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"Countdown to Infinite Crisis" spoiler

 
  

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I'm Rick Jones, bitch
23:48 / 14.04.05
...except that Max Lord has a history as a murderous scumbag (it's in his fucking origin, for christ's sake!). And there's a precident for Blue Beetles buying the farm in the line of duty. And that Blue Beetle and Booster weren't intended as "funny" characters, they just happened to be the only characters available to a writer who wanted to write a funny book? All this snide fanboy dipshittery is really making me ill, and if finderwolf attempts to overcompensate for his inital review of Identity Crisis I'm going to be sick on my shoes.

Has anyone considered that the folks at DC might be getting more depressing as the whole fucking world is getting depressing? Why can't comics cast a mirror on the world? Why can'r comics reflect that guy in florida who "suicided" while investigating vote fraud? Why can't comics reflect the Iraq war, the shadow cabals that are swallowing America? These are nasty, pessimistic times to be alive, and I don't see why people can't understand that this might show up in the work of comic book creators. Not everyone's a fourth dimention cosmicly enlightened shithead who thinks the end of the world is a good thing - some of us are fucking terrified of it!

[/rant]

A lot of people were pissed off when Grant Morrison blew up Genosha, turned Beast into a cat, had him beaten with a baseball bat, killed Darkstar and Risque because somebody had to die, fucked with the X-Men's interpersonal relations and got X-Force's characterisation completely wrong... People fucking seethed. Over at CBR and Comixfan, they're still seething. But I loved it and you loved it because it was all clearly for a purpose and it was all going somewhere.

There is no difference between the Morrison approach to X-Men and the DC approach to Infinite Crisis.

I'm interested in IC (not emotionaly invested in it, mind). I'm interested to see Dave Gibbons write space opera. I'm interested to see Greg Rucka write a Weapon X type story about taking out the superfriends. I'm interested in Gail Simone writting about villans. Day of Vengence... eh. The creative teams are great, and the stories are going somewhere. Comics lines don't do that very often these days, and I'm interested to see how it can be done with intelligent people on board (who aren't Brian Bendis).

As for graphic rape, who among you has burnt their Doom Patrol run in protest? Anyone? Zantana #1, that's got rape played for kicks. Boycott the fucking stores!

It's a Crisis, for fucks sake. People die in these things, like The Losers and Supergirl. And it's a traditon spanning years, decades.

So can we please stop all this comic book guy crap, and let the people who want to read this stuff get on with it? I don't post THIS IS SO FUCKING BORING AFTER A RELATIVELY STRONG START or NOT AS CLEVER AS IT THINKS in every S7 thread after Shining Knight, do I? Not very constructive.

[/rant][/rant][/rant][/rant][/rant]
 
 
Eskay Doss
01:50 / 15.04.05
Maybe people are pissed off that the "real world" is bleeding into superhero comics because #1 it's been done (watcmendarknight etc)and #2 it rarely fits well with the genre (especially in-continuity). Let those real world concerns you mentioned be better explored in other kinds of comics, leave the superheroes out of it. Next thing you'll want is a frank and contemporary exploration of sexuality on Sesame Street (brought to you by the letters S & M, and the number 69 - doesn't fit, see?).

And comparing a SINGLE writer and his work to a COMPANY and something written by a GROUP of writers and editors is as nonsensical as the jla's condescending dissing of the Blue Beatle. Comparing DP to IC? Like comparing fine wine to a glass of toast sauce. Zatana #1 playing rape for kicks? Dude, did you actually read it because that is just plain wrong. If you want to convince people, you'll have to make a stronger arguement.

Personally, I'm not a fan of this whole x-over but I am curious to see where it goes.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
02:07 / 15.04.05
The rape thing I referenced in Zatana #1 was Gimmix's reference to being molested by shape changing monsters. Rape, played as a joke. Doom Patrol's quality vs IdC's quality is entirely irrelevant, the fact is both use a graphic instance of rape as a springboard to unlikely, superheroic events.

Jane might get a touching story out of it but the fact remains - the character was put through rape and mental illness as a means of making the world's weirdest superheroine. Likewise DC needed a very bad thing to split the JLA for this comming arc, and like it or lump it, it is a more mature and realistic story telling conceit to have a harrowing sexual assault split the Leauge than the plans of Starro or Darkseid or whoever.

