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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Watchmen movie news

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21:28 / 07.03.09

I see what he's trying to do, with the whole comic about comics/movie about movies and their soundtracks, but, no.

But is he really doing the movies about movies thing? What makes you think that he is? And if he is, is it worth doing? Okay, Ride of the Valkyries I can just about buy (just about - I'm not entirely sold), but is it really of any interest? What does it bring to the film other than a certain knowingness?

Sorry to keep harping on about this. After speaking with Amy and reading Cameron's review I'm pretty sure I'm going to enjoy the film despite its flaws, but some of what I'm reading around here just strikes me as simply defensive.

21:34 / 07.03.09

But is he really doing the movies about movies thing? What makes you think that he is?

The director mentioned it in at least one interview, back when they were just starting. Comic Book Resources, maybe. Specifically, he talks about the Wagner/Vietnam thing, possibly other direct examples, but that's the one that's stuck in my head.

I doubt it's terribly enlightening or revelatory, though.

23:12 / 07.03.09

In my opinion, that cover of Hallelujah that plays over the sex scene is as awkward as the scene itself. Valkyries was just silly, and Sound of Silence is way way way overused for scenes of that type, but the Hallelujah cover was the only one that really made my ears burn. Nick Cave is the only one who should try to sound like Nick Cave.

Keith, like a scientist

23:21 / 07.03.09

In my opinion, that cover of Hallelujah that plays over the sex scene is as awkward as the scene itself. Valkyries was just silly, and Sound of Silence is way way way overused for scenes of that type, but the Hallelujah cover was the only one that really made my ears burn. Nick Cave is the only one who should try to sound like Nick Cave.

Ummmmm..... I'm pretty sure it's not a cover. Cohen wrote the song.

23:26 / 07.03.09

Even if I do accept that the "Ride of the Valkyries" bit is a deliberate choice to highlight our collective association with the music as a "Vietnam theme" (undeniably there are other moments in the film - the V-J Day kiss, the moon landing, JFK - where we are meant to recognize famous cultural iconography, altered and seen through the lens of this parallel world), it doesn't change that it's not a very good decision. (It's like when I'm asked to review the portfolio of an aspiring artist and when I point out basic errors in perspective or anatomy I'm met with the response "yeah that's how I draw, man, that's my style." Being deliberate does not necessarily absolve it of being wrong.)

I guess I'm let down because I thought the very first trailer did a really good job with the music choice - I would never, ever have thought that Watchmen would be best accompanied by a remix of an obscure Smashing Pumpkins B-side, but I thought it worked brilliantly, set the tone perfectly and made me hear that song in a truly different way. It was a clever, original choice and created a strong impression. Nothing else in the film, save the repurposed Philip Glass music, comes close to that, it's all very obvious, deliberately so or not.

The one thing I'm really enjoying about all this movie stuff is that it's creating a huge awareness and interest in the book - every film review I've read devotes equal space to talking about the book. Friends of mine who have never read a comic are calling me to tell me that they're halfway through reading it and "it's really good!" I see that yellow cover in the hands of people on the bus or sitting in cafes, daily. People know the names "Rorschach" and "Dr Manhattan." It's really quite surreal but I love it.

23:27 / 07.03.09

Nick Cave is the only one who should try to sound like Nick Cave.

Not sure if I'm reading this right, but Leonard Cohen has been in the music biz for a lot longer than Nick Cave.

23:40 / 07.03.09

Oh and yeah, the song played in the film is the original, written by Cohen. It's been covered countless times but Nite Owl and Silk Spectre are banging to the original.

00:59 / 08.03.09

They should have banged to the sound of Billie Holiday's "You're my thrill", is all I'm saying at this point.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

01:49 / 08.03.09

Good lord, this movie sounds like terrible pornography.

Cowboy Scientist

07:27 / 08.03.09

You should really see this.

10:42 / 08.03.09

Now I know how Haus feels about being Bruce Willis.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

15:45 / 08.03.09

Cowboy Scientist, granticus has already linked to that one page back.

Cowboy Scientist

16:01 / 08.03.09

Oh! sorry. Don't know how I missed that...

17:37 / 08.03.09

Hell, Haus ain't got nothing on me.

21:05 / 08.03.09

Why do you feel like Bruce Willis, Papers?

