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Bleach

 
  

Page: 1(2)34567... 25

 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
19:18 / 05.10.06
Trying not to READ this thread, but I'm currently attempting to pull down episodes 1-90 of this to see what's the dilly-o.
 
 
Seth
22:39 / 16.10.06
How's that download doing Matt?

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Spoilers
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So Kariya was just being a bastard after all, and despite the similarities between the lower Soul Society caste and the Bound's history he really only cares about his own. Or seems to... maybe even the other Bound are his pawns.

I have to admit, this is slightly disappointing for me. It also lets the Shinigami off the squirming moral hook of having to deal with the uprising, as Kariya's already done that. Even if he were playing them he could have played it out a while longer, although he might have actually been merciful in his own way in dumping them on their asses.

As ever it has to be remembered that we're in a holding pattern right now, no matter how compelling the story might still be at times. Ishida's powers are almost certainly going to be stripped from him again by the end of the arc due to the maguffin of the unstable Quincy weapon. There will be no major character deaths or revelations.

I'm slightly surprised that they're playing up Ichigo's Hollow side so much in the opening credits, and I suspect there's a large part of that we don't know anything about yet. Who has seen this so far, though? Byakuya's seen it, the bearded Bound with the headphones and the ball bearing doll has seen it. Yoruichi and Hana (bloked from 4th Division, can't remember his name) have seen the mask. Urahara was there when Ichigo became Hollowised and may have even engineered the whole thing.

Zangetsu seems to have some kind of relationship with the Hollow persona, I can't recall their conversation but he introduced Ichigo to it in that sideways skyscraper astral plane and had a brief conversation with it relating to... I can't totally recall the conversation. I think this scene happens when Ichigo is having that amazing four episode fight with Zaraki Kenpachi. I'm not wholly sure, but I think this conversation may have made some kind of reference to the Hollow persona having some kind of root back further than Urahara's training. I guess I'll have to rewatch those episodes.

I'm surprised they're playing it up because a) this is a holding narrative, and we can't have movement on this plot thread, and b) again, because this is a holding narrative we can't have too many characters witnessing Ichigo going Mr Hyde. Otherwise they might start to put two and two together with Aizen's objective... so I'm betting that only the Bounds will see Ichigo allowing his Hollow persona to take over, and that they won't be around after this story arc (they'll either be dead or in a similar narrative limbo to Aizen, Gin and Tousen).

Interesting that Byakuya has seen that side of Ichigo and chosen to do nothing with the knowledge. Also interesting that in the scene in which Ichigo shows some kind of resolve to use those powers he alludes to it in conversation with Urahara without mentioning specifics, but you're still left with the impression that Urahara knows or suspects. I think it's part of Urahara's plan.
 
 
Seth
23:03 / 16.10.06
While I'm speculating wildly, aren't there a few promotions due? I'm not expecting this to be addressed until the next arc starts, but Aizen, Tousen, Gin and Kaien (who looks quite a lot like Ichigo) have all left vacancies. The only candidates we know of who have attained bankai are Renji and Ichigo, the lieutenant position is anyone's guess. Renji and/or any other lieutenant shifts position then that will leave their role vacant. I can forsee some changes in the ranks.
 
 
slagar
15:09 / 17.10.06
"I'm not wholly sure, but I think this conversation may have made some kind of reference to the Hollow persona having some kind of root back further than Urahara's training"

when Ichigo was training there was a point at which he became a Hollow. he had a ceratin amount of time to fight the Hollow or be consumed by it. if i remember correctly, he exceeded that time limit but still managed to defeat the Hollow, it was at this point a Hollow became rooted in him.
 
 
Seth
21:13 / 17.10.06
Spoilers
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Here's the scene I was looking for.

Yeah, I misremembered the dialogue. I seemed to remember the Hollow persona saying something to the effect that Ichigo was just borrowing power that rightfully belonged to him, but I was wrong. The actual dialogue runs:

Hollow Ichigo: Was that good enough?

Zangetsu: Yes, sorry to have taken up your time like that.

