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Torchwood, Season 2 (NO SPOILERS)

 
  

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h1ppychick
16:55 / 18.01.08
And there's no way Jack would just have said "Miss Me?" because he'd been away, and was now back, and they were gaping vacantly at him?

Sometimes a line is just a line, you know.
 
 
Evil Scientist
21:54 / 18.01.08
Yes it isn't exactly up there in the top ten Buffy quotes of all time is it?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:00 / 18.01.08
And maybe it was an in-joke supposed to be an extra bonus for the fanboys? (To be honest, I'm more inclined to h1ppych1ck's way of looking at it, but y'know...)

People can be SO ungrateful...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:37 / 19.01.08
From Doctor Who, at an estimate, Jack was away for only a day or two, yet the Torchwood crew all act like it's weeks. Mind you, in DW he returned to the lair during the day and in TW he meets them at night, which might mean that he actually goes off on holiday for several weeks. I know I would.
 
 
Lama glama
22:18 / 19.01.08
They were sent off to the Himalayas by the Master, so the Torchwood crew might have been held up there for a few weeks, leaving Jack potter about Cardiff for a while without them, or something, I don't know. Not my best fanwank explanation I'll admit!

That was a good episode alright. Some of the jokes and innuendos were played to death, the blowfish, as mentioned up-thread, just spouted cheapo Satan Pit dialogue, but other than that, fun! Its sense of humour was more prominent and the gang can seem to pull of the comedy stuff better than the more earnest dramatic moments.

I hope the quality stays this high at least and with writers like James Moran, Cath Tregenna, Matt Jones, et al there's a chance it could all be pretty good. I'm sure there'll be a Combat or Countrycide-esque disaster, but with the show's tongue planted firmly in cheek it's possible that they'll be palatable.

I really can't wait for Martha's episodes though.
 
 
Feverfew
10:02 / 20.01.08
I will stick my hand up, however, and say that I thought Jack's assessment of offices was really, really... I don't know... cute, maybe, is the right word? He's travelled to opposite ends of the timestream, fought, died, killed, made sexy tiem with as many people as he can, so of course he'd find the relative normality and stability of an office exciting, so it seemed like a really nice throwaway moment.

Maybe 'Low-rent Whedon' was unduly harsh - Buffy and Angel hadn't been on television for, what, four and three years respectively when Torchwood started and, even then, they weren't exactly mainstream television, so I can understand a certain amount of cribbing from success on Torchwood's part; it may be an attempt at repackaging the same sort of material for a British mainstream (or, at least, mainstream sci-fi) audience to make it more accessible, before then selling it back to America, which, to me, is the most interesting prospect. Just don't make me use the phrase 'cultural lens'.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:40 / 23.01.08
"No phones!"

Today Cardiff, tomorrow the world. A very stupid story, but the characterisation of team Torchwood was fun.
 
 
h1ppychick
19:49 / 23.01.08
I am loving Ianto this season so far. He has had some epic one-liners.
 
 
h1ppychick
19:54 / 23.01.08
I also enjoyed how Jack shooting the soldier in the shoulder (rather than in the head - the classic evil nemesis exposition mistake) made him cough up blood from his, erm, lungs. Excellent medicine.
 
 
The Strobe
21:50 / 23.01.08
You know what? That was much better. I mean, everyone's still forgotten that Owen's a rapist, and Ianto's justifying his position on the team through sheer funnybone alone... but it was basically not bad.

Unfortunately, it bore little resemblance to last week, and even less to last season; I mean, now every bobby in Cardiff knows about Torchwood... this whole "above the law" and "secret" thing seems somewhat ridiculous.

But yeah, not bad.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
06:42 / 24.01.08
Yeah - I enjoyed that well enough. I quite liked that we got to see the team once again being fairly efficient, but that the incompetant chancer factor was acknowledge through the discussion of the previous results of using the mind scanning machine. Ianto was once again much better - now he's deadpan humour guy I'm growing a lot more fond of him.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:06 / 24.01.08
Ianto's great.

They were sent off to the Himalayas by the Master, so the Torchwood crew might have been held up there for a few weeks, leaving Jack potter about Cardiff for a while without them, or something, I don't know. Not my best fanwank explanation I'll admit!


Is it something like...

