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Watchmen movie news

 
  

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Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:32 / 09.03.09
I thought Manhattan looked fantastic as long as he wasn't speaking - unfortunately the lip sync animation was a bit wonky and continually reminded me that he was CG. Crudup's voice was great, though.

Ironically, given Manhattan's whole schtick, I think this particular quirk would make him work better for me.

Still haven't seen it. I've hit that oversaturated-in-hype point where I'm floating in this sea with no particular momentum. I should probably do something about that when I have money.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
05:13 / 10.03.09
I can't speak to their tastes, but I find people have loads of unwarranted (imo) reverence for lots of things.

On this point, a couple years ago I saw a Good Charlotte tribute album.

Haven't seen the film yet, but the vibe I'm getting from this thread makes me so curious I'm going to have to make time.
 
 
wicker woman
05:44 / 10.03.09
Forgot to mention this LOL moment, for Wicker Women's sake.

But I recently watched a Tivoed Leonard Cohen documentary/cover concert where (!) Nick Cave (!) talks about how when he discovered Cohen's records it was the first time he felt "cool" about music (esp. at having discovered something for himself) and that it led was one of the things directly responsible for him becoming a musician.


Ouch. Consider me LOL'ed. I'll just slink off into my corner now...
 
 
miss wonderstarr
07:51 / 10.03.09
Good things about this movie:

- the pleasant surprise about how much detail made it in from the original, and the fun in seeing those things transferred from another medium, just for the sake of novelty (like the enjoyment of seeing a play you've only read, acted out, or even hearing an audiobook of a novel you know well) and because there's a certain kick, combined with a bit of regret, about having things you've loved fairly privately for 22 years suddenly become public (like a small band of yours becoming huge, or on another scale, a song you listen to loads at home, playing on the radio).

And that applies to small things, like the ketchup dropping on Seymour's smiley t-shirt, and big things, like the whole depiction of Rorschach/Kovacs, which did something really surprising for me by offering a deeper, more plausible, more poignant portrait. It added something to see, clearly, in a "realistic" mode, that Rorschach is wearing grimy dress fabric over his face, rather than the clean white and dynamic blacks of Gibbons' design, and that he loves that "face" the way Linus loves his blanket or a kid loves a beaten-up soft toy.

- quite a few of the details added to the film that weren't in the original were adept, fun and intelligent: Ozymandias briefly shaking hands with Bowie, Silhouette getting a girlfriend on VJ day, the pull back over New York as the cops admit the Blake case is bigger than both of them.


Bad things about this movie:

- Hallelujah. The flamethrower from the Owlship in the original at Nite Owl's moment of triumph was already a mock-celebration of a guy getting it up, but I don't think it's good to laugh and cringe through a lengthy sex scene.

- Laurie and Blake. The flashbacks weren't motivated by Jon's "flashback power" previously, so Laurie's revelation was hokily prompted, and didn't carry any weight.

- The fight scenes. As soon as someone throws a punch, "realism" (the aesthetic that motivated the filmmakers to build a city block and research costumes from 5 decades) goes out of the window. Suddenly, fists impact like thunder, fairly normal humans are all expert martial artists and slomo dancers, and people get up from being thrown into walls.

- The whole conspiracy and climax section. But then, thinking about it, the original started to falter here for me too, quite badly. After Rorschach is broken out, the graphic novel always seemed to lose its grip and get a bit... silly. I remember critics at the time saying it declined into James Bond (that's 1980s James Bond, not the gritty recent stuff) Boys' Own heroics.



Overall, I enjoyed about 70% of the experience; it's stayed with me, and I'm going to go back to the comic now. I would be surprised if a fan of the original couldn't agree that, at the very least, it could have been much, much... much worse.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
16:36 / 10.03.09
I have blogged my response here and I meant to post this immediately but I didn't because I'm a big loser.

Duh.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:39 / 10.03.09
Oh yeah, I don't want to turn into one of this new breed of "Kovacs Is Love" fans (I have read some very intense, infatuated posts along those lines on another discussion board) and bang on about "Ror' wouldn't say that" ~ like he wouldn't, based on what we see of his approach to language, say "Tricky Dick" ~ but nobody on any alternate earth would naturally have delivered that dialogue about Ozymandias having "nocturnal proclivities".
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
01:05 / 11.03.09
The whole conspiracy and climax section. But then, thinking about it, the original started to falter here for me too, quite badly.

