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X Men 2 (HUGE FUCKING SPOILERS)

 
  

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CameronStewart
01:03 / 08.05.03
Yep, all of my non-comics reading friends understood it, and dug it accordingly.

Looking forward to your Epic script, yawn.
 
 
Sebastian
01:24 / 08.05.03
YYYIIIPEEEEE!!!! Yawn! You Are My X-Men!!!

I'll point something else, and then I'll go into something really nasty you guys are going to vomit all over your keyboards.

Hugh Jackman/Logan's hair style. Sorry, but its impossibly ridiculous in the opening sequence, "in the wild". I mean, how distracting is to calculate the actual ammount of spray needed to get that preposterous grandma's hair style?? I_M_P_O_S_S_I_B_L_E. Way out of whatever was supposed to be, it looked like a ridiculously artificial crown, which was practically unnoticed in the first flick. Then it kinda looses a bit... until the last fucking scene with Cyclops, in the mansion, with the brilliant dialogue ("She chose you. Me Tarzan"), and WHOA! there you have it again, a perfect casque of rigidly "wild" hair .

(And why the fuck didn't Logan actually picked up there was a huge fucking base right under his heels, eh, You Religious X-Fan? And at the Mansion? Fuck! Near 15 armed soldiers inside and he was wondering where to find a beverage! Wash your ears Logan! Not just your balls!)

Oh, and then what does he do? He sends Piotr with the little kids in pajamas into "some tunnels" in the midle of the night after three huge helicopters stormed the place and best idea that comes to mind is to go on a car ride to visit Bobby's family, and then after the big dolls of course. C'mon...

And mind-washed Kurt, yes, mind-washed, the perfect assassin conveniently mind washed and programmed to kill the president, only to then reveal his real sheep's skin, look! He is as good as a priest, even better, and he prays with impossible faith to the christian god! And he has sad story, like the elephant Man, probably full of humilliations. Oh, poor mutant, how evil and mischievious were the hands that turned you into such an unstoppable whirlwind of murder, you, who would rather hold a cross than a dagger, if it were not for your mind-washing, your so confusing mind-washing.

Now, honestly, look in your face, there, back from the screen, look at you sitting there, look closer, aren't you tired of all this shit? Isn't this the perfect ideological hamburger you like to be fed before going to bed? Aren't you sick of how this dull meat tastes again and again, movie after movie?

Because I tell ya, it would have been far more interesting to make Kurt actually have both murderous and religious convictions coexisting. Does this ring familiar? Touching something there maybe? Too complicated to conceive... or to fucking dangerous? Oh, yes, but its so easy to excuse the actions if drugs were involved, right? But you know very well, yes, you know how many people is there actually screaming inside for murder and looking right after the fucking excuse, the fucking drink, the fucking drug to then go curse someone, rape, kill, steal, and even the shitty sins like lying, fucking, something will have the perfect ingredient that smacks your brain and you go nuts without hope, you, poor weakling.

Giant Man wasn't on anything when he assaulted his wife, back there in Millar's Ultimates. Thats one of the points why the scene was so fucking shocking.

But don't worry guys, Cyke was under some drug when he attacked Jeannie. Just make sure no one is pouring it into your napes.
 
 
CameronStewart
01:44 / 08.05.03
>>>Giant Man wasn't on anything when he assaulted his wife, back there in Millar's Ultimates. Thats one of the points why the scene was so fucking shocking.<<<

Ah. See, right there you lost me, because that I have as much bile for that fucking scene as you have for X2. You really think that Giant Man slapping around The Wasp is mature, intelligent storytelling?
 
 
Seth
06:50 / 08.05.03
We've established that there are mutants who have a near religious anti-human zeal in the two movies. It makes no sense to irrepairably alter an established character just to create a new one.
 
 
doctorbeck
07:53 / 08.05.03
sebastian wolfies wild hair is full of adamantium, making it easier to style in even the most hostile of environments


do i get a no prize?


otherwise loved the film, and i speak as an old time claremont-era fanboy who even bought crap like x-men vs avengers mini-series (but who at least had the decency to stop after that inferno dynasty style plot fiasco)

magneto was far and away the star of the show for me, even in that crappy helmet, played with some real gravitas and style

also nightcrawlers bamfing was marvelous, and yes, i am vaguely exited about x3 pheonix possibilities, insomuch as i can be exited about some major hollywood fantasy product set to divert me from the rest of my life for a few hours a few eyars frokm now

andrew
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
08:07 / 08.05.03
cameron, regarding the epic script:

stay on topic, you snidey little man.
 
 
bio k9
08:26 / 08.05.03
What. A. Prick.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
08:40 / 08.05.03
Isn't he just, Bio.

couldn't agree more.

next, please.

ha ha.
 
 
bio k9
08:56 / 08.05.03
See, I understand you don't like the movie. Whatever. But whats up with the personal attacks?

