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"Countdown to Infinite Crisis" spoiler

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04:49 / 06.04.05

Okay, here's something I'm confused about. Countdown to Infite Crisis, right? and all of these spinoff miniseries, right? So does that mean that there's going to be an Infinite Crisis book?

m.

09:52 / 06.04.05

Seems to imply that, but wouldn't be suprised if they just have a cross over massive thing going.

Just read this. Okay - I am a big Blue Beetle fan, and a big JL Geffin etc fan, so you can kind of guess what my feelings are on the whole thing.

It was nice to actually see Ted running a book for a change, but they had the characterisation so wrong on so many levels. It just showed lazy writing, as though they planned the crisis, plotted the whole thing, and then debated about who to have as the villian and have as the dead one. Plus the Max Lord thing, dull.

As Haus, I think, pointed out above thread, there was darkness in the DCU and JL days, the Teesdale Imperative was dark, the Metamorphs baby was a fairly dark story, and the last story arch was about death and destruction (as was anything that featured that big nasty alien who killed Gypsy's folks (can't remember the name, sorry) but at least the darkness was in amongst strong characters with a sense of history and place, this book had none of that.

It's a shame that DC feel the need to do this, in a tired lazy way. It sounds as though several ideas running through other books are creating enough of a sense of something big and bad coming (OMAC etc) that this is just heavy handed and kind of seedy.

Anyway - enough ranting, I guess I'm just pissed that BB bought it, and that the only character that said how good he was, was Lord being out of character - it's a shame.

Haus of Mystery

10:16 / 06.04.05

Also the idea that Lord's masterplan involved allowing Booster & Beetle to do the whole Kooey Koooey Kooey thing, and basically any of the other hare brained stuff that the Giffen-League did is fucking laughable. Kind of a convoluted plan for an evil genius.

11:37 / 06.04.05

Okay, here's something I'm confused about. Countdown to Infite Crisis, right? and all of these spinoff miniseries, right? So does that mean that there's going to be an Infinite Crisis book?

Yes, seven issue miniseries pencilled by Phil Jiminez.

From new Crisis Counselling (awful name) at DC:
To keep the element of surprise we tried to keep the title of COUNTDOWN TO INFINITE CRISIS a secret to the last possible moment. But now that it's out, let the rumors run rampant, and let the excitement begin. We are counting down to INFINITE CRISIS, the sequel to one the greatest stories told in comics, ever. Its changes will be far reaching and its effects everlasting. In creating a sequel to the classic CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS, we knew we had to generate a story that matched — or beat — the expectations of the original. Therefore, as COUNTDOWN showed, no character is safe, and no series protected. Promise.

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:03 / 06.04.05

Infinite Crisis. A seven-issue limited series.

Is it just me?

12:41 / 06.04.05

And written by Geoff "I never met a cliffhanger splash page I didn't like" Johns.

Haus of Mystery

12:43 / 06.04.05

Limited Infinite Crisis on Infinite Multiple Limited Earths - an infinite limited series coming soon. Rape and headwounds guaranteed. Suggested for limited mature readers.

13:10 / 06.04.05

Dropouts, you mean?

15:08 / 06.04.05

The DC heroes (and perhaps some readers) will NEED "Crisis Counselling" after all the senseless murder, rape, betrayal, mindwiping, and bad writing of this event...

15:29 / 06.04.05

IIRC Crisis On Infinite Earths was created to clear up DC's tangled continuity by eliminating all the alternate earths. Then Zero Hour was brought in to sort out timeline problems, much less effective. Then the Kingdom miniseries introduced Hypertime, essentially reinstalling the concept of multiple universes.
So what exactly is the point of Infinite Crisis, beyond selling comics and making the DC Universe 'darker'?

15:56 / 06.04.05

I'm wondering if it* is a device to remove that pesky "heroes don't kill" rule. Y'know, even Batman has to have second thoughts about his aversion to murder when Jason fucking Todd can return from the grave.

* "it" being Infinite Identity Criseses on Multiple Parallax Erths. Or whatever.

