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Underground > Comic Books >

The madness of John Byrne

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03:42 / 29.12.04

So, any word on how well his Doom Patrol is doing? Sales?

the last issue was at #102 on the Diamond distribution sales chart. apparently, however, DC has guaranteed Byrne 18 issues. i suspect guilt is involved somewhere. this run might be like a retirement plan for him or something.

i wonder who is to blame for this. maybe DC. maybe the retailers are continuing to conspire against him. maybe Byrne's fans didn't pray hard enough.

Byrnesy was up in Arms when Marvel cancelled X-Men: The Lost Years, but it was (at the time at least) The worst-selling X-Men comic in history.

not only that, but according to some post of his that i read, he is apparently waiting for a formal apology from Marvel for cancelling the series. until he receives one, he refuses to work for them or something. i think that's also why he and his most loyal acolytes always type M***** instead of Marvel.

12:53 / 29.12.04

It's so sad...he used to be good and much less of an asshole (though even then, back in the 80s, when I loved his X-Men, FF and Alpha Flight, even his short Hulk run and short West Coast Avengers run, which was a bit wonky but fun, he had a rep for being a jerk). Bendis and Morrison often say stuff like 'he was great a while ago, now he's not good anymore and a lunatic to boot.' Morrison specifically said (when presented with a question about Byrne's criticizing Moss' X-Men run) "What my 80s art hero meant to say was..."

12:57 / 29.12.04

And I dug his Superman run too. His She-Hulk was fun the first time around, 2nd time around was starting to wear thin but still fun. He started to lose it around the time of Next Men, his FF riff (Mission: Danger or something like that), Babe, and his Wonder Woman run. His WW was the beginning of "All John Byrne = crap", except his Batman/Captain America goofy 1940s riff comic was cute.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

13:46 / 29.12.04

So, any word on how well his Doom Patrol is doing? Sales?

From the top 300 list for November:

102 DOOM PATROL #6 $2.50 DC 21,841

Outsold by Ex Machina, Firestorm, and Hawkman but selling better than Fallen Angel, the first issue of The Question, and Gotham Central.

Byrne has stated that it's been renewed to issue #18, but by March, he will be "drawing" 3 books a month. Someone at DC likes him.

Haus of Mystery

13:47 / 29.12.04

Maybe we should have a competition to see who can get banned the quickest on the Byrne-matrix.

I don't believe JB exists any more. He's being written by a cadre of misanthropic fan-beards whose emotional life peaked when the Phoenix died for the first time. His convention appearances are achieved through a clever puppet made of paper-mache, dog shit and pubic hair.

14:26 / 29.12.04

Well, him drawing ACTION with Gail Simone writing could be fun, if they get an inker to clean up his pencils like Jerry Ordway did with the JLA arc. But even those were pretty weak...

18:15 / 29.12.04

check this out: Byrne is railing against Grant Morrison and All-Star Superman and getting hosed by posters who are pointing out that he's completely missed GM's point.

20:26 / 29.12.04

Byrne's M.O. is that he gets so into minutae of interpretation of each word and sentence, thinking he's Socrates and an expert brilliant debater, able to uncover the hidden meaning that no one else can see (i.e., what he projects onto it), and is so confident that his analysis of said minutae is correct.

Sad. And stupid.

Brigade du jour

20:44 / 29.12.04

Maybe we should have a competition to see who can get banned the quickest on the Byrne-matrix.

I am soooo tempted to participate in this. Only trouble is, I'll have to bite my tongue so I don't just jump up and down and go 'blah you're a twat JB and everyone here licks your arsehole blah blah!' two lines into my first post. Ah fuck it, I like a challenge!

21:02 / 29.12.04

The only way to resolve this is to ask Morrison to clarify what he meant. I don't think anything can constructive can come out of it quibbling about it. Unless the intent is to stir up a "defend Morrison from the big bad Byrne" brouhaha.

reads almost like an invitation eh?

