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Is Barbelith dying?

  
  

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Sauron
14:47 / 01.02.02
I stand by what I said re: intimidation. It is far less contentious and easier to argue that The Strokes are awesome than it is to argue that Freud is shit. Music is an instant feeling. Intellectual thought needs groundwork before opinions can be formed.

My point re: cross matrix bullying was general and not aimed at the site in any way. I was mooting a general thought (if you can do that). Apologies, I should have left it out of here.

[ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: Sauron ]
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
14:47 / 01.02.02
Fair enough, I merely want some response other than "Board closing baaaaad".\

So really there is no obvious solution to anyones issues with the general state of the boards, a point I was looking to prove.
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
14:49 / 01.02.02
Panu ge, o Socrates.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
14:56 / 01.02.02
i was only being partly serious

i can make a quick and likely unpopular association

Van Halen with david lee roth--generally accepted by fans of the genre as most excellent

Van Halen - dlr-----generally accepted as still good, but never quite the same

I did most of my socializing on the nexus and the bu for over a year, was upset when i had to go to class and miss the next posts, impatient when i realized it may take londoners hours to be awake and home to read my posts
and when someone told me they liked the way i think it was the greatest things that happened.
I used to come here because i felt i had friends here, and some folks i still see around, but most of them are gone, and way to many people are less interested in meeting folks and exchanging ideas than they are in proving that they can "mindfuck" better than the rest.

The firs wave of this i blamed on grant morrison for his damned writeup at the end of the invisibles. Not only did it have the "slashdot" effet of swamping th bandwidth for a while, it attracted invisibles fans who dwell in the "I learned all about religeon from neon genesis evangelion" crowds, which pushed me away

Also--close the 9-11 forum

Dont shut down the boards, reformat them
i have ideas but who am i to tread in toms shoes?
 
 
Ierne
15:17 / 01.02.02
By definition, the Headshop and Switchboard are going to be more intimidating. Intellectual superiority and knowledge superiority invariably lead to bullying...

I respectfully disagree. "Intellectual superiority and knowledge" can also lead to sharing of information, resources and perspectives. (Furthermore, I feel that it does in the case of the Head Shop and Switchboard.) Dealing with people who have had a great deal more education and training can indeed be intimidating–if you let it. I prefer to feel challenged instead of intimidated.
 
 
bitchiekittie
15:31 / 01.02.02
Ive learned a few things here, but the tone has gotten a bit unpleasant lately
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
15:44 / 01.02.02
quote:Originally posted by bitchiekittie:
but the tone has gotten a bit unpleasant lately

I think that this suggests a bit of tunnelvision on your part: While it is true that some people have been less than friendly to you and a small handful of others, for the most part, the board as a whole has still been overwhelmingly friendly and civil, save for a few threads in the Conversation.
 
 
Ierne
15:49 / 01.02.02
I agree with Flux =Thick Skin – it's a good idea not to take things too personally here.
 
 
bitchiekittie
15:50 / 01.02.02
er, then why is most of conversation about how much the board sucks? this is what I was referring to

I guess there is some tunnel vision going on
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
16:04 / 01.02.02
I don't think that's fair. It's not about how the board sucks, it's about the fact that it isn't necessarily doing what we want it to be doing.

The natural solution being, start doing what you want it to do, and see what happens.

So if learning is what's important to you in this setting, ask some questions or propose some ideas. As you know, you may get a rough ride, but it's supremely unlikely that no one will take your part.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
16:13 / 01.02.02
OK, my two euros...

THE CONVERSATION:
It's fluff. I wouldn't be moderating it if it wasn't. But it's Barbelith fluff, and anyone who's even visited another message board knows that our fluff is more arcane, witty and diverse than almost any other message board you could care to name. Part of the recent 'eerrrruuuuggghhhhh' factor has come from 'are you now or have you ever been threads', which become notorious because people post to them to say that they think the thread is a waste of time or Wrong in some way... IMCompletelyFascisticO, I think you could discuss this so much better, and with less rot and argument, by starting a new thread rather than destroying the original. You leave the original thread open to starve to death, while creating an interesting opportunity for discussion in the new thread. Too many people feel compelled to continue arguing in a thread which wasn't designed for it, creating factionism and personal resentment where none should exist. I'm also all for the THINK BEFORE YOU POST meme.