Jack disappears during the election campaign - there are "vote Saxon" posters up on the door of the deserted ballroom in "Captain Jack Harkness". The Doctor picks him up. They go to the end of the world. They come back, but more time has elapsed on Earth than has elapsed for them - the election has taken place. As Prime Minister, The Master then sends Torchwood to the Himalayas. The Toklophane arrive, and the point is then set to which everything reverts in the last episode, at which point Jack returns to Cardiff and waits for a good opportunity to make a dramatic entrance. I'm not sure if anyone makes a good case for how long apart Doctor leaves modern day/Doctor returns to modern day are in sequential time, though.
 
 
distractile
10:03 / 24.01.08
A little slow in places, but the stabby bits were gratifyingly brutal and the menace actually felt menacing for a change. I like Torchwood a lot more now that it plays a bit more like an ensemble show and less like a vehicle for worship of Captain Jack (who I never really warmed to in his previous appearances). But didn't it seem to anyone else like this was basically "Cyberwoman" warmed over?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:41 / 24.01.08
It didn't have Emo Ianto threatening to kill everyone though. His reaction to Owen suggesting they all have sex speaks for everyone everywhere. Like I said last week, I think they've quietly dropped the pretense that Torchwood are secret, they still have a secret base, but everyone knows they are around.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
21:02 / 24.01.08
Like I said last week, I think they've quietly dropped the pretense that Torchwood are secret, they still have a secret base, but everyone knows they are around.

Even that's quite Whedony, I suppose. I mean it's very similar to how at the beginning of Buffy the demons and vampires and the like were portrayed as something secret that not many people knew about. By the end of Season 3 however it was pretty clear that everybody in Sunnydale knew, they just didn't like to talk about it much. Same kinda thing happening here I think.
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:00 / 25.01.08
Watched this last night.

Cracking episode, well for the T-whizzle anyway. This is how I want Torchwood to be. Let's face it sleeper agents (some of whom are programmed to think they are human, and they have a plan) are always good for a story or two. Let's just hope they don't let this plot-point just fade out like they had a tendency to do last year.

I'm finding the show much more amusing this year. Ianto had some quality moments. Plus the "Let's all have sex." line just makes me chuckle on a purile level.

Good action scenes. I thought all of the Cell members really sold menace well, especially bladehanded-businessman who looked pretty badass wandering about covered in blood firing one-handed at soldiers (bit of a Terminator vibe there).

I also enjoyed how Jack shooting the soldier in the shoulder (rather than in the head - the classic evil nemesis exposition mistake) made him cough up blood from his, erm, lungs. Excellent medicine.

He had just been run down by a Torchwood 4x4 which, forcefield aside, did take him down. I think that's what caused the internal injuries.

Like I said last week, I think they've quietly dropped the pretense that Torchwood are secret, they still have a secret base, but everyone knows they are around.

Well the police know about them, but Beth had no idea, and neither did the other cell members until she was taken to The Hub (my interpretation anyway), hence the final cell member saying that Torchwood were now factored into the invasion plans.

That said, little ol' Grannies know who they are. But little ol' Grannies know everything.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
14:23 / 25.01.08
Not hugely overwhelmed by the Gwen/Jack moment. I'm not convinced we really need that particular love angle brewing.

Makes me feel all ick, that does. It's embarrassing for all involved and faintly perplexing as to why the writers want to shoehorn it in. For all that he's a highly-trained actor, John Barrowman appears to be constitutionally incapable of faking heterosexuality. It's like watching a dog try to dance.

Re: episode 1 - I totally called the kiss, but not the fight. I preferred the fight, actually. Could James Marsters have BEEN any more arch and innuendo-tastic? After about the fifteenth cock/weapon/wife crack I just wanted to shoot Cap'n John Harper in the face, and not with Captain Jack's secret trouser pistol either. Also, it would have been interesting if Marsters had been either a lieutenant or a major, so that the chat about rank, insubordination and leadership would have actually meant something.

The fish-alien was good until he opened his mouth and spewed forth some truely shite lines.

Agreed. Even the Voice of Keith Allen couldn't save those clunkers.

Someone, somewhere, has picked up their Ianto Jones action figure and mused aloud "What shall we do with you?" - and the answer's a good one. The erstwhile tea-boy has suddenly started dressing sharper and being sarcastic and funny.

I wonder if we are to presume that this new sassiness is a direct result of his protected status as Jack's lover and that he's now sort of a court jester/fool with licence to take the piss/deflate Jack's pomposity and portentousness? I do hope so. I also like the fact that he's not too camp about it - there's actually more of a Doctor Ten(nant) vibe about Ianto Mark II, both sartorially and attitudinally, which is perhaps why Jack is drawn to him?
 
 
uncle retrospective
21:01 / 25.01.08
I feel sick. Really, I'm disgusted with myself.
I enjoyed that! What happens to me if I become a Torchwood fan? Everything I have believed will be a lie.


