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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

X Men 2 (HUGE FUCKING SPOILERS)

  
  

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Matthew Fluxington
15:12 / 06.05.03
Jean was attacked by Scott, who was being controlled by Stryker and Mastermind.

LL: I see what you mean about the story being overcrowded, but I think the important thing about having the Morlocks be the ones slaughtered by the Sentinels is a) it's underground, so normal people don't know about it b) it's in these dark tunnels, and will look scarier and c) a huge community of mutants being wiped out is more powerful than just a handful of mutant squatters. If they're going to do the Sentinels, it really should be made clear that this is an act of genocide, and there should be massive casualties.
 
 
casemaker
16:05 / 06.05.03
Given all this speculation about what should happen in the further sequels, I wonder if Singer will direct any more of them? Does he want to base the bulk of his career around this franchise? Or what about Ian McKellan? Does he want to continue in the fantasy genre? And I don't think Halle "I have an Oscar" Berry will stick around for five movies worth of material.

I think the casting is clever though, by using the same generic boy who played Iceman in the first movie. I checked the filmography for the actor who had three seconds as Hank McCoy and he has a number of films under his belt, not many of them good however. So is it safe to say that both he, the actor who played Colossus and the actress who played Kitty will appear in X3?

Also per more sequels: I think having the story elements mentioned (Morlocks, Phoenix, Sentinels, Muir Island and even Proteus) won't get too convoluted if done right. But the inherent problem with these movies is that with each one they make, they add a member or two to the team. The max the team should get is Storm, Cyclops, Fuck Yeah Wolverine, Phoenix, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Beast, Kitty, Rogue and Iceman. Even that seems too big. Basically the "classic" Claremont team. By keeping a number of these characters as just students it leaves more room for actual plot instead of explaining who the character is for fifteen minutes. Didn't Morrison or Millar say somewhere that the only good characters were the ones created in the 70's? It will get confusing to the average movie goer when they start adding people like Gambit, Psylocke, Xorn or Multiple Man beyond cute cameos.
 
 
videodrome
16:30 / 06.05.03
In the Chicago Sun-Times:
Bryan Singer tells this column, "It depends on the circumstances. I know I love this cast and I love the experiences I have on these movies. I feel great affection and proprietorship when it comes to this franchise, so I would probably want to be involved in a third film."

The rumor is the rest of the cast will be back for part three, but Oscar winner Halle Berry has opted out. "You know, it depends," Singer hedges. "I think a lot depends on the evolution of her character, Storm."

Meanwhile, yesterday on Dark Horizons:
X3: Famke Janssen talked with The Toronto Sun and revealed a solid commitment to return in some capacity in a third "X-Men" flick - "I have a firm commitment to the X-Men movies. They are my priority. I've signed for a third. If, and when, it happens I'll arrange my schedule around it...I have no idea where the writers will go with Jean's story, but there are some great possibilities and ones I'd really like to explore". Meanwhile E! Online reports that ex-footballer Daniel Cudmore (Colossus) has also signed for the next film, however according to The Calgary Sun Director Bryan Singer isn't so sure - "I would definitely be involved in some capacity on a third X-Men film because I love the franchise and I love the cast, but I don't necessarily see myself having to direct it...I have purposely incorporated things into X2 and have ideas that would lend themselves to future pictures, but certain circumstances would have to be appropriated because I really want to do a few small pictures before I tackle another big, special-effects movie".
 
 
sleazenation
16:34 / 06.05.03
actually I thought one of the coolest things from a casting point of view was the shear amount of mutants associated with the x-men over the years - it means that while fox should make every attempt to retain a few core characters where possible (phoenix and wolverine) pretty much everyone is pretty expendible and can easily be written out (on a non-perminent basis even). If halle berry isn't up for more x-men the franchise won't miss her anymore than the hundreds of xmen comics that she hasn't appeared in.
 
 
Sebastian
17:32 / 06.05.03
The original X2 ending cuts from Xavier in the classroom to the activation of the first Sentinel ... which is a direct result of the X-Men visiting the president. I think it's obviously going to be a point of continuity in X3.