THE HEADSHOP:
If people would only stop making oblique references to their favourite theory (stop paraphrasing, you silly bastards. Quote from the text to support your point. Don't mention a writer as if that makes your point 'QED' all on its own), it would be a lot more newbie friendly. Equally, some posters use 'theory jargon' when it is, frankly, unnecessary, when you can elucidate very quickly without making less erudite people feel stoooopid. This is not a dig at anyone in particular - I just feel that, as someone who's read and understood a good deal of the theory being mentioned a few years back, I'm actually bored by debate sponsored by such writers with no real input as to the poster's own ideas. Can't we all use the brains we were given? Why continually quote from product produced by other brains? The only thing which makes them more relevant than our own ideas is a book deal, and time...

The 9/11 FORUM? Dead. Push The Switchboard back up to the top, virtually speaking.

THE SPECTACLE? I'm all for the Rothkoid POV - more intelligent debate, less Durstesque 'this is what I like and FUCK YOU if you disagree'. Since when did Barbelith's COMICS section become a translation of every other comics 'board? Stop jerking the knee, you bastards - wait, consider, and post something wonderful.

THE GATHERING: For IRL meets only, agreed? Any discussion appartus germinating from the above can take the form of its own thread. For fucks sake. We're all adults here.

Finally: this subject seems to come up every couple of months. THINK. We create this board. We decide wgat is discussed, and hoe. If you're bored of the board, start thinking of ways you can improve it. Don't rely on others to effect your own, personal revolution. You're just begging for them to piss in your mouth...
 
 
Sax
16:42 / 01.02.02
As a group of people that seems to stay together by analysing shit to death, I think it's only natural that the gaze should roll navel-wards occaisionally.

In my initial post, I wasn't criticising, or demanding action, or calling for people to FUCK SHIT UP, rather trying to get some sensible debate about the nature of the board that from the offset was trying NOT to descend into playground name-calling, and I'm gratified to see that the talk here HAS been honest and sensible.

For my money, a month's shutdown would be a generally bad thing, as would a purge of threads. Threads do naturally die, especially in the Conversation, and as with Flyboy, I'd have to do some work during the day if the BU wasn't online.
 
 
Ganesh
17:06 / 01.02.02
Some threads' mothers are more intimidating than other threads' mothers...
 
 
Hush
17:59 / 01.02.02
If Barbelith dies where can we have the Funeral?
 
 
Sax
08:56 / 02.02.02
Thread's dead, baby. Thread's dead.
 
 
Sharkgrin
08:56 / 02.02.02
Or maybe not, Saxie-pooh.
Everyone is pointing out the discussion boards that don't work, but what about the one's that do work or specifcally have a life of their own and bring Barbe-heads together in active ways:
Magic?
The Gathering?
Creation?
Being a creature of solid matter, using a ridiculous 10% of the brain, which is only 7-8% of my body mass, I do beleive ACTIONS MUST CARRY MORE WEIGHT THEN WORDS.
Now before the rot police come by, I'll explain. The Prophet Grant wrote about post-modernism and post-structuralism, and I am greatful for that chance to look at my definitions of everything and the system(s) I choose to live in. For me, thinking and debating without action is a cute exercise for debating and interpersonal skills, but not a lot else.
Imagine if the Greenland Posse ACTIVELY lobbied/proposed political legislation/influenced other social groups with the stuff they posted on this board? Imagine if Elmo was only an apprentice discussion-board hackers/pranksters sent by a guild designed/hired to tie up subversive boards? Imagine if Patriot Metalhead had inspired dozens of Barbeheads to flood the mailboxes of the 'Peace not War' websites, effectively muddling their communications?
Barbe-heads can talk-the-talk, but can they walk-the-walk? (Said the Duke to Jesse Custer). Quite a few Barbeheads do. Look at:
1 - The energy and power of the Peace Mango
2 - The cells forming on the MAgic Board
3 - Rally/Demonstartion Lobbying on the Gathering
4 - The creative/bizarre collabrative projects of the Creation
The board is a nice place to debate, theorize, and poke fun at/converse, but out of legal/politically divisive respect for the board owners, certain cells and members move concrete action meeting/project specifics to other media.
My mother once told me that no one ever saved the world by thinking really hard.