Did I miss something?
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
09:03 / 08.05.03
calm down baby.

I know what I'm doing.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:42 / 08.05.03
I'm sure you do - it's what you always do. Wilfully sacrifice your own intelligence for the sake of a comedic persona that amuses maybe half a dozen people. Luxuriate in the myth of your own iconoclasm, which relies on you disregarding what's actually been posted in the thread and any inconveniant factual 'details' (X2 has only been a success with geeky X-men fans like everyone on Barbelith but you? so the remaining audience figures are just the people who go to see every action film that comes out?). I mean: Jean’s fight with Scott made no sense to the non x-fan - what?

In the end, you're just lowering the tone for the sake of confrontation. Great - you've demonstrated often enough that you yourself really get a kick out of it. But jeez, man, move on.
 
 
Lullaboozler
10:49 / 08.05.03
*Hauling this thread back on topic*

Suprised no-one's mentioned this yet, but did anyone else pick up on the fact that it was the female charcters who were the main driving force for most of this film?

Mystique providing Magneto with his means of escape, Jean and Storm picking up Nightcrawler THEN fighting off the jets (which were piloted by women). Rogue using Pyro's powers to put out the fires he'd started, Storm rescuing Xavier from Jason... It's even Rogue and not Bobby piloting the X-jet at the end.

X-powers level the genders.

Oh, And I enjoyed the film. Please don't attack me. :-)
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
11:21 / 08.05.03
none
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
11:40 / 08.05.03
for the sake of this thread: insults pm'd to me please from now on.

fly: yawn.
 
 
Ganesh
11:52 / 08.05.03
Why do we scream at each other? This is what it sounds like when geeks cry...

Have to agree on Wolverine's hair, though: not so much its lacquered adamantium rigidity but the scraped-back-with-a-monofilament-fringe look beloved of scrunchie-toting, pram-pushing gymslip "slappers" everywhere. Jean braiding it would've been a mercy...

Yawn, have you tried not being a dissenter?
 
 
deja_vroom
11:56 / 08.05.03
About women's roles in this movie: What I've noticed is that Wolverine again fights a woman in the big final battle scene.
 
 
Ganesh
12:01 / 08.05.03
Wolverine clearly has 'smothering mother' castration/independence issues. Not only does he reconnect her to a deadly umbilical but he replaces her in amniotic fluid, establishing that - on this occasion, at least, he has successfully clawed his own way out of the womb.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
12:08 / 08.05.03
ganesh: I tried to like x2. honestly.
 
 
Ganesh
12:10 / 08.05.03
S'okay. I was quoting Mrs Drake.
 
 
deja_vroom
12:41 / 08.05.03
Not only does he reconnect her to a deadly umbilical but he replaces her in amniotic fluid
Wow. Must have missed this part. I only saw him injecting hot liquid adamantium up her stomach and dumping her into a glass box full of dirty water...

But, really. Clever interpretation.
 
 
Ganesh
12:50 / 08.05.03
Tt. So literal, Jade...

Next Up: The Eye Of Sauron Broke My Melee Weapon
 
 
nihraguk
12:53 / 08.05.03
Besides, wolverine only really interfaces well with women in the movie. Xavier/Scott/Stryker/Iceman/Nightcrawler -- what? Nothing happens there. It takes Mystique to rubber his feathers up, Jean to do the dirty pole dance thang all over the driveway to his momma, and of course Rogue to play the big-boy-small-girl complex over and over in the subtextual narrative of this tricky little show.

Seriously.

