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Frank Miller, Jim Lee: The Goddamn Batman

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Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

04:47 / 20.09.05

I suppose, but his work doesn't do much for me in the end. Miller's writing comes across as too grunty for me to bother with, and in the end I'm just not terribly interested.

It's a bit like watching that B-movie that isn't even bad enough to be funny. It's just ... meh.

The Falcon

08:46 / 20.09.05

ARE YOU RETARDED OR SOMETHING?

FinderWolf

12:45 / 20.09.05

>> To be honest, I think Miller had too much fun writing Sin City, and got locked into that mode of square-jaw'd ironic machismo and misogyny from then up to the present.

Bingo.

This Sunday

16:29 / 20.09.05

Except that 'mode of square-jaw'd ironic machismo and misogyny' was all over his Daredevil, too. And 'The Dark Knight Returns'.
Which is neither here nor there, but I figured somebody had to state it. Doesn't make this project good or bad, or the idea good or bad. But, this isn't something awfully new to Miller, even if it is more obvious.

FinderWolf

21:13 / 20.09.05

>> Except that 'mode of square-jaw'd ironic machismo and misogyny' was all over his Daredevil, too. And 'The Dark Knight Returns'.

Again, I feel that his DD work, Batman: Year One and DKR are well-written examples of that style and less ironic than say, DK2 and All-Star Batman, which I don't find well-written at all (well, parts of DK2 worked for me but not many). 300 is in that style too and I think it generally works except for the occasional weirdness of what Alan Moore called 'hard-boiled Spartans.' His general themes haven't changed, of course, but I find his quality of writing has gone way downhill (except for his Sin City work which I still enjoy and find to be well-executed).

His writing and direction have mainly gone unchanged... It's the dialogue! Terrible terrible dialogue! So he's putting on an act? And the trite speech is part of the act? Still no excuse. We want skillfully planned speech, not realistic high school diatribe. It reads like he just took a tape recorder and a kid Robin's age and said "Now let's roleplay this retarded Batman script, eh kiddo?"
And why does Vicki Vale have to repeat herself so much? Besides the obvious answer that she's not meant to be very bright.

adamswish

08:41 / 22.09.05

or it could be a method of portraying a very, very shocking series of events.

Just a thought but how intelligent would your/our speech be if:

a) we've just been rescued/kidnapped by a big bloke dressed like a bat after witnessing your parents brutal, brutal (sorry couldn't resist) murder, oh and those cops you were always told were the good guys, well they're not;

b) you've just come too after crashing a priceless Rolls Royce while watching a terrible crime in progress, not to mention being an eye-witness to a double murder, oh and saw a glimpse of a bloke dressed as a bat. Add to that quite a lot of bloodloss.

I imagine even Oscar Wilde wouldn't of been able to of come up with anything more than "Fuck me!"

This Sunday

09:00 / 22.09.05

I know have to go to bed with vivid visions of:

Batman: "I'm the goddamn Batman."
Wilde (as portrayed by Stephen Fry): "Fuck me!"

Drawn in the style of Peter Cheung cartoons.

With Quitely and Morrison's ASS waiting in the wings.

My response is something like "Oh God!" but I'm not sure if it's a happy 'Oh God!' or a terrified one; will have to sleep on it.

The comic will never be as joycore and lovely as the threads is spawns.

Sudden thought: Jill Thompson needs to illustrate a Barbara Kesel written Allstar Wonder Woman! Then, shall the trinity be complete, and once all three series are read: the internet cracks when they reveal the hidden cross-company resurrection of Clint Not-from-MASH Barton!

The Falcon

12:04 / 22.09.05

Well, that's not going to happen, 'cos Geoff 'You Must Know His Face' Johns is writing it. Terry Dodson art, iirc.

Aertho

12:17 / 22.09.05

They've already got All-Star WW - Perez's initial run is collected in trades now.

Wordy shit, but excellent. Diana's all over the place, and has believable enemies. She even summarizes succinctly what separates her from Superman, and other superheroes. She lives to inspire all kinds of growth and promote all kinds of peace, whereas Superman enforces status quo and guards against injustice.

Still, ever since Mr. Fear suggestd a RIP ROARING Diana, I've been intrigued. Maybe if the setup was like a one-woman War of the Gods or something.

LDones

12:37 / 22.09.05

I'd say hands down the best Wonder Woman I've read in ages was in Darwyn Cooke's New Frontier.

That sequence with the Cambodian captives where she towers over Superman is Grade A. Flying deliriously into an airstrip in her invisible plane with a cockpit drenched in her own blood, and later slapping dinosaurs in the face with steel girders also rank up there.

New Frontier nailed pretty much everybody, I felt, All Star takes all round.

rabideyemovement

14:36 / 22.09.05

Hell yes, New Frontier was the most refreshing DC story told in a long while. There is a book to do a sequel to. Darwyn Cooke knows DC. And he's plotted some really good JLU cartoons too.