Given the crossover between TV, Film and comic books, I think we're going to see much more of this kind of approach. Why do you think Joss Wedon used a mutilated boy's suicide to wake up the danger room, instead of a comet or phallanx invaders or whatever? As more crime novel (Brad M, Greg R) and tv (Joss W, Judd W) come in to comics you're going to see much more of this. Rape and murder are the bread and butter of crime novels, after all. Like it or lump it, but get used to it.

What's really all that objectionable in this storyline? We have rape, sure, but at least it wasn't handled in the same horrible fucking way Warbird's was. We have betrayal and murder, which is ten a fucking penny in comics (esp. 2000ad, which I was brought up on. They die a lot and they stay dead, there. Maybe I'm just more used to it). We have criminals conspiring, magic wars, a crisis. Buisness as usual in the DC, and no cause whatsoever for all this froth and bile. Those deaths aren't meaningless stunts, they're planned stages in an escalating Crisis storyline. And as such, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt, just like Grant on NXM*.


*Speaking of which, it's entirely fair to compare the core plotting group of InfC to Grant's NXM - they are the people writing the stories, after all.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
07:01 / 15.04.05
People fucking seethed. Over at CBR and Comixfan, they're still seething.

That is a tad boring I have to admit... it's been like two years and everyone still gets all riled up. Move on!!

[back on topic, I apologise]

After reading this thread I do feel a pang of intellectual guilt at really enjoying Countdown. I'm not usually a "DC" kinda person, they play their heroes, for the most part, as gods to be revered, whereas Marvel tend to make their heroes more humanized and full of the faults of real people.
But this comic has made me intrigued by the DCU as a whole and for once it is encouraging to see a company try to make a more cohesive universe regardless of the dark or light direction.

I wonder if DC resurrected their "Putting the fun back into comics" type of stories (which has been detailed on Newsarama in their "Bargain Bin reviews"), would there be this sort of outcry? Why not make the holy trinity, Supes Bats and WW all jovial and light and wise cracking? Would that piss off as many if you as these stories have done?

I guess what I'm saying, as an outsider from DC, that all this guff about "how could they ruin a characterisation from the 80's" really doesn't mean anything to me. Those books were published twenty years ago real time, probably about five years comic time. We aren't who we were back then and neither should the heroes of the DCU or the universe they inhabit. It seems that people here want stagnation or the comforts of the stories from their youth, which is something most of us detested when the fanboys were ranting about NXM.

The story contained in Countdown (I can't speak for Id Crisis) really got me in the way that comic book stories should. It was a good, fun read, slightly inconsistant in places that I fully expect to be explored later in the Crisis, but I'm eager to read more.

As for all the "how can they kill Blue Beetle" ranting again I don't care who they kill as long as in the story it makes sense and means something in context, which in this case, for me anyway, it does.

I'm not going to defend the direction that the DCU is heading because until the entire focus is resolved we don't actually KNOW where the writers and editors are heading. All of this could be some great misdirection, although I doubt it.

One last thing I'd like to point out, whenever anyone mentions a grim and gritty comparison the only two examples have been Dark Knight (set in an elseworlds style future) and Watchmen (in a universe of it's own).
Hardly an appropriate comparison for a company wide initiative to reflect reality in a superhero world.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:25 / 15.04.05
I agree that the conversation between the Blue Beetle and the Great Wizard Shazam was frighteningly realistic, and reflected many of the key concerns of our day, in particular the situation in Iraq.

Which is to say, what do people mean by "realistic" here? There seems to be an assumption that these ideas relate as reality to copy. They do not.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
08:04 / 15.04.05
Has anyone considered that the folks at DC might be getting more depressing as the whole fucking world is getting depressing?

That, my friend, is bollocks. Getting depressing? The first World war - laugh riot! Black death? fucking knees up!

Not everyone's a fourth dimention cosmicly enlightened shithead who thinks the end of the world is a good thing - some of us are fucking terrified of it!

Why are you so angry about Morrison here, in relation to you enjoying Countdown?
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
10:12 / 15.04.05
I was never claiming there was a direct relation between reality and copy. I'm simply suggesting that there's some shadowing going on here. That's kind of misrepresenting my point, and a bit of a strawman arguement.
 
 
Spaniel
10:19 / 15.04.05
There are those of us who think the whole notion of the world getting "darker" is one big straw man.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
10:42 / 15.04.05
So the rise of the neocons, climate change, iraq, the unravelling of the UN... that's all happening in another world, is it? Wow, I feel so much better!