Oh, sorry then, I'd actually rather go see movies that support by themselves, not by the script the geeky-spectator-fan is supposed to go and read outside the cinema to "get" it.

But in any case, I am almost sure in the last scene the X-Men replace the other people in the presidential room, and of course, the president is handled the dossier, which might be an hallucination, who knows. Can anybody who saw this twice confirm if I am right with the last scene?? Because if I recall properly, the president only sees a crowd of X-Men.
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:35 / 06.05.03
Yeah I could see the whole running around in dark tunnels... Terminator Red Eyes in the darkness etc...

I still think there should be a direct relation to the effects of Charles' Cerebro 2 experience...

Perhaps a Mutant Massacre would work with a group of Reavers... the continuation of all of stryker's weapon plus Adimantium experiments...

It would be Grand to see the Hellfire club rise... Again with Sebastian Shaw picking up the government contract Stryker left behind. Again we could play Donald Peirce Against Shaw; Peirce pushing a cyborb tech solution while Shaw is pushing Giant Robots that breed Morrisonesque hunter killers. I can totally see a set of Giant Robots Sentinals dredging Alkali Lake in persuit of a mutant energy reading...

Meanwhile Shaw's inviting Magneto to join as White King and take over the world through subtler means. Archangel could certainly tip off Charles or Scott to what's going on... perhaps durring a side conversation at Jean's funeral.

IMO attacking the mansion again would seem played out... If the X-men fail to help the morlocks in time then perhaps introducing Muir Island as the next target for a Sentinal attack might work... Or better yet. While peirce's Reavers are just butchering Mutants Shaw's Sentinals are collecting them on an orbital platform for use in genetic experimentation later. This is where the Hellfire club would meet and make for a magnificant location for a pitched battle. One group of X-men (Cyclops, Wolverine, Nightcrawler,)must sneak onto the platform with the help of Archangel... where they find Magneto, Mystique, Pyro staging a coup against Shaw, Emma, Lealand, and Jean "blackqueen" Grey.

Meanwhile Storm, Colossus, Iceman, Rogue (let's have a morlock escape and with it's dying breath tranfer it's consciousness and powers to rogue... giving her flight or strength--for the fan boys-- and the determination & info to huntdown and stop some reavers) and Beast who perhaps had a falling out with Forge amidst the development of mutant testing/tracking technology...

Big show down Spacebase Hellfire... Blackqueen remembers herself and turns on the Hellfireclub. Magneto collects a few choice mutant of from captivity... Sabertooth, Quicksilver, Bloob, Avalance and starts a selfdestruct sequence. The X-men escape with the remanding mutants... Gambit, Multipleman, Cannonball, Husk, Danielle Moonstar. Jean must now use her Phoenix powers to safely land their highjacked space shuttle. Magneto turns the remains of the Spacebase into his Astroid M. The surviving Hellfire club members are detained... some by Magneto...SHAW? And some by the X-men Emma?

Meanwhile it turns out the President's child is also a mutant and after the big showdown at Muir Island or another set of Morlock tunnels...(or maybe the initial tests for the Sentinals/Reavers where in some of the morlocks' smaller settlements leading up to the big purge under Manhattan)... Storm's X-team trace the reavers back to Pierce and thus save the president's child... Happy Ending the President ends Project Wide-awake realising that he must now protect his own children as well...

X4:
After the Chaos at Muir Island Proteus is Free...

Moria appears to reveal her dark secret to Charles 7 the X-men must try & Stop Proteus.

meanwhile Magneto's now got his own Cerebro on Astroid M and figures adding Proteus to his group of Acolytes will enable him to force a massive Pole shift on the planet clearing the earth of humans and "with Proteus" he can literally reshape earth to his liking.

The epic Race & chase has the X-men (Cyclops, Phoenix, Storm, Wolverine, Nighcrawler, Colossus, Rogue, Iceman) trying to stop Proteus as well as Magneto's crew from getting to him. Magneto's Acolytes (Mystique, Pyro, Sabertooth, Avalance, Bloob, Quicksilver) are trying to capture Proteus. Proteus wants to find professor X and brings the battle to the mansion, while the Professor is trying to stop magneto (via Cerebro) from wreaking havok from astroid M!!!
 