THE HORROR
 
 
Poke it with a stick
21:30 / 25.01.08
I'm still enjoying Torchwood this time round (two episodes in a row? It's a new record...), but is anyone taking the geek factor as far as me and doing the "missions" on the website?

It's nice to see them attempting to build a little more context around the show, even if some of the video is hammier than a hammy thing in Jamon Jamon.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:23 / 26.01.08
Whisky Priestess For all that he's a highly-trained actor, John Barrowman appears to be constitutionally incapable of faking heterosexuality. It's like watching a dog try to dance.

Posted without any other comment than 'Posted without comment', which is a comment in itself on how I believe the quoted remarks to be of questionable intent, did you see what I did there?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:25 / 26.01.08
Or to put it less snarkily, why, WP, do you believe that John Barrowman cannot act hetero?
 
 
Lama glama
23:16 / 26.01.08
Not hugely overwhelmed by the Gwen/Jack moment. I'm not convinced we really need that particular love angle brewing.

WP: Makes me feel all ick, that does. It's embarrassing for all involved and faintly perplexing as to why the writers want to shoehorn it in. For all that he's a highly-trained actor, John Barrowman appears to be constitutionally incapable of faking heterosexuality. It's like watching a dog try to dance.

I don't think that's the angle they're going for with the Jack and Gwen relationship. Considering that "Sleeper" was thematically very similar to Who season 3's "Human Nature/Family of Blood," makes me think that Jack's character progression will be similar to what the Doctor went through last year. There will presumably be issues of identity (so far he believes he's going to live until the end of time, incapable of evolving or changing, so where does that leave him in relation to everybody else), solitude (not many Time Agents left- John and 7 others, plus they're all in the future). Both are similar to issues the Doctor has been dealing with in the last series of Who.

As Jack is basically our Doctor surrogate in Torchwood, it makes sense to explore this themes within the more "adult" remit of Torchwood. I interpreted his scenes with Gwen in episodes one and two to be his own attempt at engaging in an entirely platonic Doctor/Companion-esque relationship. However, through the lens of Torchwood, this has the potential of getting all fucked up, with Gwen maybe wanting yet another exotic co-worker relationship with Jack instead of Owen. This has the potential to be an interesting spin on the enigmatic time-traveler/companion relationship, and it's possible that's what the writers want to do, instead of just pairing them up in a shoehorny fashion.

Or maybe they'll invert the Doctor/Martha relationship, having Jack pine and be doe-eyed over Gwen.


Or maybe they'll just be fuck-buddies in the forest, until they come so hard that etc..
 
 
Lama glama
23:17 / 26.01.08
And why I'm writing long-winded Torchwood posts on a Saturday night is best left unanswered.
 
 
gridley
14:01 / 28.01.08
But didn't it seem to anyone else like this was basically "Cyberwoman" warmed over?

Yeah, my enjoyment of wisecracking Ianto was slightly soured by him lacking in empathy for the old girlfriend has become an evil alien killing machine scenario.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
19:49 / 28.01.08
I'm getting the impression that they've learned from their mistakes in season one and would rather nobody mentioned them, including the characters, thank you very much.

That was REALLY. REALLY. REALLY. Stupid.

I fucking loved it.
 
 
Feverfew
20:18 / 28.01.08
I'm getting the impression that they've learned from their mistakes in season one and would rather nobody mentioned them, including the characters, thank you very much.

Mm. Maybe. Kind of like series 2 of Life on Mars fundamentally totally ignored the last episode of the first season as it was hastily rewritten, except in Torchwood's case for several episodes of the previous season?

The episode was entertaining fun, with attempts at genuine horror, but I still feel like Torchwood is on an empty, camera-less motorway at sunset, and yet still hasn't put the foot to the floor yet, instead wanting to stay safe until it knows it can get away with it.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
21:18 / 28.01.08
why, WP, do you believe that John Barrowman cannot act hetero?

Fair point, I should unpack, I guess.

Hmm. It may well be quite unfair of me to blame the utter lack of sexual chemistry brewing (IMHO) between those two characters on poor old Barrowman alone; it's probably as much the fault of "Gwen" and "Jack" (and the writers) as it is attributable to the actors (if you see what I mean).

Knowing Barrowman is gay in real life does colour how I perceive the character he plays, I suppose, particularly given that the character in question is meant to be attracted to (and attractive to) pretty much anything that moves. However, it does occur to me that in writing the character, the writers may also, whether consciously or unconsciously, be writing partly for the actor who plays that character, rather than in a vacuum, so perhaps gay relationships with Jack and Bloke are written more carefully or sensitively, because the writers are aware that the actor will know whereof they speak, and so they will have a more heightened awareness of whether both the situation and the dialogue are sufficiently convincing and believable.

