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Big Brother 8.

 
  

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ONLY NICE THINGS
10:21 / 08.06.07
From the comments to the latest Guardian media post:

Kemuri,

Your comment yesterday was in fact: 'the racism laws mean that the majority just think it, rather than say it... '

Can you confirm for the record that you really believe that the majority are thinking it? This would explain a lot, and could conceivably save time later on.


Have I been channeling?
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
10:37 / 08.06.07
Just as Emily seemed to genuinely think it's OK for white teenagers to use the word as a messing-about tease, it seemed that Charley wasn't sure whether she had grounds to be offended.

If true, that's terribly sad. Of course, it would hardly be the first time that someone who had been victimised found themselves worrying that they were making a big fuss over nothing and might even be partly to blame.

I think the crux of the matter is that while I, a white person, certainly would never presume to tell Charley how she should feel about or respond to having that word used in her presence, I would have absolutely no compunction about telling Emily she was wrong, out of order, and that there was never any circumstance under which using it was acceptable. This would undoubtedly cause lots of problems in a social situation, but I *hope* other people here can see that this isn't a self-contradictory position to take.

(The uselessness of my saying, as a safely unaffected bystander, "Well what I'd have done is..." is a side issue.)
 
 
Olulabelle
10:55 / 08.06.07
I also think Charley genuinely liked Emily, so she was trying to marry her feelings of affection for Emily with the upset of being called such a thing. That's a pretty hard thing to do, to find that your friend has said something so awful to you. Much easier I would think to know how to feel when you have been called something awful by someone you have no feeling for, or during a row.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
11:14 / 08.06.07
It's also very difficult to know how to respond to a word that you find offensive at a really basic level, naively used by someone in a way that clearly wasn't meant to upset. I don't feel angry with Emily, it's pretty typical of a sheltered girl from a politically dubious background and she can't change that, I do think that she needs to pay some attention to the world beyond her because she quite clearly does not get it so hopefully this will be the kick up the arse she needs.
 
 
Blake Head
11:22 / 08.06.07
I can't help thinking it might be good if, say, places of education and work did all exclude someone for that kind of language. If a white colleague addressed a black colleague that way, wouldn't you expect severe discipline?

Absolutely. But I think the form that discipline takes is significant. The punitive rather than rehabilitative model that C4 have employed here would be, as you say, much more difficult to enforce in a less enclosed environment. But more than that, I’m not sure I’d want a system where we basically write off any individual who says something offensive, especially when there at least seems to have been a lack of intention to cause offence. I really don’t want to be defending racism, and I agree with the above points that it’s really immaterial - her language was still offensive, but I’m trying to put myself in the situation of someone who has said something offensive similar to that that they can’t take back, and where there's potentially a desire to re-learn what's appropriate and attempt to make up for it. I’m sure my work contract has something about treating others with respect, which, to the best of my ability, I try and do, but I’d be wary of the belief that one instance could entirely determine my ability to do that.

After a certain point, if one’s sexist or racist language has completely compromised one’s ability and the ability of others to do their jobs or receive an education then yes, clearly they need to be removed from that situation. But did that happen here? Would it have been possible for Emily to have received a formal warning, a reminder about the terms of her contract with the show, and an unequivocal statement on the unacceptability of that term and those like it, and then have to go through the more informal but maybe just as effective awkward, unpleasant re-socialisation with the group that she’d let down? I mean, not knowing the full details of the contract, I’d initially have said yes, that would be within the show’s producers’ discretion. As to whether the BB house is the optimum space for that sort of re-education, well, probably not, but it just struck me that... the rest of society doesn't (seem to me to) work that way. And I don’t know how it would work if it did.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
12:15 / 08.06.07
After a certain point, if one’s sexist or racist language has completely compromised one’s ability and the ability of others to do their jobs or receive an education then yes, clearly they need to be removed from that situation. But did that happen here? Would it have been possible for Emily to have received a formal warning, a reminder about the terms of her contract with the show, and an unequivocal statement on the unacceptability of that term and those like it, and then have to go through the more informal but maybe just as effective awkward, unpleasant re-socialisation with the group that she’d let down?

