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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Doctor Who Season 3 UK (No Spoilers)

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18:18 / 30.06.07

Fun, though.

Can I put my hand up for the triple-confused "What?" at the end? Just the inflection, really.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

18:18 / 30.06.07

I might finally have to write that essay I've put off for ages about the concept of 'forgiveness' in Doctor Who. I'm disturbed that a number of mass murderers have been forgiven by either the Doctor or his companions for their crimes. IRL I'm a liberal, anti-death penalty, let people make amends kind of person, when it comes to Who I seem to be a lot more right-wing...

18:20 / 30.06.07

Christian Icopnography . Naah more then chritianity in this world . Gnostic (believe in ones own divinte

) Koptic , Hindu , sheesh ton's (How could he be a Jesus figure if he wanted to be annonymous hmm

)

But hell yeah they missed a trick in killing the master for good.
He really is far to egotistical to kill himself (the lady was propably a back up (egosentic genius not making an escape route of his own choosing not likley !!)

The idea of a Gun in the right place at the right time does far more damage then a Gun. Stealing from Grant Morrison , then in the Blood family Neil Gaiman !!! Sheesh (KIDDING

)

18:26 / 30.06.07

Come on - the necessity of the judas figure, the importance of the disciples preaching the gospel?

Our Lady Has Left the Building

18:26 / 30.06.07

Oh, and because I don't know how long the change to my previous post is going to take to clear, the solution doesn't make any sense. The Paradox Machine allows the Toclafane to invade Earth. Jack destroys the Paradox Machine, they go back in time, but in doing so that should have FIXED the Paradox Machine because the only way that would have been immune to the effects of time going backwards would be... if it was a working Paradox Machine. So naughty Russell ignored his own logic there...

Our Lady Has Left the Building

18:30 / 30.06.07

And the Drumming... just Crazy Old Master imagining drums then, not otherwise important in any way...

18:32 / 30.06.07

OR its a paradox and dosnt follow any rules save those who greated it

Drumming i reckown in his own head (or a later plot tool

)
Judas figure ?? Where ???

18:34 / 30.06.07

The woman scientist who betrayed martha

18:46 / 30.06.07

That was a vast improvement on last week's. Can't be bothered saying anything more.

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

19:10 / 30.06.07

Not sure what to make of that. It was quite enjoyable, but maybe just a little bit of a let down after the last few.

The Master is clearly not dead-dead-perma-dead - I don't have much evidence in the show for that, but he's the sort of character who you can only permanently kill by cancelling the show, so at most he's as dead as say Captain America right now.

As Lady says it really doesn't make any sense for him to not set of the Black Hole bombs because he doesn't want to die, and then to y'know choose to die 2 minutes later. My bet is that Mrs Saxon was even more brainwashed than we were lead to believe and that the whole thing was some sort of pre-planned emergency escape. But still I guess we're back on Master watch again for another few years.....

19:44 / 30.06.07

"The woman scientist who betrayed martha"

Nope not the same thing (ill not say as this is a no spolier)

20:06 / 30.06.07

As the episode was on about 3 hours ago I think we can consider it well and truly spoiled.

20:27 / 30.06.07

As Lady says it really doesn't make any sense for him to not set of the Black Hole bombbs because he doesn't want to die, and then to y'know choose to die 2 minutes later.

It makes total sense. He never wanted to die and never had any intention of doing so - he's just torturing the Doctor. hence the laugh when the ring's picked up.

20:29 / 30.06.07

And even if that wasn't the case, setting the bombs off woould have been actively bringing his own death about, regenerating *after somebody else has killed him* is a different thing.

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

20:35 / 30.06.07

Well yes, if he's not dead and didn't intend to die it makes perfectly good sense obviously. It's just I get the impression it's supposed to be quite ambiguous at this point - it's only the interpretation that says he is actually deliberately dead, which I kinda thought was supposed to left open as a legitimate interpretation of events that's rendered nonsensical in my opinion.

uncle retrospective

21:03 / 30.06.07

The pick up of the ring, the Master is coming back as a woman. He's not going to miss a gender swap after all.

