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Salvia

  
  

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cusm
20:31 / 03.04.02
"The question, he said, is deeper than the right to free speech - it is the right to control your own consciousness."

Interesting issues being raised by this one. And important ones, at that. Salvia is going to force some real examination of the connection between alterations of consciousness and issues like religious freedom.
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:37 / 03.04.02
Yeah... what bugged me was the constant references to it as "a drug" granted there were coments of it as an Herb or a Plant . . . though mostly as quoted.

Still, ON with the interesting debate!!!
 
 
Voidmind
16:50 / 04.04.02
While I would love to see Salvia force some thought into current SEA policies, I doubt that's going to happen.. honestly

Personally I see them just stomping on it like every other drug that has come before..

Regardless of religious views or actual useful effects..
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
20:23 / 09.04.02
Well, last night I had my first date with Salvia.

I had in my posession some Salvia 6x extract which after some calming excercises and preparation, I began to smoke a wee bit of. I started off with 1/10th of the extract smoked in a nice little wooden pipe. I was in my living room which was in retrospect a bit too bright even though it was all candlelight.

I quickly experienced a sense of... calm anticipation... while it wasn't "altered perception" in the "Hi, I just smoked a lot of weed or dropped some Acid" sort of way, it almost seemed like I'd been kicked to the very outside edge of a Gnosis state. It was all pretty calm and unimpressive however. The strangest thing was a brief tug on what I perceived as my astral body. Once sharply and a couple of other times less as strongly.

I tried a slightly higher ammount around a half-hour later with similar effects. While I found it very easy to meditate in souch a state, it was really nothing to write home about.

I meditated some more and still couldn't shake that feeling that there WAS something there and waiting. I then tried 1/4th of a gram and immeadeately felt a kick but I was still frimly grounded. It was sort of like pot but without the feeling of stupidity that generally accompanies pot. Meditation (which came rediculously easy at this point) brought on flickering images of smoke behind my eyelids. but other than that, nothing.

I know that i'm doing something wrong here... I think that subconcsiously I'm not approaching this communion with the plant seriously enough. Or perhaps I'm taking it too seriously.

One side effect came on a few hours later when I went to bed. I was immeadeatly beset by VIVID dreams. They were all random and stupid things but with the intensity of a fever dream.

So, I'm pondering taking her on another test drive tonight. Any suggestions? I shudder to think that mabye I'm just one of those people who can't 'pop' with it. I know it takes me 2+hits of Acid to 'pop'.
 
 
cusm
20:30 / 09.04.02
Kevin, that's nearly the same experience I and my cohorts had trying the 6x as well. I'm thinking I might try a 10x mix next time. I don't think we were getting enough of it at once to trigger the full effects. We were rather conservative with the dosing.
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:12 / 09.04.02
My best "advise" to offer is patience... Think of it as a sort of courtship. In all my experiences Salvia has made it clear that she's working on her own time table, & that it's different for each person she encounters... A bit of whimsy helps, she's playful & tricky.

The meditative aspect is very true to form... the extracts may be "bunk"... try leaves if you can.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
21:19 / 09.04.02
Yeah, In a perfect world, I'd be using the leaves themselves in the 'quid' method. However, due to $$$ constraints I decided to go the extract route. If I do see some results in communing with her, I fully intend to get some plants and work with her the old fashioned way.

It also occurs to me that I may need a water pipe in order ot get the best effect from the extract. Sadly, they are not horribly portable.

(Sigh, if only I remembered how to make the homemade bong out of a coke can from the Jay and Silent Bob comics.)
 
 
Mr Tricks
00:51 / 10.04.02
Ever make a gravity Bong from a 2litre & a 3 litre soda bottle?
 
 
cusm
14:46 / 10.04.02
That's what I did for the leaf, and it worked well. Boy is it ever still harsh, though.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
14:59 / 10.04.02
Nope. I guess I should add at this point that I tend to avoid weed like the plague and have only used a bong once. I'd love to know how because now I find myself in need of a pipe.

On to the notes form last night's attempt:

On taking some advice from a website I took a decent ammount (1/8th) and this time tried to get as much smoke as possible and hold it for at least 30 seconds.

One Inhale... fine...

Two inhales... fine..

Three inhales... fi...woahhhhhhh....

I fell back onth the bed and stangely didn't seem to stop. There was a sensation of falling that I'm sure would have increased had I not been instantly grounded by my sitter deciding to throw a tantrum and yell at her computer.

Still... I felt this powerful disconnection from my body. I was IN my body but I wasn't actually connected to it. It was so very very heavy. Time sorta started to spin and I felt something arrive. Something. However my roomate continued to yell at the computer and try and hold a conversation with me, snapping me back every few moments.