I suppose there are significant differences between the BB house and a place of work or education. As the only real responsibility of a housemate is to be generally entertaining, and even that isn't contractual, behaviour within the house doesn't ever impede anyone's ability to do their job or stop others from doing theirs. Also, as the house is such a public place, with no other real function except as a documentary theatre and showcase of British behaviours, I think it, ironically, actually is fulfilling its originally-intended role as a case study for debate about contemporary morals, conventions and taboos. Ironic because I think that intention was always the official one, but actually was secondary to entertainment and money-making. But in some way the permitted behaviour within the House is now seen to be obliged, particularly after the last Celeb Big Brother, to reflect and echo broader societal values. To allow a participant to use a racial slur and then only be ticked-off and asked to apologise wasn't seen as sufficient. We witnessed that with Jade and Jo O'Meara ~ and we saw last night that someone like Emily will apologise in the face of punishment, but not necessarily learn a thing. She was saying sorry as a means to save her own skin.

Not sure if I am expressing this very well. The house is apparently, currently, seen to have some obligation to mirror and model our contemporary British attitudes. An eviction like last night signals that racist terminology is entirely unacceptable. A discussion, a ticking-off and a mealy-mouthed apology would signal that racist language was open to discussion and some kind of grey area: that we have to be aware some people are very sensitive and don't understand that we would never use a term in an offensive way, because we have black mates and could never be racialist! but that some people outside might have interpreted it that way, and we're sorry for their sensitivities.

In a workplace or educational institution, I agree it could be handled differently, but the house, I feel, is seen as having to set an example and send a message.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:11 / 08.06.07
I really don’t want to be defending racism, and I agree with the above points that it’s really immaterial - her language was still offensive, but I’m trying to put myself in the situation of someone who has said something offensive similar to that that they can’t take back, and where there's potentially a desire to re-learn what's appropriate and attempt to make up for it.

I think in that position I would first want to show that I understood that what I had done was not acceptable. Perhaps I could do that by accepting that I could not hang out any more with the person I had called that, and that since we were in a house together, and it would be unfair for the other party to move out, I had to move out. After which, I could talk to my friends, get sensitivity training, like that. I don't think it is fair, though, to expect the recipient of the term to take responsiblity not only for trying to win Big Brother but also for hanging out with somebody who has shown that they are at best not actually aware of when they might be using racially offensive language, while educating her about hate speech at the same time. It sounds frankly anticompetitive.
 
 
Blake Head
13:25 / 08.06.07
No, I'd agree with all of that. I suspect at least some of my original doubt comes from whether to view the show primarily as an entertaining competition or microcosm as social experiment, and again there's a difference between exclusion from the workplace and something less formally arranged like a flatshare, even though in their own way they can both act as models for the larger society.

I don't know... Maybe they could make it into a task or something? This week on Big Brother: language sensitivity training - communicate respectfully or you don't get to eat (much).
 
 
miss wonderstarr
13:48 / 08.06.07
Well, workplaces and universities do run intercultural communications and sensitivity training... it's been parodied in the US Office for instance, but I'm sure it's also quite valid and useful if done properly. Might be a decent idea to try to incorporate some exercise about understanding different people's cultural identity, their baggage, norms, upbringing, the stereotypes they carry with them, the prejudices they've experienced and so on.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:48 / 08.06.07
The punitive rather than rehabilitative model that C4 have employed here

Does being expelled from a reality TV show really count as "punitive", though? It's hardly a long stretch in the big house - quite the opposite in fact.

Now, the front page stories claiming her family have disowned her - that's a little bit more harsh...
 
 
miss wonderstarr
14:58 / 08.06.07
From what I read in the story, some uncle had disowned her and said her family would probably be disappointed... so, a bit of a stretch from there to the headline.

Much as I dislike Emily, I'm also pretty dubious about the report coming out of the woodwork now. A national newspaper bases a front page story on a couple of teenagers doing he-said-she-said... "I once heard Emily say someone should work in KFC...", while an Asian lad now remembers he also heard her using a slur for his ethnicity, and how much it shocked him. It's all a bit sketchy. If we're basing stories on teenage gossip, then honestly you'd have "LINDA STEALS JANINE'S BF" on the front page every day. "She's a tart, reports Linda. I never liked her anyway and she ain't getting those earrings back."
 
 
Blake Head
15:08 / 08.06.07
Does being expelled from a reality TV show really count as "punitive", though?

Well I'd argue that it's punitive within the context of no longer being part of the competition, and no longer having the freedom to continue living within that social group. I'd agree that in itself that doesn't seem like much of a punishment, no.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
15:09 / 08.06.07
More half-remembered teenage gossip from a party two years ago, below! I think I remember I might have met Emily in 2005, come to think of it. I was a bit drunk but it looked like her. Yeah, I'm sure she was laughing at a black girl, mocking her. Did I challenge her? Course I did, but she just joked about it! Yeah, you can quote me on that.