I agree... for all that people have been going on about "changing the ending", the end was always the weak link in the comics. Let's face it, Watchmen did an AWESOME job when it came to portents and build-up, and then... even reading it as a kid I thought the squid was a bit shit. Not seen the movie yet, so I have no idea whether it's better or worse, but I wasn't that attached to Moore's ACTUAL ending, so...

...hey, if wonderstarr's back posting (yay!), then at least the movie's achieved SOMETHING, right? (Though I still haven't forgiven you for my Jack Reacher addiction, motherfucker).
 
 
■
08:26 / 11.03.09
but nobody on any alternate earth would naturally have delivered that dialogue about Ozymandias having "nocturnal proclivities".

True, which is why they sneaked in a folder labelled "Boys" on to Adrian's computer, I guess.

Overall, wonderstarr is right on the money, as usual. I came away having really enjoyed the experience of watching then picking apart something I know so well, but the things that jarred (the ultra-violence, Dan actually fighting Adrian rather than being a schlubby cipher for our own baffled resignation and impotence, Laurie's cheesy extra lines and terrible acting...) made me realise that I don't think it in any way actually did anything that you couldn't get from the book.

It's the least bad film they could possibly have made.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:36 / 11.03.09
True, which is why they sneaked in a folder labelled "Boys" on to Adrian's computer, I guess.

Yeah, I forgot that, and I'm not sure how I feel about it. It was a quick laugh, but a cheap laugh perhaps.

It's funny partly because the smartest man on the planet keeps his porn so badly hidden, with a password taken from a book sitting right on his desk, and the folder explicitly labelled (ie. not "Adrian's Work File XX").

And it's funny because... it's 1985, and that's how naive we were about computers then. Even the smartest man on the planet was using some clunky-ass software and not bothering to protect his files.

And it, and Ozymandias, are maybe smarter than they seem, because after all, Adrian set up every other "clue" for Rorschach, playing him like a chess pawn ~ maybe he knows Rorschach would see a floppy-blond, slightly lispy, highly-groomed man and think "possible homosexual", and enjoyed sticking an obvious "boys" file on his PC just to wind up the squashy-faced bigot. He wants and expects Rorschach and Nite Owl to come to Karnak, doesn't he? Or at least, he isn't at all surprised.
 
 
CameronStewart
14:36 / 11.03.09
Is this "Boys" thing actually true? I didn't notice it and I've been reading about it in several places, but it really has the whiff of one person possibly misreading something that went by in a flash, then complaining about it on the net and it spreading around with no actual basis (impossible, I know).
 
 
■
14:41 / 11.03.09
Yep, it's there. I saw it and so did my colleague who is frightfully good at noticing things like that - such as the dildo on the Comedian's TV, apparently, which I missed.
 
 
deja_vroom
15:49 / 11.03.09
Is this "Boys" thing actually true?

It is, I spotted it the second time around. Subtle, this thing ain't.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
18:42 / 11.03.09
Ahhh, turning the villain into a homosexual for laughs and making sure we all know that Silhouette and her partner were LESBIAN WHORES and a tastefully fetishized death scene. Zack Snyder and your gentle and tasteful grasp of human sexuality, we salute you.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:52 / 11.03.09
This is increasingly sounding like a really classy movie. I particularly like the way that almost every review post in this thread ends with the words "it's not as bad as it could have been".
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
19:05 / 11.03.09
Yeah, it's definitely lacking in class and maturity. However, I still hesitate to say it's terrible. It's disappointing because they got so much right and so much wrong. And those things collide in unfortunate ways.

Still, though, the "Watchmaker" chapter... worth every stinkin' penny.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
23:47 / 11.03.09
Um, but Rorschach, the guiding voice and perspective for most of the book, and certainly the early chapters, offers his own, quite possibly misguided and simpleminded, reading as Veidt as gay, and the story about Silhouette being murdered because of her sexuality is fairly clearly flagged up by both Rorschach and "Under the Hood" ~ again, these are the voices treated as authoritative for the first few chapters of the book, and the points of view that we're invited to trust for information about the identity and history of the characters (they are virtually all we've got).