 
MojoJojo
17:43 / 06.05.03
X3 opening with an Xavier and Magneto flashback would be great ...intercut with scenes of the sentinels attacking and rounding up mutants during the present.

Personally I'd like to see the third movie really explore their relationship.

The Morlocks are a good choice for a supporting cast. The Hellfire club could also work, I think.

X4: Maybe Morrison's (as well as Milligan's) idea of humans worshipping mutants and wanting to be mutants could work - having an affect on Xavier/Magneto's views perhaps.
 
 
CameronStewart
18:44 / 06.05.03
>>>But in any case, I am almost sure in the last scene the X-Men replace the other people in the presidential room, and of course, the president is handled the dossier, which might be an hallucination, who knows. Can anybody who saw this twice confirm if I am right with the last scene?? Because if I recall properly, the president only sees a crowd of X-Men. <<<

I saw it a second time last night (loved as much as the first time), and no, you're wrong. The X-Men are there in the room amidst the camera crew and Secret Servicemen, who are all telepathically "frozen" by Xavier. Seeing it the second time clarified that scene for me - they don't vanish, they leave the Oval Office in their own time, and Xavier releases everyone from the hypnotic spell once they've gone.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:18 / 06.05.03
A few things -

Really, one of the best things that could happen would be the loss of Halle Berry. They need a better actress to play Storm, particularly if they are going to do Sentinel/Morlock stuff - she has to be very tough, and Berry is so unconvincing in that respect. Storm is a crucial character in the X-Men mythos, and she needs to be there, and she needs to evolve. Give us punk Storm is what I say.

Giving Rogue the abilities of flight and superstrength would be a big mistake to repeat. It's always been an extremely negative thing about the character in the comics, dilutes the concept of the character, and makes thing pointlessly complicated.

self-indulgence ahead...

They can manage the cast pretty easily from film to film without making the cast too large. Going back to the plan that I detailed earlier, I would have characters coming and going from film to film - Jean wouldn't pop up until the end of X3, Kitty's role would remain very very small, and Beast would not be a full-on member of the group. I would have Iceman wounded in the Sentinel attack, and only appear as a cameo in the fourth film. Magneto and the Brotherhood would be over with after X3.

Archangel would be a character in the fourth film, but not join the X-Men or appear in the fifth film. Phoenix, Beast, and Cyclops would be gone after X4, and X5 would only have Xavier, Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Rogue, and Kitty in an expanded role. Psylocke would be added to the story, and Gambit would have a small part similar to Colossus in X2.

If the filmmakers use a strategy like that, it would be manageable. If X2 can do the business that it has, there's no reason why those films would not as well.
 
 
some guy
20:50 / 06.05.03
Oh, sorry then, I'd actually rather go see movies that support by themselves, not by the script the geeky-spectator-fan is supposed to go and read outside the cinema to "get" it.

The scene works as shown in the film - the script explanation (and I think that scene was actually in the rough cut) in interesting but by no means necessary. By "movies that support by themselves" I take you you hated The Two Towers?

But in any case, I am almost sure in the last scene the X-Men replace the other people in the presidential room, and of course, the president is handled the dossier, which might be an hallucination, who knows. Can anybody who saw this twice confirm if I am right with the last scene?? Because if I recall properly, the president only sees a crowd of X-Men.

No, they are definitely actually there. I've seen it twice now, and everyone in the room is still there. They're just frozen like the people in the museum (which in filmspeak is the setup for this payoff). I love the morally gray Xavier in these films.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:20 / 06.05.03
Just got home from the cinema. And all. I. Can. Say. Is.

WHOOOOAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!! that rocked.

More when I regain coherence.
 