As I felt the something start to leave, I saw waves of shadow rush across my room. It was like streaks of living shadow fleeing out of my field of vision.

After I pulled myself out to yell at my sitter I noticed a few aftereffects (partially because I was now fighting it, I'm sure) in the form of short term memory loss and a general feel of being 'stoned'.

The REALLY weird stuff happened a few hours later when I went to bed.

Once again, the dreams were horribly vivid and once again they were a mishmash gobbledygook for the most part.

However I found myself laying in bed, in that half-awake state and looking up at a hooded figure next to my bed. I immeadeatly started to panic and try and wake myself up or move, but then the thought arose "Wait, I just took the Salvia. This is the drug. I need to just lie back and wait". In my mind I had JUST taken the drug.

However, as if hearing my thoughts, the robed figure smiled with a HUGE mouth of razor sharp teeth and began to move forward. I concentrated and made to banish and while I did make him go away, allt hought of fleeing the dream was gone and I was a kid in my old house again.

In short order I 'woke up' in bed again. This time a hospital bed with all sorts fo wires and tubes in me. Standing next to the bed this time was Stefanie, my most recent ex whom I am horribly heartbroken over, still. She looked so horribly sad and was fingering a medalion I had given her for protection. she turned and walked away and...

Once again I found myself in bed. This time a beautiful blonde boy was looking over me. However it was my bed.

And finally I succeeded in waking up.

Weird.
 
 
cusm
15:25 / 10.04.02
Did you take 1/8 ounce? Was it leaf or extract? I'm curious as to the approximate dose.

Congrats on the success, by the way, even if it sounded a bit traumatic
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
16:13 / 10.04.02
1/8th of a gram of 6x extract.

And I really don't count it as a success.
I have really vivid dreams quite often.

I won't consider it a success until I hit a 4 or 5 on the S-A-L-V-I-A scale.

Last night was a 3 at best. I needs me a bong.
 
 
grant
18:36 / 10.04.02
Having a sitter who yells at a computer during the experience seems worse than having no sitter at all.
 
 
Mr Tricks
18:59 / 10.04.02
Jeeze yeah... that sitter sounded worse than the hooded toothy guy... I've certainly met similar in dreamspace...

Sounds like you're on your way... try it in a technology free environment... with a much more sensitive sitter...

Holgin it as long as you can is good.... sometime having a focal point helps, a candel, mandala, plant... something that you can rest your vision on while it blurrs out.
 
 
cusm
15:41 / 11.04.02
Interesting. One good long hit of leaf yesterday made me at once more deeply astrally disoriented from the world than an afternoon's worth of hits did before, even with extract. I got to the "things crawling around in the corners of the eye" stage with just that, and was distinctly unable to operate a motor vehicle for awhile. Had I the time, I think a couple more like that would have done the trick. Too bad I was really just testing out a pipe (a mini bong, neat invention, all the cooling of a water pipe but only 2 inches tall), and didn't have the space to really work just then. Aah well. More soon when life gives me an evening off.
 
 
Mr Tricks
18:09 / 11.04.02
Sounds promising!!!

I'm all for leaves... excited by my latest batch of babies though... quite bushy!!!
 
 
cusm
13:48 / 16.04.02
Ok, I get it now. Each time I do it, I go further and use less before I have to stop and deal with where I'm at. Half a bowl, and there is no seperation between the physical and the spiritual. Wow. Its definitely a trainer, and a tool. I had the impression from previous reports that it was more like DMT in that it took you to somewhere and inflicted visions on you. I can certainly see how if you take more than you can handle at once, this will happen. But staying within where you know, it really just opens the doors for you to go there yourself.

Getting to know her a little at a time was a really good idea. I'd much rather work with her as a shaman and map my way through hyperspace than just knock myself silly for a handful of visions. I still haven't ventured all the way out yet into deep elsewhere-land, but I can pretty clearly see how to get there. That'll wait till I have backup, maybe this weekend. I'm a little more excited about being able to communicate directly with local spirits, actually see what I'm doing when I do psychic healing techniques, and gain levels of control over meditation and trance I've only had otherwise on a head full of acid. Definitely a tool in the right hands, no doubt about that.
 
 
Mr Tricks
20:39 / 16.04.02
"okay, I get it now."

I cannot explain the joy in reading/hearing such words in context!!!

Hurrrrayyyy

What next?:

explorations of synergy...

composition of energetic dynamics in shared space...

Look for the angle/plane that "cuts/intersects" through REAL space... it may move from upper left towards lower right for you while it would cut from upper right to lower left for whomever sits accross from you!!!

Smile, laugh!!!

Grow your own plant!!!
  