Oh, and she put on a racist accent when she called up the local Chinese, once, if it's the same girl. Probably in 2004.




EXCLUSIVE
Em told black girl: Work in KFC



By JOHN COLES
JUNE 08, 2007


RACIST Emily Parr hates ethnics and the overweight — and branded a black girl a “fat n*****” who should “go work at KFC”.

Stacey Jones, 19, who was on the ex-Big Brother housemate’s drama course last year, said: “There was one girl called Gloria and Emily used to call her a fat n***** behind her back.

“Gloria got to hear about it and got very upset, but Emily didn’t seem to mind.”

Coursemate Ahmed Pearce, 19, added: “I saw her tell Gloria ‘Go and work at KFC’ — like that’s all she’s fit to do.



“It was a terrible thing to say but it didn’t bother Emily. That’s how she was.

“One of our course leaders was from New Zealand. Before we did a show that teacher would read out a native prayer as a good luck thing but Emily mocked it.

“She’s just not a very nice person and people have now seen that for themselves.”

Another teenager came forward last night to tell how Emily had called him a “P**i” during a house party.

Nathan Patel, 18, from Peterborough, Cambs, met the race row contestant when she began dating one of his pals two years ago.

He said: “I heard Emily refer to me as a ‘P**i’ to a party guest and I flipped. I went over and asked her to repeat what she’d said but she just laughed in my face.”


And... "ethnics"? I couldn't believe this wasn't a quotation from Emily. Surely "ethnics" isn't an acceptable term.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:43 / 08.06.07
Which paper's that from? The Star? Some of them have no qualms about using "ethnic" as a noun.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:59 / 08.06.07
Just watching the repeat, and it strikes me what a well-structured piece of television last night's show actually was... just prior to Emily getting kicked out for racism, we get Lesley saying darkly "it is the things you cannot see which you should be afraid of". Like on Robin of Sherwood when Michael Praed gets told he has to face "the greatest enemy" just before he gets pincushioned by the Sheriff's men.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:54 / 08.06.07
Ooh, Greek guy seems okay. Mick Hucknall In A Hat seems like something of a cock, to be honest.





HAY GUISE??? WHERE THE FUCK IS EVERYONE???
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
21:05 / 08.06.07
Let's do the thing.

Jerry: Marcus Tandy from Eldorado on his way to a come-as-one-of-My-Chemical-Romance party with the voice of Forbes Masson if he was from Athens and the brain of Gideon Soames from The Fast Show.

Seany: Jason Byrne joins Goldie Lookin' Chain and spends 18 hours a day on Popjustice.

There was a callback to Mel from BB1 with Ziggy's reaction to another penis-bearer entering the house. "I'm the pretty one!"
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:34 / 08.06.07
Anyone just joining the thread: I'm not wearing makeup, I usually wear makeup but I'm not allowed to wear it because of punishment
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
21:41 / 08.06.07
Hahaha, it has to be said that if that is indeed what Shabnam said, even within the distorty wonderpod of BB where polite introductions and priorities are naught but throwbacks to a less sexy age, to make those your opening words to a new acquaintance seems a little odd.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:16 / 08.06.07
TAKE THE HAT OFF. IT MAKES YOU LOOK MORE OF A WANKER THAN YOU ALREADY ARE, WHICH IS A MASSIVE WANKER.

In other news, I think I may be in love with Nicky. This is clearly a mistake on my part.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
22:19 / 08.06.07
I don't know... if I was worried about my skin (people tell me she has "bad" skin, which is why she never takes her slap off) and was joined by two new housemates who weren't seeing me the way I wanted, I might make that kind of disclaimer. Not as word one, admittedly.
 
 
The Falcon
22:46 / 08.06.07
In other news, I think I may be in love with Nicky.

She is quite clearly so best, so far. Although I don't really like when they get all niggly about a few mls of alcohol, as happened last year, and thought Aberdeen midfielder Chris Clark handled the situation quite well. Though possibly with lies.

But, yes, although I'm taking an early shine to Gerry - Nicky: inc. diatribes about men's relationship with balls - more plz, amusing; ftw.
 
 
Olulabelle
10:28 / 09.06.07
According to his little bio on the Big Brother site Gerry apparently "dislikes uneducated, common people" .

Which is nice.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:21 / 09.06.07
And Lesley's walked out! This is terrible.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
20:48 / 09.06.07
According to his little bio on the Big Brother site Gerry apparently "dislikes uneducated, common people" .

