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New X-Men #146 (SPOILERS)

 
  

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Quimper
21:18 / 05.09.03
I believe the X-men were following an anonymous tip when they first encountered Xorn.
 
 
Quireboy
21:25 / 05.09.03
So do we think it's just a helmet to keep things out - or a containment suit?

In other words is that really a star in his head, or just some clever anti-telepathy device.
 
 
Quireboy
21:48 / 05.09.03
Well apparently Jean flies off into space in this issue - presumably to rescue Logan - perhaps this is Xorn's cue to put his plans in motion.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
22:22 / 05.09.03
SPOILERAGE!


Well he was supposed to do the ultimate Magneto story, and the one panel before he was killed was probably not it.
 
 
bio k9
22:50 / 05.09.03
Lame.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
01:07 / 06.09.03
SPOILERS

I'll always be amazed by some people here's desire for things to be more complicated than they are.

None of the major characters in the X-Men are having new powers. Please make a note of that. The only big guns to get secondary mutations so far are Iceman and Archangel, and they are pretty much second stringers even still. So it is very, very doubtful that one of the most famous and iconic characters in the X-mythos will have new powers to confuse casual readers when the old ones do just fine.

There is nothing that Mr. Xorn has done that the old villain can't do. Where is the evidence of Xorn being telepathic? Please be specific.

Xorn's helmet is obviously just a way to a) keep up a disguise and b) keep the telepaths from prying. The old villain can manipulate people with their blood. He doesn't need to manipulate people telepathically, he's a master trickster/strategist, and one of the most charismatic men on the planet. Psi powers are for the lazy.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
01:45 / 06.09.03
For what it's worth (which may not be much in this particular instance) I'm thinking that SARS' assertion that XXXX originally had some sort of psi power way back in the day is correct. That fact may have been "retconned", as the kids say nowadays, but I do recall something like that being the case. The closest thing to psi-powers that "Xorn" has exhibited are his instances of cosmic awareness or whatnot, although those instances could easily have been misdirection. Must sort through NXM issues and follow the Xorn arc now...

Now that I've had the surprise spoiled ( ), I'm intrigued to see how this is going to work out. The pieces do seem to add up from where I'm standing, but I can't quite see the angles, the "why"s. It seems, perhaps, needlessly complicated. Again, must parse th' Xorn arc.
 
 
bio k9
01:52 / 06.09.03
If someone Ive know for years put a helmet on and hung out at my house for a few months, I think I might figure out who it was after a while.
 
 
The Falcon
02:17 / 06.09.03
I think it is more complex, really. What about the jailer who'd been there for 50 years guarding the guy? And since when did [spoiler] vapourise kids with his face? How? Mind was read by Emma in said annual, and couldn't be by Charles in #127. So: telepathic residue from the key - and if so, whose? False memories?

I think Xorn may have absorbed 'Mr. Helmet' (if we must continue this pretence of not using the name,) at some point in the 2001 Annual. Possibly during his black hole escapade.

And, given this'll be the first issue of an arc, there'll be more rev-O-lations following no doubt.

Can't stop seeing [if you haven't figured it out by now, you're not trying] doing an 'A-Ha!!' face, drawn by Ron Lim or the like, in my head just now, though.

I remain 99% certain the execution will be somewhat better.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
02:30 / 06.09.03
I've been trying to avoid spoilers about this ish like crazy, but the moment I first got hints of what may happen, a buddy AIM'd me with "Holy fuck Xorn is *!@#$%^!"

Sigh.

I think it would only work as long as the "transfer" happened sometime after Xorn was made a teacher. (Which would also explain the "sinister" vibes the Xorn started displaying and possibly altering the Quentin scene drasticly.) This whole thing possibly turning the "Radio Free Helmet Guy" issue into the most important issue of the arc.

Even if this is ture, and I figure it is, I trust Morrison to be able to make it work. Even if it leaves me feeling odd for having placed some spiritual signifigence on Xorn.
 
 
bio k9
03:02 / 06.09.03
Christ. Enough already.


XORN IS MAGNETO
XORN IS MAGNETO
XORN IS MAGNETO
XORN IS MAGNETO
XORN IS MAGNETO
XORN IS MAGNETO
XORN IS MAGNETO
XORN IS MAGNETO
XORN IS MAGNETO
XORN IS MAGNETO


Maybe.
 
 
bio k9
03:11 / 06.09.03
I haven't seen the rumor anywhere else, where did it start? I've skipped quite a few issues over the last few months and I'm not in a big hurry to go reread the issues I do have right now, so maybe I'm missing something. I dunno. I have no interest in Magneto and the whole thing seems sort of Thunderbolts to me.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
04:21 / 06.09.03
The idea of Xorn somehow absorbing him is intriguing and very in line with kinds of things that have been happening throughout the rest of the run thus far. Morrison very intentionally left an enormous gap between Xorn's liberation and his recruitment by Scott during Imperial. I've no doubt that most of that time will be accounted for by 154.
 
