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X Men 2 (HUGE FUCKING SPOILERS)

 
  

Page: 123(4)5678

 
 
deja_vroom
13:29 / 05.05.03
Ok. I saw it on Friday and will see it today again.
My so precious thoughts.
First, anyone who has ever read Grant Morrison's New X-Men will complain about this movie, because the concepts in the comic are much shinier and attractive. *But* the movie managed to incorporate a few of the New X-men's concepts, which was already great: the heroes being called "teachers", Prof. X's telepathy being used in majestic, greater-than-life scale (freezing people, fuck yeah!) and so on.

I also thought that the pacing was a little bit too slow for my tastes. Talktalktalk, then some lenghty oral explanations about the over-complicated plot, plus scenes of people entering abandoned facilities for what it seemed to be hours, etc...

The film started great, but I guess I was expecting more action, more fun. This is not to say that I didn't absolutely *loved* the action bits. It's just that the second half of the movie was sort of a let down, an anticlimax. Now for the action bits:

1 - Fuck-Yeah-Wolverine starts to resemble the killing machine from the comics (I still would like to see him go "red" as in the eighties, when he would go mental and even friends wouldn't get closer to him). The only moment in the whole movie where I was really touched was when he got flashes of the weapon-x experiment. when he is screaming, looking at his claws and covered in blood. *That's* what I call great cinema. A couple of seconds and you're dragged into the horror that Logan must have felt.

Also, the fight scene between him and Lady Lethal in the end was one of the most uncomfortable scenes I've ever see. Her nails piercing his chest repeatedly. Eugh. I heard some people sitting next to me who went "Ow. Ow. Ow.". Also the way he kills her. COuldn't help but feel sorry for her in the end. It was so sad.

2 - The opening with Nightcrawler. Or Fuck-Yeah-Nightcrawler rocked. That christian gibberish was there, as usual these days, to lend an appearance of deepness to the character, but it felt too... unnatural.

3 - Magneto's escape scene: Eat that, Hannibal Lecter!

There's more I'd like to talk, but I'll leave it like that. All in all, pretty good fun, and it's always nice to see people injecting money to bring some of the cherished super-heroes of my childhood some inches closer to real life. I'm already waiting for Fuck-Yeah-X3.
 
 
glassonion
13:29 / 05.05.03
best. superheromovie. ever: [since everybody's got their best geek-wear on for this one]

artie's the kid with the tongue, storm calls him by name in the museum scene, same as on the computer screen. and berry's no that bad. isn't storm meant to have kind of..stil--ted speech patt-urns? and she's always meant to be the leader when cyclops is too upset. hooking up with the blue guy too. colossus was the best character in the movie by far though 'i can help you' i.e he could just stroll through the soldiers and smash all the helicopters and not have a mental twitch at the guy who's doing it and sort the whole thing out basically. lots more of him, smashing sentinels, in the next film i reckon. is it totally unreasonable to think that kitty just took off when the soldiers attacked and went and did the whole documents-theft thing herself, or did we definitely see her run off down the secret tunnel with peter and the other kids? i don't think the x-men were all really crammed in the oval office, only nightcrawler was and charlie did the rest. the moment in that scene where cyclops holds the tears but stands firm and backs xavier up anyway, that was a dead-on character moment that made up for him hardly being in it.

but there's so much more. so many good bits. magneto and mystique in the corner of the jet whispering and giggling like psychopaths, taking the piss out of rogue who they nearly super-villained to death in the last movie. awkward moments with bobby's family [it's always his family isn't it?], bobby icing-up will surely be the solution to his and rogue's dilemma. logan and deathstrike hitting each other a lot with big claws [i just call him logan now, like i did when i was twelve. it's like he's part of the family again right now]. magneto busting out, showing you just what a bit of concentration can do. mystique like all the baddest bond girls. pyro's 'i'm a right little badarse me' bit before he gets the fireballs out.

there was a round of applause, still pretty uncommon, after this movie, but a round of applause plus a whoop and a cheer or two for the matrix trailer. trailer. fucking bring that film on as well.
 
 
Lurid Archive
13:32 / 05.05.03
Well, I think part of the perception of Magneto in this sequel stems from the fact that he is more abused than abuser through much of it. Stryker is the villain who manipulates and controls in order to exterminate the mutants. The fact that Magneto takes this in his stride - he knows they are out to get him - makes you see him as more of a freedom fighter.

OK, thats perhaps overstating it, but there is definitely more of a sense that Magneto has some justification for taking his stance. (Mind you, my memory of the first film is extremely dim.)