17:49 / 06.04.05

Umm, surely DC will NEVER remove that rule, for many, many obvious reasons.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

18:00 / 06.04.05

Both this and 'Identity Crises' seem to have lots of people screaming about people acting out of character. Now, is this just a favourite complaint of comic fans come big X-Over time (I know H.E.A.T. used it about Hal going nuts and of course, to justify bringing him back, they've used the excuse that 'yes, he WAS out of character!'), is it bad writers not giving a toss or, just maybe, is this going to be part of the story?

And, as anything can be reversed, does it matter if Sue and Ted are dead?

19:31 / 06.04.05

Sue's DEAD?

23:12 / 06.04.05

Yeah, I was thinking about that - in terms of what someone earlier in this thread said about maybe the whole "everyone's being a dick to Blue Beetle" complaint being something to do with Max Lord telepathically manipulating them, just like he did to make them all funny years back.

So of course a lot of this is idle speculation until the story's finished.

m.

06:58 / 07.04.05

So what exactly is the point of Infinite Crisis, beyond selling comics and making the DC Universe 'darker'?

Current effects seem to be to create a more cohesive DCU. Storylines spilling into other comics as opposed to each title being ultimately in it's own pocket reality.

Effects after Infinite Crisis hits are still unknown... I think the cohesion between titles is a good thing but I'm not sure that it'll be the ultimate repercussion.

As it is now set to be the "sequel" to Crisis On Infinite Earth's what is there to "fix"? Unless it's a sequel in title alone...

I'm still completely confused about the whole Superman title that's set a year in the future... Shouldn't that be after Infinite Crisis?

12:21 / 07.04.05

>> I'm wondering if it* is a device to remove that pesky "heroes don't kill" rule.

Well, Rucka has been emphasizing in his Supes & WW books recently that Diana has no problem at all with killing whenever she feels its necessary, much like her uber-warrior portrayal in Kingdom Come. This is something she disagrees with Supes & Bats on.

And even Supes killed the 3 Kryptonian villains in John Byrne's run, back in the late 80s, which was actually a decent story. They were ultra-powerful, three psychos with all his powers and he saw no other way of containing them. So he dosed 'em all with green K, and then felt all guilty about it and exiled himself into space for a while to find and forgive himself.

12:22 / 07.04.05

Maybe Infinite Crisis will erase all this crap grim'n'gritty stuff. We can dream.

>> I'm still completely confused about the whole Superman title that's set a year in the future... Shouldn't that be after Infinite Crisis?

THAT whole thing seems like just a mess at this point. Who knows if they'll clear this up...

14:55 / 07.04.05

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Cyborg's 'ultraviolent senses' again. Seriously, re-read that panel. That's what he says. What kind of a super-power is 'ultraviolent senses'?

'No, Beetle - I've beat the fuck out of everything in this building and I still can't find anything. Sorry.'

And can someone sum up what happened in Id Crisis for me in three sentences, so I don't have to (a) wade through miles of threads or (b) read the fucking thing?

14:58 / 07.04.05

Diana has no problem at all with killing whenever she feels its necessary.

That's exactly the point with Diana. She trusts her own jurisprudence. Not like neurotic Bruce or Clark.

15:15 / 07.04.05

JV re IC -

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
Sue Dibney is raped by Dr Light in a grim and gritty past, the JLA do a mind number on him to make him a crap villian and forget the whole thing, but Batman isn't happy, so they mind wipe him also.
The Atom's divorced wife kills Sue accidently in an attempt to make the heros scared and care about their loved ones more, then covers it up, leaving the heros to search a series of dead ends, including the death of Captain Boomerung, until they finally realise that she did it, leaving the atom to lock her up and go into self-imposed exile smaller than he has ever been or something.
Dr Light remembers how bad he was, a series of red herrings hint at bigger things to come, batman gets grumpy about the mind wipe and everyone seems to know everyone elses identities.

That's about it.

The more I think about it, the more I would love for this all to colapse in on itself, and have the atom discover that the universe is being manipulated by writers, and this explains why no one can write a character like they should be any more, and it all comes together in the end with the grim and grittiness being put to rest, and a new age dawning.

15:23 / 07.04.05

>> I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Cyborg's 'ultraviolent senses' again. Seriously, re-read that panel. That's what he says. What kind of a super-power is 'ultraviolent senses'?