I'll try to restate my point a little more elegantly since I posted that lot way late last night: given the current state of events, it is understandable that a comic book editor or writer might start to produce darker or more depressing work.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
10:49 / 15.04.05
I was never claiming there was a direct relation between reality and copy.

See, I thought that's exactly what you were saying. And I think it's a spurious defence for what appears to be a rather cheap and nasty retcon job. Giffen and DeMatteis' JLI was an original and witty take on super-heroing, which had it's fair share of (nnngh) darkness (see 'Breakdowns', one of the most depressing superhero 'epics' of all time IMO).
What appears to be happening, post Identity Crisis, is a reshaping of history in a desperate attempt to explain away a supposedly 'embarassing' period of DCU history. Max Lord becomes about 1000 times less interesting as a sub-Lex Luthor baddy than as a morally ambiguous businessman.

Rape and murder are the bread and butter of crime novels, after all. Like it or lump it, but get used to it.
No thanks. If you can't see the difference between Crazy Jane's story, and the thoroughly cheap use of rape as a shock tactic in IC, then fine. Enjoy the grit.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
11:01 / 15.04.05
And the fact of the matter is, Blue Beetle was never really written that way EXCEPT in JLI. Sure, sucks they used Max as a villan, but it probably sucked for all the X-Force fans to see Feral and that other one (that looks dead like Feral but isn't) mashed out of character in NXM. Characters get written out of character and retconned in comics all the time. The only way to judge whether this kind of thing is justified is to assess how good the story involved is. It seems NOBODY is capable of witholding judgement on InfC until we've seen more than one issue of it, instead opting to revert to crybaby comics fanboy type. Which is getting sicknening, really.
 
 
Spaniel
11:06 / 15.04.05
Boogy, are you really trying to argue that those living in past times didn't have it bad, or that things have never looked as bad as now?

During the eighties we had the nuclear threat, which felt very real and scared the shit out of millions of people - myself included. We had climate change - as now, no one knew the when or (precisely) the how of the situation, but bad things were on the horizon. We had a rather nasty right-wing prime minister who ignored social justice, supported a nasty right-wing US government, and demonised homosexuals. We had a greed culture... should I go on?

No I shouldn't, this is a thread about a comic.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
11:12 / 15.04.05
No, please do. I don't think that need invalidate my point - the 80s were very pessimistic times to be alive as well, and that just so happened to be the decade grim and gritty started.
 
 
Spaniel
11:19 / 15.04.05
Sorry, I wasn't attempting to invalidate your point re IC. I was taking issue with your assertion (or what I took to be your assertion) that things are exceptionally bad now.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
11:23 / 15.04.05
I just think we're going through a pessemistic period as opposed to an optimistic one. Every generation that's ever lived has had to cope with it's own fears and apocolypses, obviously.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:38 / 15.04.05
I'll try to restate my point a little more elegantly since I posted that lot way late last night: given the current state of events, it is understandable that a comic book editor or writer might start to produce darker or more depressing work.

I seem to recall that while Booster Gold was battling the Royal Flush Gang, nations of millions in Eastern Europe were being brutally oppressed and denied democracy or the right to practice religion or preserve their own culture. The US was funding Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan, and Iran-Contra was in full swing. Africa was struggling to recover from massive crop failure and famine, racial discrimination remained enshrined in the constitution of the largest and best-armed state in Africa. Poison gas was being used in the Iran-Iraq war, a war with well over a million casualties. The Lebanon was racked by a civil war that had made it totally ungovernable and reduced its population to desperate subsistence. Meanwhile, the President of the USA declared of HIV education:

as long as they teach that one of the answers to it is abstinence - if you say it's not how you do it, but that you don't do

And his successor had AIDS protestors rounded up by policemen in arm-length yellow rubber gloves. The Helms amendment added HIV infection to the reasons legally to exclude people from the USA. AZT was still being trialled. In the UK, the Local Government Act 1988 banned the council funding of materials promoting homosexuality as normal.

And so on. Just because one reads the papers now does not mean that the world was hugs and puppies when one didn't. Darker and more depressing comics were produced in 1987, and wackier comics than the Giffen/Dematteis JLA are being produced in 2004. Some of the comics produced in the 1940s, when the world was in danger of falling into a dark age of fascist oppression and genocide, are positively zany.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
12:01 / 15.04.05
I don't disagree. All I mean to say is it's a bit much to expect everyone to be a silver-age revivalist at times like this. I don't buy the dark comics = bad comics arguement.
 