Hollow Ichigo: Don't worry about it. Even if he's someone like that, he is the king of this world. It will be troublesome if he doesn't win. Now, we're done, right? Let me go back already.

Zangetsu: Very well.

Hollow Ichigo: He's strong, Zangetsu. Train him well, since he will be a part of my strength one day.


I think my misreading came from the phrase king of this world, I initially mistook it for Hollow Ichigo referring to a real world birthright that belonged to Ichigo that Ichigo didn't know that he had, leading me to suspect that this other persona was tied deeper to Ichigo that the Urahara training incident. But that's not what he's referring to, he's talking about the sideways skyscraper astral plane. Of course Ichigo is the king of his own inner world.

Still, lots of interesting stuff here. When Hollow Ichigo disappears he turns to black mist and becomes part of Zangetsu's cloak, evidently the place Zangetsu called him forth from because he says, "Let me go back already." Zangetsu clearly has no problems with making deals with this being. For the time being they want the same thing: for Ichigo to survive the fight and become strong. Hollow Ichigo also knows more about being a Death God and has a better relationship with Zangetsu than Ichigo has (at least, at this point in the story). It makes me wonder what happened when Ichigo actually reached bankai... we saw him striving to attain it, the scene cuts and when we next see him he's already cracked it. We never see the moment of him cracking it.
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End spoilers.
 
 
Seth
18:45 / 19.10.06
Finally into triple figures with the episodes...

That was excellent. Nice to see Soi Fong showing what she's capable of and handing someone's ass to them instead of being defined solely by her relationship to Yoruichi. Also good to see Renji using magic for a change rather than brute force like he usually does.

So Mabashi's down and there's four to go. Next week we have the unusual pleasure of actually rooting for that vile little fucker Mayuri for a change.
 
 
Red Concrete
13:56 / 08.11.06
I started reading the Manga, and am now up to date with that, so I probably have to recuse myself from this thread...

I will keep watching, though - since the current Bounto stuff isn't in the Manga.
 
 
Seth
08:42 / 11.11.06
I don't think there's a lot of the Bound arc left. They're dropping like flies now, there's only three of them left and Kariya has given them a day's grace before he destroys Soul Society. Plus the opening theme contains a lot of content that doesn't seem to relate to this storyline, which is usually a sign that things are about to shift.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
17:39 / 15.11.06
Hooray. Thanks for cluing me into this series, Seth. I'd seen it advertised on Cartoon Network, but they didn't make it look particularly... good.

It's fantastic. Downloaded 1-10 last night and watched the first 9 episodes. Great characters, cool fights, generous dollops of humor, great fun in general. Eventually I'll catch up and be able to discuss, but for now my first impessions are: Hollows are icky. Inoue is adorable. I'd like to see Chad bring the pain more often. The Soul Society may not necessarily be full of nice people.

More later.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
06:59 / 18.11.06
So, after seeing episodes 28 and 29, I've decided that Ishiga is indeed the balls.

This show has gone from being a very entertaining waste of time to an addiction of ginormous proportions. I'm not sure if I can really afford this right now, but thanks for the new obsession, Seth. It's 4 in the morning and I'm wondering if I can stretch this Bleach session out until 7 and be coherent for work tomorrow. I'm thinking yes. In fact, 8 o'clock may not be out of the question. Oh, I love this show.
 
 
Seth
17:49 / 18.11.06
Really happy you're enjoying it. Be warned: there is a quality drop off after episode sixty three, when they start a stop-gap storyline to allow the comic to get sufficiently far ahead. As of episode 103 (the most recent) that stop-gap seems to be nearly finished, so it'll get a lot better again soon when they start adapting the comic again.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
00:36 / 28.11.06
Oh, shit.

Spoilers for episode 38
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I just watched the bit where Zaraki Kenpachi tells Ichigo that he wears the bells in his hair and the eyepatch to make fighting more interesting. There's no way Ichigo can beat this guy. Right? I'm guessing that Kenpachi will beat the shit out of him and leave him alive to hone his skills and provide a larger challenge farther down the road. It has to be something like that, because it would be kind of cheap to have Ichigo pull a new power out of his ass and actually defeat the guy. He's a beast. Love it.
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The only trouble I'm having is remembering the huge amount of characters properly. I can't remember which vice-captain belongs to which captain and what division they represent, for the most part, and I have no idea what most of their names are. Hasn't affected my enjoyment so far, though.
 