[ 02-02-2002: Message edited by: Sharkgrin ]
 
 
Tom Coates
13:41 / 02.02.02
I hope that noone minds - but I'm going to move this thread into Policy, as I think it's more pertinent there. Perhaps I'm wrong.
 
 
Lothar Tuppan
13:52 / 02.02.02
Thanks for pointing out some of the good stuff Sharkgrin.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
19:22 / 02.02.02
I've forgotten the rota. After we have the earnest discussion about whether Barbelith is dying do we go onto the Love-In or the 'Why aren't you all being Revolutionary you Fuckers?' discussion?

I think artificial solutions like wiping the board or locking of records will NOTdo much but admittedly cannot offer a solution that WILL work, my own sneaking suspicion is that they will make people feel it's not worth trying to start anything.

Whoever it was that complained that Barbelith was a talking shop and not a tossing cauldron of revolutionary zeal... Gah!

Maybe we need some posters to go into the Head Shop threads and actually tackle people to define their terms, the 'transgender 101' thread being a good example.

(Edited to put a Not in where it was supposed to go)

[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Loz' Sweet Exile ]
 
 
01
19:49 / 02.02.02
Barbelith is dead.
Long live Barbelith.

This thread was the first one that caught my eye this morning, and I usually don't venture into 'Policy'. In fact I haven't been posting around anywhere lately for many of the reasons already discussed. Where the conversation has become a fourth rate teen soap or Barbelith 90210, and the rest hasn't had anything that's got me going for a while, and I haven't had anything really worth posting for a while.

Now who's fault is this?

One thing I love about this board is how it is very reflective of the outside world. It's function as being a realm to discuss the meat and potatoes of everything is awesome. But now it seems the meat and potatoes are starting to get a little cold. And maybe stale. If the general atmosphere inside Barbelith is fucking dreary and boring, well... take a look outside. But the question remains, "Does this knowing this excuse us?"

I really don't want to post this next sentence on an internet BBS but I've got no choice. The other day, I saw a great episode of Voyager.
The Q's were in a state of upheaveal because one of the their members wanted to become human so he could commit suicide. He wanted to die because the continuum had become soooo boring. There was nothing left to discuss. Nothing left to explore. This kind of reminds me of the state of this board. Now that isn't to say that everything worth saying has been said and that we've all reached intellectual nirvana and that that's the reason that petty squabbles are more frequent and the board is turning into Lord of the Flies. It's just saying that we need to kick ourselves in the ass and make it interesting again. Plain and simple. If you've got nothing worth saying, turn off the computer go out and fucking do something so that next time you have something mildly relevant to bring to the table. People are wasting too much time here.

This idea of "Board Elders" and "Board Seniority reflected in the number of posts" and "I've been here since the early days child...ho ho ho..walking barefoot in 2 feet of snow uphill both ways just to post one message" is laughable. When I first started lurking around the board and read the tone of these posts my first thought was, "Holy fuck, get a life. What are you boasting about?"
Now I don't want this rant to misconstrued as hate for this place. In fact the opposite is true. I love it here. This place is one of the most interested forums that I've ever been a part of. I've been lucky in the fact that in the outside world I've been able to make friends with people who are not content with the status quo and who dig discussing much of the same shit that I do. And lucky in the fact that I've had many heavy conversations that have really challenged me. However, this place when, it's really rocking, is an atom bomb. The diversity of opinion, experience, and fucking passion for "the truth/enlightment/life/whatever you want ot call it" expressed here has been really inspiring. I love having many of the same conversations here as well. Hell, just reading this shit is great. I probably read more than I post. But back to the point at hand: It hasn't been like this lately. The problem is the Fluff to Meat ratio is at an all time high for the fluff side and that's got to do with:
a. outside, the general shitty climate of the times which results in:
b. people retreating here and gen X-ing it up for lack of anything better to do.

I agree with Tom for wanting to relaunch/upgrade this board and inject some new juice into it. If that means shutting'er down for a while, I say go for it. "Time to turn off the Atari kids."