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:10 / 21.04.02
That's a very good point, PATricky... what conditions would it require to grow your own Salvia? Haven't been able to find much out about this. But growing your own Salvia would be REALLY nice.
 
 
solid~liquid onwards
12:14 / 21.04.02
http://www.salvia-divinorum-scotland.co.uk

once my exams are done im getting my own plant from here...the guys in scotland though (so am i)

another one in britain (v.expeensive)http://www.ganja.co.uk/cat/salvia/
but they sell cannabis seeds too (i think its legal to have seeds in the uk, just not to germinate them)
 
 
Mr Tricks
23:55 / 23.04.02
Salvia's almost as tricky to grow as she is to experience...

Plenty of Light, warmth & water... You need lots of drainage as the roots are very sensitive to rot.

the soil should be rather high in iron content as well as nitrogen. Sandy is good...better than the clay type of soil... mix with lots of rock substance... for drainage.

Moisture is good, having other plants nearby, or a sort of moisture tent, fish-tank...

combined with regular communing, She'll pretty-much tell you what she needs & doesn't.
 
 
solid~liquid onwards
11:00 / 24.04.02
ooooooooo just had my first taste of her....everything went melty and the music came alive, it was like melty rubber chocolate
 
 
solid~liquid onwards
15:53 / 24.04.02
me last post was done as soon as i regained my ability to type, several hours ago.

I smoked it and had halucinations for (so im told) about 8 mins.

first everything (including me) melteed then dissolved, leaving a sort of landscape of ripiling vibrating rubber chocolate which was brown and red...and ppl talking in the room i was in became mountains, and i could see the ripples of sound as they spoke, same with the speakers in front of me. everything was moving, then the landscape became a single object.

it was pretty cool and the comedown was quick but i dont desperately want to do it again soon.
 
 
cusm
16:26 / 24.04.02
Sttab, just for the record and more data on dosages, how much did you smoke? Was it leaf, fortified leaf, or extract, and what concentration?
 
 
solid~liquid onwards
12:22 / 25.04.02
i smoked quite a few pipes worth, untill things started to feel really weird, i dunno how many leaves were put in a pipe each time...i'll ask him tonight. i think they were just the normal leaves.

my friend had cut apart his pipe, and stuck it in a giant plastic bottle, which had a hole cut in the side near the bottom, he sucked smoke into the bottle, untill it was so cloudy i couldnt see through it, when passed to me i took my finger of the little hole and sucked all the smoke from the bottle, i'd then hold it in as long as possible.

if i had to put a number on how many bottle worths i inhaled, it might have been 4 or 5, i cant rightly remember.
 
 
cusm
12:57 / 25.04.02
Yea, sounds about right. We were doing similar work with a 2 liter gravity bong, which was awfully messy and the smoke was still terribly harsh.

Its tricky stuff. I've made contact with visible spiritual presences after only a couple of hits sometimes, while others nothing after pipes and pipes... If she has something to tell you, you'll know pretty quick. Otherwise, you'll have to really work for it.

I am enjoying the buzz of just a hit or two, though. Its a nice N02 like kickstart for your third eye.
 
 
solid~liquid onwards
15:41 / 25.04.02
i got some off one of my friends as well, enough to make a quid...so i might see if i can use it as an aid to astral projection and go down to the woods.

after the first one i held the smoke in the bottle for a bit to allow it to cool, as i could feel it burning my lungs... i would have preffered to chew, but i didnt have the time, cos i had to be back at school later in the day...maths last peiod of the day, i sat there drawing what i saw on my neighbours jotter *who also had a fair bit of smoke, but with little effect.
 
 
Mr Tricks
19:55 / 25.04.02
it's always interesting how randomly people can be effected, One person can just hit the pipe and be a laughing & drowling mess... while the fellow next to him can do about 10 times as much and still be "looking" for an effect...

Tricky indeed...

On of my most powerful experiences happend while simply meditating on the plant... full on visual unfolding. We later smoked some and it actually reversed the effects "normalising" me...

Working with the live plants have been quite an endevor as well... Next step would be to absord effect via osmosis... just holding the leaves in hand... Hasn't really worked . . . . YET
 
 
solid~liquid onwards
08:01 / 26.04.02
taking it in by osmosis (you mean diffusion dont ya, as osmosis just refers to water)

my mum told me that in germany most people take medcine up the arse, pills and stuff, cos the lining there is meant to be really thin, but i told my mum that it wasnt really a pill the german doctor put up her arse, but she claims never to have taken it up the arse (medcine that is)

mabye try leaving some leaves to soak then shoving them up your arse, like the germans do, no bitter taste that way...it might actually work, and if not it'd be really funny

(i chewed a few leaves last night before i went to bed, but i fell asleep and just had some really vivid dreams)
 
 
Mr Tricks
18:51 / 26.04.02
Up the Arse!!!