So, the idea of Silhouette and Ozymandias potentially being gay is certainly not introduced by the film. Silhouette's sexuality is actually (arguably) celebrated more in the movie than in the comic book ~ she has a steady girlfriend who, as I remember, appears at official functions and in Minutemen photoshoots. Her murder within the film is apparently homophobic, but it also seems to happen during the 1950s. As I suggested, Ozymandias leaving an obvious folder of "Boys" alongside his confidential documents could, without too much of a stretch, be seen as another taunting "clue" for Rorschach in particular, whom Ozymandias has adeptly played for most of the story.

I don't think the film is really introducing anything unclassily homophobic that was not already signposted in the book.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
00:00 / 12.03.09
I'd further venture that some of the weakest points of the film simply demonstrate the weak points of the original ~ Laurie was always the flattest and most tag-along character, and Adrian was always bland and comparatively dull, in my opinion ~ and the strongest parts of the book remain powerful in the film.

I must admit that over time, the film is growing on me. I wish I could cut and change a few scenes so there weren't any parts to cringe over, but there were many moments when I couldn't believe I was seeing a small but great and faithfully-rendered image, or hearing a whole speech of favourite dialogue, in a massive, mainstream feature film.

It has renewed my emotional investment in and fascination for the comic book, and reminded me both of its significant weaknesses, and its still-unbeatable power. Some scenes in the film are messed up, but some, surprisingly, add to the original and give it a new dimension. I really don't think a fan of Watchmen has a great deal to complain about here, and I would be interested to know why someone with a deep connection to the comic book might feel disappointed or betrayed. I don't know what someone coming to it cold will make of it, but it's pretty striking that the film seems to be made more for those who love the original than a general audience ~ and that seems unprecedented with comic book adaptations.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
00:22 / 12.03.09
Rorschach's a homophobe. In the book. And he's also got the whole anti-Veidt thing going on because of Veidt's wealth and power. It's the sum of those things that makes his mind up that Veidt is "possibly homosexual", or however it's put in the original dialogue - he's belittling the man in his own mind in order to keep his own superiority complex bubbling along.

He's a broken, fucked-up misanthrope who's disgusted by everybody he's ever known, including himself. There's a big difference between that character coming to that conclusion and what people are reporting flashes by the camera in the film.

Plus, "boys". Ick, y'know? That sounds like Snyder going for a particularly unsavoury angle on Veidt's sexual proclivities, again for yucks. Whatever, I can't see that there's a single good reason for it. Lots of potentially bad reasons, but not one good one.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
00:23 / 12.03.09
Yeah, I know I've not seen it yet.
 
 
The Natural Way
02:42 / 12.03.09
honestly, i was this films worst enemy and the sentiment that you find so YUCK! - that 'it was better than it could've been' - really is a plus point.

but i can't articulate why yet.

it really was pretty enjoyable.

i take it all back.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:08 / 12.03.09
Rorschach's a homophobe. In the book. And he's also got the whole anti-Veidt thing going on because of Veidt's wealth and power. It's the sum of those things that makes his mind up that Veidt is "possibly homosexual", or however it's put in the original dialogue - he's belittling the man in his own mind in order to keep his own superiority complex bubbling along.

He's a broken, fucked-up misanthrope who's disgusted by everybody he's ever known, including himself. There's a big difference between that character coming to that conclusion and what people are reporting flashes by the camera in the film.


I agree, but you must have seen me suggest twice that Veidt ~ the smartest man on Earth! ~ was planting clues for Rorschach for much of the story. He wanted Rorschach to investigate Roy Chess (Roy Schach, in German) and discover the link to Pyramid Deliveries. He relied on Rorschach finding that out, to set up the trap with Moloch, to put Rorschach in jail. So, he knows Rorschach's patterns and methods to the extent that he can lay quite a complex trail, and predict accurately where it will lead Rorschach.

This is the guy who painstakingly set up Dr Manhattan's exile and faked his own assassination attempt. His final masterplan, in the book and film, involved (I think we can assume?) months or years of sleight-of-hand and concealment of his actual motives.