Especially considering that many actors do bring a lot of themselves (their unique experiences, memories, personal qualities good and bad) to particular roles, it would certainly be interesting to know whether Russell T. originally wrote the role of Jack with Barrowman in mind. I sometimes wonder whether Jack's umbrella sexuality is by way of being a sop to the het women watching, and whether it wouldn't have been a more interesting way to go to make the character explicitly gay.

Do I find the hetero love angle they seem to be attempting to push trying and unconvincing? Yes. But do Jack and Gwen fizzle like a wet sparkler because of poor writing/character development, or because I am imposing my own prejudice that Barrowman couldn't possibly fancy Gwen-actress (sorry, can't recall her name) - and, indeed, vice-versa - upon the scenario? Probably a bit of both, to be honest, coupled with a general, I don't know, sexlessness and lack of eroticism that I find in much of Torchwood, and particularly Cap'n Jack, precisely because it/he is trying so hard to be sexy.

If it's any help, I reacted in much the same "My eyes!" way to the Ianto/Jack stopwatch moment in Season 1, and I'm far from having a problem with male/male flirtation or eroticism. And I wasn't over-thrilled with (straight) James Marsters's somewhat cartoon-camp take on Captain John - although I am more inclined to lay that one at the writers' door, given the ludicrous amount of panto innuendo he was forced to spout.

So, anyway, that's my take on it. Simply put, it just doesn't convince me for the reasons outlined above, and probably some more I haven't thought of yet, but I didn't mean to imply that gay actors can only play gay roles and straight actors straight roles. Perhaps I don't think Barrowman's an especially great actor full stop - but then again, it could be inconsistencies in the character and the weakness of some of the writing prejudicing me against the poor guy on whose shoulders rests the responsibility of pulling it off with sufficient aplomb.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
21:20 / 28.01.08
God that's long. Sorry.

I am interested in the whole actor/character/writer trinamic though - calls to mind certain playwrights or filmmakers who have "muses" around whom characters are created, bent or shaped (Beckett/Whitelaw and Burton/Depp spring to mind).
 
 
Lama glama
13:24 / 29.01.08
I liked the episode because it featured the word fuckflaps.
 
 
iamus
23:20 / 29.01.08
it would certainly be interesting to know whether Russell T. originally wrote the role of Jack with Barrowman in mind.

That's a no. He had to audition for the role (which incidentally was meant to be English until his performance changed everyone's minds).
 
 
Lama glama
11:24 / 30.01.08
I don't think that John Barrowman is incapable of male/female chemistry. He had plenty of it with Billie Piper, and he did seem to spark with Freema Agyeman during the phew scenes they shared together. It may just be that, as you said WP, there's no chemistry between him and Eve Myles.
 
 
Evil Scientist
12:33 / 30.01.08
It may just be that, as you said WP, there's no chemistry between him and Eve Myles.

A big part of the problem, IMO, here is that (as often happens in TW) this Jack/Gwen thing has dropped in pretty much out of nowhere. Even if we count the midnight gun training in Season 1 as flirtation there's really been no indication that they fancy each other.

Alright Jack apparently fancies anything pretty with a pulse, but he and Gwen seemed to be developing more along the lines of friends rather than potential lovers. However, the opening episode of S2 seemed to suggest, subtextually, to me that Gwen only said yes to Rhys's marriage proposal because Jack wasn't around to sweep her off her feet.

There's no chemistry because this came out of nowhere.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:00 / 30.01.08
They are certainly fighting the car crash of continuity in season one, where you couldn't guarentee that characters in episode five would remember and react to what had happened in episode four, even if you'd think it was vital to the plot.

Tonight's episode, despite the literalness of a rip in the fabric of space and time sounding exactly like someone ripping polystyrene, was well done and a lot more exciting than last week's teaser suggested, in a way taking the similar story from the first season and redoing it in such a way as to make what happened interesting this time. I just hope Tosh introduced Tommy to the wide range of 21st century contraceptive choices and that he didn't insist on using 'Jumbo'.
 
 
Evil Scientist
20:13 / 30.01.08
Harriet and Gerald need their own show (or at least an episode).

They need it so terribly terribly badly.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:09 / 30.01.08
Hate to point it out, but once again, if they had sent him back in time, having first cut off his arm, he would not have had to go back to the front.
 
  

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