BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Frank Miller, Jim Lee: The Goddamn Batman

 
  

Page: 1 ... 678910(11)

 
 
This Sunday
22:32 / 30.11.07
I want the goddammed Batman to go beat up most of the CBR forum. And Black Canary to go around kicking anyone who called her a skank. Or posted in an Avengers thread how they'd love to buy a copy of the video of Tigra getting messed up.

Ahem

Right, now that that's out of my system, and I Byrne-stole the issue: I liked the new one. I don't want to sound like a Miller apologist, because I don't feel like one. I liked the ripped new why-isn't-anything-funny-I-love-you Joker, the sociological potential of the Green Lantern tech and Bats batty batty behaviour. I think I'll buy it next time I'm by the shop. I mean, a superhero book where the two heroes meet and don't smack each other around before realizing it was a mistake? Man on woman violence where I didn't for a moment feel I was expected to step into the man's shoes feeling all tingly? A kid who, despite being bright and capable, is still just a kid?

I don't like that I somehow convinced myself this issue would wrap up the first storyline, but heck, they have to stop for a trade and a breather around twelve, right? Isn't the word on the street that this project's over somewhere in the near future anyhow?

And, I don't like the Joker tattoo just 'cause it's superfluous. Or that Vale, Olsen, and Alfred are who knows where, but those are going to be smoother in a trade, I think.

I can't believe this thing's being written as single issues. Okeh, yeah, single issues equal a disposable entertainment, but goddammit these are instantaneously disposable unless you've got a fair run of them to piece the vignettes into something approaching movement.
 
 
PatrickMM
05:10 / 02.12.07
For those of you wondering about the trade, apparently June 2008 is the release date. May 2008 sees the release of the Ressurection of Ra's al Ghul TPB, which leaves me wondering when the Grant and JH Williams Batman arc will see trade. Either way, right now I'm more excited to finally get a taste of the Goddamn Batman. Shame it'll take six months to get it.
 
 
deviant
18:28 / 02.12.07
hello i was reading few of them this week end.
i still dont understand why everyone is so shocked with the godamn thing ,sorry i dont understand.it seems that frank will always find a way to make people talk...
 
 
SetFree
01:56 / 03.12.07
I really like the Jokers tattoo, it ties him into his mafioso persona yakuza style. He was always a psychopath and a murderer, but whenever he was doing those well he was also probably running most of gotham, and anyone of you that knows gotham knows its the crime-bosses and batman bidding for control. And I think it adds a level of style, Jokers always been a fashionable maniac. My favorite part about the whole run is that it shows how miller saw these guys in their primes, not grizzeled and making a comeback from anonimity. And the cold, quietly psychotic and extremely dangerous joker goes along with the joker from the dark knight runs. Also, I like seeing batman enjoying himself, I always thought the brooding was just for show.
 
 
Spaniel
08:19 / 03.12.07
RAMBLE POST!

Well, I think people have been moaning about the Goddamn Batman for a variety of reasons. For a start the character simply doesn't look much like the one we're used to - and in the world of Fanboyareenia that counts for rather a lot, especially when the reimagining is extreme as the one Millar's painting. Then there's the story itself, for which the word whimsical could well have been invented. Add to that the rather awkward politics of the piece - this is a guy who really enjoys beating the shit out of people - and the to my mind not unreasonable accusations of misogyny, and we're looking at a book with something to challenge everyone.

Nnnh, buuuut, I gotta say, I'm starting to like this book. Sure, I could probably do without the Joker fucking then killing a woman, but like DD says, the scene itself didn't feel particularly sexy, or like an attempt at supplying vicarious thrills. In fact it was really rather horrid. And, you know, if you're going to do that kind of thing in funny books, it bloody well aught to be horrid.

The things that's working for me, though, is the singularity of the vision. Millar knows who the fuck these characters are, and he knows exactly how they should all relate to each other, and who fucking cares if it doesn't look much like anything anyone else is doing with 'em these days. Batman and Robin feel like they actually have a relationship here. The Joker feels like a genuine threat (in world where Batman can take on the JLA - clever writing that can pull that off) and not like an over used borecore buffoon.

And yeah, it's all a bit extreme and absurd and loose, but by God it has energy. You want to read it just to see where it's going to take you today. It feels like it's alive, unlike soooooo much of the tired, anti-fun that DC is so determined to foist on us today.
 