 
Seth
13:01 / 28.11.06
Dude. Episode 39 is one of the best of the lot. Lots of interesting stuff.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
18:21 / 28.11.06
Oh, yes. Like...

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How Zaraki Kenpachi got to be such an enormous badass despite neglecting his Zanpaktoh completely. Very cool. I'm curious to see if he and his Zanpaktoh will ever "make up."

Still a bit disappointed that Ichigo was even able to battle him to a draw, though. They built that guy up as the toughest Captain EVAH! for, like 15 episodes and threw him away almost immediately. Two episodes later, Byukuya is apparently the baddest Captain, sorry, we were just kidding about Kenpachi. That sort of left a bad taste in my mouth, especially because Byukuya is about as interesting as mud, and completely interchangeable with any number of ong-haired, effeminate anime bad guys. Minor complaint in the grand scheme of things, though, and they could right all wrongs in the next episode, for all I know. This show has great plotting.

I'm at episode 47 now, and Bleach Portal has gone from the fantastically dubbed Anime Keep episodes to the absolutely shit Lunar Anime episodes. I can't find any redeeming characteristics of their dub at all. Anime Keep displayed the fonts in different colors to avoid confusion when characters talk over each other. They would also dub things in the background, like signs, the numbers on the Captain's robes, etc. and put a little glossary entry on the top of the screen for confusing Japanese words. Totally awesome. Lunar does none of these things that I can tell. Lunar also changed a great deal of the terminology, IMHO for the worse. I prefer "Soul Reaver" to "Death god," "division" to "squad" and "zanpaktoh" to "soul slayer." And, the worst offense is that half the characters talk in some sort of "casual" dialect- using words like "ain't," "wanna, "gonna" and so on and so forth. Sort of like a child's idea of how a cool, streetwise dude who rocks the house would talk. Circa 1995.

Is this going to get any better or do I just have to suck it up? It's not really that bad, it just sucks in comparison to the old dubbing.
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Also, when you say "drop-off in quality," how much of a drop-off do you mean? Should I bother? 40+ episodes of filler might get real old, real fast.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
18:52 / 28.11.06
And what's up with the "Happy People" song that starts closing out the show around episode 40? Could anything be more jarring to the intense storyline I'm watching right now?

Bizarre.
 
 
Seth
00:08 / 29.11.06
I watched the Lunar Anime translations from the beginning so I'm well used to their style. I've noticed a couple of changes in translation since but I just use them now to enrich my understanding of what's going on. It doesn't bother me too much now.

Zaraki Kenpachi is a completely different kettle of fish to Byakuya. I honestly don't know who would win in that theoretical confrontation. Byakuya represents a peak of finely honed technique, whereas Kenpachi is more like Clint Eastwood at the end of Unforgiven. You can expect Byakuya to play according to some set of rules or ethics but you'll get no such favours from the captain of 11 Division.

Ichigo had the advantage in his fight with Kenpachi because he was willing to embrace relationship and technique. He didn't fight alone. In many ways it was Kenpachi's disdain for the mores of Soul Society and what it means to fight with one's Zanpakuto that were his undoing, but he's not the type to make the same mistake twice. You'll see how he fares against others in the captain class later on.

Basically he's the baddest of the bad and his reputation as unkillable is intact. There's something more to him than the other Death Gods, though: he has an uncanny ability to size up his enemy and win the psychological battle at the first hurdle. You see this in spades when he fights Ichinose Maki, in that Maki's response to the choice that Kenpachi gives him before swords are even drawn determines the outcome of the fight (only mild spoilers, and it's for the Bound arc which you're thinking of skipping anyway). If you're the slightest bit conflicted you won't stand a chance against him.

Remember as well: Ichigo's victories (so far) have been pyrrhic victories of a sort. There's something very wrong with him that is now being overtly stated in the text rather than merely hinted at. He's had an indefinable power from the first episode, he has a basass ally in Zangetsu and he draws strength from his mates, so he's always had an edge, but there's something else that's feeding him power that he'll have to confront sooner or later.

