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Moderating the Temple

 
  

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Alex's Grandma
23:07 / 17.11.07
Well, I was asked to fuck off, which can be a bit troubling; on the other hand, Mr Q, as you say, was pretty decent about it.

The thing is I do 'give a shit'; as someone who tunes in on a day-to-day basis I'm fairly heavily invested in Barbelith, so if it sometimes seems as if I'm being a mindless thug about the place, that's only because I wish it was a a bit more happening, really. If happening in a way that other board members may not enjoy. And none of this, pretty clearly, is going to stop you from wanting my user ID to burn in hell, I guess.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:28 / 17.11.07
I think 1am is probably not the best time to be processing all of this. Reconvene on Mon. with sense of perspective?
 
 
Quantum
08:24 / 18.11.07
Reading your responses, Glenn and Granny, I notice they have nothing to do with moderating the Temple, which is what this thread we are in is ostensibly about. Any discussion about what we want to do is getting swamped by you talking about how inappropriate the word 'Work' was or how we doubt your commitment to sparklebarbelith.
Please. Pretty please with a cherry and grotesque sexual favours on top. You spend more time in this thread than you do in the temple, why not hang out in the 'Moderating the switchboard' thread or something. I'm not telling you how to live your life, but from my perspective you are spoiling my enjoyment of the board by preventing me from talking about what I want to in the thread that is designed for it. By complaining and carping mostly about how we hate you.
I don't hate you. I am filled with an infinitely deep pool of love for you that is eternally refreshed and can never run dry, in ten thousand years from now on another plane of existence I will be composed of a billion sparks of sentient light and every one of them will love you. But please leave this thread alone.

Now, why don't you get your replies in so you feel you have had the last word or aren't being silenced or whatever you name the compulsion you have to post here, then politely move on. We can get back to our flower arranging tomorrow without interruption. I'm not going to engage any more, if you feel the need to continue commenting here I can't stop you, I've said my piece- I will put you on ignore and be done with it. I'd see that as a failure on your part to maintain basic courtesy though and I think you're both polite enough folk, so please.

Please.

Post in another thread.
 
 
Olulabelle
08:27 / 18.11.07
Alex, I really can't see how you can possibly think that telling the Temple moderators (who are heavily invested in the Temple) that the Temple should be removed from the rest of the board is in any way helpful or useful. Especially in a thread about how best to moderate the Temple, and especially to people who are also heavily invested in the rest of the board as a whole.
 
 
Olulabelle
08:29 / 18.11.07
Cross posted with Quants there. But what he said really.
 
 
electric monk
18:36 / 21.02.08
Pretty much where we left off, then. I have very little to add at this point.
 
 
Triplets
18:56 / 21.02.08
especially to people who are also heavily invested in the rest of the board as a whole.

I have to call you up on this statement. I have never, not once, seen darth daddy discuss Doctor Manhattan's cock, for instance. I'd say he's barely participating with the board at all. The same goes for the rest of the Templers. Not a bit of blue sausage talk among them.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:00 / 21.02.08
I talk about Dr. Manhattan's cock all the time!

In my sleep.
 
 
electric monk
00:32 / 22.02.08
OH HAI



MAH MANHOOD IZ THERMODYNAMIC MIRACLE!!!
 
 
Olulabelle
05:51 / 22.02.08
This just makes me want to scream. (Alex's posts, not Dr Manhattan's cock.)

Even with a charitable reading, Alex's post to Ev is at the very least lacking in substance, and basically was actually meant as a snide remark, although of course he'll deny that now. It does my head in. And then to say that my contributions to the Temple are pointless, well I might not be the brainiest person on the board but I actually do put a lot of thought into what I post, especially there.

I'm rapidly reaching the point where I'd rather not be here at all than have to continue to suffer Alex's constant bullshit.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:26 / 22.02.08
Not really much point discussing this, is there? The initial jab was minor but since it comes on top of a long history of windups including a fair chunk of windup directed Templewards it's going to irk people. This will be casually dismissed as the usual people picking on poor wee Alex, and round we go again.

I was going to leave it alone myself, not because I think it's okay for Alex to drop into a forum he's repeatedly taken pot-shots at soley for the purposes of sniping at random posters, but because it's pointless to try and fix the situation.