 
_Boboss
08:58 / 03.12.07
this last issue was pretty good I thought - the mania seems to be on the wane, but then i realised i was actually watching batman's personality grow and change before my eyes, and that's something that i've seen very rarely in the bat-billions of issues that i've read n my life.

the portrayal of the joker was excellent, and will have better legs than the morrison reboot in all likelihood - the internal monologue was a little cliched (will prove easy to imitate), but interesting in that it posits the joker's beef to be a matter of how he relates to the city, much as bats' often is. i was creeped out by the mention of child molesting actually - made me think about the other henchman from dark knight, the babyman milk-smelling one? i really, really don't want to see the joker play his part in that guy's secret origin. good too that he's not lke a superstar supervillain at this stage, but young, libidinous and ambitious - maybe not even crazy yet. he looks proper gangster-lean in that shot where he's walking out the hotel room - sane, capable, dangerous, fucking styling too - miller's really got the hang of writing to lee's strengths i think. (but, all that 'crush the larynx so the neighbours don't hear' stuff? a bit pointless when bruno swastika tits is hanging outside your room waiting for you to finish wiping your knob on the bedsheet. although yes, she might not have been there the whole time.)

and elsewhere, yeah okay, i buy that, that sounds like a plausible explanation of where robin gets his name and costume from. this book's not so crazy after all.

and the jordan interlude was very amusing - gets us back into crazy territory too - any book that can have that sequence in the same issue as the nasty joker murder bit is taking some wild tonal swings with the kind of verve that is enough to get anyone else fired from dc these days, apparently.

boboss, care to run down the misogyny accusations here? the only scene that's coming to mind is the one where black canary kicks in a lod#ad of guys making sexist comments to her, but i've not read any of the early issues for ages so...

(oh yeah, i remember oh god the vicki vale cheesecake stuff. forget i asked...)
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:10 / 03.12.07
There's also the Wonder Woman stuff, which is... I dunno, the tone of this book is so demented that it's hard to see if it's misogyny or just lunacy. All that "MEN. MEN. THEY DISGUST ME. THEY ARE WEAK." stuff went beyond Wonder-Woman-as-parody-of-man-hating-feminist and into the same "is he taking the piss?" realm as the rest of it. I mean there's definitely some pretty horrible, lurid running themes ("GOTHAM CITY IS A WHORE!"), and interviews Miller has given in the past don't make him seem like a guy with a great sense of humour, and yet, and yet... Count me in the camp that can't help but enjoy this comic, even if I don't exactly like it, per se.
 
 
Spaniel
09:39 / 03.12.07
Yeah, that's about it on the misogyny front. It's the tone - the endless titty leggy ladies, the strange Wonder Woman stuff, the presence of those slurs in the Black Canary arse kicking scene, a sexy sexy woman fucked then slain. But of course there's the other stuff - the hyper assertive, I can kick any man's arse and have sex with the GODDAMN BATMAN because I want to have sex with the GODDAMN BATMAN stuff, the "men are weak and pathetic!" stuff, the Catwoman as a proper nemesis stuff, that muddies the water somewhat.

When I said I thought the accusation wasn't unreasonable, I didn't mean that I'm jumping to make it, just that I'd be prepared to give it time.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
11:22 / 03.12.07
Also still enjoying this, even if Frank's yet to equal the Wonder Woman issue, IMVHO.

But, I've got huge reservations about the way Robin's being handled. All right, the kid had to be included, we're not really supposed to be taking this odd mix of ultraviolence, black humour and camp that seriously, and Bruce is meant to be a bit unhinged, not to say megalomaniacal, but even so, the idea that anyone, however demented, would consider soaring across the rooftops with a pre-teen in a place like Gotham is a bit much to swallow.

Miller just about got away with this in Dark Knight by not really going into it; Robin just appeared, more or less, then got swept along by events, but here, where the whole dynamic's being picked over in more detail, it seems like a craziness too far.

And lines like 'the kid's a born detective', who can apparently pinpoint Alfred's accent to South Kensington, aren't really helping much with the suspension of disbelief.

It would have been a bit of a cheat I suppose, he's the Boy Wonder after all, but I can't help thinking it might have been better if Miller had aged him up to at least fifteen, as in the recent, and pretty much wholly convincing, reworking of Bucky in Captain America at the moment. It might not have been as funny, but there are enough laughs in this at is.

Also, how's it going to go over with the embryonic JLA;

'You, Hal, are as dumb as a sackful of spanners, Clark, you're a punk-ass virgin in the body of a god, and you Diana ... should be wearing a mask'

'Well maybe, at least we're not running round town with a twelve year old boy ...'

I suppose we'll see, and to be fair, Bruce hasn't actually taken his youthful protege out crime-fighting yet, but 'the little snot' does jar a bit, all the same.
 
 
_Boboss
12:31 / 03.12.07
backing up a sec, i think i'm more convinced by the idea that there's a willfully take no prisoners blunderbuss touch to any issue that this book approaches that makes analysis from social and political perspectives difficult, and even makes you feel that by doing so you're offering yourself up as the book's target, falling into some kind of wanker trap that the tank has laid for your wet, spineless snivelling liberal sensitivities to jigger themselves in. i think (but have no ready examples) this is a tactic often used by the coulterish american right - say something obscene that panders to yours and your audiences worst sadistic prejudices, accept the cheers, but then when called on it smirk as of to say 'you didn't think i was serious there? jeebers, get with the program already, hippy'

my instinct is that the object of ire here, and the hal's emerald attack twat-baiting sequence is the best proof of this, is anyone who takes their tissues of signs* too seriously, be they rabies drooling fanboy or manhating feminazi. all are fair candidates for a warning shot from the overheated tank.

i love the idea of alfred hanging out among the bongs and rave wear of kensington market, plucking up the courage to go shop in urban outfitters. (i've not been to kensington in years, have no idea if either of those places are still there.)

