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Frank Miller, Jim Lee: The Goddamn Batman

 
  

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Mr Tricks
23:04 / 07.02.05
Doesn't the glove-fins-as-blades tie back to some OLD Neal Adams concept art and design ideas?
 
 
FinderWolf
16:38 / 09.02.05
Little blurb from Miller over on Newsarama...he doesn't say much, other than that it's his "Year Three."
 
 
FinderWolf
23:14 / 19.03.05
LA WizardWorld Newsarama coverage sez:

- On a quick All-Star note, Berganza said All-Star Batman and Robin with Frank Miller and Jim Lee will be more than 6 issues.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:41 / 11.04.05
Well, it seems DC has decided to jettison Jim Lee's new-fangled costume designs for Bats & Dick in favor of a straight, classic 70s look - unless the characters' costumes will grow and change as the story goes on.
Newsarama has the pencils for the covers of All-Star Batman & Robin #1:

http://www.newsarama.com/DC/Jul05/Jul_BatmanDC.htm

Too bad, I rather liked the hood on Robin's cape (and his cape being green not black).
 
 
John Octave
16:37 / 11.04.05
Too bad about the return of short-pants/elf booties Robin, too.
 
 
Mario
19:03 / 11.04.05
It's Miller's Robin origin (think of this as BATMAN: YEAR THREE). . They aren't jettisoning the new costumes, he just hasn't gotten to them yet.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:21 / 12.05.05
Miller says in the DC house-ads-your mole at DC page: "This one's gonna have lots of babes in it!" Umm, ok Frank.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
04:58 / 14.05.05
I'm interested in this book because I like Miller's work. It puts me in a minority, but the Dark Knight sequel was my favorite Batman story in ages, and I like his "Mickey Spillane" style, which it sounds like he is writing this series in.

But I'm ALSO in a minority because I feel Jim Lee is a horrid storyteller, and his art is nearly impossible for me to get through. Everyone in his books looks like a cat has scratched their faces all to hell, and has NO fluid movement, but instead stock poses that look good first glance, and for shit when you have to actually LOOK at them.

Still, it'll be better than the crap they are shoving in the Batman comics lately. Next time someone proposes another big multi-part crossover, they need to be forced to read "Knightfall"...which would be a violation of the Geneva Conventions, I guess, but Fuck It, we're Americans, and if we have to send them to Egypt to do it, it would be worth it to prevent another "War Games".
 
 
Benny the Ball
17:17 / 14.05.05
"Miller says in the DC house-ads-your mole at DC page: "This one's gonna have lots of babes in it!" Umm, ok Frank." I thought he liked men?

I agree about Jim Lee, I've never really liked his art, and Hush highlighted this more than anything.

I do like Miller though, and I too really enjoyed DKSB.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:56 / 14.05.05
>> Everyone in his books looks like a cat has scratched their faces all to hell

LOL. I like Lee's work but not crazy about it, it's slick and 'kewl' and looks decent on first glance but not very substantive. Definitely the best of the Image-style artists that came out of the 80s, although that's not saying all that much, though.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:24 / 06.06.05
from comic con news this past weekend: (not very much news here but kinda fun that Miller wanted "The Boy Wonder" to be in the title:

>> In regards to the title of All-Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder, Didio said that the “Boy Wonder” aspect was there due to Frank Miller’s insistence. For Miller, Didio said, ASB&RTBW (phew) is unofficially his version of Batman: Year Two, and it will focus on the relationship between Batman and Dick Grayson, and show how the addition of partner affects Bruce Wayne’s life and outlook on the world.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:50 / 08.07.05
Big new interview with Miller on this at Newsrama.

Fun quote:

the title is definitely Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder. I love having my name on something called that. I always loved the “Boy Wonder” line, before he was turned into the Teen Wonder, and almost a “Grim Robin.” But I just love the idea of a young Robin. That’s why I created Carrie Kelly in Dark Knight - I just loved the contrast between this stocky, tough, dark adult, and a colorful little pixie running around.

Also – if you’re older than 12, are you going to come up wit that costume?

NRAMA: So Robin chose the outfit?

FM: Do you think Bruce would?

NRAMA: Now that you mention it, not really.

FM: Robin creates “Robin,” essentially.

NRAMA: How much so in that regard? Does Bruce even give him the name, or is all of this Dick’s creation?