 
Quireboy
07:43 / 06.09.03
Flux we haven't seen Xorn use telepathic powers. I raised Magneto's little know additional power because of the key which Emma picks up all those memories from. And how is having his powers evolve complicating NXM? Jean, Logan, Hank and Emma have all undergone secondary mutation, as have Iceman and Angel on Uncanny - they're all major characters so why is it so hard to conceive that Magneto's powers have evolved and he's become (guessing) pure electromagnetic energy?

IF - and I doubt it as apparently Xorn tells Xavier the Chinese prison was a set up - there was a switch of Xorn to Magneto could it have happened after the X-men went to Genosha?
 
 
Quireboy
07:51 / 06.09.03
MAJOR SPOILERS


According to another message board...

Jean flies off into space using the Phoenix force to save Logan, when she finds him he's battling Weapon XV in the Weapon Plus space station. He tells her to get out of there. She looks around and realises they're on .... Asteroid M. Then there's another huge explosion.

So it would appear that Magneto is behind the Weapon Plus programme.
 
 
Quireboy
08:04 / 06.09.03
Which begs the question did Magneto destroy Genosha in order to make himself a martyr and set this whole elaborate takeover of the institute up?
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
09:30 / 06.09.03
Oh, for fuck's sake.

This is such utter fanboy wank!

How could Magneto a) resurrect a dead bird b) shoot light out of his face and c) be locked up in china for 50 years and be a thorn in the side of the X-Men since their formation however many years back?

How could Asteroid M (which was nuked and fell to earth) be a space station in orbit which just blew up but somehow reformed for Jean to fly up there and recognise as Asteroid M?

This is fucking drivel, come on! This is shitty storytelling!

If this is true then Morrison's jumped the fucking shark.

But it likely isn't. This is someone intelligent (most likely from here) fucking with the fanboy's skulls.

For fuck's sake.
 
 
diz
10:29 / 06.09.03
when does the issue come out so we can be done speculating, for christ's sake?
 
 
Quireboy
10:33 / 06.09.03
OK it does sound like Fanboy wank, but I can see an explanation - albeit with a few crucial gaps at the moment.

When Jean and Xavier 'rescued' Fantomex he took them to a hideout that turned out to be an illusion. If this rumour about Xorn being Magneto is true then the whole Chinese prison setup was, like Fantomex's dear old mum, just an illusion. (Note how both Magneto and Fantomex have a telepathy blocking helmet/mask.)

But is Magneto behind Weapon Plus or has he inflitrated it for his own ends - setting them against the X-Men to further his own agenda?

Re. this rumour - it started on Joe Quesada's website - infer what you want from that.

Another thing did he destroy the nanosentinels in the other X-Men's blood or just deactivate them?
 
 
Quireboy
10:36 / 06.09.03
It comes out on Wednesday.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
13:23 / 06.09.03
You could very easily "ressurrect" a bird by manipulating the metallic minerals in his bloodstream to simulate flying. Like a gross zombie bird puppet. Erik, you sick fuck.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:45 / 06.09.03
Re: secondary mutations

Jean and Wolverine had their 'secondary mutations' years ago. It's been part of those characters long before Grant Morrison came along.

Beast only changed his appearance. That character hasn't really changed.

Emma Frost is not a major X-Men character (well, maybe she is now...).

Iceman and Archangel are relatively minor X-Men characters.




Q: If you hate 'fanboy wank,' why did you ever start buying the X-Men in the first place? Whether it's Magneto or En Sabah Nur, it's part of the X-Men story that's been going on for ages, and both of those characters have been mentioned repeatedly throughout the run. Why is this such a shocker wocker? Did you ever REALLY think Magneto was dead? And it's not at all out of character for either of them to do this kind of stuff. You can pretend that you're reading the Invisibles (which I believe was roughly ten thousand times more lame at the end of its run), but let's face it, you're reading the X-Men. And the X-Men is essentially a story about Magneto Vs. Xavier. Don't pretend that it's not.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
14:30 / 06.09.03
Although the solicits have been removed for NX on Marvel.com the original solicitations for the next two issues mentioned something about Xorn squaring off against Dust as she goes ballistic.