He knows Rorschach's mind. He knows full well Rorschach is a bigot. I think he expects Nite Owl and Rorschach to come to Karnak. He expects them to discover he is behind the plan. Maybe the smartest man on Earth in 1985 would leave his password on the desk, and his porn next to his business files, but maybe it amused him to do both.

As for "Boys" ~ I don't know, wouldn't Nite Owl have a document of favorite pictures from magazines hidden with the bird books, labelled "Girls"? I know what you're saying that it does, or could, suggest a stupid link between gayness and paedophilia, but... in that context, isn't "Boys" and "Girls" more likely than a porn file called "Men" or "Women"?

I know it seems I'm trying to get the no-prize for defending this movie. But in terms of its homophobic elements, bear in mind again that the original book had a lesbian cabbie blurt out (from memory) "an... an I wish I was STRAIGHT". Hooded Justice is also, in the original, suggested to be a repressed gay man whose sexual pleasure involves beating up on men.

I think the book itself either reflects a naivety in Moore's attitudes towards ethnicity and sexuality at the time, or reflects what he felt were the attitudes of 1985 (or what he felt would be the case in alt-1985) ~ some of which don't fly with us now.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:12 / 12.03.09
He's a broken, fucked-up misanthrope who's disgusted by everybody he's ever known, including himself. There's a big difference between that character coming to that conclusion and what people are reporting flashes by the camera in the film.

In the first chapter of Watchmen, we have no such knowledge of Rorschach's background or emotional state, unless we immediately judge them from his monologue.

I suggest that, as his diary dominates that chapter from the start, we're actually encouraged to treat him as a fairly reliable narrator ~ and his apparent contempt for most of the world as within the hard-boiled Chandler tradition.

So, I don't really think that when he tells us Veidt is possibly homosexual (and Dan is a flabby failure, and Silk Spectre I is a "bloated whore" or something along those lines) we are meant to think immediately, well I'll take that with a pinch of salt because this guy is fucked up.

That was the whole problem Moore had with Rorschach. People think he's cool. Moore meant him to be repulsive, but he somehow made Rorschach too appealing.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:20 / 12.03.09
I have to add that I read chapter one of the comic last night ~ and man is there a lot of clunky exposition.

"Hey, you know, that KEENE ACT that outlawed us all really did us, uh, a lot of favors. Only Comedian and RORSCHACH are still active, and, uh, COMEDIAN is dead, and RORSCHACH's... "

[Shot of a cop miles away opening a packet of peanuts]

"well, RORSCHACH's nuts."
 
 
Spaniel
08:37 / 12.03.09
"an... an I wish I was STRAIGHT"

This isn't the place, but I've never considered that particular piece of dialogue to be any other than decent character work. It might be politically troublesome, but that's another question
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:42 / 12.03.09
It's all food for decent discussion, which is what I hope we are having here, because I certainly appreciate the posts that don't entirely agree with me ~ but my point was that the original comic probably has at least as many "troublesome" aspects in its representation of sexuality.
 
 
■
08:47 / 12.03.09
I reckon the suggestion of paedophilia might be another of Snyder's ways of saying "these people are all reprehensible DO YOU SEE" in the same way as having a kill-crazy Laurie and Jon making people go sploosh gratuitously.
 
 
Spaniel
09:58 / 12.03.09
Still can't really join in, but I don't think having Jon make people go sploosh is gratuitous, in fact I think it's probably quite a good idea in that it may well be intended to reveal something about how he sees people (sacks of chemicals). Further it might also be intended (possibly) to draw attention to the frailty and limitations of human flesh, which in turn points towards his virtual godhood.
 
 
penitentvandal
10:46 / 12.03.09
Saw this the other day. Liked it more than I should have, but agree with some of the many criticisms here. Particularly the fight scenes. The opening death of the Comedian lost a lot of its impact because, instead of it being a sneak attack in which Blake never has a chance, they turned it into a martial arts action sequence. The setting of which, incidentally, was far too reminiscent of 1970s 'apartment wrestling' porn for this viewer's liking. One of the most important parts of the plot, the event that kicks off the whole thing, thus descended into bathos. And 'The Sound of Silence' at the funeral didn't do anything to remedy that.