23:27 / 29.12.04

Someone tell that Eric Kleefeld to get a fucking haircut.

01:42 / 30.12.04

How does Byrne win an argument by agreeing with what Morrison actually said ("far from being goofy or childish," which Byrne quotes) and then interpreting it as just the opposite? Is this his mutant power finally manifesting itself? Or has he, after being orphaned at an early age and inheriting vast riches and a stately manor, honed his rhetorical ju-jitsu to a level beyond my feeble understanding?

01:42 / 30.12.04

Nice one.

But on point of fact, today the comic stores had copies of Byrne's new DOOM PATROL and FANTASTIC FOUR VISIONARIES. Out of curiosity, I looked through each. I loved his FF work, all of it (his final issues, inked by other people, were starting to get a bit thin but still good overall), and it still holds up. I love that stuff.

DOOM PATROL's art, however, is rushed, cliche, simple and just plain horrible.

I hope when he draws ACTION he really puts more work into it. Or maybe he's just totally lost and thinks his new stuff is just as good or better than his old stuff. Yikes.

Haus of Mystery

09:33 / 30.12.04

Jesus jumping Fuck, I had the misfortune to glance through that Superman:'True Brit' thing he did with Russ Abbot. Horrendous garish artwork, really rushed and chepa looking, painfully unfunny in the segmant I read and generally an abhorrent waste of everyone's time. £22 as well! Fuck that.

Debs - maybe we could be subtle. Try and be accepted by the board before derailing from within. We might go mad in the process, might lose a few Lithers in the process, but it'd be FUN.

10:24 / 30.12.04

do my eye decive me? or is Byrne losing his own argument to a majority of his own fans? and how many of them do you think may be in trouble now?

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

11:47 / 30.12.04

I have an account too. Had to point out that there's a place that four gay strangers could meet and form a super team without circumstances seeming contrived.

It's called a fucking gay bar, John.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

21:51 / 30.12.04

Byrne's not just losing his own argument to his fans... he's losing his own argument WHICH HE'S ONLY HAVING WITH HIMSELF to his fans.

01:53 / 31.12.04

You know, I've never been to a place where anyone could meet and form a super team without circumstances seeming contrived.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

09:16 / 31.12.04

From that thread...

I wanna see a Superman who has not revealed his identity to Lois, Barry Allen as Flash, Hal Jordan as Green Lantern, Dick Grayson as Robin, Barbara Gordon as Batgirl and Batman as a detective. I want superheroes stories that are not deconstructionist with interesting secret identity dynamics. I want these stories to be done "straight" with modern day writers and artists and all the wonderful things that our current technology can provide.

I want to cry.

09:39 / 31.12.04

“I want superheroes stories that are not deconstructionist with interesting secret identity dynamics. I want these stories to be done "straight" with modern day writers and artists and all the wonderful things that our current technology can provide.”

Which I think roughly translates as:

“I want old stories on new paper. I want to read computer-coloured versions of stories I read growing up. But I reserve the right to use a computer to post online about how much I love the past”

10:21 / 31.12.04

I'm beginning to actually pity the man.

12:40 / 31.12.04

“I want old stories on new paper. I want to read computer-coloured versions of stories I read growing up. But I reserve the right to use a computer to post online about how much I love the past”

let's not neglect the subtext of "i want this new story to make me feel the way the old stories did when i was a kid, without challenging my preconceptions in any way."

which, of course, can never happen. it's kind of sad.

I'm beginning to actually pity the man.

it must be hard, in a lot of senses. i mean, he's an old man now, and he never got to be Jack Kirby when he grew up. what's sadder is that he doesn't understand or like the work of the people who, in some senses, did.

the core of his tragedy is that he's tried so hard to be the next Jack Kirby that he doesn't understand that the reason Kirby was Kirby was that he was constantly trying to do something new instead of slavishly trying to keep the flame of something from before his time.