As for trying to destroy humanity...did he really expect to succeed? Or was it more of a stalling tactic to allow him to escape? Perhaps a propoganda blow to really start the war and get the Xmen on side?

Re: the "hair". Magneto thinks the Xmen are pathetic apologists for a bigoted, anti mutant society, doesn't he? A bit of teasing seems perfectly understandable to me. But then I was behind him all the way.
 
 
Ganesh
13:55 / 05.05.03
Sure. The 'freedom fighter' stuff is all apposite enough, but I was still struck by the fact that there didn't seem to be any hint of remorse or regret when faced with the child he'd attempted to sacrifice in the first film. That struck me as a little too callous for the character.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:05 / 05.05.03
Aside from his moment with Rogue, there were plenty of cases in which Magneto was definitely not playing the hero - he sells out the X-Men, he attempts to wipe out humanity, he uses the X-Men and then leaves them for dead. I think they portrayed Magneto exactly as he should be - not as a shrill over-the-top villain, but as a charismatic extremist with a formidable intellect and penchant for manipulation. He's a megalomaniacal sociopath, and you can't take that away from the character without significantly sacrificing the essence of the character.
 
 
Jack Fear
14:52 / 05.05.03
What's all this hoo-hah about Mystique being Nightcrawler's mother?

I always thought she was his father...
 
 
MJ-12
14:56 / 05.05.03
No, Jack. Nightcrawler is her daughter and her sister.
 
 
Hieronymus
15:00 / 05.05.03
Well the numbers are in. 85.8 million bucks over the weekend. That's a nice chunka change.
 
 
sleazenation
15:43 / 05.05.03
flux sez...
Aside from his moment with Rogue, there were plenty of cases in which Magneto was definitely not playing the hero - he sells out the X-Men


actually i never felt magneto was selling out the x-men since it was invoulentarily - he was drugged and abused by stryker and his guards. You could argue that magneto was strong enough to resist the drug, but betrayed xavier and used the drug as an excuse but its a far from convincing scenario.
 
 
houdini
15:50 / 05.05.03

Claremont's original idea was that Mystique was going to be Nightcrawler's father and Destiny, Mystique's lover, was his mother.

Unsurprisingly, the 1980's Marvel editorial staff were not entirely enamoured of this idea. It eventually got recycled into Mystique being Nighty's mum instead, but that didn't happen until post-Claremont, which is The Dark Times as far as my X-fu goes.
 
 
Jack Fear
16:05 / 05.05.03
What utter gutless wimpfuckery.

This sort of thing, my friends, is at the root of my animus towards franchises: it's nearly impossible to do anything within their confines that is either interesting or lasting, let alone both.

Thanks for the info, Harry.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:23 / 05.05.03
First, anyone who has ever read Grant Morrison's New X-Men will complain about this movie, because the concepts in the comic are much shinier and attractive.

Read. The thread. You're posting in. You muppet. Lots of people here read NXM and loved this movie, and... fuck, why do I even bother?

To join in the most recent sub-topic: I loved the characterisation of Magneto in this film. The slippery old bastard: he'll haul your ass out of the fire if he needs you for his own purposes, but he'll always stab you in the back if there's a chance to kill several billion homo sapiens instead... But he's not inhuman: witness the genuinely appalled, ashamed look that takes over, moments after he's been mocking Xavier, when he confesses that Stryker's interrogation broke him: "I'm sorry, Charles..." And I think in this one they really got across how charismatic and seductive the man is - he's a cult leader, after all. A lot of this is due to McKellen's performance, effortlessly masterful (and evidently given full reign to queen it up, if you'll pardon my expression - am thinking of the "hair" comment to Rogue, which I think nicely reflects he has a cruel side even where other mutants are concerned). Again, this is why I think Pyro is great, because it's important to show that some young mutants will be drawn to Magneto's ideology, and why. In the first film, the Brotherhood as a whole were a bit too "we're just Evil!" (thank God no Sabretooth in this one), here with the extra personality added to Mystique, and Pyro, you get a sense of what the appeal of the Brotherhood is, without the sense of how fucking murderous they are ever being toned down.

This is mirrored equally well by the added shades of grey to Xavier. A lot of this has been covered already: I think using Kitty to steal files is the kind of thing the Professor might well do, and always has been partial to, in the comic mythos as well - and not just when he's turned eeeevil. But I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the fact that Xavier has known who Logan is since he was first brought to the school, yet keeps this from him, preferring to feed him clues so he can discover for himself - all with Logan's own best interests at heart, of course, in EXACTLY the kind of dubiously paternalistic manner that arguably comes from being such a powerful individual and being utterly convinced of the rightness of your own beliefs. It borders on playing God - or maybe playing chess with real people, eh? - and I think the best writers of the character in the comic, Morrison not least among them, have always included this.

