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Plane Hits World Trade Center Part 2

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14:45 / 11.09.01

Those palestinian people have all lost children or loved ones recently in explosions and shootings.
They react like that because they get shot & blown up every day, because they have lost those close to them in a violent & senseless way.

dragonthief

14:46 / 11.09.01

quote:Originally posted by E. Randy Dupre:

I'm probably risking a major flaming here, but what do you think the response would have been from the majority of US or UK citizens if, say, their armed forces had destroyed a building of major importance in Iraq during the gulf war?

(1)The situation is not comaparable: Western forces know that their own people would not condone attacks against civilians (remember the outcry over the train in Kosovo?)
(2)If they did conduct such an attack, we would be marching on our parliaments in protest, not handing out sweets to kids and dancing in the streets.

14:46 / 11.09.01

The TV reporters are talking to Oren Hatch and John Mccain, and while they both admit they have no actual idea who is responsible for this, they still blame the Mid-East. That seems to be the Gov't party-line.

A lot of insinuation/propaganda, but no proof.

14:46 / 11.09.01

My Girlfriend says two of her coworkers tried to walk to Grand Central and came back because there was a bomb threat

Ganesh

14:48 / 11.09.01

The Palestinians hardly need prompting to celebrate America being attacked, though, do they?

From the radio: US airbases on Amber Alert. That can't be good...

14:48 / 11.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Ellis:
"Declaration of war against civilisation. Just like Pearl Harbour..." Hague.

not hague. the u.s senator for nebraska.

in terms of civilian deaths, someone else compared it to hiroshima, but i don't know who. some bbc pundit.

angel just pointed out that hilary clinton has been pretty quiet though she's senator for new york. guess after the nebraska guy they gagged all the other senators before it got too inflammatory...

14:48 / 11.09.01

McCain used the expression "act of war" , right? And Hatch said "we'll hunt the bastards"

- Mercury

Ronald Thomas Clontle

14:48 / 11.09.01

quote:Originally posted by the Humble Crab:
Those palestinian people have all lost children or loved ones recently in explosions and shootings.
They react like that because they get shot & blown up every day, because they have lost those close to them in a violent & senseless way.

well, I don't blame them from their perspective, but let's see them cheer when the US gov't reduces them to ashes. Those people must all know they are all going to die, right? They must realise...

14:49 / 11.09.01

Pearl Harbor, but launched from the shadows. Even if we recover the black boxes of the hijacked aircraft and hear recordings of every word spoken in the cockpits, we won’t know for sure if what we’re hearing is real or a frame.

For all the media talk of massive organization and funding, these strikes could be carried out by a few dozen men with guns and digital watches, so the logistic trail will be hard to trace back. Unless, of course, someone claims responsibility and presents evidence that it was them. The only way we’ll know for sure is if someone wants us to.

My suggestion for future airplane security: build planes with separate piloting/crew and passenger compartment, with no way to pass between them. Actually, I remember telling my sister that after we saw the movie “Airplane!”. “But then the stewardesses couldn’t bring them coffee, stupid!” she said.

Ellis

14:50 / 11.09.01

Kooky- William Hague said it in a speech.

14:50 / 11.09.01

When coming from the big guys, it is not "terrorism", as Chomsky said, it is "strategic maneuvers"...

They are already distorting the whole thing out of its seriousness and relevance. They're dumbing down the tone of the news and crediting the attack to "madmen" and "fanatics", to "terror's senseless logic".

This whole story makes me sick. My condolences to all the victims caught between the giant cogs.

14:51 / 11.09.01

quote:Originally posted by E. Randy Dupre:

I'm probably risking a major flaming here, but what do you think the response would have been from the majority of US or UK citizens if, say, their armed forces had destroyed a building of major importance in Iraq during the gulf war?

I will stand behind your point with you. It is not theoretical, anyway, as I clearly remember the Gulf War & the video clips of the smart bombs & general cheering on this side.

Anyway again, how's about this for a test of attempting to enter the mind of your opponent? I don't say this with any disregard for the people killed today, I just say that it would be really revolutionary to be able to hold both perspectives in one's mind, even for just a second. I am deeply afraid --in fact deeply certain-- that the majority of people will jump to the bait & you know, then you're hooked, line & sinker.

14:53 / 11.09.01

By the way, Chicago (since Cherry Bomb hasn’t responded) is fine. Many downtown areas were evacuated, such as the Daley building, the Merchandise Mart and the Sears Tower. All flights at both airports are grounded, and I believe that ABC units are on alert.

Since Cherry mentioned being in a high rise, Cherry might very sensibly be taking a train ride home.

Ellis

14:54 / 11.09.01

If it does turn out to be Bin Laden and the Taliban protect him, I imagine the US will just obliterate Afghanistan.

[ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: Ellis ]

dragonthief

14:56 / 11.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Ellis:
Kooky- William Hague said it in a speech.

The North Yorkshire MP says the decision [to postpone announcement of the outcome of the Tory leadership election] had been taken as a mark of respect for the loss of life in the terrorist attacks.

