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Salvia

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17:54 / 21.03.02

While its still legal, I've been looking to track some down. There are many many places on the net that sell it. Are there any in particular folks here can recommend as reputable? I know this has come up before, but the exact thread eludes me.

Thanks

18:16 / 21.03.02

OOOOOOMMMMMMM.......Calling PATricky. Come in PATricky....

I've got a couple of web sites bookmarked on my home computer I'll post but seriously, PATricky holds much knowledge about Salvia Divinorum. PM him if he doesn't respond to my summonings above.

19:42 / 21.03.02

go here: http://www.ecstasymelrose.com/ and buy the 6x, it's the best they have, smokable powder form. they have lots of other options, i've tried most of them, that's the best. it's a real store in hollywood, a nice little mom+pop shop (or in this case, father daughter) and they sell all kinds of great stuff. only $20 a box, nice package too.

the only other place you'd want to go would be directly to daniel siebert's home page: http://www.sagewisdom.org/salviashop.html . this guy is more or less single handedly responsible for the salvia "craze" and has been experimenting and writing about it for years. he has a store that sells all his own extracts and leaves, etc. this is actually probably better than the store above, i just haven't gotten around to trying it so i can't vouch for sure.

19:48 / 22.03.02

You know....

This topic seems to arise on an almost seasonal basis....

Growth cycles I guess...
In Short

Salvia is an intelligent plant.... EXTREMELY So, while there are more & more extracts becoming available in the market... My greatest recomendation is to pass on that "short-cut" & instead aquire the leaves... if not the plant itself...

Smoking it is Not like Pot... there's a sort of learning curve that you would probably experience as your consciousness begins to learn this new "language" over time with proper attention All effects can become available...

from the Wah Wha Wah of a whipit... to complete & utter intigration into 5D superspace.... Group telepathy, planet hopping & even introductions to those DMT elves...

Basment Shaman's a good source... there are plenty. Ultimately one would end up cultivating plants... I've got about 5 at different sizes & stages...

enjoy...

02:58 / 23.03.02

If anybody knows where to get the live plant in New York then please tell me.

04:15 / 23.03.02

quote:Originally posted by PATricky:

Smoking it is Not like Pot... there's a sort of learning curve that you would probably experience as your consciousness begins to learn this new "language" over time with proper attention All effects can become available...

from the Wah Wha Wah of a whipit... to complete & utter intigration into 5D superspace.... Group telepathy, planet hopping & even introductions to those DMT elves...

I was told that there was sometimes small effect at first, then more with repeated use. Seems to be happening to me.

My first time I just felt stony and suddenly decided I couldn't talk to anyone, so I had to jump up and disconnect the phone, then crash back into my chair. (The thought of just not answering it if it rang never occured to me.) And that was about it. Of course, I was sitting in a brightly lit room with the TV blaring away.

The second time I sat in a candlelit room with some of my favorite trippy music on. This time it was all about floating up out of a volcano crater to join some flock of...uh...presences, who reminded me of a mama bird and her young, the TV and stereo staring at me, and everyone in the room suddenly sounding like a distorted Monty Python sketch, babbling away in some language invented for the sole purpose of sounding comical. And then I remembered there was no one else in the room. That's when shit got weird. After a few minutes, I managed to think a sober and logical thought, I don't remember what, but maybe I just realized that no, the dark TV screen was NOT just about to say something to me...Suddenly the whole thing was over and I had to go to sleep right away. No choice in the matter. The spell just broke after a few minutes.

And you're talking about planet hopping!

That almost makes me afraid to try it again. But I've always wanted to learn another "language."

the rake at the gates

14:04 / 23.03.02

what strength did you smoke it at, i tried the pure leaf in joint form and got sfa, should i stick with this or go for the 6x strength?

14:20 / 23.03.02

speaking of 6X strength, I put some the powdery leaf stuff under my tongue and I had little enough of an effect that I did not know if it had *any* separate from a placebo one.

I wonder can you have any effect from oral ingestion of the stuff you usually smoke. remember, it looked like dark green powder.

17:41 / 23.03.02

quote:Originally posted by jimmy jazz:
what strength did you smoke it at, i tried the pure leaf in joint form and got sfa, should i stick with this or go for the 6x strength?

I just tried the plain ol' leaf. You have to hit it really hard, hold it in for as long as humanly possible, then as soon as you exhale, hit it again. Smoke a full bowl that way and things should start happening.

18:07 / 25.03.02

Generally I don't recomend going for the 5x or 6x stuff unless...