 
The Puck
23:49 / 06.05.03
I saw it today, but im not sure it was the same movie everybody is talking about here, i really wanted to like this movie but i have to say it was ok nothing more nothing less.

where was all the action? the whole film for me was, cool nightcrawler yadda yadda evolution yadda yadda yadda secret past blah blah mutation yackty cool wolverine bit smackity the end

i mean why have a cool mutant like the chick with nails if she gets almost no lines or characteriastion and then kill her at the end?

it just felt like they edited out all the best fight scences for yet another "meaningful exchange" between two characters.
 
 
Hieronymus
04:03 / 07.05.03
i mean why have a cool mutant like the chick with nails if she gets almost no lines or characteriastion and then kill her at the end?

Because she was a zombie. A flunkee. She wasn't meant to say anything.

Personally I found that moment when her eyes cleared from the brain-washing haze, that sad and yet almost released flicker in her eyes, to be extremely heartbreaking.
 
 
Seth
05:22 / 07.05.03
it just felt like they edited out all the best fight scences for yet another "meaningful exchange" between two characters.

Jesus. This is a complaint?

X2 is the Anti-Matrix: decent characterisation, acting, some great dialogue in places. If you want dumb inhuman superhero action you only have to wait a couple of weeks.
 
 
videodrome
06:27 / 07.05.03
it just felt like they edited out all the best fight scences for yet another "meaningful exchange" between two characters.

Ha ha. Is funny joke. Taking the single most prominent complaint against blockbusters and reversing it to apply to a flick that gets it right is a bit of humour my post-modern mind can really appreciate. Have you heard Autobahn?
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
08:52 / 07.05.03
OH DEAR. no alternative opinions please.
 
 
Bear
09:22 / 07.05.03
I just think you all seem to be going over the top, it was cool a nice action summer hit, maybe I need to see it again but I wouldn't go as far to say it's the best film ever

That honour surely goes to Howard the Duck.
 
 
Ganesh
10:57 / 07.05.03
We love what you've done with your Bear.
 
 
Bear
11:13 / 07.05.03
Ar Ar...

So what about Morph when does he pop up, I thought he was part of the group from the start?
 
 
Sebastian
11:36 / 07.05.03
Well regarding the "action", during Logan's attack on the soldiers I honestly thought I was going to see blood splashing the walls and arms and fingers flying everywhere around, like that BWS' cover of Weapon X, and then I felt a bit dissapointed since although the sequence is nice it definitely blocked my reality-suspension movie-engagement sense, especially considering the movie-real size of the fucking adamantium claws.

Mystique and Kurt got the best action sequences I think. Cyclops vs Jean was a bit lame, but very well filmed.

One question, am I the only one who is a bit sick about this comic-book exported idea of this domestically easy brain-washing of characters that change sides in nanoseconds through either fantastic drugs or head concussions?? I absolutely despise it in comic-books, and I just hope I won't start seeing it predate film adaptations like it happened in this one. I'd had loved Kurt to actually have murderous ideas against the government, and of course I was dissappointed when everything turned out to be Stryker's manipulation, which was very much at the service of the plot. And the whole brain washing of Scott also looks for me just at the service of a brief confrontation with Emma, sorry, Jean.

By "movies that support by themselves" I take you you hated The Two Towers?

Well, almost bullseye. I actually loved Two Towers, but I admit it is definitely done for readers of the novel, since as you point out spectators definitely need a some bit of a background that is only found in the novel itself.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
12:34 / 07.05.03
thank god for you sebastian. thank god.

anyone notice how jean grey had fuck all to say apart from:

'I'm fine.'

'I'm okay'

'You okay?'

ha ha.

down hill from the blue guy at the beginning. (part from metal escape)

sfunny, cos barbelith usually brims over with thoughtful commentary. Reading this thread though, I reckon you've all had yer napes fingered by Stryker!
 
 
Sebastian
14:21 / 07.05.03
Me?

No.

I'm fine.

Really okay.

I mean, I could see what I was doing, but couldn't help it.

You okay?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
15:46 / 07.05.03
I think it's kind of cool that everyone here seems to be seeing the film multiple times.

It's got that late seventies Star Wars effect, I guess.