There's also the fact that Xavier's previous dealings with Stryker aren't clarified 100% - if Chuck knows who Logan is, then was Stryker already running a Weapon X type programme when Xavier took in his son as a pupil? Did Xavier think he could win Stryker round that way? How, exactly, did this arrangement go sour - the implication is that Stryker thought Xavier would make his son's mutant abilities go away, and when this didn't work he lobotomised the kid himself, but I'm not convinced Charlie didn't fuck up in some unspecified way - adds to general theme of culpability in the film.

Oh, and why are people always, *always* taking over Chuck's head? Duh, because it's the most powerful weapon on the planet, yada yada. I got a real kick out of the fact that Stryker's method of getting rid of mutants is essentially the same as Cassandra Nova's - although of course attacking the school, taking over Xavier's head and sticking him in Cerebro was done by basically the same character as the film version of Stryker in Ultimate X-Men.

Much as I hate to say this, some of the edge given to the Professor reminded me, in a good way, or the way Mark Millar writes him in that comic: the threat to Logan "you'll spend the rest of your life under the illusion that you are a six year old girl.... I'll have Jean braid your hair" - pure Millar/Morrison. This was also evident in the confrontation with the President, although here's where it becomes a bad thing - like a couple of other people, I didn't buy that scene. People have joked about the merits of Anna Paquin, but in all seriousness I can't see how that scene has any purpose other than to get Bobby and Rogue into uniform. What I would have preferred, since we'e going for that Empire Strikes Back/Wrath of Khan downbeat feel, would have been the Pres going ahead and delivering a Dubya-esque address full of anti-mutant sentiment but no specific policy - ie, the Sentinels aren't about to start squashing people, the Mutant Registration act hasn't even been passed, but things look pretty scary and uncertain for mutants in the USA in the near future. I think having saved the lives of every human being on the planet is all the victory the X-Men need: the odds can still be stacked horribly against the 'dream' at the end of this film without it being *too* depressing...

Speaking of which, does Xavier sense that Jean's still out there somewhere, when he looks out of the window and then says "I think it will be" when asked if everything's alright? I really half expected him to say "Jean?" and then shake it off... Glad they didn't drop the anvil that heavily...

More to come, I tell you!
 
 
deja_vroom
17:23 / 05.05.03
Flyboy"Read. The thread. You're posting in. You muppet. Lots of people here read NXM and loved this movie."

It should have been, of course "I, having read new x-men, have complaints... etc". Or even "I sense that anyone who read the comics won't think twice when answering that they would like more concepts of the comics into the movie", or "the movie is not as good as the comics" etc. I apologise. You can stop flapping these tiny arms of you now. Nice and quiet, kid, nice and quiet.
 
 
Tamayyurt
17:32 / 05.05.03
That last scene (whether it works or not) reminded me of the Authority. with Wolverine closing comments, "We'll be watching you." I think this hurt them more than they think. The president being an utter pussy is now afraid of them and will probably send out the giant robots to fuck'em up.

And about Rogue and Bobby in uniform. That's exactly why I think it's was all a mental projection. I mean, they aren't getting uniforms anytime soon. This is just how they see themselves after the battle. They see themselves as X-Men so they project themselves wearing the uniforms.
 
 
Quimper
17:38 / 05.05.03
I just wanted to say that Bryan Singer officially "gets" the X-men IMO after seeing that scene in the Oval Office at the end. Scary, creepy, mindfuck, weirdo shit. Storm staring at him. Nightcrawler waves and smirks. Logan: "We'll be watching." Scott Summers suppressing the tears that his Cyclops persona is not allowed to have. Iceman. Rogue. The Official X-men. I almost creamed my pants.

Best line...Magneto: "Love what you've done with your hair." Mystique and Mags as bitchy high school girls. Hysterial.
 
 
Seth
21:11 / 05.05.03
On the subject of Xavier playing God... I've seen the movie twice now, and there a couple of shots in the Blackbird at the end which indicate that he's aware that Jean is leaving. I think he chooses not to tell anyone until she's beyond their reach.

The film really doesn't have any obligation to acknowledge what Grant Morrison is doing. The only thing that's possibly worth salvaging from New X-Men is his depiction of a spectrum of attitudes towards mutants other than just fear (envy, fascination, etc). On the scale of great X-Men storylines his work is way down the list.