I had some friend who were determined to do E this way... they mashed up a few pills and used a straw to blow it up each other's ass... No Joke!!!

Both of them instantly got a case of diarrea.. and spent the rest of the evening feeling pretty "shitty" (pun intended) and dumb for having wasted both the rare pure MDMA as well as the money it cost to aquire it. The rest of us who tool it the traditional way of course had a blast as well as no end to the sympathy we had for them.
We laughed our asses off about it later... it still makes me chuckle.

On Dreams:
I've had several friends who have been unable to sleep due to the vividness of dreams brought on by by simply sleeping with a live Salvia beside their bed. I would recomend trying this if you can find a live plant... It may also unveil some clues on cultivating such live plants...

Diffusion:
I stand corrected... though I have a friend who's experimented with making make tea from the leaves...
 
 
solid~liquid onwards
20:26 / 26.04.02
NO WAY!
if this was the dark ages then your friends would probably of never surrvived childhood.

one of my friends who tried salvia for the first time with me a few days ago and had little effect despite smoking twice as much as i did had another try today, still with no effect...so hes got a big bag that hes gonna smoke and chew...any advice for him
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
11:44 / 27.04.02
any suggestions on what NOT to do with this stuff?
placing my order later and i really enjoy video games, curious if anyone has tried doing interactive computer things while on this wonderfull sounding plant.
 
 
solid~liquid onwards
12:52 / 27.04.02
dont shove it up your arse :P

...mmm TFC while under the influence...could be fun...or i might just end up running round the house beating my family to death with an imaginary medipack
 
 
Mr Tricks
18:29 / 29.04.02
4 the uneffected:
With those who after alot of effort are still uneffected... it can be sort of tricky... especially if they are hanging with someone who is getting "rolled over" by the plant. Alot could have to do with mind set, the best advise is to give up on "expecting" something to happen. Having a bit to Chew then following it with a significant amount of smoke may help. Watter pipe, Gravity Bong... the idea it to thoroughly saturate the lungs & hold it in.

The right setting, Dimly lit, few distractions, nature...

Sometimes it'll take another substance to act as catylist... Alchol, 'shrooms... Pot may not work as in my experience it will stimulate the mind's desire to "find" something.
Other times it may just be a matter of context... Tricky indeed.

On videogames etc:
One time I was hanging with a friend & handed him a film container that I believed had my Bud stash. In actuality I grabbed the wrong container and came over to his house with a container filled with Salvia leaf. He dutifully packed it in his bong & I hit it while playing on his playstation... A light experience of falling into the game... kind of fun.
The thing is that one can sort of assert normal consciousness amidst a Salvia session, so in this case I really had no idea that my high was actually a very different one than what I was expecting.
There's a strong "body" experience that happens so people have tended to enjoy "yoga" "taiji" "dancing" "sex" and the like.

What NOT to DO:
Don't smoke & Drive!!! or operate heavy machinery!!! The initial surge Up of a Salvia session can be totally debilitating...one might not want to be standing, & please pass the pipe/bong as soon as your done... otherwise it may get stuck to your hand & become a mission all it's own.
Like I said, if you're say hiking & try to smoke some you may not feel anything, as you would be occupied with hikking. You might also suddenly feel the need to drop everything and laydown... very tricky. Keep sharp stuff out of hand untill you've earned your wings so to speak... & have a buddy along just in case...
 
 
Oresa delta 20
18:47 / 29.04.02
hey guys. first post here, so please try to reserve your judgement for just a little while. a few posts ago, sttab referred to a friend who smoked twice as much as him, but didn't trip, that friend being me. i think that perhaps one of the reasons i had difficulty tripping was that i was smoking the salvia in a makeshi[f]t rocket (you know the drill: bottle, plastic bag, bowl made of aluminium foil) and the plastic started melting, giving off some rather nasty vapours. anyways, i read somewhere that the best way to smoke salvia was in a water pipe, and i wanted to find out if anyone around here knows any decent sites (preferrably british, cos of the shipping costs) which sell this kind of equipment. secondly, i've recently read some of Carlos Castaneda's works, and in 'the teachings of don Juan', he labels mescalito (peyote) as a teacher. he also uses jimson weed to ask questions, and when i read some stuff by daniel siebert, he called salvia a teacher-plant. i just wondered if there was any way of accessing salvias teacher-properties without having to resort to (disturbing) mexican rituals. what i mean is, while i am interested to explore salvias world, i don't relish the prospect of sewing lizards' eyes up, and then eating them. also, pissing on dogs isn't really my style. any guidance from any of you would be greatly appreciated...............
 
  

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