This is quite hopelessly going to go in circles but I'll bother responding one more time hoping you won't miss the point and go on another rant. See, you take three paragraphs to say absolutely nothing other than "You're a moron. Write a longer post. I think you're conspirating against me with other 'lithers. Dark Knight Returns needs no defence, you bring yours."
Obviously DKR is a well respected work in the medium and the majority disagrees with me about the quality of the work. I have no problem with your attachment to Miller/DKR so I wonder what bothers you about my quick dismissal of it. I thought this wasn't Newsarama where people got into silly fist-fights because someone didn't think Spawn fukkin rul3d.
/It's a discussion board. Me asking you to explain why you make a pretty contentious statement, that Frank Miller's writing on DKR is of a poor standard, does not mean I see myself as the Barbelith authority everyone should kowtow to./
Excuse me? Do you actually remember three minutes after you say it? To remind you as you like forgetting whatever crap you post, I will not climb any of your imaginary mountains to please you.
And perhaps it doesn't mean you see yourself as an Authority, I concede this much. You're a bit paranoid aren't you? There's no conspiracygangbang coming your way, you're just a nutter.
/I have, quite clearly, acknowledged your opinion. I'd be prepared to take it on board and modify my own opinion of Miller's writing on DKR -- if you could argue with any competence why his work on that book was of a bad standard./
No, I was not arguing anything. To make an argument I would have to get all riled up, go read the book again. Which is why my posts were direct, short and made my feelings clear. If I cared, I would post quotes from it, something requires a lot of time that would accomplish what? Have a sound argument with YOU? something that I wasn't interested making in the first place? Get over yourself. I'm regretting that I'm allowing you this much thought already and this post is longer than yours. Something I was hoping to avoid. I think I'm old enough to have my say on something and not told by someone senile that I need to go back and do a show-and-tell that satisfies them.
/Sadly, that seems to be beyond you./
Sure, think what's comforting.
Sadly, you belong in John Byrne's forum.
/Why Batman left for ten years, and why Miller brought him back because he wants him in his "outfit", is a totally different point. Without looking at DKR, I could tell you why I think Batman comes back as Batman. I think it's explained convincingly in terms of character. Bruce Wayne is depicted as someone who has a beast inside him that won't go away; he's not satisfied, he's still seeking something he was trying to repress and forget, and one night the memories of his parents' death, combined with the horrors he witnesses while flicking around news channels, push him back over that line./
NO.
It was poorly done, the bit with the wolf howling and Batman's monolog as he stares at the moon half naked qualifies in my book as crap. Don't hold your breath for an "argument."
/On a basic level, there would be no book if Miller didn't want Batman back in that "outfit" -- if you buy DKR you are accepting that it's a story about Batman returning, so to sneer at the fundamental concept of him getting his costume on again seems kind of strained. I don't think it came across as a far-fetched plot point, that Miller decided Batman would give up his retirement and hit the streets once more. The title does give it away./
This paragraph is a veil to conceal what I thought was an unconvincing and was not executed well at all. I say no, you say yes. By saying Yes fifteen times, in fifteen boring ways in unnecessary sentences, you're not making an argument. A competent argument (which is something you're shooting for, I am not) does not constitute of blabberings of Yes, camouflaging stupid thoughts and overdose of repetitiveness like yours.
/What's your point? Burgess invented some teen slang, Miller invented some teen slang -- or, as I remember reading once, Varley reported some genuine teen slang to Miller, who incorporated it in the story./
I guess she was also out of her mind when her report had anything to do with real life.
/Maybe you prefer Nadsat...does that make DKR a failure,/
I do not prefer it, you should read out that out loud to anyone and try the same with Nadsat, see how people take both.
/a case study in bad writing? Clockwork Orange is built on its language. DKR features some characters using a street argot. They are not really comparable./
I was NOT (I hope the shift button helps you) comparing works, I'm getting a bit irritated at how utterly stupid your thoughts are. Burgess invented NADSAT, Miller invented crapslang for their respective works. That's where the the comparison began and ended. By suggesting that Miller's book had lesser to do with language, does not make his slang any less frightful. It reads like a copout. And yes, they are comparable on that level.
/Your cackhanded use of sarcasm makes it hard to know exactly what your problem is with Miller. "Oh, yeah, Batman comes out of retirement, that's stellar. Right, teen slang, that's just what we needed." I get the message that you didn't really think it was stellar, and that teen slang apparently wasn't what the book needed -- but I don't see how the Mutant's speech patterns hurt the book in any fundamental way, or what was needed if this was a bad idea. You're just sulking around without really communicating anything specific except a general dislike./
They didn't hurt the book in a fundmental way but they added to, in MY MIND, Miller's failure as a writer to produce something that could impress ME.
/Firstly, if you feel that strongly I think it's pathetic that you've given up so easily, with "yeah I could give you loads of examples but I don't remember anything else". I expect the "yeah I would destroy your argument, but you're not worth my time and I have a life" line next./
No, I will not under any circumstances read DKR anytime soon because I shan't be wasting my time on it a third time. Resultantly, If you feel that my "argument" about DKR(one more time: I'm not making one, you have it in your head)is weak, start congratulating yourself. Oh wait, you've been doing that already.
/I'm not saying you have to be able to do better than a creator in order to have any issues with their work, because I can't draw as well as professional comic artists yet still feel free to criticise them -- but when you're dissing Miller in his medium, of words, and using words so hopelessly that your basic meaning doesn't come across, it doesn't help you./
Surely, disinterest can also be interpreted as say...lack of interest as opposed to failing with words? Whatever happened to "sometimes people mean what they say"? It's a bit hopeless for you to be on a message board where you're unable to see anybody's point and foggy up their thought balloons with incessant blabbering.
/I don't think you're being well-mannered, and I don't think I'm being rude. /
I think somebody quickly confirmed my statement so I shan't bother with this one.
And this took a while. I've had my say, feel free to be more petty if you like, I'll be checking to see if Barbelith has an ignore option for your posts. |