FM: It’s Dick’s. Bruce hadn’t thought this thing through enough, given that he was somewhat “forced” to take Robin in before he – both Bruce, and Dick – were ready. Bruce is clearly winging it. This is a young Batman who’s trying to figure out what he’s doing. He’s got all the cool toys – he’s got the Batmobile, and is building the cave, but he’s this bachelor. He can solve any murder you want him to, disguise himself as anyone in the world, but handling a kid? That’s kind of outside his purview – somewhere outside of what he trained himself for. So he’s struggling with the whole thing, and it comes down to Robin to pick the identity that he has. I don’t want to reveal it, but it’s pretty cool, the reason he’s called “Robin.” I worked on it for a while, and I don’t want to reveal it now, but I’m pretty happy with it.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:55 / 08.07.05
also:

NRAMA: Speaking to that, as you and Jim are looking at it, this is still pretty much open-ended?

FM: The last we talked, I told him that we were sailing past the originally projected six issues, and no one seems to mind. He’s on, I’m on, and we’re going to take this as long as we can. This is back like when we were doing Born Again in Daredevil – we had no idea how many issues it was going to be. It was originally supposed to be four, and then ended up being more than 200 pages long.

and, about the supposedly titled BATMAN: HOLY WAR ('Batman vs. terrorists' is the pitch) written and drawn by Miller coming up...

>> NRAMA: Lastly, is this the only Batman for the foreseeable future? At one point, you were working on a Batman/terrorist story…

FM: I’m 120 pages into the inks on that, and am working on it concurrently. That will probably be a single piece, somewhere around 150-200 pages long.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:43 / 12.07.05
The first review of any kind is in, from buzzscope (formerly popcultureshock.com):

>> ALL-STAR BATMAN & ROBIN, THE BOY WONDER #1

Sad news #1: We can't show you anything from this book until tomorrow (and by then you'll already have your grubby hands on it) but we'll put up a couple pages first thing in the morning. Sad news #2: We've read it, and we were unanimously disappointed. Was this just because our expectations were too high? Judge for yourself tomorrow boys & girls and come back and tell us how wrong we were. (Or not).
 
 
FinderWolf
03:15 / 14.07.05
no reviews for this yet? I was surprised to see it came out in the shop today; thought it was due next week.

It's pretty mediocre -- four pages of T & A Vicky Vale shots by Jim Lee, with a few especially gratuitous shots (the worse is a close up of her ass, you heard it right)... a few twists on Dick Graysons' parents deaths (his parents get shot by thug after making a safe landing instead of falling to their deaths from cut rope, plus Dick falls and saves himself dramatically with a wire he throws a la a Batarang/grappling wire thingie). I don't like the new "G" Grayson circus outfits - they just seem garish and ugly. everytime someone re-tells Robin's origin they have to re-design the Graysons' circus outfits, I guess...

the Miller first person narration is a bit tired here. Hopefully things get better with issue 2.
 
 
rabideyemovement
05:22 / 14.07.05
This was unspectacular. Miller's writing is stale. Jim Lee's art decent, but nothing great. The twist on the Graysons' murders was lame. I liked it better when they fell to their deaths. Speaking of falling, do all acrobats carry grappling hooks on them when they perform?
I was expecting something more from this. If the next issue delivers better fare, someone tell me, but I don't plan on picking it up for now.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
12:22 / 14.07.05
Not unspectacular. PURE SHITE. Seriously, this was a joke, right? Lee'sartwork was a shorrid and uninspired as I feared, and Miller's writing...well, actually where was Miller's writing? Maybe there's a random 'grit' generating machine that did this pice of stale hackwork. Bear in mind this is supposedly 'Year Two' of Batman's career. Compare it (inevitably) to Year One. Do you see? I hated this.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
13:03 / 14.07.05
Yeah, but, dude. "On your feet, soldier."

THAT WAS AWESOME.

Other than that, yeah, not that great.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
14:05 / 14.07.05
Hope he doesn't have Batman beat Robin's ass for being gay ala Dark Knight Strikes Back.
 
 
superdonkey
14:19 / 14.07.05
99% awful.
 
 
COBRAnomicon!
14:49 / 14.07.05
The Vicki Vale cheesecake scenes were just cinema verite. Whenever I'm working on an article, I do it by stalking around my house in my underwear, dictating into a headset. And I make a point of brandishing my ass at anyone available.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
00:44 / 15.07.05
Terrible.

The art was nauseatinglu unimaginative and the writing just plain poor. I'm still very confused about who the market is. Kids? Non-fans? New fans? Fetishists??

Seriously, could someone clear this up for me because I must be dim.