You've cultivated lots of experience with Salvia.
You have lots of experience with srong hallusinogens
You have experience with meditation & or transendence
The type of person that needs to only be pointed at a bridge

Otherwise I would recomend getting "to know" salvia gradually. Yagg.. what you said sounds cool... definately something to build off of.

if you must try the extracts... use it sparringly & have someone there to keep you from hurting yourself. Some people have been known to do some really "care-less" stuff after smoking the extract... getting up to unplug the phone could result in putting one's hands throught a TV screen.

The leaf is much more gradual is this manor & such "accidents" are less likely.

Orally ingested Salvia is generally less spectacular slower acting & wonderful for communing with the ancestors... try it in nature.

Life plants can be ordered online... overnight delivery is highly recomended as well as a sort of green thumb... There's some good info on how to raise a plant online.

[ 25-03-2002: Message edited by: PATricky ]

18:09 / 25.03.02

PS: I can't recomend a large waterpipe's effectiveness enough... definately hold more smoke in deeper & longer...

04:42 / 26.03.02

Tell me more about orally ingesting the stuff. Do you chew it or put it under your tongue, or what? I tried it once, briefly, just to see what it tasted like. "In nature," eh? Like, when I go on a long hike in the woods? You seem to know what you're talking about, so any advice you can share with a neophyte is welcome!

Here's another question: I tend to end up with a mild headache the morning after. More significantly, a sort of reluctance to do it again anytime soon. I've had two experiences, one last summer, one a few weeks ago. I plan to try again, but not just yet. Is that a normal part of the experience, or is that just Yagg being Yagg?

12:56 / 26.03.02

I started out directly with the x10 stuff. In retrospect maybe not the best of ideas.. Made me question some of the fundaments of reality, and really scared of chaos theory. There's something about the experience of being totally sober and looking at a schematic in a book, and getting a really strong feeling that the schematic is looking BACK AT YOU.

Ooh, I got elves, too, but I consisted of them. As did everything else.

Haven't done Salvia for a year, now. Maybe I should try it again, at a lower concentration...

18:25 / 26.03.02

10X??? hence the name BioDynamo?

18:30 / 26.03.02

Yagg... Some people experience a sort of hang-over after Salvia... It varies from person to person, might be an indication of something else that you may not normally be aware of... Salvia has Many medicinal qualities... either seen or experienced it working on Hangovers, Hard drug come-downs, Menstral cramps, stomach issues, digestive issues, emotional "stuff" ... I say enough that the plant is a consciousness onto itself (herself) & one is best off courting her over the course of time.

I chewed leaves, Large green freshly clipped, they liquify quite quickly leaving fiberous veins you will have to pick out of your teath. Seen people suck on a wad of dried leaf... not quite as palitable.

18:34 / 26.03.02

Some theorise that juicing the plant or leaves would be ideal... dont have the heart to bring one of my plants to the juicer.

On nature:
Outside is nice... if you are hiking you may not quite notice any effects... Better to hike to a spot where you can chill.

Then again, if you are going to eat some you might want to do so just before you complete your hike so that once you are still, it will already be in your system.

Also, twilight, evenings... or Full Moon, some light but not complete brightness...

Yoga, taiji & other such meditative activities are a plus...

19:54 / 26.03.02

you can believe me (or maybe not) that when I put that powder under my tongue I used a minute amount of it because I do know of the cautions. I wonder if it did work because of how much I used or because it does not always work straight away or because the powder work does not work by oral ingestion...

22:42 / 26.03.02

I have seen people not realise that they are actually being effected by salvia, while any objective observer would believe they were being effected.

When I first tried it, it took me several days to work out the actual effect I felt & even then, it took me several other attemps to gain a sort of retroactive understanding of what happend that first time.

She can certainly be tricky!!!

08:32 / 27.03.02

PATricky:

"10X??? hence the name BioDynamo?"

Yeah, something like that. They had the stuff in Amsterdam, and I figured it was the easiest way of getting the stuff shipped to Finland.. It IS legal, but customs still take a strangely negative view on legal herbal substances, so the smaller the amount, the smaller the risk of it being noticed.

It did affect me very deeply, and at one point I was near to abandoning the idea of being able to change reality at all.. The visions I had through Salvia seemed to show me a chaotic, yet "fixed" reality without future and past, only changing viewpoints. This could have ment that nothing is worthwile, worth doing..

I abandoned this worldview as potentially correct, but ineffectual in the terms of our current consensus understanding of reality. If and when the psychic revolution comes I'll jump on the bandwagon for sure, declaring the end of everything and the eternal now.. But for now it's more "radical but real politics" for me. Affecting change and so on, on the levels of social and societal interaction, not on the level of the existance of reality. So yeah, that's where BioDynamo comes from.