Mr Hague described the events in America as a "monstrous act of war against the civilised world" and sent out his sympathies to the families of those killed or injured.

14:56 / 11.09.01

A thought:
My girlfriend heard on some news site, early on during all this nuttitude, that it was actually a car bomb that took out part of the pentagon, not a plane.

We understood that there were 4 planes hijacked:
- 1 that hit one of the towers
- 1 that hit the other
- 1 that crashed or was taken down before hitting anything (this may have been planned slack, as contingency, but who on earth cares?)
- and 1 unaccounted for.

Now they're saying it was a plane that hit the pentagon? So, 2 at the Trade Centre, 1 that was taken down/crashed, 1 unaccounted for and... 1 at the Pentagon?

2 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 5?

Am I missing something or is something seriously amiss here?

And what of the vanishing car-bomb?

Frankly, being in Canada, I'm watching this thread more closely than I am my television, since we're getting North American media as opposed to the BBC which, while opinionated and strange, um, may be more informed, or something. Damned if I know what I'm talking about.

Suffice to say after we started getting inconsistencies from the TV, the first thing I said (having not visited the Barbelith board in over three months) was "shit, let's check Barbelith!"

Sue me.

14:56 / 11.09.01

Rumours of DEFCON 2 being declared. Anyone know if this is true?

14:57 / 11.09.01

Why they didnt take the White House and the FBI headquarters??? That would seem to be the next step... Do you guys have the feeling that it is no over yet??

dragonthief

14:59 / 11.09.01

US aviation authorities say there are 50 civilian aircraft still in the air.

The Federal Aviation Authority reports none have a problem and all are within 50 miles of their destination.

14:59 / 11.09.01

I think, with a slight sense of disappointment, that it IS over. I don't think anything is going to go boom at this point. Either the plane that crashed was destined for a third (failed) mission or what was intended has happened and it's finished now. We can look forward to Bush doing something stupid in response (which he HAS to... he can't very well do nothing, now, can he?)... but I think that's it.

Ronald Thomas Clontle

15:00 / 11.09.01

what is DEFCON 2?

I don't think this is over yet.

I would think that the White House isn't as much of a target as the US Treasury and the FBI are...

15:00 / 11.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Jade Emperor:
Why they didnt take the White House and the FBI headquarters??? That would seem to be the next step... Do you guys have the feeling that it is no over yet??

I hope to god that it is. x

15:00 / 11.09.01

quote:"This is an act of war and needs to be responded to as such."

"This is not necessarly a terrorist act, there are countries capable of doing this."

"I wouldn't be surprized if the Taliban was responsible for this."

John McCain, the US Senator from Arizona.

dragonthief

15:01 / 11.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Mister Snee:
A thought:
My girlfriend heard on some news site, early on during all this nuttitude, that it was actually a car bomb that took out part of the pentagon, not a plane.

The car bomb was the State Department.

15:01 / 11.09.01

Keep the other plane in reserve, keep everyone on their toes.

Makes sense. A twisted kind of sense, obviously.

dragonthief

15:02 / 11.09.01

Timetable: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_395887.html

15:03 / 11.09.01

The horrifying part to me is that there is absolutely NOTHING rescue personnel could do within the affected area right now. who knows what is on fire? Gas mains? They are worried about explosions, people in that area are being asphyxiated. I am so glad I decided to leave work when I did.

15:03 / 11.09.01

So there WAS a car bomb. Alright. That still leaves us with the Phantom Plane phenomenon, though.

Anyone? Anyone?
Bueller?

15:03 / 11.09.01

National Guard on its way to NYC to relieve/replace NYPD & Fire Dept.

15:04 / 11.09.01

I had heard 7 plaens hijacked, which means there would probably be 3 missing. But this was 2 hours ago. I also heard that the Pentagon had been hit by more than a plane. I suppose definitive reports are still a long way.

- Mercury

15:06 / 11.09.01

CNN says that the Feds are at Condition Delta, meaning a terrorist attack is in progress. The DEFCON scale refers to actual warfare; I doubt we’re beyond 4 (heightened awareness).

15:06 / 11.09.01

Christ, seems like they add a plane for EVERY alien laser beam that hits a landmark. Cheap.

15:07 / 11.09.01

washigton post web cam

let it be over

dragonthief

15:07 / 11.09.01

quote:Originally posted by todd:
The horrifying part to me is that there is absolutely NOTHING rescue personnel could do within the affected area right now

The really horrifying thing is that many of the casualties *are* the rescue services. Hundreds had entered the buildings.... they never came out.

Giuliani: "When the building collapsed, we had a lot of police officers and firefighters in the building, and I know many of them, because I saw many of them go in, I'm praying for them. The losses to our police and fire department are going to be severe."

15:08 / 11.09.01

todd, i'm glad too.

i've emailed true art, but i haven't heard back from him yet.

any of you guys gonna go and give blood? they need it.

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