1. The ham-fisted writing of Miller about the 'bad cops' of Gotham made my eyes roll.
2. The fact that several pages of a woman pacing about her apartment in her underwear bored me is troubling.
3. Characters dictating their own motivations is also troubling.
4. One page of Batman???
5. Bruce's "I've been watching him" remark on Robin was very creepy, esp. in a world apparently populated by rapists in positions of power.

Ugggghhh... I still have hope for All Star Superman, but I should have gone with my instincts and bought the New Avengers instead.
 
 
Axolotl
07:28 / 15.07.05
I have to agree. The whole thing was just really poor. I've not read any of Lee's comics before mainly because I don't like that style of art and judging by this comic I was right not to. Just really, really low quality - and who thought having more pages of cheesecake than pages of Batman was a good idea? Miller's writing was equally urrgh. The entire story made little sense - why take a date to your observation of a prospective superhero partner, especially if you've had him under observation anyway? Mister Six was right in saying Bruce's comment about watching Robin came off as creepy. The constant breaking of the "show, don't tell" rule of writing.
Just really really disappointing. I'm going to re-read Year One and think about how this should have been done.
 
 
gridley
14:44 / 15.07.05
Go on, Vicki, tell me one more time who you've got a date with... grrrr....
 
 
FinderWolf
15:30 / 15.07.05
oh, and you should have bought New Avengers this week Mister Six, cause although it's hardly brilliant, it is much better than Miller's first issue of this.
 
 
Planet B
20:46 / 15.07.05
I third the comments about "watching him". If an impartial observer in that world heard that, they'd probably think that Wayne was the one that had his parents killed so he could do whatever he was going to do with the Boy Wonder.

About the only thing I did enjoy was the last page.

I was also wondering if this was for mature audiences only after the uber-gratuitous Vale panels.

WTF?

I'm w/ Finder.. glad I had New Avengers, Memnevore and The Manhattan Guardian to wash away the bad taste.
 
 
The Falcon
08:24 / 17.07.05
No, it wasn't for mature audiences. American comics have sold caricatures of the female form to an audience unlikely to be in any position to touch a real one (be it for age, sexuality or, err, other reasons) for decades now.

This should hardly constitute a surprise. I'm kinda pro-cheesecake/fan-service, in part because it's such a lightning rod for not terribly interesting criticisms.

In all then: no, not very good. But what was really new about it? A few effects about the Robin origin, and hum-de-dum. The 'talent' caught me off guard on first read-through, and I thought Vicki was horrified, but actually no she wasn't. She was totally 'gone' on Bruce as in swept away, I see.
 
 
Benny the Ball
13:11 / 17.07.05
I'm regreting ordering this now. I can't stand Jim Lee's art at the best of times, but the preview pages I saw look terrible, and now this, it sounds awful! Oh well, it was only £2, I could have bought a tripple pack of Pineapple juice from Sommerfield, but that's okay.
 
 
Krug
19:47 / 17.07.05
I wasn't disappointed at all with this.

I already expected it to be complete shit.

Bring on All Stars Superman!
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
04:49 / 18.07.05
ewrgh! awful.

Mistersix nailed it right. not mentioning the shots of Robin's butt. why have this character as the reader's eyes if Vale is the one guiding us through this?

and hey, who would have known, she gets "bitchslapped"! jesus...

even HUSH might have been better than this crapfest. art and colours were awful as well. is this an Image book from '92? another missed opportunity.

Dave Laphan's Batman [the first issue, at least] was lightyears better than this. and ALL-STAR SUPERMAN is still very far... Morrison would have handled this so well.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:57 / 18.07.05
Jim Lee said at a recent con that he wasn't that happy with his art on issue 1 and said issue 2 was much better. We can only hope...but I think it's more dependent on whether the WRITING for issue 2 is better.
 
 
diz
21:03 / 19.07.05
i'll second that. i'm not a big Miller fan in general, to be honest, and this reads like a Random Frank Miller Generator. sad, boring, just kind of crap overall. probably not buying #2.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:37 / 20.07.05
>> Random Frank Miller Generator

Very true, good way to phrase it (I think someone else in this thread pointed out the same thing).

The cover(s) of the first issue are nice, at least...and that final page. That's about it.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
15:04 / 20.07.05
I pointed it out.
I'm the original and the best.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
15:06 / 20.07.05
Also: That final page. Why do people keep saying it's good. It's not. Lee can't do shadows for shit, and if I hear the old 'good soldier/war' stuff much more I'm going to explode. Played out.
 
  

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