14:07 / 27.03.02

PATricky, wow, some useful comments. I agree to the emotional effects part... or as I felt dissapoint with not having worked/other stuff... and hope that when I do it other times what you say will happen as to my understanding it better well. though I still don't know that what little I perceived I could attribute to a placebo effect 'cause I can get into strange mental spaces all by myself and have.

14:08 / 27.03.02

Thanks much for the tips, all. I've done
a fat lot of research on it, and I've
been meaning to start work with her for
quite awhile. I feel its finally time.
I was mostly looking for reccomendations
on where to buy from.

I put through some orders yesterday, so
here's hoping for quality. I'm terribly
excited about it all. By all reports, I
should be able to do what I usually try
to do much better with Salvia than with
LSD or mushrooms. Acid's nice, but it
can be such an investment in your time
and energy.

I'm planning to start with leaf and a
gravity bong with my usual ritual team.
I think that would be best.

It might be the NyQuil lately, but I
keep dreaming about smoking and then
building extra dimentional latices in my
head. I think I'm getting a primer. I'm
not suprised, big things tend to show up
on my dream radar well ahead of time.

We'll see in a could of weeks, at any
rate.

14:57 / 27.03.02

As far as the plant itself is concerned, how hard is it to grow and are seeds available?

16:14 / 27.03.02

The funny thing about the plant, it doesn't seed. Well, it does sometimes, but very rarely. So, most plants are clones from only a handful of strains. She's a fickle one.

17:56 / 28.03.02

sagewisdom.org has an extra strength extract that ive had a great deal of success with, especially in ritual. once i combined that with the oral tincture they sell with amazing and frightening results. The world dissolved, i found myself with no body, no memory and floating in a sea of structures like mesas until the world slowly reformed before my eyes. i tried it once with a cd of whale songs and the sounds took physical form

22:39 / 28.03.02

Does anyone know where to get salvia in australia while it is still legal? I would very much like to grow some.

please help
Thanks

Tucker Tripp

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

03:56 / 29.03.02

I don't know about Australia or NY, but a friend of mine says his comes from a stall on Brick Lane market, if anyone in London's after the stuff. Only tried the leaf myself, a couple of times (smoked in a pipe and done in an entire lungful- apparently otherwise the psychoactive element gets burned off)- elves were a definite feature. As was travelling down a big spirally tunnel, kind of like the intro sequence to Doctor Who in the late 70s/early 80s. Aforementioned friend was telling me some incredible stuff about his experiences on the extract, though (not sure if he got that in the same place).
Mental note to self- must look into this further.

20:08 / 01.04.02

Wow... how exciting to hear word of such parrallel trips ... Salvia is truely seeking to tell US something.

The potential for dispondancy is one of the shadows of Salvia lessons. Much of what she teachs is what i would call postlingual & simply will not translate into conventional linguestic mentality.

Some places will ship internationally... or a faithful search at various farmer's markets, greenhouses & nursaries may well result in finding a plant. She has accumulated many friends.

04:20 / 02.04.02

there's also the notion that salivia is not in fact teaching us -- it is studying us and learning from us, and any experience we have is a side effect to the goals of salvia. indeed, it is a very non-human experience, very different from dmt for that reason.

08:43 / 02.04.02

I agree that salvia is very hard to explain - at least I found it so. One of my friends describes his experiences as being like a child again. Personally, most of my experiences seem like a lot of stuff outside of me is trying to trick me for my own good. Mind you I have only once gotten freaked by this once. I have always felt that the experience was trying to teach me something. It definitely brings up shit from your subconscious.
I have never tried DMT but I am very interested in how you see it as a more human experience.

19:19 / 02.04.02

it would be hard for me to try and distinguish on as a more HUMAN experience than another...

DMT seems to me more ALIEN in form interacting with the human consciousness, bringing it into alien spaces and such, there I have felt much more experimented with.

Salvia seems much more grounded... There's much more of a consistant personality evident in each experience. Even amidst the most extreme dissolutions there has always been a sort of gateway entity present before or after. It may just be me, and while DMT can have very consistant effects on a variety of people Salvia is opposite where the very same batch smoked in the same session can result in drasticly different experiences for each smoker... I can only suppose that the human factor is the dominant varible.

The thought of Salvia learning from us is interesting... still that plant has been around for some time now... generations at least. no-one has been able to determine where exactly it originates from. also consider that no plant has ever grown from seed stock, so outside of it crawling along the ground to reproduce it must have been brought to Oxaca by people who found it significant. Eventually the indiginous culture evolved to place that plant as a corner stone to it's spiritual belief system.
These people call Salvia Divinorium--> Mary the Sheepardess for some reason...
Are we the flock?
Are we a single lost sheep in the flock of the earth's biosphere that this plant seeks to lead back to the whole?

have I been smoking too much of this stuff?