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

21:04 / 30.06.07

Oh and on a totally different note I dissapointed, perhaps unreasonably so that Jack didn't snog the Doctor. It wasn't just that I wanted to see it happen for it's own sake, but also it would have been especially nice to see given the frequency with which this Doctor snogs and/or becomes romantically involved with women.

22:24 / 30.06.07

it's only the interpretation that says he is actually deliberately dead

"I win".

Whisky Priestess

23:15 / 30.06.07

he's as dead as say Captain America right now.

So ... quite dead then? (Sorry, couldn't help myself. I suppose it's a lot of fun to kill people off so unequivocally that the next writer has a hell of a job bringing them back to life.)

My bet is that Mrs Saxon was even more brainwashed than we were lead to believe and that the whole thing was some sort of pre-planned emergency escape.

Absolutely - and rather cool, plot-wise. Anyone else pick up on the fact that Saxon/Master appeared to have been beating up his wife? Not sure whether that makes it worse or better that she shot him/pretended to shoot him, but certainly an interesting aspect to the relationship between the Master and his Companion.

23:48 / 30.06.07

Anyone else pick up on the fact that Saxon/Master appeared to have been beating up his wife?

I do wonder exactly what it is that a lot of people do when watching this show that stops them from actually seeing what's on the screen. Had a look on the TVWP forum earlier and they're all moaning about how her shooting him was out of character, based on the previous episode.

Hello? Black eye? Requests for threesomes? She was visibly squirming in every single scene that she was in this week.

00:48 / 01.07.07

The Master is obviously encoded in the Lazarus ring that gets picked up by his wife on the alien planet 100 trillion years in the future.

00:50 / 01.07.07

re: the Master's wife

I don't agree we saw foreshadowing of this last week. This is the woman who danced gleefully when the Toclafane began their massacre after all. And since when do we interpret threesomes as abusive in a series that features Captain Jack (let alone real life)?

01:10 / 01.07.07

Um.... when, like Spatula says, she has a black eye and seems to shit herself every time he comes near her.

03:03 / 01.07.07

None of that was shown last week. You know, when she seemed to worship him and gleefully danced at the decimation of humanity. Oh well.

03:30 / 01.07.07

I hate to see her go, but perhaps a TARDIS without Martha makes room for Sally Sparrow?

I guess Captain Jack eventually loses his libido after creating an entire race of Boe-kind. Or maybe we're supposed to ignore those pesky details...

03:31 / 01.07.07

Also, didn't Eccleston say he was on the Titanic when it sank way back in the first season? Wonder if we're getting a "two Doctors" special.

03:34 / 01.07.07

Dammit, I love this show, but that finale was a humongous, nonsensical letdown.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

04:04 / 01.07.07

RE: The shootist -- Well... no, there wasn't much evidence of that sort of personality change last episode. The one that took place a year ago and didn't have her flinching from the Master, sporting a black eye and averting her gaze from him or praying for the Doctor. Even crazy women have their limits, it seems.

"As Lady says it really doesn't make any sense for him to not set of the Black Hole bombs because he doesn't want to die..."

Because that scenario wouldn't cause the Doctor any suffering. Also, there was the probable regeneration thing. (Other option, of course being that one of the female Time Lords survived. I like the She-Master scenario. "Always the women, eh?")

And regarding the next episode? I was wondering about the Titanic timing thing. I tell you, as unlikely as it would be, the Two Doctors on board the Titanic would be glorious. I mean they wouldn't make a continuity gaff like that, would they???? Hello? Is this thing on?

This delivered the goods for me, personally.

04:30 / 01.07.07

If the abusive spouse thing was really the intention I think we've got some crap script editing going on. When did he start beating her? Why?

The scene with the ring makes me think the Master switched bodies with his wife somehow. But if that's the case, how does he get to the year 100 trillion without a TARDIS?

Shouldn't there still be Toclafane around at the point the Big Magic Reset Button delivers us? Weren't we just told last week that fiddling with the Paradox Engine would destroy the solar system? But instead if you shoot it you save the day?