I've seen it twice now too, but the second time was sort of accidental - I was forced to kill three and a half hours of my time on Sunday and decided to just see the film again. I would've seen it again either way, though.
 
 
deja_vroom
16:17 / 07.05.03
yawn: sfunny, cos barbelith usually brims over with thoughtful commentary

cmon, yawn, its a damn super-hero flick! you analyze it an inch more seriously and the whole thing falls apart. Enjoy the eye candy, nod nostalgically to your green years, now past behind you, and move on.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:44 / 07.05.03
Yawn, I think that even if you try very hard, it may be hard to find pseudo-mystical bullshit in X2. Sorry if any of us have disappointed you by not trying to find the DEEP SECRET MEANINGS OF THE UNIVERSE hidden in the film.
 
 
bio k9
17:03 / 07.05.03
After all, its not like Grant Morrison wrote it or anything...
 
 
The Puck
21:43 / 07.05.03
I think poeple have missunderstood me, when i put meaningful exchange it was surrounded in speech marks which i hope would signify sarcasm. I find nothing wrong with intresting, witty, and thoughtful dialoge and thats why i WASNT impressed with the film which i thought was on the whole cardboard and cliched, that wouldnt have been ok if the action sequances where great but to be honest they wasnt. Anyone else think think the film makers cared too much about the guidence rating?
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
21:49 / 07.05.03
If anyone can be bothered, I felt compelled to comment:

ho hum.

i like pop, fools.

pop.

not pap.

i can't join your love-in. I think the key to understanding this film is to realise it was made for fanboys, with the knowledge that any old blockbuster with good sfx and known stars will score at least a 100 million off the general public too. But catering to the x-fan is not such a good idea. Cos Claremont doesn't rock the screen. He cocks the screen.

I'm fine.

You okay?

Yeah.

Patrick Stewart was dull beyond belief. McKellan was a hoot. Mystique – yeah. Deathstrike: why? Wolverine in the naked tunnel scream shot. Phwoar! Elsewhere forget it: ahh, so beautiful when they touch hands through the ice. No. Just silly. Think about it.

Silly.

So, why the fuck kidnap 6 kids? Don’t kidnap kids in films please. It’s always awkward. Unless you torture them. Like in Funny Games. Now there’s a film will pseudo-mystical bullshit galore…..look it up. You’ll thank me.

But no need.

Cerebro effect was awful wasn’t it. Washed out shit. The dull aluminium (flux=aluminum) fuzz washed across the entire set was soooooo monotonous on the eye.

Talking of pop, nightcrawler was a treat; the trace of blue atoms lost in teleportation (don’t correct me if I’m wrong) a truly new Hollywood trick. Just a shame, as said elsewhere, this wasn’t an independent attack, unlinked to the absurd nape of neck control joke orchestrated by a bland Brian Cox, poorly styled, badly accented and gravely pockmarked. Charisma points: nil pwan.

Some nice Sin City revenge doled out on him with the chain across the face technique, but strangely out of place in tone and yes, of course, you’re right; he should have been dead by this point.

While we’re at the dam, let us concur that jean’s sacrifice made no sense to the non x-fan. Jean’s fight with Scott made no sense to the non x-fan. Jean’s relationship with Scott made no sense to the non x-fan. Scott made no sense to the non x–fan!

But thank god those kids are safe!

Magneto’s prison escape was again, another truly great Hollywood mo. Awesome. The only time the grey metal sets looked good. Fuckin awesome. Brutal. Sick. Nasty. Thass more like it!!!

Xavier’s stopwatch bollocks was so badly judged, man. Ooof. A byte of the Matrix before the main course is served on May 23rd. As for Storm and her daft powers: how funny was that keystone kop caper with the tornadoes?

I’ll not go into how confusing the spastic man-kid mind control Xavier little girl two cerebra’s where the fuck are we debacle was. And that’s coming from someone who’s supposedly into all that shit!

This film was way too serious. Where was the fun? The lightness of touch? The magic of being different? It was relentlessly grim. The only fun I had was watching Famke Jansen and the scriptwriters commit suicide. And getting so excited over Pyro? Stop it: the build-up, the pain or any real sense of betrayal just wasn’t there. His switch of allegiance was rendered meaningless. Rogue’s powers are still a mystery to the casual viewer. As are her vocal chords.