19:51 / 02.04.02

PAtricky -- and anyone else interested -- you MUST read THE COSMIC SERPENT immediately, if you haven't already. it's an amazing account by an anthropologist who worked with ayahuasca in the amazon. he realized that shamans really and truly were able to derive objective information about the natural world from their hallucinations. ie, they learned the complicated recipes that mix various plants and chemicals together because they were "told" how to do it by the entheogens. Narby sketches out a theory that says these hallucinations are in fact us communicating directly to our DNA, which is self-conscious. DNA is in both us and the plants, and the hallucinations therefore transmit information from one to the other.

not a popular theory in modern science, obviously, but a damn interesting one.

part of my feeling about DMT being natural is because it's part of brain chemistry. dmt is present in the brain at all times, and so taking the drug is essentialy hyper-modifiying something already present -- in Mkenna's theory, it's as if we've been "given" DMT by aliens who want to communicate with us. well and good, i can perhaps by that. the experience itself is alien, yes, but it's existence and the similarity of experiences suggests to me a natural human connection between DMT and human minds. the way you come out, no hangover, smarter, assimilating the experience -- it's as if it's meant to be.

but the uniqueness of the salvia experience makes it seem more... experimental. it's newer. people have been using it for generations, but not in this highly extracted form.

you say that the differing experiences of salvia lead you to consider it more human. i understand what you mean, but i would suggest it's not that salvia is more human, it is that it is its own organism. DMT is like software for the human brain (hence, its humanness as i call it) but salvia is letting something else in, and NEITHER ONE OF YOU knows what's going to happen.

20:09 / 02.04.02

So I tried some this weekend with two friends, all of us pretty experienced with this sort of thing. We smoked leaf and 6x extract through both a gravity bong and a water pipe, with a high temp butane lighter.

The results? Well, it was kind of trancy. We all agreed it enhanced psychic senses a bit, and made it easier to meditate into shamanic space. However, it remained as only an enabler for our own exploration. It did not cause the sort of psychedelic experiences others have told of. It was passively psychedelic rather than actively, if that makes sense. The most I got from it was after several bowls of 6X in quick sucession I was able to disconnect from reality into a higher space enough to perceive that I was definitely in a new space where I would have to "reach down" to interact with normal reality again. I sort of floated there for awhile. It was neat, but I didn't go "outside" in any capacity, though with my eyes closed I found I could travel more easily that way.

I was a little suprised, I thought it would be more powerful. All 3 of us reported about the same results. It felt like it was *almost* about to do something really grand, but never quite got there. However, the more we did of it over the afternoon, the more it seemed to do. I've heard one sometimes has to do it repeatedly over time before it really works. I got the impression that was the case with us, or that what we got wasn't very strong at all, or both. There is also the factor of the house we were in being extremely shielded. It has the name "fortress" for a reason. We did feel very positive afterwards, though.

22:20 / 02.04.02

I've heard of the cosmic serpent... maybe I should finally check it out...

Ever read the Pharmacopia... been picking at it... there's quite alot about Salvia there. The author's theory (from what I've got) is that consciousness is essentially plant baised, highly speciallised. Humans exist as a sort of catiliser where plant consciousnesses can combine & interact in varied forms...
Essentially there is never a moment that we are not with some form of plant consciousness playing itself out. Human "ego" & self consciousness is a sort of residue left over from many layers of plant consciousnesses overlapping. "it" believes itself to be the source of consciousness.. but overlooks the constant diet of plants, eaten, smoked, distilled, etc.

The concept of Salvia not "knowing" what to expect from each new encounter makes lots of sence. Each person reacts differently because of the essance of their introduction to this "other" consciousness.

DMT is verymuch like a new software pack. I distinctly remember feeling as if a whole new section of my brain had been activated upon introduction.

Still... which IS "newer" DMT or Salvia?

Granted the extracts are a recient novelty, still in my view a technological shortcut. One can "learn" to go as deep or as far with time & devotion. By the same token here we have Cusm who discribes the extract with terms easily interchangable with someone who just tried a few leaves. interesting. Come back to it again and see if something builds upon that intro...

The Salvia vs. DMT debate is interesting for sure... kind of indulgant in a way...

each will experience each in their own manor, baised on their own experiences...

Imagine combining the 2 of them?

has anyone tried this?

I've smoked them each in succession... first DMT then Salvia. My experience with DMT then was fun, yet not nearly as profound as what I was able to "do" after Salvia allowed me to double-back onto the previous "trip" and make adjustments to both my subtle & gross body.

19:01 / 03.04.02

Okay, here's some news I found in my inbox!!!

19:56 / 03.04.02

Wow. For an ABC article, that's surprisingly balanced.

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