Not to mention the bizarre name the OMAC computer gives Diana's silver bracelets/gauntlets ...I forget what it was exactly, don't have the issue in front of me, it was something like "Vempadnes"??!

15:25 / 07.04.05

>> The more I think about it, the more I would love for this all to colapse in on itself, and have the atom discover that the universe is being manipulated by writers, and this explains why no one can write a character like they should be any more, and it all comes together in the end with the grim and grittiness being put to rest, and a new age dawning.

I agree. If some of the Rich Johnston rumors earlier in a countdown-related thread (titled 3, 2, 1.... I believe) are true, this would indeed be cool.

15:39 / 07.04.05

Where Wonder Woman's arm guards refered to as Vambraces?

that would be correct.

15:40 / 07.04.05

I think you'd lose the majority of the readership with something like that.
Animal Man-esque stories may be loved critically but I don't think your average Joe Schmoe will really get it.
They want tights and tits and fighting after all.

And I also have a feeling it'd betray the conclusion, why be esoteric just to make things fun again? Why not just make them fun again?

16:47 / 07.04.05

Very cool - I just have never heard that word ever in my life.

18:01 / 07.04.05

They are still used in various Martial arts... mostly KUNGFU... you've probably seen them. Black leather with studs....
like this.

18:05 / 07.04.05

Goth wristbands basically then?

I have some of those... I'll start calling them vambraces from now on.

18:08 / 07.04.05

Actually (loads up old SCA fiction suit) vambraces are an archaic term for the part of armor that goes on the wrists. The term "bracers" are also used, and derive from it.

20:17 / 07.04.05

Goth Wristbands... if you must.

I've meet a few shaolin monks who are anything but gothic & ware them. They still have a martial application and predate the "goth" scene by a few generations. But, y'know, why bother explaining THAT here.

21:09 / 07.04.05

Pithy response duly noted and judged as unecessary. Thanks.

What were they called in the TV show? Bracelets of power or something?

01:40 / 08.04.05

Yeah..Bracelets of Power, made of "Feminum".

In the comics, they were made of Amazonium for a while...but they were called "Bracelets of Submission" *rolls eyes*.

Nowadays, they are the Bracelets of the Aegis, and are unique.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

03:54 / 08.04.05

The Atom's divorced wife kills Sue accidently in an attempt to make the heros scared and care about their loved ones more, then covers it up, leaving the heros to search a series of dead ends, including the death of Captain Boomerung, until they finally realise that she did it, leaving the atom to lock her up and go into self-imposed exile smaller than he has ever been or something.

You're forgetting that she knows everyone's secret identities and has been locked up in Arkham Asylum.

Which better be dealt with, as that either strikes me as either a HUGE set-up to a story or the dumbest plot hole in history.

05:42 / 08.04.05

Oh, so not only did Doctor Light rape Sue Dibney, but it happened in the past now. I see. Now, when would that have been? When he was in Suicide Squad, as a comedy member? Yeah, that makes sense, actually. That story with the devil in, where he keeps dying all the time - you know, the really funny, totally stupid one - well, that can't have happened in the DC universe really, it's not grim 'n' gritty enough, so we'll say that whole thing was, ah, a screen memory implanted by the Martian Manhunter, yeah. And, ah, every golden and silver age Batman story as well. Yes. And every story featuring the Riddler, full-stop. Yeah.

The more I think about this, the more it resembles my epic plan to write a grim 'n' gritty rewrite of the He-man continuity, in which Man-at-arms died! He-man raped Teela! Which was because he was never good at all, really, he was a domineering evil macho aryan uberbastard! And the only person who could stop him was...Orko!

I was thirteen at the time, is my point. Last I looked, the DC bods were considerably older than that. So what's their excuse?

ONLY NICE THINGS

07:25 / 08.04.05

When he was in Suicide Squad, as a comedy member?

Covered, believe it or not. When they mindwiped him, they also decided that, although it would be poor form just to stop him being a criminal while they were in there, it was acceptable to fiddle about in his head a bit to turn him into an incompetent buffoon.

No, honest.

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