*although not the cum-knotted and nosebleed-slathered tissue that is the war on terror, i'm guessing - though bats' slight softening in the latest ish may even be a sign of rethink there.
 
 
Spaniel
12:35 / 03.12.07
AG, see for me it's the other way round. I don't see the Batman and Robin relationship framed within a wacky comic - and if I did I'd probably come to the conclusion that you have, that the book would need to be significantly more mad for me to buy it - rather I see the Batman and Robin relationship as the frame for the rest of the story. It's the yardstick by which the GODDAMN BATMAN's crazy capers are measured against - it defines what constitutes crazy caperdom within the book's pages, and it tells you absolutely everything you need to know about just how barmy this particular incarnation of Batman is.

This ain't a guy who takes criticism, by the way. Sure, the rest of 'em could go on at him about running around with a kid, but I don't imagine it would register on his give-a-shit-o-meter. He's the GODDAMN BATMAN afterall. He can do whatever he likes.
 
 
Spaniel
12:56 / 03.12.07
GB, that trap only works if you're actually engaging with speshul right wing twuncecommando fules in the first place. It's context dependified, innit?

Here, on the soft huggy shores of the 'lith, we are free to ask bold questions without being called unrealistic, unserious humour voids.
 
 
_Boboss
13:13 / 03.12.07
well yes, but debate does occur outside of barbelith too. i'm not worried about the fact that I think there's probably something a bit dodge about the arse shots of vicki vale, or of wonder woman attending a meeting in a raincoat (i.e naked underneath, in tankspeak) and loving it when supes floors her, but frank is i think using this device to give himself a bit of an out in the event of such criticism.
 
 
This Sunday
13:31 / 03.12.07
I would imagine that Miller and Lee probably don't consider a ass-shot to be detrimentally hateful in the way spending some loving extra shots on Joker's scene could have been. It's not entirely a defense, but it's not on the same level as well, a lot of things. It'd balance things out a bit if Alfred wasn't the only sexysexy pandering in the book on the male side, but... maybe it's just me, the ass-shot and the underwear bits aren't as upsetting as unnecessary or OOC whininess, shrillness, or shrieky terror like we've been seeing from other books of late.

And Wonder Woman's meant to be hyper-BDSM under the Millerscope, yeah? So she'd have to be dominant/submissive and shifting from disgust/lust under that angle. I'm not so much taken aback with WW's portrayal there as I am with Supes' part in that dynamic. It's not making either of them come off superclean parental figures, or entirely healthy, but it is in keeping with an extreme condensing of their unique elements, in relation to Batman and Miller.

I'm not sold that there isn't a misogynistic angle under all this, or slowly coming to fore, but I'm not seeing the hints as close to the surface as some other folks are. Though I would like to see some balancing of the body-presentation ethos and politics.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:44 / 03.12.07
it's not on the same level as well, a lot of things

Well, you can't argue with that!
 
 
krakaboom
20:31 / 07.04.08
ALLSTAR10VARIANT
 
 
FinderWolf
01:46 / 08.04.08
Quite lovely -- distinctly FQ, yet it still has echoes of Jim Lee's visual approach (and some of Miller as well). Well done. The Robin is particularly fun.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
22:21 / 09.04.08
Makes Robin look twice as ridiculous, which is awesome.

New wallpaper for a while, I think...
 
 
PatrickMM
05:34 / 10.09.08
She's the fucking Batgirl! Text every friend you've got shitheads indeed, I'm glad to see the slightly more reality based #9 hasn't taken the series' insanity away. I like GM's Batman, but it can't match Frank Miller vomiting his mind right onto the page with this series.

As a side note, why do they even print the words they're going to black out? And, wow, Frank Miller sure loves the word cunt.
 
 
ghadis
06:29 / 10.09.08
Wow, he sure does. Especially combined with the word, jailbait. And he's still obsessed with people getting cut into slices, sweet, sweet slices.
 
 
Spaniel
07:54 / 10.09.08
I like GM's Batman, but it can't match Frank Miller vomiting his mind right onto the page with this series.

Lol.

What tickles me is that the two biggest bat-titles are both slathered in barminess. Batman, of course, being the idiot's really real superhero.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
10:33 / 10.09.08
Batcunt.

Hnnh.

Ladies and gentleman....Frank 'The Tank' Miller.
 
 
Spaniel
11:04 / 10.09.08
Nice.

I'm sure I read somewhere that Miller would like to direct TDKR and install Sly Stallone in the lead.

Someone make that happen. Please.
 
 
hachiman
11:13 / 10.09.08
Actually that was Robert Rodrigues, on what other comix he'd like to adapt for the big screen.

Apparently Sly was all "'Ey, yo, we should toadally do that".

I'm not enjoying ASBR, but it is really hard to stop looking at, sorta like a multi-car pile-up.

Ah well, the price of Fatbeardism.
 
 
Spaniel
17:50 / 10.09.08
That's 'cause it is a multi-car pile up.
 
  

Page: 1 ... 678910(11)

 
  
Add Your Reply