The fighting was just a huge problem all told, actually. The handicap-tag battle between Ozzy and Rorschach/Nite Owl went on far too long, and overdid the 'look how strong he is! Look how powerless they are! See how the 'heroes' of the film are getting their arses thoroughly handed to them!' far too much. Doesn't the comic version of this scene have Veidt telling the pair that there really is no point in their continuing to fight? And, again, I thought Ozzy's fighting style - throwing people across rooms- and, indeed, the fact that people could get up so easily from being thrown across rooms, weakened the point that only Dr Manhattan is a true superbeing in this universe.

It was like watching a David Mamet film in which, for no apparent reason, every time people argued it turned into an overblown lucha libre showdown. Which, now that I think about it, sounds quite interesting, but didn't work here.

Another thing no-one seems to have remarked on yet is that Hooded Justice was apparently voiced by Stewie Griffin...
 
 
Speedy
15:47 / 12.03.09
My take on this is pretty unformed at this stage, but generally it's firming up in a couple of areas:

- (per miss wonderstar and others above) that some of the film's weaknesses reflect weaknesses in the book
- (per one of the bloggers, probably Jog) that the film necessarily picks and chooses the bits of the book it wants to use, and more than just some of the time seemingly wilfully executes them poorly. (But very occasionally does things better.)

OK, pretty broad I know!

I’ve seen the movie only once, during which my mind was mostly occupied with mapping what was on screen to the book. At this point I have little idea how it comes across as a standalone film.

Anyway, some dot points:

***

On the gay material, we also had in the comic that one panel which showed a restaurant scene with two men in the foreground affectionately holding hands. Speculation was that this indicated that this alt world was a bit more "out" than the real 1985. This and the (pretty ropey) lesbian characters arc at least attempted to fill out the range of depiction of gay experience in the normal (ie, not superhero) world. Not much I know; but when they’re excised from the movie, poor Silhouette is left to “cover” the material - VE Day kiss, to kinky crimefighter, to dead in girlfriend’s arms. I did notice Adrian’s “Boys” folder, which got from me the groan it deserved. (But I agree with miss wonderstar that it was possibly a joke planted for Rorschach’s benefit.) I’m not sure what a straight (ie, not Watchmen-comic-reading) audience would take away from this. More of the usual I suppose.

***

I’m not buying some of the claims that Snyder was attempting genre comment in his extended slow-mo fight scenes. They’re there to grab a bit more demographic, and probably he just likes them. Fine, but they really undercut or contradict some of the themes of the comic - eg, real kicking and punching hurts, an actual superman would actually be something quite extraordinary, etc. And they unnecessarily add to that bladder-bursting running time.

***

I do think that the new ending made more sense as a plausible scheme on Veidt's part. BUT - the bloodless special effect we saw was very ho-hum, with absolutely no emotional resonance or sense of the magnitude of the act. And I'm disappointed that the "elaborate, ridiculous practical joke" aspect gets buried somewhat. I’m not entirely sure Moore himself paid off all the joke-smiley badge-Comedian references very satisfyingly. But Snyder really goes out of his way to foreground this stuff, before even more comprehensively flubbing the big punchline.

***

Another small example of this tendency: the prison bars scene with the unfortunate Lawrence. This wasn't actually very well told in the comic - the “blocking” (two senses!) wasn’t very clear. The movie makes a big deal of amping up the gore here, but still doesn't quite "fix" that bit of business. (Of course the main point of the bit is to milk some Rorschach badassery and killer punning!)

***

I'll leave it there ... really late, really tired!
 
 
grant
15:49 / 12.03.09
I think the book itself either reflects a naivety in Moore's attitudes towards ethnicity and sexuality at the time, or reflects what he felt were the attitudes of 1985 (or what he felt would be the case in alt-1985) ~ some of which don't fly with us now.

But isn't that part of the whole "THIS IS ART" project of Watchmen as deconstruction-of-comics?

It might seem more troublesome in a movie because movies were never accused of "seducing the innocent" - but it'd be impossible to do a thorough retcon of comicdom without spooning on a thick layer of "superheroes are queer."
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:09 / 12.03.09
True, though you'd think if Moore was really commenting on Seduction of the Innocent, he would have had a male superhero duo outed and blacklisted in the mid-1950s, rather than (as is apparently the case in Watchmen) a woman whose lesbianism is hinted at, killed by a rival some time shortly after WW2, a German wrestler who might be secretly gay and who's accused of enjoying beating up men, a man called "Nelly" and a "possibly homosexual" athlete and adventurer in the 1980s.