The later solicits do imply that Mags is back as a Baddie but I think GM will deal with some obviously interesting grey areas in this showdown.

Only GM could bring Mags back and make it plausable anyway. I just didn't think he'd actually do it.

I'm both disappointed by the revelations and excited. Disappointed because its a tried and tested TRITE X-men formula. BORING.
But I'm also excited because come on people this is Grant. He can do this sorta stuff and make it gold.


Please Note: I will happily eat my words if it all turns out to be shite.
 
 
diz
14:30 / 06.09.03
Jean and Wolverine had their 'secondary mutations' years ago. It's been part of those characters long before Grant Morrison came along.

what are we saying Wolverine's "secondary mutation" is? i always thought he basically had one power: an extremely nasty feral metabolism, which incorporates the healing factor, the senses, and (post-Fatal Attractions) the bone claws into one "power", and that everything else was part of the Weapon X/Plus upgrade package...

Beast only changed his appearance. That character hasn't really changed.

you could also say that these changes are the result of lingering long-term effects from the self-experimentation which turned him blue and furry to begin with.

Did you ever REALLY think Magneto was dead?

well... yes and no. i thought he'd be dead until the end of GM's run, and then he would promptly return in a Very Major Event.

And it's not at all out of character for either of them to do this kind of stuff. You can pretend that you're reading the Invisibles (which I believe was roughly ten thousand times more lame at the end of its run),

heretic! =P

but let's face it, you're reading the X-Men. And the X-Men is essentially a story about Magneto Vs. Xavier. Don't pretend that it's not.

first off, let me say for the record that i love Magneto with all my heart and soul. he's one of my favorite superhero comic characters ever, and quite possibly my favorite villain period (the only possible rival i can think of to him is the Joker).

that said, i'll be really disappointed if he comes back, especially if he's Xorn.

i think that it has been Xavier vs Magneto in the past, but that it really could move on from that. my favorite period in X-Men before this point was when they were running around in Australia, with Magneto mostly offstage and Xavier off in the Shi'ar Empire, when the remaining X-Men were left trying to make their own way in the world post-Xavier.

i think the series as a whole took a major step backward back in the early 90s when they brought Xavier back and rejoined the original five/X-Factor (around the time of the X-Men #1 launch) and then spent the rest of the 90s trying to recapture something which had already passed.

i liked the fact that GM was taking certain elements of the core mythology and reworking them, adding new elements, and subtracting old ones. Xorn was a major new element, and the death of Magneto was a major subtraction. to me, it really felt like the X-Men had finally stopped spinning their wheels and moved on in a new direction. this would make it seem like that was less true.

now, all of that said: i think it's entirely possible that the whole Chinese prison thing was a sham and i also think that it's plausible that Magneto could do just about everything Xorn has done.

-------

on the point of the Scott Sabah Nur theory: Weapon XV clearly chose not to kill Scott. why? has that been kicked around sufficiently yet?

i'm more favorably disposed towards the return of Apocalypse via Scott than the return of Magneto via Xorn, partially because the whole arms race between mutantkind and Weapon Plus seems like something that fits his shtick really well, and because i think that Apocalypse is a really cool villain on some level who just hasn't had a truly great story yet, and i think this might fit the bill.

i suppose Scott could be Apocalypse and Xorn could be Magneto at the same time. that would be just plain weird, however...
 
 
diz
14:33 / 06.09.03
oh, yeah...i forgot to mention: this may be a superficial point, but the cover for 149 features Xorn, looking pretty much like Xorn, except more pissed off. presuming that the cover resembles the content of the issue, if Xorn pulls off his helmet in 146 and says "aha! I WAS MAGNETO ALL ALONG!", then why would he still look like Xorn in 149?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:40 / 06.09.03
Why is Jean Grey on the cover of #134 if she's not in it?

Why is Logan on some of the covers when he's barely in it?

Why is the Jean Grey cover from Germ Free Generation the cover of the Riot trade when she's a minor character in that storyline?

The covers don't always have much to do with the insides.
 
 
Optimistic
15:22 / 06.09.03
I don't have a lot of time right now so I can't read every single post. It's not just laziness, I assure you. However, I was wondering if anyone had mentioned Rich Johnson in any of this because he seems to thing Jean Grey might die in this issue.

And I know Morrison said nobody was going to die in his run but...
 
 
Quireboy
15:37 / 06.09.03
God Flux you're so arrogant at times.