 
The Falcon
12:11 / 15.04.05
I like Watchmen.

I like DC superheroes.

However, I do not like the 'bad Watchmen' approach to DC superheroes.

Whatever. Y'know, I think it's cool there's a Crisis 'cos I was reading Zoids and Transformers the last time, and was blissfully unaware of it. I think it's cool that Phil Jiminez will get a chance to emulate George Perez, and raise his own profile, 'cos I think Phil Jiminez is a cool guy and good artist.

But I can't get next to any of the writers on these books - Johns, Gibbons, Willingham, Simone (not really given her a fair shot) and Rucka. And I've really tried with the latter. Never works.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:19 / 15.04.05
I don't buy the dark comics = bad comics arguement.

I'm not sure if anyone is selling this argument, really, apart possibly from Finderwolf. Certainly a refutation of this argument is not a successful refutation of every unfavourable opinion expressed about the comic "Countdown to Infinite Crisis", which is being discussed here, or indeed the "Infinite Crisis" crossover.

Also, this argument is not the argument you actually made. The argument you made was:

Has anyone considered that the folks at DC might be getting more depressing as the whole fucking world is getting depressing? Why can't comics cast a mirror on the world? Why can'r comics reflect that guy in florida who "suicided" while investigating vote fraud? Why can't comics reflect the Iraq war, the shadow cabals that are swallowing America? These are nasty, pessimistic times to be alive, and I don't see why people can't understand that this might show up in the work of comic book creators. Not everyone's a fourth dimention cosmicly enlightened shithead who thinks the end of the world is a good thing - some of us are fucking terrified of it!

To which the answer is:

a) It is difficult to judge the state of the world purely on the tone of a particular set of comic books.
b) If a comic wants to "reflect the Iraq war, the shadow cabals that are swallowing America" et cetera, having the Spectre attempting to destroy all magic in the DC Universe is either a brilliantly allusive or a bloody odd way to do it.

Nothing about whether dark comics are by definition bad comics at all, on either side.
 
 
Spaniel
12:24 / 15.04.05
Certainly doesn't counter my objection to the DoV preview.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
12:26 / 15.04.05
It's very true the statement I made after my arguement isn't the arguement I made, and it's also very true that it doesn't attempt to rebuff any of the other arguements against the InfC project. Which is why you might want to read the rest of my posts. Y'know, the ones I made more than one point in.
 
 
FinderWolf
12:28 / 15.04.05
Whoa, whoa, I NEVER said "dark comics = bad comics." In fact, I went out of my way to say that it's not a matter of the subject matter but the way in which it's handled and the quality of storytelling, and how it works more, perhaps, with certain characters than others.

I'm saying there are good stories that deal with darker issues and there are bad stories that deal with darker issues. As someone said above, the 'bad Watchmen' approach to superhero storytelling where it doesn't fit with the characters.

But of course, what someone finds to be a "good" "dark" story' differs from person to person.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
12:29 / 15.04.05
And again, there's more than one mini spinning out of this, Haus. You're focusing on the one I refered to as eh. Not quite a strawman arguement, but you're getting there.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
12:30 / 15.04.05
instead opting to revert to crybaby comics fanboy type. Which is getting sicknening

What, do you view yourself as some kind of neophile up against the anti-progress nerds? Or do you maybe just like shit comics?
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
12:32 / 15.04.05
Again with the value judgements, chum. You have no idea if these will be shit comics because they haven't been published yet.
 
 
Spaniel
12:32 / 15.04.05
Boogle, it's argument not arguement.

Get it right, man!
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
12:33 / 15.04.05
I kant spel so gud.
 
 
Benny the Ball
12:49 / 15.04.05
Man, this is spiraling!