Did anyone else think that Mrs Drake's "Have you tried not being a mutant" was a direct Buffy homage?
 
 
Brigade du jour
21:20 / 05.05.03
Oh. My. God. This. Movie. Fucking. Rocks.

It's no good, I just can't convey the emotion and excitement in my voice when I say that out loud.

Pretty brave killing off Jeanie too. Glad I'm not the only one who X2 reminded of Empire Strikes Back. Would have felt like a right wally.
 
 
Mr Tricks
23:17 / 05.05.03
Yippeeeeeee!!!

it felt so nice to be 12 years old again... that said my 2cents:

Question, though, for those more versed in the lore than I: what was the story behind the original manifestation of the Phoenix?

  • Uncanny X-men circa 111? After escaping from the Orbital Platform of the latest Sentinal program The X-man are in a damaged Space shuttle falling into the atmosphere. Jean Grey gets everyone to climb into the containment cells originally used to ship them (unconscious & de-powered) into space. It's believed that in those cells they would be protected from the Ambient radiation leaking through the damaged shielding. Jean uses her TK abilities to guide the ship into a crash landing (rather than get burned up in the atmosphere) in Jamacia Bay NYC. As the shuttle sinks the team is flowndering in the water when PHOENIX rises from under the waves...
    Later it's revealed that while attempting to fly the space shuttle Jean contacts the PHOENIX force who agrees to place her body into a cocoon to heal while it take Jean's place, duplicating her consciousness & creating a new body to house both the consciousness & the Phoenix force...


YES...Better than the wrath of Khan & Empire strikes back as sequels go...

MAGNETO!!!!
Such a perfect portrail of that "villian", "evil" without being rude, except to wolverine who he kept verbally cutting down & that business with the chains on stryker...very mythic.
Later I realised how much of a genious he was? When stryker used that mind-control serium on magneto to get the info about Xavier's school, Magneto was still 2 steps ahead. Not only does he give stryker the plans to create a modified Cerebro that could kill all mutants but with-in those plans is the means to reconfigure the cerebro so that it could kill all humans. Though he was sacraficing the X-men he was also expecting to some how escape to be able to do the reconfiguring... AND what an escape it was...

Mystique's good"..."You have no idea..."
Did it strike anyone else that after being rejected by Wolvie she spent the rest of the night with Magneto's Magnetic pole?

She rocked So HARD this movie... more lines,and more super spy action... Plus: in human form she was wareing a blue snake skinned minidress..."QUITE A FASHION STATEMENT" as my girlfriend said...

"When will these people learn how to fly?!?"
"we love what you've done with your hair"

Oh the social Darwinism... She survived, and Magneto seems pleased enough by that fact to be cruel to her... something he seems to save only for those he particularly enjoys.

How about Bobbie "coming out" to his folks... What a messed up brother!!! & Profesor Logan teacher of ARRRRRRRRRHHT!!!

The Iceman/Rogue romance was handled so well. Rogue of the movies is a much more sympathetic charactor...so her minor victorieshad big impacts; using her mutant powers to stop Pyro's temper tantrum, flying the X-plane/blackbird for the first time. And of course getting it on with Iceman in the bedroom... she was all we can't touch (much) but you can watch me undress....

I figure Kitty caught up with Colossus & the other kids in the woods. And while on the topic of the coolest transformation into organic steel... HE MUST GRADUATE TO THE X-MEN at the very start of X3. It was nice to see him in the professor's office at the very end as the lesson of the once & future King began.

And honorable metion to Siryn whose sonic scream alerted the whole school to trouble and slowed the soldiers down just enough!!!

Did anyone else get echoes of the U-men whith how those guns fired darts?

Favorate line in the movie:
"En Zee Munich Zircus I vas Kown aS Zee aMazingk Night-Craowler!!!"
HOW BADASS WAS that blue skined mutant elf!?!?!? He was acted SO well... a perfect blend of comedy-tragady-soul. STORM falling for him also cool... "I have faith in you..." indeed.
The Teleportation was actualized SOOOO well.
His saving Rogue from falling out of the airplane got the crowd cheering!!!
His prayers added a tastey dramatic impact as well... perfect portrayal of the charactor.
Sort of felt sorry for those secret servicemen who had no idea what they where up against. They didn't have a chance!!! & later when they all return to the white house & he's all waving to the president!!! again F U N N Y...
Also his tail wagging after his chat with Mystique...
The bit where magneto knows he's snooping in on them while camping...
And of course the chat with Storm anger vs. faith in terms of helping you survive.

Much better Storm, team leadership soon?