And I'm tending to agree with Yawn here -- the movie does take itself too seriously at times. I felt like nails screeching across windowpanes and chalkboards at the last Whitehouse scene with the deliberate camera focus on one X-man at a time, each giving a little threatening 'uh-uh-i'm -the- mofo' look. That had the potential to just ruin the show for me. I also thought that the dribbling chemical into the cigarette burn behind the neck thing got to convenient -- everyone was into it, the way everyone was actually Mystique in disguise (well, not really, but you get the idea). Too much mind control. Where did Beast make an appearance, or a hint of it?
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
13:42 / 08.05.03
thanks, stranger, for responding to one of my points about the film rather than using this thread as a backdrop for any grievances you may have against me.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:46 / 08.05.03
Oh brother...
 
 
Lullaboozler
14:11 / 08.05.03
Oh brother indeed...

These guys sound like the Capalert chap from Texas who passes his unswerving Christian judgement on all Hollywood pumps out. Boy, does he *like* this film...

All I can say is if you look hard enough, you are going to see what you want.
 
 
Ganesh
14:39 / 08.05.03
I think the 'seriousness' actually worked in the film's favour, preventing it becoming 'Batman'-hammy or overly camp (Magneto notwithstanding). Having said that, my favourite scenes were probably those with Nightcrawler and the whole sequence at Iceman's parents' house. The 'coming out' thing worked well there, and the 'mutant=gay' angle seems a profitable one to explore.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
15:20 / 08.05.03
COncerning seriousness: I wasn't looking for looney tunes. It was the overall TONE. And now that you bring up the iceman thing, that's exactly why Pyro's defection seemed pointless. It should have been iceman; rejected by his parents he would naturally look for a more caring father figure. enter magneto. It could have been amped up with him falling out with rogue too.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:43 / 08.05.03
But he wasn't rejected with his parents: his brother betrayed him in a moment of angsty spite, and events spiralled out of control, but the point is Bobby has a family with whom he may well be able to patch things up. John doesn't. And I think it's a little weak to say "this character would have been more likely to defect... if you'd split him and his girlfriend up as well".

I also think, yawn, that after calling everyone in the thread "fools" and then calling Flux a "twat" (twice), it's a bit rich to play the "PM me if you want to insult me, stay on topic" card.

But onwards and upwards.

I'm amazed no-one's commented on the slash possibilities for X2 yet. Most notably Logan/Stryker, which is rife with "doing-it-for-daddy" subtext. Mystique turning into Stryker in the tent: "What do you really want?"

And when Jean was speaking through the Professor and saying goodbyeeee, I felt sue Scott was going to kiss him/her.
 
 
Sebastian
16:30 / 08.05.03
Admantium filled hair, brilliant, that's great, you see, that's for me the point of being a fan, you are also particpating in the creation of all this stuff.

Cameron, (You really think that Giant Man slapping around The Wasp is mature, intelligent storytelling?)...
No, and I really don't talk in terms of either mature or intelligent storytelling. I brought the scene because right after it everyone was looking for the "flawed" personality that had been supposeddly "hinted" before, so everyone was a Freud-ian Sherlock Holmes analyizing the book to see where exactly Giant Man had "lost" his mind. Hell, even Millar came out a bit disoriented and admitted that maybe he had dropped the scene too abruptly, and that was because in the minds of the fucking dissappointed audience something, if not a mind scrambling drug, had to be blamed, maybe alcohol, maybe daddy abusing him while he was a child, maybe an unfairly low grade in math during the school years, you see, so everybody could excuse the chap and restore the "hero" and the slapping, and what a relief would have been to have actually a flashback, something maybe explaining that a wasp had actually stinged him as a baby, so we would all breath back again once we learned of the fucking apologising reasons that Millar had "forgotten". It was just that the right hamburger had not been delivered here.

And I tell you, when you learn of such abuses and have to deal with them you really don't give a fuck as to the "psychological background", you go straight to the what-do-we-do-now step. No excuses allowed in the very first place. Cap had smashed someone's jaw in the previous issue much to everyone's dismay with no apparent reason beyond a dislocated elbow, just like "cops" sometimes do to people and eventually get filmed, and when you see the videos you really don't want to start wondering if they were on drugs, under hypnosis, or under a strennous environment. But you can't allow this on "intelligent story telling", right? You need the "mature background" splashed in your face so you can feel a bit better now.

And there it was in the film, anyway, since Cyke and Nightcrawler were under drugs, right? Ah, thats much better indeed.