22:38 / 08.03.09

Oh and yeah, the song played in the film is the original, written by Cohen. It's been covered countless times but Nite Owl and Silk Spectre are banging to the original.

Ah. Then the original is awful, awful stuff. There's been so many covers of that song, and I've never really put the time in to discover which was the original.

23:08 / 08.03.09

Ah. Then the original is awful, awful stuff.

.....

...I hardly think it's awful if it's one of the most covered songs of all time. I think that implies a certain respect and reverence for Cohen's original, no? Unless you think that all those musicians heard a shitty song and decided they could do better.

That song came out in 1984, one year before Watchmen is set. So it's probably being played on the Owlship radio.

23:18 / 08.03.09

Then the original is awful, awful stuff.

I never thought I'd see the day come on barbelith. Cohen, dissed.

ONLY NICE THINGS

00:34 / 09.03.09

I dunno - people cover "I Think I Love You" all the time, and the original is pretty dire. I'm more astonished that someone on Barbelith didn't know that Leonard Cohen wrote Hallelujah, but I suppose that between Shrek and The OC, it's an easy enough mistake to make.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

02:50 / 09.03.09

Cam, you're on the opposites. MattS claims---and admittedly he has yet to see this movie---that the version of "Hallelujah" was recorded after the time period. He thinks it possibly breaks the mood Snyder wanted; speaking as eyes, I say no matter as it was entirely too awkward. (The music, not the scene.)

03:17 / 09.03.09

I Think Hallelujah is a great song, but oh boy! could it be more wrong a choice for that scene? I mean, what did it have to do with the mood of the situation, i.e., adrenaline-induced, somewhat fetishist* sex in a quasi-scifi environment? But hey, the guy had an impotence issue earlier, but now he could get it up, so I guess it's time for a music which losely makes us think of "praise the lord, it's a miracle"! Snyder is not good with sublety, I suppose.

* yellow vinil long boots, man!

05:06 / 09.03.09

Watchmen = the "Chinese Democracy" of superhero movies. Long in gestation, bloated, pretty "eh."

I wish we'd gotten the Greengrass version. Synder handled this with fists of ham, alas. What small spark of fondness I have for the movie is fading now, one day later.

One of by biggest problems was the "brink of doomsday" factor. I just did not buy it and as substantial, suspenseful threat. People yak about it, we see headlines and some shots of a tank on TV, but it all felt like window dressing.

IMO, most of the flashbacks did not work very well. In the book, they're dynamite, but in the film, I thought they kept killing momentum. I'm going to dig out my Samm Hamm draft and see if he used the FBs. I always thought that the way to do the movie was to "smash" it up, pick up the major shards and create new material to illuminate the characters without extensive use of origin FBs.

Overall feeling: Bah-Hurmbug! Minor Bummer.

Sean the frumious Bandersnatch

05:07 / 09.03.09

That cartoon was better than the movie because it had a tentacle squid monster and a much better soundtrack.

Sean the frumious Bandersnatch

05:13 / 09.03.09

Actually, I kind of go back and forth on that first point. The idea to change the movie's ending to where Dr. Man was blamed for the mass deaths made a lot more sense than the comic’s original climax.

On the other hand, I've always thought that the space octopus looked like a chill guy to hang out with.

07:29 / 09.03.09

...I hardly think it's awful if it's one of the most covered songs of all time. I think that implies a certain respect and reverence for Cohen's original, no? Unless you think that all those musicians heard a shitty song and decided they could do better.

I can't speak to their tastes, but I find people have loads of unwarranted (imo) reverence for lots of things. Music remains as subjective as ever, and I just really did not like that song.

12:14 / 09.03.09

I liked it, but I'm a cat person, and "Watchmen - The Movie" - as it was called here in Brazil, at times behaved more like a dog that wants too much to be your friend. I would have preferred a more restrained tone, but that would be unfeasible unless they really had the much needed legroom of a 12-part TV series. I wonder why they didn't went the LoTR way and split the movie in two, releasing the second part one years after the first...