As I stated before, I like the cut of Electric Boogaloo's gib, and I think that hir has raised some interesting points, particularly about giving the series' a chance before condeming them. However, condeming Infinite Crisis is fine, the book as been released, so now it is opinion not speculation. Many of the complaints don't stem from the book being grim with fun characters, but rather that the characterisation was badly done on many levels. I've been out of comics continuity for a while, there was a time when I would pick up anything, and love DC, so I have no idea if this is all new ways that the main characters are being writen, but Batman as a miserable sod trying to and failing to scare people from the shadows is lazy. And, the fact that EB has pointed out that Max Lord has a shady past (but let's not forget that Max is dead, and that Lord is Captain Chaos or some such character who has taken his shape and identity or something, I can't remember the exacts, but he is an android isn't he? Or a shape shifter or something?) but that he has fallen into sub Luthor cliche rather than suggesting that he was number two in something bigger or whatever, highlights a depature on his part. BB wasn't a fun character to begin with (he's mentor dies, he trains himself to be as good as possible to carry the mantle etc) but his character had that certain wise-cracking spider-man meets batman thing going which has always suggested that he isn't the most serious of people. The main complaint seems to be that Infinite C's wasn't well writen, not that comics are for kids though.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:51 / 15.04.05
If you had read the post I just made, Boogs, you might have noticed a lengthy quotation from the post in which you made your argument. Are you saying that the statement you made after your argument has nothing to do with your argument, and that you have disowned everything you previously said to plump instead for this statement as a summation of everything you want to say:

All I mean to say is it's a bit much to expect everyone to be a silver-age revivalist at times like this. I don't buy the dark comics = bad comics arguement.

Is that, in fact, all you meant to say, and everything else you said you have now discarded as worthless? If so, fair enough, but it's worth noting that 1987-1992 is not the Silver Age, so the comparison with the Giffen/Dematteis Justice League is not "Silver Age revivalism". Unless you mean that the G/D JL was silver age revivalism, in which case what was it about 1987-1992 that made it reasonable at that time to expect everyone to be a silver age revivalist, when the world was even then a pretty nasty place, better in some ways, worse in others? Or possibly that, because George Merriman likes to do Silver Age stuff, anyone who does not like Countdown to Infinite Crisis only dislikes it because they are unable to appreciate the value of anything not written by Gretchen Moripoll, because that is the only possible reason, making any opinion dissenting from yours snide fanboy dipshittery? Does anyone here actually expect everyone to be a Silver Age revivalist, now or at any time in the past? Has that expectation been mentioned before?

If you mean that I should go further back than your big post at the top of this page, perhaps you could help me and my chum Scott McCloud out on how to interpret such densely allusive statements as:

Oh for fuck's sake, it doesn't look that bad...

and

Fun Spectre. Fucking great. He won't destroy a whole country with god's awesome wrath, he'll have a custard fucking pie fight or some shit.

I know that in your world people only disagree with you because they are all shit and also all doing each other all the time, but it's hard to be won over when little you say seems to display any understanding of what the words in previous posts by other people or yourself actually mean when assembled in that order. Although the idea that anyone who has just reminded us of the fate of Supergirl can then tell us to stop all this comic book guy crap, and let the people who want to read this stuff get on with it is pretty fabulous, if your argument is that it is somehow unsportsmanlike not to like things because it puts those who do off their stroke, you might want to spend less time in places where negative opinions might be expressed, like anywhere. I had not realised previously that only this believe was preventing you from expressing dissatisfaction with other things, but you might have seen other people be other than glowing about various Seven Soldiers products. Your criticism is not going to ruin anybody's life. It might ruin the odd thread, because it will start out incoherent, contradict itself repeatedly, fail utterly to comprehend anything anyone else says and go rapidly downhill into a series of non-linear personal attacks.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:10 / 15.04.05
And again, there's more than one mini spinning out of this, Haus

If you'd like to explain exactly how the fact that there will be a number of comics crossing over to form the "Infinite Crisis" event somehow makes my argument a straw man, please do. The best I can work out is that it means that you believe that at some point every ill of the modern age will in some way be reflected in "Infinite Crisis", and to suggest that any given woe will be examined in Day of Vengeance rather than OMAC or the The Rann-Thanagar War is unreasonable. In which case, cool. Care to make a wager? I reckon OMAC will be a metaphor for shadowy government agencies recruiting metahumans to intercede in homeland security and foreign policy, an idea so contemporary and of 2005 that to suggest that the resurrection of the name "Checkmate" might have some connection to the late-80s comic Checkmate would be near-insane.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
13:16 / 15.04.05
I don't think you're really in any position to be hauling anyone over the coals for personal insults, Haus, so let's set that flamebait to one side, shall we?