[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: zerone ]
 
 
Ierne
11:56 / 04.02.02
If you've got nothing worth saying, turn off the computer go out and fucking do something so that next time you have something mildly relevant to bring to the table. People are wasting too much time here. – zerone

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, zerone, but I can't help but read your post as somewhat condescending. What makes you think because someone here has garnered more than 1000 posts on this board, they have no life and nothing better to do than post here?

I know that certainly isn't the case with me – The only reason I seem to have more posts than other people here is because (Bless the Lord Shiva!) my fictionsuit hasn't self-destructed. And I post during work, which means I'm doing 5-10 other things while interacting with this board! (Hardly wasting time, let me tell you!) Keeping that in mind, I think that most of what I post is legible, somewhat interesting and related to the subject at hand.

It is very rare that I post outside of work, because I have no internet access outside of work. Let me assure everyone that I do not spend that time curled up in the fetal positon, sucking my thumb and craving Monday Morning and a return to Barbelith! I've got a lot going on in my life, and I'm sure many other frequent posters do as well.

I do understand the point you're trying to make, but I wish your tone had been a bit different. I don't feel as I'm wasting time here at all – in fact, I'm making damn good use of my time, and I'm sure other posters feel similarly.

[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Ierne ]
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
12:11 / 04.02.02
Gotta love a post which manages to include both "You are wasting your lives on Barbelith!" and "there was this fantastic, moving and actually extremely germaine episode of "Star Trek: Voyager" on last night"....
 
 
01
23:05 / 05.02.02
Ierne: Good for you.

Haus: Please post a nice sonnet for us to analyze. Make sure to use correct spelling.
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
06:36 / 06.02.02
As you wish -

Shall I compare me to a Zero-One?
My postings are as dull as being dead,
No Barbeloid shall mourn me when I’m gone,
I leave no mark except upon the bed

I whine that no-one wants to change the world,
While cramming bread and dripping in my maw.
Remote control in boiling anger hurled;
I’ve seen this “Voyager” three times before.

These revolutionary friends of mine,
Shall change the world and overtop all vetos…
Hey! The Rock is fighting Sev’n of Nine,
Let’s watch TV and eat some more Doritos.

We warriors shall change the world for sure,
Just like Jean-Luc Picard in Series Four.
 
 
sleazenation
08:00 / 06.02.02
Now can you follow that up with the Rubaiyat of Victor Kiam, Haus?
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
08:11 / 06.02.02
I was so impressed, I bought the loaf of bread *and* the jug of wine...
 
 
higuita
08:51 / 06.02.02
"But Captain Kirk - what is threadrot?"
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:11 / 06.02.02
For whatever perverse reason, Barbelith has sprung to life. The Creation is more active than it's been for months. The Conversation is quiet(er).

Deal with it.
 
 
Sax
11:33 / 06.02.02
There's nothing like a near-death experience to make you love life.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
11:40 / 06.02.02
Perhaps we should start a Bitching Verse thread in the Creation where anyone with a grudge has to prove their right to bear it by putting their grievance in poetry?

That'll weed out the petty resentments - or at least make them more entertaining.
 
 
01
14:51 / 06.02.02
Haus you know it is a drag
That you act like such a fag
 
 
Ierne
14:55 / 06.02.02
Take your petty greivances with Haus to the Conversation. Or better yet, PM him.

Looks like you're the one wasting time, 01.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
15:03 / 06.02.02
01, have you been taking lessons from the Knowledge +1?

That is the single most immature, hateful, and above all, witless that thing I've ever seen posted on Barbelith. You should be ashamed of yourself, and get a thicker skin while yr at it.

[ 06-02-2002: Message edited by: Flux = Genius of Love ]
 
 
Rage
20:35 / 06.02.02
Barbelllllith is dead
And no one cares
If there is a hell
I'll seeeee you there
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:45 / 06.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Whisky Priestess:
Perhaps we should start a Bitching Verse thread in the Creation where anyone with a grudge has to prove their right to bear it by putting their grievance in poetry?


Innncoming! 15-page shitstorm at 3 o'clock!
 
  

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