Anyway - even though the film keeps the story's plot, structure and resolution, the most noticeable change is in tone in certain scenes, and some fans from the original work might have a problem with that. I did, but obviously I didn't think it to be the wreck I was anticipating (or I wouldn't have paid to see it twice as I did). However, the movie sells short some of the comics cleverest moments. Also, a couple of times it gets hard to ignore the feeling that you're watching a big budget high school play (the final face-off between Nite Owl and Ozymandias, which, alas, was inexistent in the comic, hurts).

Expect pacing problems. Scenes don't breathe long enough for some of the big impact moments (there are many) to resonate properly, which, in a story such as this, it's a crime (hopefully, this might be fixed in the restored Director's Cut to be released on DVD).

My favorite scene was a small Walter Kovacs having his hair tousled friendly by one of his mom's customers while others waited in line (It's in the beginning of the movie, in the montage sequence, only a couple of seconds but I found it really cute, made me grin from ear to ear).

My favorite character was Doctor Manhattan. Everytime he was on screen it was win time; I think Billy Crudup did something really special there. Least favorite was Ozymandias, because he wasn't the same character as in the comics, for the worse, I think.

And that's it, I guess. If you're a fan of the comic, you have reasons to care; if you're not a fan of the comic, why bother? But, if you're a fan of cinema, then this movie offers plenty for you to chew on, both because of its successes and because of its failures. I could go on and on for pages analyzing it, but thankfully being at work prevents me from doing so.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

13:33 / 09.03.09

For the interested.

15:40 / 09.03.09

My favorite character was Doctor Manhattan. Everytime he was on screen it was win time

I thought Manhattan looked fantastic as long as he wasn't speaking - unfortunately the lip sync animation was a bit wonky and continually reminded me that he was CG. Crudup's voice was great, though.

16:02 / 09.03.09

i saw this friday, on the train to work the metro had a mock up of the newfrontiersman newspaper as its front and back pages. half the train was reading it so i was more exited than a man my age should be by friday evening.

i really liked it, liked the ending, liked rorschachs and was surprised to find myself feeling empathy for him where in the 80s reading the comic i saw him as a terrible psychopath (rather than a lost and vulnerable one - thats 20 years working in mental health for you).

i thought dan was suitably nebbish, and was pleased that nightowl1 wasn't killed for no good reason - though guess he was killed by veidt ultimately.

i liked the denseness of it, so much rich information that it needed a second viewing, maybe a third.

agree the soundtrack was clunky at times but liked the fact that on the whole it was music of the time it was portraying (except for that stupid cover of desolation row at the end)

a few shortcomings, uneven in tone at times, skirted over some stuff assuming you just knew, and agree that rorschach, nightowl and silkspectre were too athletic in the fight scenes but as good as it was ever going to be unless it was a HBO 12 part series.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

16:52 / 09.03.09

That's pretty much my opinion: I was underwhelmed, but considering how awful it could have been, I did enjoy it.

My favorite performances were from Jackie Earle Haley and Patrick Wilson. Something about Wilson really bringing Nite Owl II's schlubbiness to life really stuck with me. I have no idea why.

Aha! I am Klarion

17:31 / 09.03.09

I totally agree that portrayal of Ozymandias was the weakest link in the film.

Aha! I am Klarion

17:40 / 09.03.09

Forgot to mention this LOL moment, for Wicker Women's sake.

But I recently watched a Tivoed Leonard Cohen documentary/cover concert where (!) Nick Cave (!) talks about how when he discovered Cohen's records it was the first time he felt "cool" about music (esp. at having discovered something for himself) and that it led was one of the things directly responsible for him becoming a musician.

Aha! I am Klarion

18:10 / 09.03.09

case in point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zthHfk2CYy8&feature=related

how I feel about correcting you (love ya):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLqLU_Ri3s0&feature=related

21:13 / 09.03.09

was pleased that nightowl1 wasn't killed for no good reason

Expect that scene to show up in the extended edition later this year. It was filmed and bits of it are seen in one of the trailers...

21:21 / 09.03.09

And, in the scene when Nite Owl II and Rorschach go to a bar to investigate, you can see one coque-haired guy sort of shrugging in the background, like in the book. That scene is certainly going to be in the extended version, which I hope will also extend the Dr. Manhattan time perspective chapter and the Rorschach background.

And truth be told, the movie would have worked better with the original Squid ending. And it would be so easy to set it up with half a dozen tidbits throughout the movie. All that time wasted on gore and slo-mo...

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