As for the Sliver Age revivalist comment, that seems to be a fairly good summary of the recent career of Bonny Grant Morrison, the very writer who inspired the very messageboard we're talking on now. Grant has been getting a lot of praise for his SA-type stuff around these parts. That's what I was refering to, not JLI. I can't tell if you've simply misunderstood me or you're deliberately trying to distort what I've written.

In the same vein, when I said "all I mean to say..." I assumed we were discussing a specific part of my earlier posts, not the entire thing. And again, I can't tell if you've misread my admittedly fuck-awful prose or you're deliberately trying to distort what I've written.

Snide fanboy dipshittery? I kind of think that's what a lot of people here are challenling, whether they'll admit to it or not. We've had a lot of "fuck you Brad M!" or "look at so and so, he's made a little "fuck you" to Brad M in that book!" type comments floating around, as well as a "tear stained copies of IdC" bit in conversation. At the risk of the pot calling the kettle black, it's all frighteningly dull. Barbelith is better than this.

As for the Losers, I read that when I was idly browsing Comics 101 about 2 days before the post. Even if I do know a tiny smidge of trivia, how the fuck does that make me comic book guy?

Do you want to debate this like gents, Haus, or do you want to start another pillow fight? Come on.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
13:25 / 15.04.05
If you'd like to explain exactly how the fact that there will be a number of comics crossing over to form the "Infinite Crisis" event somehow makes my argument a straw man, please do. The best I can work out is that it means that you believe that at some point every ill of the modern age will in some way be reflected in "Infinite Crisis", and to suggest that any given woe will be examined in Day of Vengeance rather than OMAC or the The Rann-Thanagar War is unreasonable. In which case, cool. Care to make a wager? I reckon OMAC will be a metaphor for shadowy government agencies recruiting metahumans to intercede in homeland security and foreign policy, an idea so contemporary and of 2005 that to suggest that the resurrection of the name "Checkmate" might have some connection to the late-80s comic Checkmate would be near-insane.

And again, I never said every ill of the modern age will be reflected in InfC. Never. I said that I thought it isn't unreasonable that comics should reflect (conciously or not) the era they're made in. InfC is shaping up to evoke bits and peices here and there: BB's death kind of makes me think of the Florida vote inspector who was found in his tub in iffy circumstances, even if nobody at DC had heard of the case (this is likely, I'll admit). Rann/Thagnar has the whole iffy war thing going on, Villans United has the crooked cabals pulling the strings, and OMAC is all about spying and distrust. Day of Vengence... maybe it'll remind me of the impact of Soccer Mom culture on American culture or something*.

I'm not looking for incisive satire or political comment. I'd be a fool to claim that. I'm looking at how the broad strokes reflect the time it's being written in, and I think it's a pretty good match.


*I am clearly deathly serious about this
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
13:29 / 15.04.05
Forgot to add to the above: Your arguement is a Srawman because it focuses on the the one aspect of the crossover I clearly wasn't talking about. Clearly, because the base concepts of the other three minis were war, cabals and more cabals. Come on.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
13:29 / 15.04.05
Sliver Age revivalist comment, that seems to be a fairly good summary of the recent career of Bonny Grant Morrison

But, you see, I DON'T THINK IT DOES. Are you seriously telling me that all you've got from Seaguy, WE3, JLA: CLassified, Vinamarama and the four very different Seven Soldiers comics was 'Silver Age revivalism'? Cos I think that's simply a pat accusation you've decided to level at Morrison of late that has very little to back it up. And the very idea that 'IDENTITY CRISIS' and the 'Countdown' prologue offer something more is plainly ludicrous. I'm not condemning the comics that haven't been published yet, I'm talking about the ones that have. And simply calling people who disagree with you 'fanboys' or 'crybabies' is dull, dull, and dull. Internet tough talk is laughable.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:30 / 15.04.05
On a separate note, some people in various reviews have mentioned the notion that the Maxwell Lord who's in the past 2 comedy-oriented JLI minis and the Maxwell Lord who's currently "The Black King" in COUNTDOWN are two different Lords - one is a robot/android/cyborg/something and the other is just plain human Maxwell Lord. But I notice no one's really talked about that here. I vaguely remember Maxwell Lord going android/cyborg, but are they really two different Maxwell Lords? Or just only one Maxwell Lord (and the JLI stories are obviously set before IC) and he's got some cyborg parts in him? I'm a bit confused about this.
 
  

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