H3ct0r L1m4

17:16 / 22.09.05

I'M THE GAWDAMN BATMAN, GAWDAMMIT!

was the panel above a remixed parody? or another example of Miller's written macho irony turning his work into a caricature of his past glory?

I hated the SIN CITY movie because Rodriguez didn't edit out any of that ridiculous stuff. as far as caricature goes...

Billuccho!

18:06 / 22.09.05

Well, that's not going to happen, 'cos Geoff 'You Must Know His Face' Johns is writing it. Terry Dodson art, iirc.

Hughes art. Dodson, I believe, will be drawing Regular Wonder Woman.

The Falcon

23:27 / 22.09.05

Hughes denies art duties.

Anyway, Geoff Johns fans, something else to look forward to!

p.s.

I love the book. And my appreciation of it reaches sublime levels when I see that it has not failed to disgust the Whedon- & Millar-nerds.

Damn, that's something!

FinderWolf

12:48 / 02.11.05

SuperChix from DK2 revisited -- Miller's variant cover for #3, starring Black Canary. Yikes.

FinderWolf

12:57 / 02.11.05

Note the new redesigned costume featuring bellybutton canary cut-out. Similarly, yikes.

FinderWolf

15:05 / 03.11.05

I can't believe this pic prompted no comments.

This Sunday

15:14 / 03.11.05

Right, then.
Gasp. Shudder. YOU CAN SEE HER NAVEL!
I die now.

Alright, no, it just doesn't work. I'm sorry but aside from being another hole-in-a-woman's-costume is there some shudder-inducing, comment-begging issue at hand here? Did I miss something? It's Black Canary; is a navel-bird-cutout any more *whatever* than the blonde wig and fishnets?

Warewullf

15:58 / 03.11.05

Nice trout-pout. Leslie Ash would be jealous.

FinderWolf

16:24 / 03.11.05

I wasn't looking for specific comments on the navel so much as just curious to hear people's impressions of the pic itself. I'm not crazy about it, I think it looks kind of ridiculous and not very well-drawn, kind of a medicore Sin City drawing being shoehorned onto the Batman world. But move along, I was just trying to spur discussion (and make fun of a bad pic), no biggie.

The Falcon

22:49 / 03.11.05

"Chaykin, eat yr. heart out."

Like that?

The Falcon

22:52 / 03.11.05

Actually on second thought, Finder, given that you're not going to be reading the rest of this, can we (that is, those of us who thought #2 was the BOMB) be spared your received opinion on it?

That'd be a treat.

This Sunday

09:36 / 04.11.05

I'm I the only one who prefers the Miller covers?
I know I can't be the only one enjoying the series. The Bat-take.
Reminds me of something the director of one of the Harlock animes said, about how, to kids Harlock seems very mature and solid and adult... but looking at him with adult eyes, you realize he's just a big kid trying to look tough and play. Batman is what you'd do at eight if you'd had a horrible trauma to avenge, a couple billion dollars, and the body of Rocky Horror. In a fetish suit with bat-ears.
Robin/Dick is just canny enough to see through the illusion. At this point, all he sees is through the veil, though, and not the potency *of the veil.*
Hoping for a transition somewhere along the line, showing the grim Bats to be a smiley, violent child beneath it all. Cue: 'Dark Knight Strikes Again'

FinderWolf

13:48 / 04.11.05

I thought the Robin cover to #2 was pretty good, actually.

(for the record, I will be reading these...in the store. Unless I like what I read enough to plunk down the dough... But I understand your feeling that those who don't read a given book shouldn't complain about it.) The idea that only people who like the book (or various covers) should post in this thread seems a little weird to me. I haven't seen that attitude on Barbelith before.

FinderWolf

13:58 / 04.11.05

However, I realize now that you were probably emphasizing the 'if you don't read it, don't gripe about it' thing and not asking for only people who like the book to post in the thread, which I definitely understand. Apologies if I misconstrued your tone.

Tim Tempest

14:05 / 04.11.05

Ok, I read the first two issues, and I feel like I'm missing something, so I just need to have one question answered:

Is Batman's new secret identity Marv?

The Falcon

17:16 / 04.11.05

Hahahahahahahhahahahaha.

No.

FinderWolf

20:18 / 04.11.05

I do love that worked-up Solo Adam West cover Falconer showed above, with Bats uttering the now-immortal line.

yawn - thing's buddy

12:55 / 30.11.05

scored this title the day cos:

1. Its wintertime and comics are best in winter

2. THAT panel LOL!!!

FinderWolf

13:53 / 30.11.05

#3 isn't out today, is it?

yawn - thing's buddy

14:06 / 30.11.05

not in Glasgow, Jockland anyway.

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