I'd recommend sticking Alex on ignore and not responding to him in thread when he inevitably does this again. I'm also going to put the kibosh on any delete requests for his material in future and I'd encourage other mods to do the same.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:13 / 22.02.08
Really? Without banning that's the only tool we have, really, for cleaning up the wee. I mean, it means the forum can operate evidentially, but it also means that a lot of foamy nonsense is just going to hang around...
 
 
Papess
15:46 / 22.02.08
You can always clean it up later when it is evidential value has run it's course. Although, that may be cumbersome. As an alternative, all AG's more bothersome posts could be transferred to a "special" thread.
 
 
Triplets
16:24 / 23.02.08
To be honest, it might be best for us all to take a step back and calm down. If Alex is guilty of anything it's bringing a sense of fun to this old place. Is bringing humour to barbelith a cause for offense now?

I think we should be wary of following the lead of a man (Jack F) who resembles Warren Ellis. In appearence or otherwise.
 
 
electric monk
18:34 / 23.02.08
If Alex is guilty of anything it's bringing a sense of fun to this old place.

I think the problems arise when Alex's desire for fun butts up against another member's desire for decent and thoughtful conversation, and I think showing up in a thread merely to take potshots at other members falls squarely under that heading. If Alex chose to balance out his "fun" Temple posts with more serious Temple posts that actually contribute to the discussion taking place, I might feel more inclined to agree that we should all just calm down a little. But that's not what Alex is doing. Consequently, there is no gesture of good will from Alex to offset the ill will that Alex surely knows he's generated at this point and continues to add to.

You can always clean it up later when it is evidential value has run it's course.

I'm having a hard time imagining when that would be, as I'm reading it as implying a future where moderators have a functional banning tool. Personally, I'm not content to sit back and let Alex piss wherever and whenever he wants to in the interests of collecting evidence for a ban that probably won't happen. All we have, and all we can really count on at this point, are the tools we have. Basically, Delete Post and Edit Post. If we MUST build a body of evidence, we can keep a running tally in the Granny Ban thread. I'm not necessarily in favor of the tally idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there because I am nice and trying to find a workable middle ground in all of this.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:53 / 24.02.08
Triplets Is bringing humour to barbelith a cause for offense now?

Greybeards! Eleventy-three!! Fnord!!!

There will always be a difference between those that have no problem with AG and those that think that he would have been in greater difficulties if he were a newer member.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
13:42 / 24.02.08
And there's a slight difference between "bringing humour" and constantly being a prick and winding others up, purely for the sake of it.
 
 
Olulabelle
16:23 / 24.02.08
What he said.
 
 
grant
03:57 / 25.02.08
If you make a link directly to a thread, even after it's been deleted, that URL still works for that thread. The same thing isn't true for posts?

Even if it's not, I'm still in favor of deleting the stuff rather than sitting there eyeing it.
 
 
HCE
10:41 / 25.02.08
Which would you rather have, the ability to ban, or the ability to put somebody on your ignore list permanently, so you don't have to refresh the list each week?
 
 
grant
14:48 / 25.02.08
Not sure if this is immediately relevant, but to ban. I never use the Ignore button.
 
 
electric monk
17:05 / 25.02.08
I'd prefer the ban as well.

The same thing isn't true for posts?

I'd just assumed that deleted posts disappear and wouldn't be available if linked. Apologies for being unclear in my "running tally" comment. To expand: If majority opinion is such that we need to keep a tally of these things, I'd prefer to copy/paste the naughty AG posts into new posts in the Granny Ban thread and link those back to the original context. The original posts would then be edited to "Post Deleted" or sumpthin'.

Does that make sense?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:23 / 25.02.08
Except that that stops it being a banning thread, although it's a bollock of a banning thread to start with, and turns into - what, a catalogue of grievances, to be trotted out at some point when we have the power to ban?

First up, that power is not going to be conferred, or more precisely nothing that has happened so far suggests that it will. Banning will remain a matter of somebody contacting Tom directly and hoping for the best.