Will X3 open with the funeral? Hope so...

Classic Storm vs. Mastermind showdown... riped from the pages of issue 175 of Uncanny X-man...

Wolverine is so mean to Nightcrawler... "save it"

Rogue want to dress in leather... but must be satisfied with her Jr. X-men uniform.

Poor brainwashed Cyclops...

And that opening title sequence that Shows professor X in his Astral form...out of body. Not everyone caught it but that was him floating around in the cosmos observing the earth...

Many nice tips of the hat to Morrison...

I thought the whitehouse bit was clumsy. Professor makes everyone catatonic and they all strool into the Oval office. Professor then makes the President catatonic so it appears like they leave in the blink of an eye when they are actually just walking out.

X3:
My wish for a villian Proteus...
Marc Singer has mentioned him on some internet interview I saw.
Perfect lead-in with Him escaping confinement after being temporarilly connected with the Professor (durring the kill all mutants bit), sure let make him Professor X's son ala Ultimate X!!!
let's also give him a cassandraesque predatory nature. Put Muir Island somewhere between Greenland & Canada & have the X-men hunt him through the tundra as he makes his way to Awaken Jean, dormant under the frozen lake, hoping to feast on her powers...

Get the professor into the limelight after 2 movies of him getting jacked...

Introduce Moria Mactaggert who's kept their son a secret from Charles...

Bring Multiple Man so one of his doubles can get eaten...

How about Banshee?

Throw Hank & Warren in right at the begining... they arrive for the funeral and stick around...

Meanwhile Sentinals attack the mansion... sure why not!!!


Or the Hellfire CLUB...

Sebastian Shaw, get's the contract for building Sentinals now that Stryker is dead.
P.S. it was Stryker who built Magneto's prision

Meanwhile he's recruiting Magneto to become a member...

How about having Donald Peirce competing with Shaw for the contract so there's plenty of back stabbing action between Mag's, Shaw & Peirce...

Introduce Emma Frost...

Perhaps they've found Jean in the lake still semi-conscious and are grooming her for membership with the club?

Jeeze I honestly have no idea how X3 will play out... G R E A T!!!
 
 
houdini
23:22 / 05.05.03

Something that I'm interested that nobody's picked up on is the statement of Stryker's that Logan [b]volunteered[/b] for the Weapon X program. Of course, it's possible that Stryker was lying, but given what he goes on to say to Logan about "If you knew what we did together before then..." - which is clearly a reference to Wolvie's dubious past as an assassin and commando - makes me think that Stryker was on the level in that case.

Overall, the movie rocked very hard and was, IMO, a huge improvement over the first one. Coupla wee niggles though:

1) I was a bit taken aback by the X-Men just leaving Jason Stryker/Mastermind? to die in the collapsing Cerebero 2. I would've liked to've seen at least an effort to save him.

2) If Magneto already knew about Wolverine's origin and all is it really convincing that he was ignorant of Alkali Lake? That seems a little forced to me.

3) Also forced was Jean's death. It really wasn't clear if she was getting out of the plane so she could hold the water back, or because her nascent Phoenix power had scrambled it. For that matter, why did the jet stop working right then? Was it meant to be Jeannie's doing or was it the result of Rogue's less-than-perfect landing? None of this was a huge issue to me but I felt they could've handled the whole thing with very minor changes and added a bit more grace to it. Maybe they're all on the jet getting ready to take off and it won't work and then they realize Jean is still out and she starts lifting the jet.... I don't quite know, but the whole thing could've been a tad bit smoother.

4) I'm not sure I can reconcile Magneto's obvious sorrow at having "betrayed" the X-Men with his callously leaving Charles to die in Cerebero 2 ("Goodbye, Charles. We won't meet again.") and gloating over what he did to Rogue ("We love what you've done with your hair."). Each of those scenes were individually great, particularly the scene where Rogue clocks Magneto and starts taking her gloves off, but overall they don't quite connect to make a whole. Mags in X1 was really Lee & Kirby's bucketheaded demagogue and his pro-mutant posturings were more along the lines of a Von Doom rant than a substantial philosophy. It was obvious that, under the influence of 'God Loves, Man Kills', they were trying for the mid-Claremont sympathetic Mags in this movie but it felt a little incoherent.

4) Damn it! I just wish Cyclops and Jean would've gotten one decent love scene and Scott would've gotten one chance to kick ass. Surely that's not too much to ask, is it? Everybody else got to do something cool in the movie, all Scott gets is the Deathstrike Beatdown and the cold comfort that Jean chose him over Wolverine. Maybe Marsden can't act, but I wish he and Janssen had been able / given the chance to conjure 10% of the chemistry she managed with Jackman. A lot will be riding on the Jean/Scott relationship in X3 if she goes Dark Phoenix (which she pretty much will) and it could really do with being a little more plausible.