And Reflect says "We've established that there are mutants who have a near religious anti-human zeal in the two movies.". Okay, so what? Do all mutants have to actually think with this black and white thing then, like Eric? So, if you are not decidedly Anti-Human you'd never think of killing a president? And I suppose in the real world whomever is thinking of killing a politician is also thinking of killing the whole humanity, right? There you have it then, we've been living amidst mutants since ancient Egypt, because probably the first historical record of a political assasination was carried out by an anti-human mutant who actually wanted to kill the whole specie. I think you have plenty of evidence out there, out of the movie, and out of your mind, hinting that many people pondering and pursuing assassination are not just looking for the "destruction" of the human race, you see, nor even for "perennial freedom of humanity", no matter how much it is hailed. It was an easy move, Nightcrwaler was drugged, much convenient and very comfortable. Yes, and he also probably loves politicians. Fortunately the comic book environment has not fell in its entirety to this type of simplicity.

And I suppose you are all perfectly happy with the idea of perversity being a husband slapping a wife for no apparent reason, or of a married businessman arranging secret parties in hotels to practice asphyxophilia while dressing in girls' panties. I'll tell you which is my image of perversity as just delivered by this shit of a movie. Leaving a breathing man to his death while holding a kid in your arms. Nice, isn't it? Really nice thing to see in a movie in which "humanity" is saved, of course.

And for once and all, what the fuck do we know Stryker had actually done? Had he raped someone and then coldly shot him in the head? Did he enjoy sodomizing mutant children like Gilles De Rais? I concede Logan would have ripped Stryker's guts and everyone around when jumping naked right out of the tank, but he was perfectly cool and in his mind here... or maybe the movie script had actually a removed scene in which Logan was also being drugged... by Magneto, and excuse me, but the most likely "heroic" choice, and honoring to the character, would have been to actually snikt his chains, numb Stryker with an admantium-skull blow, and drag the man back to the fucking jet.

But its so damn cool to actually decide who lives and who dies, isn't it? Even if you had just saved humanity, because then you can supposeddly deliver both life and death, oh, how bloody-bloody cool, and aren't we getting a bit used to seeing comic book heroes indulging in comfortable murder in their cinema versions? And now with kids in their arms, and under their tutelage? Do you honestly stand for this? Or maybe you have already learned it this way, without drugs... without even noticing.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:51 / 08.05.03
Mystique turning into Stryker in the tent: "What do you really want?"

You know, both times I've seen the film, that bit got a big laugh from the audience.

Anyway, Flyboy is right about Iceman and Pyro. Iceman's parents were pretty okay with their son's revelation - sure, they weren't thrilled about it, but it was obvious that they loved and supported their son. Their reaction was similar to a lot of reasonable parents in the situation of a child coming out as gay.

It makes perfect sense for Pyro to join Magneto - he's angry, he has no family, he doesn't fit in at Xavier's, he's reckless and arrogant. When he joins Magneto, it isn't some kind of big betrayal, just the character going his own way and showing that joining Magneto is an option for these kids. Flyboy mentions how seductive Magneto is, how he's a cult leader - Pyro's defection is there to show the audience how this happens. After all, in the first film there is no explanation for why the Brotherhood is with Magneto.

It wouldn't make any sense for Iceman to defect - through the whole film, he's a good natured, mature, respectful, level-headed guy. He's a good person, and belongs with the X-Men.
 
 
Persephone
17:08 / 08.05.03
Wolverine's hair isn't infused with admantium. It's got healing factor. No matter what you do to it, voop! it goes back in place.

It's the same hair that James Bond has.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
17:55 / 08.05.03
Who was it that wanted X2 slash? There's not that much as far as I can tell, but this is rather good, I think, especially given the 'coming out/as mutant' theme.
 
 
Ganesh
19:10 / 08.05.03
Ah, the morality/"perversity" of action films! Where do we start...?
 
 
Sebastian
19:38 / 08.05.03
Well, make your move Ganesh.
 
 
Ganesh
19:43 / 08.05.03
My point is, when we start to deconstruct 'action' films along moral/'perverse' faultlines, they're all dubious at best. By the standards of the genre, 'X2' isn't that bad. If you really want to do this, though, I'd suggest another thread.
 
  

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