Second up, I've explained how one might go about banning Alex's grandma so many times now that I am beginning to suspect that nobody actually wants to ban him. Collecting instances of his running battle of offence taking and giving with whomever else is involved is not going to cut it, especially because taken out of context the responses can themselves seem disproportionate. So, let's try again.

Banning on Barbelith took place generally as a result of spamming, suit hijacking, holocaust denial or harassment. Certain behaviour is so offensive that it counts as harassing even if the people involved are not clearly identifiable as targets - so, one can harass by making outspokenly racist, sexist or homophobic statements even if one is not makign them intentionally about anyone on the board. AG is not doing any of those things. He is, however, behaving in a way that is clearly upsetting to some other users of Barbelith, and seems unwilling or unable to moderate his behaviour - for example, by not posting in the Temple. So, the argument would be that this upsetting behaviour is either malicious or pathological, and in either case that if he cannot undertake to or abide by an undertaking to stop doing it, he should be removed from Barbelith.

If we are banning for causing some people offence, of course, and being unable to shut up, I have a list of people who ought to be banned, for their own good or the good of the tattered remnants of the community. That's editorial, however, and also too late.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:28 / 25.02.08
I think you put the wrong post up for deletion, Haus - that was your 'cleaning up the wee' one that was in the queue just now.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:03 / 25.02.08
That was for moderation, wasn't it?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:05 / 25.02.08
Sorry, I mean for editing. Anyhoo, it turns out that you need 2 votes to delete or edit a post, so functionally there probably isn't a huge amount of difference between deleting a post and changing it to a hyperlink pointing to a reproduction of its content in the Policy, if that's what makes you happy.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:41 / 25.02.08
I think deleted posts are removed from the database entirely, btw. We've had this discussion before. Ghost threads were an accident, not an intentional part of the design.
 
 
grant
19:08 / 25.02.08
Yeah, that test is gone now - link just leads to this thread.

So never mind that, then.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
01:35 / 26.02.08
Right. Well I'm genuinely sorry for being the kind of drag that I have been, recently. Or always was, perhaps. I'm not trying to play 'Hamlet' when I say so; I suppose I just suck.
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
20:10 / 26.02.08
I, for one, love Granny's posts in the Temple. Somebody needs to walk the boundary between what's acceptable and what's not, somebody needs to call into question dearly held beliefs, the better to test them against the dread god Absurdity, somebody needs to transgress, Gruddammit, the better to hold the community together, in opposition to hir. Granny is a liminal figure, a djinn at the border, a ladyboy who dances at the Temple's edge, howling, laughing, and rending her Intimmisimi underwear.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:11 / 26.02.08
Hardly a huge surprise to see you being the person to promote the trickster defence.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:23 / 26.02.08
Ah, but now the elves are passing into the West. The magicians are moving to the Liminal Nation. The Furries are leaving the Tower of London.
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
22:30 / 26.02.08
Um, might it not have occured to you that I know that the 'trickster defence' holds little, if any, water here, and was consequently laying it on a bit, um, thick? 'A djinn at the border'... Honestly, Randy...
 
 
Papess
23:28 / 26.02.08
It is your way, Glenn, to backtrack and mask your commentary with the humour defense. All in good fun or trying to make a point, Glenn? Which is it?

If your comment is really supposed to be funny, why is it that some of us can't see it...or most of Barbelith, actually. How is it that it comes across as thoughtless and mischief-making?

This is a pattern now. Please don't hide behind the "humour" defense, Glenn. It isn't even making sense now.
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
07:56 / 27.02.08
If your comment is really supposed to be funny

Not funny so much as non-serious. Rather like this:




why is it that some of us can't see it...or most of Barbelith, actually

Papess, I'm not sure what gives you the authority to speak for most of Barbelith, or even how you came to know, as you claim to, most of Barbelith's minds. At at rate, you don't seem to credit most of Barbelith with much in the way of reading skills. Granny is a liminal figure, a djinn at the border, a ladyboy who dances at the Temple's edge, howling, laughing, and rending her Intimmisimi underwear.. Yup, most of Barbelith would find it difficult to read that sentence as anything but heartfelt...

Right, now I'm off to the Temple, to post in the 'Bleeding Women' thread about Loki's hatred for mooncups.
 
  

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