Though I agree that the erotic aspect of the masks and costumes (made pretty explicit in Dan's dream and his sex scenes with Laurie; maybe also in the Silk Spectre/Hooded Justice/Comedian assault) is a comment on and response to the Wertham type of analysis of comic books.

On the other hand, I think Schumacher's Batman movies foregrounded the sexuality of armoured, sculpted costumes and played around with the homoeroticism of the superhero duo, so there is that precedent in cinema superheroism, and I do think it's possible that the use of precisely that sort of stupid costume in the film was an attempt to engage with those representations of cinema-superhero sexuality.
 
 
deja_vroom
16:55 / 12.03.09
Rorschach's post-Rumrunner leap fight was a true eyesore to me. The way it was done, it looked like everybody forgot what they were doing and started a frenetic breakdancing competition on the sidewalk.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:24 / 12.03.09
wonderstarr: I agree, but you must have seen me suggest twice that Veidt ~ the smartest man on Earth! ~ was planting clues for Rorschach for much of the story. He wanted Rorschach to investigate Roy Chess (Roy Schach, in German) and discover the link to Pyramid Deliveries. He relied on Rorschach finding that out, to set up the trap with Moloch, to put Rorschach in jail. So, he knows Rorschach's patterns and methods to the extent that he can lay quite a complex trail, and predict accurately where it will lead Rorschach.

Yeah, I did read those posts, but I wasn't sure how seriously you were trying to make that point. I think it's a pretty massive stretch, a bit of a desperate attempt to excuse a very bad decision on the part of the director. Or scriptwriter, or whoever was responsible for it.

In the first chapter of Watchmen, we have no such knowledge of Rorschach's background or emotional state, unless we immediately judge them from his monologue.

I suggest that, as his diary dominates that chapter from the start, we're actually encouraged to treat him as a fairly reliable narrator ~ and his apparent contempt for most of the world as within the hard-boiled Chandler tradition.


I don't think I ever read it that way to begin with. It's been a long, long time since I first picked the comic up, obvs, but as far as I can remember I took it as read that Rorschach was a loony right from the off. This goes back to the discussion you and I were having in this thread a few months(?) back about the choice of font and how its scratchiness always suggested, to me, an unhinged lunatic. It's also fairly clear that Rorschach's internal monologue about Veidt comes from a bad place because it's so random, so laughable.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:27 / 12.03.09
That was the whole problem Moore had with Rorschach. People think he's cool. Moore meant him to be repulsive, but he somehow made Rorschach too appealing.

See also Travis Bickle. It's funny how similar the two are, how similar their respective introductions are.

It's not that they're too appealing, just that a lot of the audience don't read into the work deeply enough.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
18:00 / 12.03.09
Yeah, I did read those posts, but I wasn't sure how seriously you were trying to make that point. I think it's a pretty massive stretch, a bit of a desperate attempt to excuse a very bad decision on the part of the director. Or scriptwriter, or whoever was responsible for it.

OK, maybe, but I think that depends on how much intelligence we are prepared to credit the director and scriptwriter with. I accept that my suggestion is a way of finding an excuse and rationale ~ I'm not sure how plausible it is.




I don't think I ever read it that way to begin with. It's been a long, long time since I first picked the comic up, obvs, but as far as I can remember I took it as read that Rorschach was a loony right from the off. This goes back to the discussion you and I were having in this thread a few months(?) back about the choice of font and how its scratchiness always suggested, to me, an unhinged lunatic. It's also fairly clear that Rorschach's internal monologue about Veidt comes from a bad place because it's so random, so laughable.
See also Travis Bickle. It's funny how similar the two are, how similar their respective introductions are.

It's not that they're too appealing, just that a lot of the audience don't read into the work deeply enough.


I've thought about this more, over the last couple of days, because I do wonder how and why Rorschach was and remains quite sympathetic to me, as a character ~ and why he has that appeal to a lot of readers and now viewers (and I believe he really does).

I think part of it does depend on when you read the comic.

