large number of people go on twice and get passed twice leaving it to either the sender or Tom to weed secondary records out. If no one catches the secondary records than people can potentially have two suits. This system was introduced to phase out trolls, what if two suits go to a troll.

This is a system that can't afford a lack of attention or hierachy and to make that attention more difficult to apply makes us less systematic in our approach, not more so.

Primarily our aim now has to be to deal with records quickly and efficiently so we don't leave people waiting in the wings for months at a time. We need to be systematic and our attention has to be ongoing. We need to avoid pitfalls and potential problems and the best way to do this is to assign jobs. Vincennes forwards records to Tom at the end of the process and I forward them from the gmail address and pop them on the database. The rest of you check them, it's simple, easy and it already works.

Our primary aim should be to ask people to either come on to the group and check consistently or to leave the group if they feel they cannot do this.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:44 / 14.02.06
I'm sorry, this is all coming across as harsh but I work in admin and that's what this is essentially. A bad system is always one that restricts information instead of opening it up. You have to keep everything linked together or it goes wrong and takes longer to sort out.

Just imagine for a moment having to sit down and work out from a sent folder, which emails were sent to a specific person and then having to go through the archive to forward them to someone else. Utter hell.
 
 
iconoplast
01:15 / 15.02.06
It seems to me that the current system, aside from Nina and Vincennes (who, respectively, feed and cull the app pool). is best described as a 'dibs-calling' system.

I log into the database, and look for name w/o a primary checker. Then I put myself down as priimary checker, go and start checking (sometimes this means emails. Sometimes not), and update the DB with my progress and/or decision.

To move from a 'dibs-calling' system to a system of assignments... I dunno. I /like/ the dibs system, and I like that we're making it work. It feels very much in tune with the distributed moderation thing we're all so hyped up on.
 
 
Olulabelle
01:46 / 15.02.06
I'm sorry i haven't been helping much but I've got a computer which works now so I can dedicate more time.

The job seems to be falling on the shoulders of one or two people at the moment which isn't very fair, but yay to them for sorting it all out. FWIW I logged in this evening but everything new was 'dibbed' already so the only thing I had to do was check up on the ones I still have outstanding.

If we each did perhaps 5 a week that shouldn't be so bad?

Thank you so much Nina for putting all the time in that you have. You've really sorted the backlog out.
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
18:56 / 15.02.06
I want to thank Nina for her extreme patience; "Communist Penguin" for his understanding; and, frankly, my chagrin at "Ace Attorney" (I'm also a lawyer. I practice in Miami) for letting another of these confused people who think counter-intuitive behaviour is appropriate (outside of work and reading Kafka) on the Earth plane on this list. I certainly hope he wasn't my second checker (or was I one of the 35 that got by?).

Daemon
 
  

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