Happy People makes me laugh. I'm very used to the jarring stylistic shifts in anime so I lap up that kind of thing. Once you've seen the science lessons and talent show skits in the context of Gunbuster there's not much that will sit uncomfortably.
 
 
Seth
00:13 / 29.11.06
Regarding the Bound arc... at the moment I'm betting that this will be entirely skippable. It seems to be nearly finished now anyway. However, I'm withholding judgement until it's altogether done.

There are some great episodes in amongst the rough ones. The major fights featuring Rukia, Orihime and Kenpachi are all totally awesome. Basically it becomes pretty ropey between episodes sixty four and seventy sevenish, gets better from there but never matches the first major storyline. I'll report back when the Bound arc has finished and they start adapting the comics again, which I predict will be as good as or better than the Soul Society arc.

I already know about one major revelation from the comics that should reach the adaptation pretty soonish, which makes a whole ton of sense and in retrospect is obvious from the start. So I'm convinced that it'll start kicking all kinds of ass again.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
03:04 / 29.11.06
Spoilers through episode 62
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I just finished the Soul Society arc, and it was fantastic.

You'll see how he fares against others in the captain class later on.

Quite well, as it turns out. Beating Tousen by letting him slash him was as hard as it gets. One of the best battle moments in the series so far.

There's something very wrong with him that is now being overtly stated in the text rather than merely hinted at. He's had an indefinable power from the first episode, he has a basass ally in Zangetsu and he draws strength from his mates, so he's always had an edge, but there's something else that's feeding him power that he'll have to confront sooner or later.

He is the half-hollow/half-Soul Reaper that Aizen wants to be, right? Uruhara, shady guy that he is, hid the Crumbling Treasure inside of Kuchiki Rukia, but when Ichigo stole her Soul Reaper powers, he got that as well. If that hypothesis is correct, what then did Aizen steal from Rukia's soul? He said something about how small it was-does that mean he got the Crumbling Treasure, but it's power had already been sapped by Ichigo?

He's been saved from doom by his hollow side twice that I can remember (against Renji and against Kenpachi) and it came out overtly in his battle with Byukuya. It was also presumably present as the white Ichigo that he battled in his inner world to gain Zangetsu's aid. is any of this stuff addressed in the Bound arc (I'm going to watch it-I can't help myself)?

Lots of food for thought packed into the last five or six episodes. Also lots of unanswered questions about the supporting cast left hanging at the end of this arc. Has Ishiga really lost his Quincy powers for good? Is Uruhara a villain? What's going to happen with the evil scientist, Mayuri? What is Ukitake's illness? How did Hitsugaya get to be such a badass little dude? Will we see more of Shunsui and his sweet pink coat?

The whole arc was so meticulously plotted and paced. Huge battles were complemented by characterisation and humor in the perfect doses, and I loved the flashbacks that almost every character got. There were even some filler episodes that gave you a breather. None of that toward the end, though. After watching 48-62 tonight in one crazed marathon, I feel like my eyes have neon Bankai flashes imprinted on them. What an incredibly intense finale. I need more.
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Regarding the Lunar translations, I only had to deal with it for eight episodes, as Bleach Portal switches to Dattebayo, who do a nice job, if not as nice as Anime Keep. I would recommend checking their version out.
 
 
Seth
07:29 / 29.11.06
Don't expect any answers to any of that in the Bound arc. It's a story with no real progression for any character, with everything set up to reset back to where the first major arc left off. It's frustratingly slight and patchily written, with some downright awful stuff. Personally I think it's worth it for a few of the better episodes later on, but then I'm a hopeless addict.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
12:37 / 29.11.06
That's sort of what I figured, but I'm hopelessly addicted as well. As long as I get to see my favorite characters in some cool fights now and then, I'll be okay.
 
 
Seth
21:04 / 03.12.06
On the plus side it looks like it's nearly finished and should resume adapting the comics again in probably about a month to a month and a half. Looks like you picked the right time to not feel like you're wading through treacle too much.
 