I was 16 and to someone that age, a comic book that deals with what seem "serious" issues (politics, death, sex, time), quotes literary sources and knows about what seems serious, grown-up music and lyrics (I actually started listening to Dylan and Costello because of this book) and gives you a sort of beginner's guide to aspects of philosophy is really thrilling and flattering ~ these two cool older guys, Moore and Gibbons, are treating you like an adult.

If I picked up the book now, I don't even know if I'd finish it. It looks crude and clumsy ~ the art and colour are often a bit horrible ~ and having read one chapter again last night, I suspect the writing, characterisation and ideas are also a lot less sophisticated than they came across in 1986.

However, I now feel an affection for and investment in the book because of its importance to me as a teenager, and the influence it had on me. So I'm more forgiving of it than I would be if I came to it cold now, and my attitude towards it is bound up in how I felt about it when I first encountered it.

As for Rorschach, I suggest that readers encountering him when the book was first published would have engaged with the character through a framework of expectations including the noir hero (Bogart, Chandler's novels and so on), quite possibly Travis Bickle, but maybe most importantly (as it was a DC superhero comic by the author of Swamp Thing), BATMAN.

A masked vigilante who climbs buildings and investigates a murder, finding clues the police missed, and narrates with a hard-ass, articulate but cynical attitude, fits pretty well within the 1986 reader's understanding of Batman.

I don't know how true that would be now, for a comic reader or cinemagoer encountering the book for the first time ~ or how true it would have been over the last 20 years ~ but I reckon that for much of that period, for a lot of readers, Rorschach's early appearance signifies "here is a tough, cool-looking vigilante who pursues a rough justice, like Batman." The evolution of The Question into a kind of Batman companion and surrogate in the JLA cartoons (and no doubt in other formats) just supports that interpretation.

And that is where I think Moore was being quite clever with his intentions for Rorschach, because as I understand it, he wanted to show how a driven urban vigilante (mask, martial arts, gadgets, mission to find a killer that the police have given up on) would actually be a repulsive, antisocial, friendless, smelly, twisted human being that you really wouldn't want to know.

So I believe Rorschach was meant to set up expectations by using an archetype of the hard-ass, cool-as-ice vigilante, and then undermine it by saying, here's what that guy would actually be like; kind of pathetic and messed up.

Unfortunately for Moore's intentions, I don't personally feel that side of Rorschach outweighed the other side (hard, driven, cool-looking, uncompromising). Even in the late stages of the book, Rorschach still gets the staccato, hard as nails dialogue, he still gets to face down his enemies even when he's outnumbered, he still has a great visual look about him, he still sticks to his principles and comes across (to many readers, I think) as stubbornly heroic.

Part of the problem is that Gibbons' depiction of Rorschach (and here is where I think the film does it more successfully) never really gets across the grubbiness and stink of the character. Yeah, people say he smells and has a creepy voice, but his mask is always a pristine black and white.

Another issue is that when he shows Rorschach as the short, ginger-haired Kovacs and delves into his origins ~ a sequence presumably meant to undermine the coolness of the street-vigilante archtype, by revealing Kovacs' platform shoes, runtish stature, pathetic half-used bottle of cologne and strikingly ugly face (I believe the book puts it this way) ~ I think we actually come to sympathise with him more.

A lot of people who read superhero comics have experienced bullying. Kovacs is a kid who was bullied and fought back, in the way a lot of comic-readers might have fantasised about. He's the social reject who made himself into a figure of some stature, someone with a reputation.

And his weak, pathetic aspects, I think, just give him a vulnerability that makes him (again, this might just be me) seem hurt, broken and more forgiveable. If he'd remained the hard, masked vigilante for 12 episodes, I think his bigoted ranting would be harder to take than it is once we've seen him crying and snotty, being beaten up by cops as he yells desperately for his "face", because it's the only face he can bear looking at. I think seeing him as an abused, lonely kid encourages us to understand and accept his messed-up adult attitudes and relationships, more than we would if he'd remained masked, enigmatic and costumed.

Maybe I'm soft ~ and being soft on a character with that kind of belief system is, I know, a problem ~ but when Rorschach holds out his hand to Dan, saying "I know it is difficult sometimes", I find that one of the most moving parts of the book.
 
  

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