Emma is a major character in NXM. Beast has mutated further - in the first arc he talks about this in the context of secondary mutation. Did you miss that whole subplot about his fear he was devolving? Wolverine's healing factor has also increased. Whether or not the Phoenix force is Jean's secondary mutation is a moot point but again Beast talks of the return of her TK in the context of secondary mutation.

I'm not saying that Magneto HAS undergone secondary mutation to become Xorn but who are you to smack down such speculation. I would expect a moderater to be more diplomatic.

I don't read Uncanny but to say Angel and Iceman are minor X-characters is bollocks given that they are long-running characters who were part of the original team.

As for Magneto being Xorn - and if you think it's fanboy wank why read the X-Men at all. Frankly I think if this is true - and it probably is - it's hilarious - especially given the pages of discussion in this site about how NXM was one in the eye for the fanboys. No, I don't consider myself a fanboy because to me that term appears to denote a belief that there is only one way to portray the X-Men, which largely seems to be the series' lowest point in the mid to late 90s. I've bought NXM because it's beeen entertaining period.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:00 / 06.09.03
What's major and important in New X-Men is different from what is major for the entire X-Men franchise.

Please note that the major characters in the franchise haven't had their powers fucked with over the past few years: Professor Xavier, Cyclops, Phoenix, Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, Magneto. There's a reason for that. A few reasons, actually.

Archangel and Iceman are important characters, but they aren't the most famous, or very popular. Iceman is significantly more famous than Archangel, but they aren't changing him in ways that will make him unrecognizable - they are simply taking his power to a logical extreme. The Archangel thing, on the other hand, is just flat-out insane.
 
 
El Gato Was Right: the t-shirt
16:24 / 06.09.03
Um, Flux, just nitpicking, but Jean Grey has had her powers fucked with. That little return of the Phoenix Force thing, as much as she tries to downplay it, is fairly new. She hasn't manifested it in quite a few years.

That said, I have no idea why y'all are arguing over this one way or the other.
 
 
quinine92001
16:29 / 06.09.03
The most important thing that everyone is missing is that Emma is still alive. Here I thought she fell back apart after uttering the word Esme. When did I miss her resurrection? So what if Mags is back-did that really suprise anyone? He died outside of the comic book panel-we were the ones who made that assumption.It's all a game. It will probably be revealed that all of this is just one Jacob's Ladder Danger Room experiment to try and aid Xavier to ascend to heaven. In the end it will be two fictionsuits ( Jean and Scott ) undergoing extensive psychotherapy trying to undo all of their past mistakes.
 
 
Quimper
16:33 / 06.09.03
originally posted by ME 19/8/03:

"Magneto: C'mon. Can the X-Men really exist without Magneto? Do we really think our Lord and Master died off-panel?

It's safe to assume that Magneto is still alive and that "Ambient Magnetic Fields" was a ruse.

It's all about illusion, misdirection.

Did he know he'd be more powerful as a martyr? Was Quentin blatantly wearing the answers on his chest during the beginning of "Riot?" Did HIS fake death force Xavier to change the course of mutant affairs?

Who else can manipulate an empty taxi cab to pick Esme up from school?

Who else could erase Sage's computer mind? A magnet is the best way to erase a hard drive or a floppy disk.

It's obvious that the machinations behind "Riot" and "Murder" were towards the goal of eliminating X-associated telepaths. Why? Because they could detect him? Because telepaths are the only form of mutant more powerful than the Master of Magnetism?

"The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he doesn't exist" --Verbal Kint, The Usual Suspects"



...And you all told me I was crazy! YEAH!

But I just thought of this scariness...those nano-sentinels are probably still inside the X-Men and have proabably spread to the students, the humans at the bloody RIOT!!!, and many, many others.

Sounds like a certain mutant population needs a DISINFECTION!!!
 
 
Quimper
16:41 / 06.09.03
My point was....with the nano-sentinels inside everyone, Mags controls everyone.
 
 
Quimper
16:52 / 06.09.03
And I don't know why Beast missed this, but I think the nanos are inside Kick.
 
 
Aertho
17:08 / 06.09.03
And IF Magneto IS in charge of EVERYTHING now, via nano-sentinels in Kick, the Germ free generation colds, the Weapon Plus programme, and insane enough to destroy his life-long dream nation, what the kcuf would be the ultimate theme behind it that would motivate Morrison to write the gnikcuf story?

Morrison has themes of evolution and unity and fictionalized reality. What would be the point of having Xorn -a truly unique and NEW mutant for a new century- be Magneto?
 
  

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