Of all these moans, only the last one's really substantial. This film blew it's predecessor out of the water, along with 2 Star Wars movies, and 'The Twin Towers'. Great stuff. I'll be inscaping to it again later in the week.

Cheers,

- Hou.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
23:50 / 05.05.03
Dude! Marc Singer was my high school's librarian. Bryan Singer directed the X-Men movies. Get it straight!

I do agree that the Proteus story would be an excellent story to be adapted to film, but I seriously think it should wait for X5.

I thought about this for a bit, and I think they ought to take a page from the Matrix/Lord of the Rings book and shoot the next two or three all at once and release them fairly close together.

Were it up to me, I'd structure the story this way:

X3 starts with the X-Men rescuing Colossus, Kitty, and the rest of the children in the Morlock tunnels. Meanwhile, due to the events of the first two films, Project Wideawake is put into motion and the Sentinels are introduced. They are very similar to the Sentinels of New X-Men, and are terrifying. Perhaps later on in the film, we see giant floating Master Molds which resemble the original Sentinel design. We see them flying over a city, like in the first story arc from Ultimate X-Men.

Forge is the man behind the Sentinels, and he works for Bolivar Trask. Dr. Henry McCoy was working for the government, but his recent physical mutation has involuntarily outed him - he seeks refuge with Charles Xavier, and warns him of the Sentinels.

Meanwhile, Magneto and his Brotherhood (Mystique, Pyro, Sabretooth (who is contractually bound to appear in another X-Men movie), Quicksilver, and the Scarlet Witch) are hatching their own plot to destroy the Sentinels. The Sentinels strike first, wiping out the Morlocks in the tunnels, and Magneto is killed in the final battle. The film should end on a cliffhanger - Jean Grey is alive!

X4 should be an approximation of the Phoenix storyline, with the Hellfire Club (Sebastian Shaw, Emma Frost, Tessa, Harry Leland, Donald Pierce, Warren "Archangel" Worthington III) along for the ride. The story should end with Jean dead for a second time, and several X-Men hurt and sent off to Muir Island. Cyclops quits the X-Men for good.

X5 should be the Proteus story, beginning with the X-Men resting up on Muir Island. I think a lot of this version of the story should be adapted from Mark Millar's Ultimate X-Men version - I prefer the idea that Dr. Moira McTaggert is Xavier's ex-wife, and that Proteus is Xavier's illegitimate son, conflated with Legion. Among the mutants that we meet on Muir Island is Elizabeth "Psylocke" Braddock, Banshee (who ends up being murdered halfway through...), and Remy "Gambit" LeBeau. I would change LeBeau's nationality to French for sake of convenience, and that a thick French accent would probably be a lot easier to take than a bad Cajun one. The story ends as it should with Colossus killing Proteus.

How does that sound?
 
 
some guy
00:07 / 06.05.03
if Chuck knows who Logan is

It's pretty clear that he doesn't actually know, but got the Alkali Lake bit telepathically. In X1 he's "never seen anything like this before," remember. Ditto Magneto: "Does that remarkable metal run through your body?" or somesuch in the first film.

Re: the upbeat ending - in the original edit (or script), after Xavier says he thinks everything will be alright, it cuts to the activation of the first Sentinel. He misread the president after all. The White House scene obviously wasn't a projection because of the dossier. We'd seen earlier that Xavier can mentally "pause" groups of people and move about undetected in the museum - the same scene that sets up Jean's powers putting electronics (like the jet) on the fritz).
 
 
PatrickMM
00:07 / 06.05.03
A couple more thoughts:


The Magneto escape scene was simply incredible, the visual style and majesty in that sequence was awesome. It reminded me of the shot in the original X-Men where Magneto went up to the torch, but it was even better than that. On a similar note, the grenade sequence was brilliant also.

Mystique was incredible. In the first movie, she was basically a cool special effect, here she was a complete character, and worked perfectly. The scene where she seduces Logan as Jean Grey was another awesome scene.

Logan with the bloody claws was another incredible sequence.

Some people have said that the end of the film felt like an anticlimax, but I enjoyed it quite a bit. Too many "big" action movies don't have the feeling that everyone's life, and everything is on the line at the end. Here, the flood gave an urgency to events, and while it reminded me a bit of countless X-Files episodes, Wolverine's conflict over whether to find about the government secrets, or save his own life and those of his friends, was a very strong sequence.