I'd be surprised if he really means that though - he seems genial enough. I'm also a bit sceptical about his declared interest in exploringly his (bi)sexuality.

While it was perhaps a shame to see Lesley 'the Brain' Brain go, her pretty much unmixed delight when she was given the (obviously arduous) task of making the whole house sit down and listen to an older, wiser person while she read out the news about Emily's eviction was fairly unpleasant to watch. Lesley did have something promisingly, creepliy 'Les Diaboliques' about her, but I'm not sure if I'm sorry to see the back of her, all the same.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:00 / 09.06.07
Seany's presumably for the boot now too, after telling Charley that the crowd was screaming 'Get Charley out!' as he entered the house, thus reducing her to tears over a ciggie in the garden, in a clear breach of the rules.

(This off Digital Spy, although it doesn't seem to be up there any more. I don't think I was hallucinating ... Perhaps the Jacko-obsessed, hat-wearing, Hucknall-alike charity mugger is going to get a free pass about this?)
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:43 / 09.06.07
I LOVED Lesley's leaving, though...

Seany (what's with the "y"? Is he TWELVE???) going "oh, is this about last night?" (About the "pulling her covers off at four in the morning" incident. Again, IS HE TWELVE??? Cos you'd think, if he is, he'd have grown out of that kind of shit YEARS ago).

Lesley says no, she was already wanting to leave. Seany looks all relieved. Lesley then, with perfect timing delivers the master stroke- "last night was just the confirmation that I was right about wanting to leave". (paraphrasing)

Seany says he's sorry. Lesley's all like "No, you're not sorry. That's the problem with you people. You think you can do whataver you want and say sorry and that'll make it all okay". (again, paraphrasing)

I'm gonna miss Lesley. She was like Dirk Benedict in so many ways. OK, so she used her powers for evil, but I imagine the temptation to do so must be overwhelming at times.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:20 / 10.06.07
Interesting that Ziggy seems to be referring to Gerry is 'it' at the moment, and trying to staying away from him. Could this be because Gerry, through no fault of his own, reminds Ziggy of a certain pop impressario Ziggy's had fairly traumatic dealings with in the past, back in his boy band days?

I mean I could see the resemblance, if that's what the issue is.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
10:04 / 11.06.07
Erm, again this might be pointless rumour, and we've moved on, but still:

An ex-pupil of Emily Parr's Bristol school has told The Sun that the ejected housemate showed a lack of respect at Auschwitz.

The pupils had visited the Nazi concentration camp on a school trip and had been told to be quiet and respectful but Emily, she claimed, wanted to have a snowball fight with a lad she had just met.

She said: "All Emily wanted to do was have a snowball fight with some guy she’d just met. She has no respect for anyone — she couldn’t give two hoots. All she cares about is herself.”

The former schoolmate, who asked to be identified only as Katie, also insisted that Emily's racist remark was nothing new.

She told the newspaper that Emily often said things like "p**i and sooty" and described a situation in school when Emily pushed in front of a black girl in the dinner queue saying "Whites first".

The girl said she was speaking out because she was outraged by Emily's racist language on Big Brother.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
10:15 / 11.06.07
...and it does amuse me, somehow, that she shared a home town with a certain (white) dreadlocked idiot, and also frequent N-word user, who used to live in my house. Perhaps we could torch Bristol.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
10:19 / 11.06.07
Not the guy who liked Steve Vai!

I used to live in Bristol. If we confined the aerial bombing campaign to Clifton and Hotwells, we could probably justify it in the Hague later on.
 
 
Triplets
23:04 / 11.06.07
Oh Legs, not another bad housemate... I'm starting to think a few months in the Big Brother house would be... well... you'd feel like you were in brilliant company.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
00:57 / 12.06.07
Guys, can we maybe focus on the issues?

Is no one interested in all the dreadful things that are happening in the house at the moment?

Do we all feel so afraid to comment in the absence of Dr G?

Surely not ... What about Charley and Shab's alleged love-in? And Nicky's barely-veiled anger? What's Ziggy making of all this? What does Carole think? Why hasn't somebody, anybody, lamped Seany yet?

All of these issues may or may not be answered, but isn't there a danger that Barbelih may cease to be the absolute go-to place for commentary on 'Big Brother'?

Or is everyone so ... jaded? So weary?
 
 
Happy Dave Has Left
09:30 / 12.06.07
Have I missed something? How come Ganesh ain't here?
 
 
Spaniel
10:37 / 12.06.07
He quit the board, innit.
 
  

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