 
Seth
22:20 / 03.12.06
Lots of good stuff in 105. Some lovely direction, nice to see the characters regrouping and taking stock, and about time that Ishida actually referred to the fact that he's responsible for a lot of what's happening. Good stuff with Ran'Tao too.
 
 
ORA ORA ORA ORAAAA!!
11:10 / 04.12.06
I've watched up to (so far) episode 42 in the last 2-1/2 days. Angry Japanese men are yelling in my head all the time I'm not watching this, at the moment, which is disconcerting.

it's also making me stay up waaay too late after work, when I need to work tomorrow as well. Just one more...
 
 
Red Concrete
21:42 / 07.12.06
I can't resist commenting on a few things. First, at this rate I could see the Bounto arc going on another couple of months...

Plus the opening theme contains a lot of content that doesn't seem to relate to this storyline, which is usually a sign that things are about to shift.
QFE. Bleach movie, anyone?

I already know about one major revelation from the comics that should reach the adaptation pretty soonish, which makes a whole ton of sense and in retrospect is obvious from the start.
I'm not sure if saying this will upset anyone, so for those of you not reading the manga...
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I don't have a clue what revelation you mean... Can you PM me, if you read this?
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Seth
22:36 / 07.12.06
Episode 106 was bookended front to back with content from the movie, which looks awesome. Opening Five looks very different in content by comparison, like it's something else entirely. Not to do with the Bound, not to do with the movie.

The standard montage of images in the usual opening credits is set, for the most part, back in the world of the living. There is only one image of Kariya Jin in the whole sequence. It reminds me of Opening Three, which was split in half between references to the end of the Soul Society Arc and scenes from the real world, and so bridged the gap between the Soul Society arc and the Bound arc.

Now I have to say that I haven't read the comic, and so I don't know whether the massive dark and seemingly clawed shape that's moving through the streets is anything to do with the storyline that starts immediately after the Soul Society arc. So it could be referring to an unexpected twist back to the real world in the Bound arc, or to another story they'll tell before adapting the comic again.

That's roughly what I'm basing this on. Well, that and the fact that Kariya has set a deadline of a day before he destroys Soul Society (there's only half a day left now), and given that we know that can't happen there can't be long left. Ishida's now lost his Quincy weapon and so he's been reset to how he was before, most of the antagonists have been killed off and the characters have regrouped for what is probably the final confrontation(s). Everything's pointing to a climax, the only question is how long that climax will last.
 
 
Seth
09:48 / 13.12.06
More on what seems to be the imminent end of the Bound. Bleach7 has news on the titles of the remaining Bleach episodes for 2006, plus what are apparently two ninety minute specials, whatever that means. I hope it doesn't mean clip shows.

000. BLEACH Capture Navigation!!
BLEACH Kouryaku Nabi!! 「BLEACH攻略ナビ!!」

000. BLEACH The Night Before the Decisive Battle Part 1
BLEACH Kessen Zenya Zenpen 「BLEACH決戦前夜 前編」

107. The Swung-Down Blade! The Moment of Destruction
Furiorosareta Yaiba! Hametsu no Shunkan 「振り下ろされた刃!破滅の瞬間」

108. The Wailing Bount! The Final Clash
Doukoku no Baunto! Saigo no Gekitotsu 「慟哭のバウント!最後の激突」

000. BLEACH The Night Before the Decisive Battle Part 2
BLEACH Kessen Zenya Kouhen 「BLEACH決戦前夜 後編」

109. Ichigo and Rukia, Thoughts Revolving Around Heaven
Ichigo to Rukia, Kaitensuru Omoi 「一護とルキア、廻天する想い」
 
 
Seth
09:48 / 13.12.06
It seems there's a lot of questioning going on as the arc draws to a close.
 
 
Seth
12:46 / 14.12.06
The specials haven't materialised for download, so I guess they can't have been much more than clips shows. We'll see if they ever turn up online.