And, the sound effect of Lady Deathstrike hitting the water was one of the best sound effects ever.

However, there were a number of things that bothered me about the movie.

Magneto felt like too much of a villain. Abandoning Charles at the end to kill the human race at the end didn't feel true to their friendship and mutual respect. And I thought his cutting out at the end felt a bit off from what the character had done previously. Maybe I'm just partial to the character, but I would have liked even more ambiguity about his actions.

It felt like the Rogue/Bobby plot vanished entirely in the second half of the film, and I would have liked to at least seen a bit more with them.

Still, the movie was excellent, and X3 can't come soon enough.
 
 
CameronStewart
02:53 / 06.05.03
>>>X3 starts with the X-Men rescuing Colossus, Kitty, and the rest of the children in the Morlock tunnels. <<<

Ah, but in the final scene in X2, in Xavier's study, we see that Colossus and the kids are all back at the mansion, safe and sound.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
03:02 / 06.05.03
Really?

Well, instead, they should start it off with the X-Men investigating the tunnels and finding the Morlocks. The Morlocks would be so perfect for the story I have in mind, because they are an obvious first target for the Sentinels - the government can test the machines effectiveness on a sect of mutants without normal people knowing about it. It conflates the Morlock and Genoshan massacres very nicely, and I think the dark creepy tunnels would lend themselves to the Quitely version of the Sentinels rather well. They could make some very, very scary sequences and not have to show too much either.
 
 
perceval
10:29 / 06.05.03

Well, X3 seems like it'll center on Phoenix. And, given that he just tried to force Charles to exterminate humanity, Magneto will still be the Big Bad. I'd say those two are pretty well given. From there...

We saw Charles and Erik both reading The Once and Future King, so that'll be significant. The concept of the late monarch returning when most needed would certainly fit Jean. But, since both Charles AND Erik were reading the book, who finds her first? Rising from the waters, Jean would also qualify as the Lady of the Lake.

Chess has played a role in both movies. The first one ended with Charles and Erik playing, symbolising the game they're playing on a large scale. In X2, when they're discussing the possibility of Magneto being behind the attack on the White House, Scott thinks he is, but Jean, correctly, decides he's not, understanding their foe better than their tactician. While she's explaining this, she sitting behind the black side of the chessboard, and playing with the black pieces. Was this just a nod to her days as the Black Queen of the Hellfire Club, or forshadowing? Well, they DID introduce Sebastian Shaw, the Club's Black King. In the comics, Magneto was, for a time, the Club's White King.

So, if we see the Hellfire Club (the main villains in the original Phoenix storyline) in X3 (Who to cast as Emma and Tessa?), the Once and Future King reference could also apply to Erik, as the White King returns to the fold, with his godlike Black Queen. There could be another cast addition, here. Erik would play the opening move in his latest game with Charles, his biggest game, yet. The opening move in chess is, of course, a gambit.

E
 
 
some guy
10:33 / 06.05.03
I think the films should leave the Morlocks out completely - too cheesy. Having said that - giant Kirby Sentinels or none at all, please. I like the idea of the Hellfire Club finding Jean's body, with Magneto as White King. There's not really any reason to throw more elements into that story, and all of the Hellfire Club mutants could be realized pretty cheaply.

X3 needs Colossus as a full-time X-Man, with Kitty in a Rogue-sized role.
 
 
Sebastian
12:42 / 06.05.03
Flyboy: does Xavier sense that Jean's still out there somewhere, when he looks out of the window and then says "I think it will be" when asked if everything's alright?

I'd say so. If I recall correctly, amidst waves of yawns, the next scene was the closing one, with the camera flying over the lake and the silhouette coming up.

Impulsivelad: That last scene (whether it works or not) reminded me of the Authority.

I was so irritated by the seemingly mandatory presidential confrontation that when Logan uttered that phrase: "We'll be watching you" I thought I was going to throw something to the screen. For me, unless the scene ties into continuity with a next movie, it remains perfectly forgettable, since for the plot there was no need at all to show again anything about the president, nor even to pull the X-Men to the stand of actually "watching" this or any president beyond what is seen on open TV. That's other "super-heroes" roles. Think of Hawksmoor, Jenny Sparks. The X-Men, professor included, and mostly in the movie version, are kiddies who have not yet realised they are in the kinder.

And about Rogue and Bobby in uniform. That's exactly why I think it's was all a mental projection.