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

07:11 / 01.07.07

None of that was shown last week. You know, when she seemed to worship him and gleefully danced at the decimation of humanity. Oh well.

Actually last week I thought there was just a hint of fear every now and then, but it was just a hint that didn't show throught the fact she obviously fancied/worshipped him a lot more than she was scared of him at that point. One would imagine that's a balance that could easily change over the course of a year in an increasingly abusive relationship.

With regards to the actual physical beating, I have to say I didn't really think about it much - it was obviously a massively physchologically abusive relationship, what with the blasting her sanity away by showing her the end of time and the ultimate pointlessness of everything. Compared to that almost any extra awful thing the Master did to the poor women seems to serve primarily to garnish the horror of the relationship.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

07:30 / 01.07.07

I quite like the idea of the Master/Companion relationship being a dark mirror of the Doctor/Companion one, I would have personally liked a bit more about who she actually was and why the Master actually decided he needed a Companion any way, she presumably knew the Master wasn't human and had been to the end of the universe with him before Saxon came to power but she was mostly just there rather than a character in her own right. While I accept that her shooting Saxon and (possibly?) being his escape pod makes some sense it reminded me of that Vertigo London comic from a few years back where the 'bad' woman is thwarted in the end by the Indian servant who lectures her sternly about not regarding him as a person, just a servant, after spending the whole series being... just a servant.

Re: The Titanic. Well, there are a number of explanations. The first one would involve going back and watching the pilot episode to see what Clive knew about the Doctor on the Titanic. From memory I think it was an old photo of Doctor Nine and a family before embarking on the ship, so possibly Doctor Nine had a seperate adventure but never actually got on board. The alternative is that, as the title of the Chrimble episode is apparently 'Voyage of the Damned', it might be a simulacrum or ghost ship or something, not the actual Titanic itself. It would have to be fairly unusual to break through the wall of the TARDIS, though it's being a Paradox Machine for a while must have hurt it and maybe weakened it's integrity or something.

And I've explained the Paradox Machine paradox to my own satisfaction. During the journey back Captain Jack just kept breaking the machine so it didn't repair itself. When they'd finished going back a year he broke it again, good and proper. I'll be emailing RTD for my no-prize now...

Our Lady Has Left the Building

07:31 / 01.07.07

Oh, and on the Master/Companion dark vibe, the Doctor and Jack snog, the Master and Jack have torture without the use of safe words.

I really hope the end of season two of Torchwood has the sound of a TARDIS again...

08:03 / 01.07.07

Just rewatching the ending - the life buoy just has Titanic rather than RMS Titanic. It is entirely possible that this is not the same ship that sank in 1912...

08:27 / 01.07.07

I really hope the end of season two of Torchwood has the sound of a TARDIS again...

I kind of hope it doesn't. I love Captain Jack and would love to have him as a recurring character, but really don't want the decaying corpse of Torchwood hanging round more than is absolutely necessary...

HAving said that I still have some insane hope that Torchwood season 2 will actually be good...

10:07 / 01.07.07

the only way that would have been immune to the effects of time going backwards would be...

The explanation given was that they were in the eye of the storm.

About the Lazarus ring, our TV changed channels by itself so I missed a minute here and there, was the Master's pyre 100 trillion years in the future? I thought it was the landscape where the shipyards were, present day, did I miss a bit where the Dr goes to the end of time to burn the Mster and then pops back? Why would he do that?
I'm loving the Mrs Master thing. She was only in the plot to betray him at the end, which was obvious from her first appearance onward (e.g. the foreshadowing with the journalist last time where she was tempted to turn but didn't) which made me wonder why she got so much screen time, then I thought she might turn up in future episodes which would mean she's an escape plan. His ring has been flashed about enough to make it a backup-file or something and it certainly explains his willingness to die to spite Jesus, I mean, the doctor.
When he was in his arms I really, really, really wanted him to say 'Well fancy that- after all, I am MADE OF WIN!' and the doc to cry a bit more over his evil ex-bf.

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