-----

i'm trying a new approach now. i've begun posting under the nom de guerre Terry McMahon. i'm trying to win their confidence while pretending to be a slightly ditzy person who innocently says things which, hopefully, will get a few people to think about things differently. basically, i'm trying to pretend to be one of them while at the same time talking in a positive way about stuff like All-Star Superman and the value of having a sense of humor about the absurdity of superheroes.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

14:39 / 31.12.04

Dude, they'll smell you out and kill you like a goldfish. Still, I doff my hat to you.

15:10 / 31.12.04

Dude, they'll smell you out and kill you like a goldfish. Still, I doff my hat to you.

well, here's Terry's most recent post. anyone have any feedback?

i'm trying to build bridges here, and i'm using a sort of "passive resistance" approach to deflect potential attacks. even though he's clearly a bully, JB likes to think of himself as the underdog against the snobs, so i'm trying to look sweet and well-intentioned and innocent enough that even he will recognize bullying when he sees it.

i was thinking i might post the password to Terry's account on here, and make her a joint project for Barbeloids in general. what would you guys say to that?

Haus of Mystery

15:24 / 31.12.04

I think it would become quickly apparent that it's a suit, and we'd be booted off quicksmart. Better that others have their own identities perhaps? Good post though Diz.

15:33 / 31.12.04

thanks. you may be right.

but maybe we should get our own accounts and go in all nice-like and say positive things. i think that the mentality pervading the Byrne forum is, in many ways, one of the most cancerous memeplexes currently riddling the Body Comic, but maybe we should go all i-Life on the cancer and hug it until it evolves?

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

15:23 / 01.01.05

I just made a heartfelt post on why Flex Mentallo is the best love letter to superhero comics ever. Let's cross the beams and pray, people. We can save John's soul!

Our Lady Has Left the Building

19:29 / 01.01.05

Byrne on Seaguy.
Not having read the book, and based solely on your enthusiastic endorsement, I cant imagine how anyone could this this was not a book mocking superheroes.

Morrison shares one thing with most of the Image guys: "If I say this, it is true". He says he loves superheroes -- yet I have seen little or nothing in his work that demonstrates he even understands 'em, let alone loves 'em!

I presume the 'this this' was supposed to be 'say this'. I just wonder how Byrne defines 'understanding superheroes'?

20:10 / 01.01.05

John Byrne.... showing his sweet, sweet love of superheroes, one crappy comic at a time.

Haus of Mystery

20:17 / 01.01.05

By 'love' I presume he means 'endleslly regurgitate the stories I loved as a fat headed child, with the sole purpose of pleasing me and my drooling acolytes, drawn in a woefully dated style, with a total lack of charm energy & enthusiasm, whilst dragging superhero comics back into the tawdry ghetto they crawled out of, resulting in a total creative cul-de-sac and the laughable rantings of a bitter, bigoted fucktard'?

Yes?

20:57 / 01.01.05

Ha Ha.

This is the best thread on Comic Books right now.

Can someone post more links to his opinions it's a pain to browse through his forum.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

02:39 / 02.01.05

I am loving the fact that Byrne is hating comics he hasn't read yet and dismissing other people's opinions of them because he believes their opinions are wrong.

Did anyone but me read either of his horror novels?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

02:54 / 02.01.05

At least he's finally come up with the definite non-contrived way of having a gay superteam.

Of course, now HE's said it, it makes so much more sense than it did before.

Haus of Mystery

10:46 / 02.01.05

Horror novels?

15:55 / 02.01.05

Mm. The Whipping Boy and Fear Book.

Both out of print, which may explain a lot about why JB has so much at stake in being a big fish in the small pond of comics, and why he has so much scorn for "civilians"--who, after all, greeted his foray into "their" media with utter indifference...

And to answer the question, no, I've never read either of 'em--though I did read a Chris Claremont novel once, for my sins.

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