But thank god those kids are safe!

You okay?

I’m fine.

Let’s make one thing clear; the underlying themes of betrayal, spirituality, family, quest blah etc which were clearly signposted in the original Star Wars films are not made clear in the x-series. Nobody remembers Liberty Island from the first film. It was hardly iconic stuff after all. It weren’t no death star explosion chaps. Nobody picked up on the phoenix tasters. Nobody apart from you lot. There’s little point in juxtaposing the films unless you want to talk about how Singer may have tried to imbue a sense of Empire Strikes within this film cos he’s a fanboy himself and even tho it doesn’t make any sense to do it, fuck it, he’ll do it any way. I felt it myself, when I saw logan in the snow heading off somewhere or other but he was back with the team far too early in the film for the viewer to feel he’d been on any kind of serious quest or investigation.

Halle Berry? Well even our resident x-cock didn’t rate her, so I’ll hold of. Nice white blouse tho, eh lads! I like to think of her practicing that dumb eye roll she does when she ‘storms’! Method acting that. Fuckin gallus.

Such a shame nightcrawler wasn’t given a chance to shine. He could have saved this film. His absurd proclamations should have been given free reign and his glumness may have lifted. Teleported into the wrong film yeah?

Once was enough for me.

PS. Fluxy: I kinda picture you as that sad twat in the chair with all the cables and pistons and shit in his back.

I hope I’m wrong, but I just gotta feeling on this one….

Ha ha

boing.

On a final note: Two Towers IS episodic. But it’s so masterful in it’s presentation that any comparison to X2 belittles the former film’s considerable achievements that history will surely acknowledge.

True.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
21:57 / 07.05.03
fluxy spunked:

Yawn, I think that even if you try very hard, it may be hard to find pseudo-mystical bullshit in X2. Sorry if any of us have disappointed you by not trying to find the DEEP SECRET MEANINGS OF THE UNIVERSE hidden in the film.

Yawns spunks back:

fluxy; guess I'll have to wait for X3 and the pseudo-mystical phoenix bullshit then!

and no need to apologise, you blind, unthinking twat.
 
 
Jack Fear
21:59 / 07.05.03
So, the message again: disagree with Yawn and you are BAD STUPID SAD AND WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Jesus fuck, man, can ye brook no dissent?
 
 
Jack Fear
22:03 / 07.05.03
I mean, I too am rolling my eyes at the "Cry Havok and let slip the dogs of fanfic" turn this thread's taken, but God... let the kids have their fun, eh?

Yeh thinskinned killjoy cunt yeh.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
22:05 / 07.05.03
To Jack:

only from you, freak.

only from you.

but you got me wrong anyway. don't just jump in.

I am the dissent.

there was far too much film fucking going on here for an intelligent board like barbelith. the film was barely okay in my opinion. two great scenes do not make a film for me.

And the greatest crime? As stated: the overwrought seriousness.

SO

BADLY

JUDGED

IMO

And Fear: back off chap; fluxy's got some kind off anti-crush on me. He's always pestering me. I'm just slapping his baws a wee bit.

Can ye no see?
 
 
Jack Fear
22:17 / 07.05.03
And there's a difference between

"I beg to differ"

versus

"What the fuck is WRONG with allah youse? D'ye no see what a peesashite was this fillum, like?"

Now, I haven't seen it, myself—but if I like and you don't, that doesn't make you WRONG.

Being rude to the very people whose intelligence you profess to admire, though...
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
22:28 / 07.05.03
I'm not going to argue wivya.

I felt a reply was necessary.

I think you'll find there was more aggression directed at those who haven't raved about the film if you follow the entire thread. I happen to fall into the non-raver category. I was accused of looking for too much meaning and painted as some kinda sad hippy. If only they knew.....

so.

tell me off once more and we'll leave it at that.
 
 
some guy
23:25 / 07.05.03
Yawn, you're wrong about the film catering to fanboys. I was the only person in a group of five who even reads comics at all, and everyone understood the film. Enjoyed it, too.
 
  

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