Not sure whether to keep the spoiler spaces, so I'll err on the side of caution...
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107 is pretty fucking awesome. The opening hyper-kinetic animation as the fight commences between Ichigo and Kariya was awesome, especially that fantastic pull back shot through the hole in the building. Really great direction, something the Bound arc has often been lacking.

Lots of great moments:

Kariya's comment on top of the execution grounds as he asks Ichigo, "Do you know what this place is?" and Ichigo's hard won, no bravado response: "I know better than you do."

Ishida's logic taking over. He knows when he's out of the fight.

Ichinose Maki's unexpected return and redemption. It seems having his ass handed to him at the hands of Zaraki Kenpachi taught him a thing or two. Despite being a stop gap character and probably for the scrap heap I really like this poor, conflicted guy. Plus his Zanpaku-to is pretty damned cool, and I like the Guitar Wolf in Shinigami robes and hoodie look, he's a lovely piece of character design. I hope he survives the arc and turns up in future. He deserves to live. But right now his chances don't look good.

The return of Rukia was also long overdue. I have no idea what she has planned, as besides her skill at kidou she's horribly underpowered for this fight. But her craftiness may make up for that. Is she just lending the moral support?

As soon as I saw the shot of her leaving Byakuya's I knew that she'd run into Renji that second, and sure enough there he was. That shot from the movie in the opening credits of Ichigo flying into battle alongside Baboon King Zabimaru has me more excited about the movie than nearly anything else. Well, apart from the montage of shots of the Captains charging side by side into battle.

Koga has to turn up again before the end. It's a given.


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End spoilies.
 
 
Seth
16:09 / 18.12.06
The rumoured title that has been going round for episode 110 has been suggesting to many Bleach fans that the fillers are soon to end:

110: Reopening of the Substitute Business! The Terrifying Transfer Student

Sadly I don't know enough to verify this, having refused to read the comic in case it spoils me for the show. Can anyone confirm without spoiling?

What with the ending of the Bound story, which has been steadily improving, specials that have yet to materialise, the movie and the return to anime adaptations this is a very good time to be a Bleach fan.

Funny how 2006 has been bookended with the execution grounds.
 
 
Seth
16:42 / 18.12.06
Hmmm. Looking at the maths (episodes 1-63 took up until issue 180 somthing of the manga) then we may have to put up with more stop-gap stuff. Perhaps it'll be another filler arc.
 
 
Dutch
17:36 / 18.12.06
I fast forwared through the thread to avoid any spoilers, but I watched a few episodes (the first 6) at a friend's house about a week ago. It appeared to me as a very nice mixture of the weird, the funny, the mystic and the violent. I just love how the former death God turned "somewhat normal" teenaged girl makes horrible drawings of the way death gods operate and what soul society is. The characters are interesting and it seemed to me there was a lot of potential in this series.

I have a feeling my studying is going down the drain now I have the links from page one, thanks people.
 
 
slagar
19:41 / 18.12.06
110: Reopening of the Substitute Business! The Terrifying Transfer Student

Sadly I don't know enough to verify this, having refused to read the comic in case it spoils me for the show. Can anyone confirm without spoiling?


it's been awhile since i've read them but that title does sound like something that could be interpreted as starting the manga arc again.
 
 
Seth
01:04 / 21.12.06
Gaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Why don't I speak Japanese?

Don't answer that.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
01:14 / 21.12.06
If the real deal has started up again, I may just skip the Bound arc. I watched about seven or eight episodes of it, and it just didn't grab me like the Soul Society arc did. Plus, it'll be fun discussing this show here, as it happens.
 
 
Seth
18:48 / 21.12.06
Hmmm. Now that was something I wasn't expecting. A thoroughly ambiguous ending. I don't know whether next week will explain it or whether it will be left unaccounted. Perhaps Kariya has Done An Aizen.

Great action, though. The first shot of the episode makes it all worth it alone. And Rukia's speech to Inoue, Ishida, Chad and Renji about how Ichigo and Kariya held much in common was a fantastic piece of writing, filled with a rich subtext about exactly how much she loves the orange-haired stubborn little bastard.

Funny how Byakuya didn't strike. Amazing moment when he operates his bankai, though. Nicely done.
 
  

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