I agree. Actually the X-Men take the places of the camera crew and the presidential staff in the room, within the virtual/real scenario that is created in the mind of the "president". I don't take they "teleported" there.
 
 
some guy
13:11 / 06.05.03
For me, unless the scene ties into continuity with a next movie, it remains perfectly forgettable, since for the plot there was no need at all to show again anything about the president

The original X2 ending cuts from Xavier in the classroom to the activation of the first Sentinel ... which is a direct result of the X-Men visiting the president. I think it's obviously going to be a point of continuity in X3, in much the same way that X2 builds organically out of the original (without Liberty Island the school invasion wouldn't have been authorized).

Actually the X-Men take the places of the camera crew and the presidential staff in the room, within the virtual/real scenario that is created in the mind of the "president". I don't take they "teleported" there.

If the scene is a projection, how does the dossier get there? Why project Scott holding back tears? Why project Nightcrawler lounging around out of uniform? There's no "teleportation." Lord, did anyone watch the movie? In the museum, we see the setup for this payoff - Xavier can telepathically "pause" groups of people. The X-Men waltz out of the museum ... causing them to appear to vanish. Storm obviously shut off the power with a localized storm, Xavier "paused" the reporters and the X-Men simply walked in and out.
 
 
casemaker
13:11 / 06.05.03
Everything I thought about the movie has been said here already. It was fun.

Question: On IMDB they list an actual actor as Remy Lebeau/Gambit and another one as Sebastian Shaw. Did I miss another cameo or were these scenes left out for the feature release?
 
 
deja_vroom
13:27 / 06.05.03
Saw it again yesterday. This lady came in just after the opening scene with Nightcrawler (we call him "Noturno" down here, which would translate as, you guess, "Nocturnal" or something) and asked me "Did it just begun?" I said "Yeah", but thought "but it doesn't matter, you already missed one of the top three scenes, lady".

Did you guys catch the moment when Mystique, who is pretending to be Wolverine, is spotted by Stryker and manages to kick everybody's ass and escape to the computer room? I think I saw her sliding on the ground *giving the finger* to the soldiers, but I'm not sure! She enjoys being evil, doesn't she? I think her favorite cookies are bitch cookies.

Also: I wish there wouldn't be so much panting in the movie. Everybody was "aaf... nngg... pant, pant... nnhh".

And Ian Mckellen... he really took the role seriously enough to seem comfortable with it. The moment Fuck-Yeah-Magneto is re-organizing the room that contains Cerebro 2 (to make Xavier kill all humans), you look at his face maniulating the steel plates and he's making these tiny expressions of concentration and thought... and after he talks to Fuck-Yeah-Pyro he looks at Mystique in such a nasty way, like if saying: "Now let's see if he falls for it".

I think they should do something for Cyclops in the next movie. Show how bad ass he can be. Problem is, that actor, those shades... ack.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:46 / 06.05.03
Lawrence: The Morlocks as they were in the comics may be cheesy, but the concept of a mutant commune underneath NYC is a reasonable idea, and if the Sentinels are to be taken seriously, they really need to wipe out a lot of mutants to make the danger apparent to the audience.
 
 
Bear
13:49 / 06.05.03
Yeah she does give the finger as she slides between the closing doors.

Saw it last night, not as excited as you guys are but I thought it was ok, some nice action but wasn't too impressed with the plot or script but I don't think I was in the right frame of mind for it.

Fun all the same tho.

You think that maybe the Nsync song was foreshadowing of Pyro leaving the group?

Deathstrike rocked!
 
 
videodrome
14:05 / 06.05.03
Lord, did anyone watch the movie?

I've wondered this, as well. J. Hoberman referred to the opening scene as an attack by a shape-shifting assassin, and at least three critics (Anthony Lane and IIRC Hoberman as well) haven't understood why Scott and Jean fought in the dam - or why Nightcrawler attacked the president.

Menawhile, I completely missed Shaw. Where the fuck was he?
 
 
some guy
14:28 / 06.05.03
The Morlocks as they were in the comics may be cheesy, but the concept of a mutant commune underneath NYC is a reasonable idea, and if the Sentinels are to be taken seriously, they really need to wipe out a lot of mutants to make the danger apparent to the audience.

I sort of see your point, but these are movies that are already bloated with too many characters and factions. I'm not sure an underground mutant commune would work in the context of the film world, where we just barely buy the leather costumes and basement. I could see Sentinels exterminating some homeless mutant squatters as fulfilling the exposition need and also nodding to the Morlocks, but the whole underground Manhattan thing?
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
14:57 / 06.05.03
so why the fuck did jean and scott fight in the dam?
 
  

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