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Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:00 / 03.04.07
There are a lot of people who identify as multiples who resist the suggestion that multiplicity is always an artifact of abuse. They see their systems as perfectly healthy and functional, just a different way of being.
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:19 / 03.04.07
I considered that myself, when looking at the article, i know i developed an ability to section off myself into differing characters or acts from roleplaying in my teens and early twenties, part of me wonders if that was a function manifesting from abuse.

Also i know at various periods i have adopted others models of themselves for long periods of time as a survival mechanism, plus all the usual growing up explorations of different parts of me learnt by communicating to myself and with others.

So the whole area is kind of open, but there is a part of me that identifies with disassociation and knows what that is, to hide from the self because of the pain. Its intresting that the article describes a unifying that can take place in mid life or hints at it.

I know my drug explorations also allowed me to compartmentalise and create versions of myself, so the question of multiples does become an open ended one. I guess the main question i would pose is, are the multiple empowering the person to live as best they can, if so, i see no dilemma. Also if otherkin lifestyle is serving the same function of empowerment then i dont see a problem, but all too often i see negative expressions of otherkiness online, thou the positve and enriching ones are there.
 
 
Ticker
15:20 / 03.04.07
Interestingly enough it's the ability to disassociate that many Ordeal traditions cultivate in perfectly sane happy people to open them up to the spiritworld.

So my thinking is some folks do it because they learned to as a coping mechanism and other folks learn it for magical/spiritual purposes. Sure enough some folks figure out since they do it anyhow they might as well put it to use for something they like.

I believe TV has been shown to be a major promoter of the Disassociative state?
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:30 / 03.04.07
Something that intrigues me about multiples is how do you define reality, because you dont have one personality with a monopoly on its sanction, you end up with alot of differing models, which can cause internal conflict.

Also boundaries of selves, I feel older selves dying off and new selves being born as my life changes, shedding skins. If the self isnt consistant, and mine definately isnt how do you become integral to yourself? At what point are you, you?
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:34 / 03.04.07
Or does each model of self have an internal consistancy of its own, and as a field of selves, a community of self expression have a unifying sphere of meaning?

Again as mentioned earlier it seems to look at the notion of boundarys between things with regards to shifting shape/self and the idea of possession.
 
 
The Ghost of Tom Winter
20:10 / 03.04.07
Sorry, I didn't mean totem in the sense of guardian and whatnot, I didn't know what word to use. What would otherkin call their other "selves" since they consider it a part of their self would it just be... their self?

wolfangel what you speak of reminds me a lot of what Zen and other eastern philosophies speak of. I remember someone describing a meditation commonly used (it might have been mentioned in the Invisibles) where you ask your self what you are, and keep going until your idea of self is completely changed. I never did it so I'm probably getting some bits wrong.
 
 
Triplets
13:01 / 04.04.07
I have to say that I've experienced similar things in my time at the home. At key points I've felt parts of my personality being put away as if I were backstage, ready for the next act. One coat comes off, another comes on. Different buttons, tassels. Mannerisms. Sometimes it's a perfect fit.

Sometimes it doesn't.

It doesn't help that, as a young adult, I suffered an accident that left me somewhat disfigured. When your inner and outer shells are struck, you feel like you're clutching to a raft made of tattered bits. Flotsam.
Is anyone suprised that the masks I wear now are a bit loose. That I when try to smile it may be a bit too hard? I didn't mean to frighten the kids.

Emotional trauma seems to be a catalyst, many of my changes have come about following an instance of violence.
It doesn't help that I have what my counsellor calls an 'unstable' relationship with my on-again off-again boyfriend, with his own set of issues. Or that we engage, in what some might call, 'rough play'. But each to their own, surely? I do sometimes wonder if I'd be a lot healthier for leaving him, but what if he keeps me turning? Changing? The water in my prayer wheel.

Without him I might run out.

You have to laugh, I suppose.
 
 
Ticker
14:36 / 04.04.07
It doesn't help that, as a young adult, I suffered an accident that left me somewhat disfigured. When your inner and outer shells are struck, you feel like you're clutching to a raft made of tattered bits. Flotsam.
Is anyone suprised that the masks I wear now are a bit loose. That I when try to smile it may be a bit too hard? I didn't mean to frighten the kids.

Emotional trauma seems to be a catalyst, many of my changes have come about following an instance of violence.
It doesn't help that I have what my counsellor calls an 'unstable' relationship with my on-again off-again boyfriend, with his own set of issues. Or that we engage, in what some might call, 'rough play'. But each to their own, surely? I do sometimes wonder if I'd be a lot healthier for leaving him, but what if he keeps me turning? Changing? The water in my prayer wheel.

Without him I might run out.

You have to laugh, I suppose.

There's a lot going on in that post, Trips.
Abuse is not the same BDSM related rough play. If you don't feel safe and respected there's an issue you need to address. No one is entitled to abuse you and have you justify it as a needful 'water-on-prayer-wheel' experience.

Believe me, there are enough hard experiences built into life as not to need making room for them. You won't run out, you'll use other experiences to grow and learn from as well as derive passion. Many people confuse conflict with intimacy, anger for passion, and strive to endure what is easily released.
 
 
Quantum
14:43 / 04.04.07
One coat comes off, another comes on.

I think, trips, that the difference is that your coat doesn't have animal ears sewn onto the hood and a plush tail. Everone has different aspects of their personality that come to the fore in different situations, but that's not the same as being multiple, which in turn is not the same as otherkin. IMHO.

I'd like to echo TTS in seperated survivors of abuse and multiples. I know many, many survivors who aren't like that at all, and as TTS said many multiples have no connection with abuse and rightly protest at the association.
In fact I'm getting more tempted every week to start the SBR Surviving Abuse thread, although I'm waiting for the board to chill out a bit first- at the moment I can't start a thread on the Proclaimers or youth jargon without sparking mass controversy so hell knows what would happen if I brought up sexual abuse. Maybe in the summer holidays when it's quiet.
 
 
Papess
14:43 / 04.04.07
Dear me. I second what XK said, Triplets. What a headtrip.
 
 
Papess
14:47 / 04.04.07
In fact I'm getting more tempted every week to start the SBR Surviving Abuse thread

I have been thinking about this myself, but I am a very emo type and I would rather have the guidelines down before I begin discussion. I just don;t want to have a thread solely about my experience, but experiences in general around abuse.

Apologies for double-posting, yet again, and the offtopicness.
 
 
Quantum
14:49 / 04.04.07
X-post with XK. Many people confuse conflict with intimacy, anger for passion, and strive to endure what is easily released.

Wise words. I'd add that many people (not talking about you here trip) will take being abused over being ignored, and rather have a bad relationship than no relationship. Ties back in to self esteem, childhood experience, negative feedback loops etc. as (I suspect) does a lot of otherkin behaviour.
 
 
Ticker
15:05 / 04.04.07
Let's talk about the proposed SBR thread here
 
 
Triplets
23:08 / 04.04.07
Thanks for your comments. This is a lot of what my doctor has already gone over with me. She's wise. Unorthodox, but I suppose genius sometimes appears that way?

I don't know, this cycle of fists between my dark partner and I is unhealthy, I suppose. It's hard to talk about. I often find myself laughing instead. Laughing until it hurts. Another mask.

But I find I can't live without his attention. Not his approval. I know I'd never get that. But he's so focused, so angry sometimes. You'd feel like his gaze could bring life to a dead thing. To me. Give me that extra power I need to pull myself together.

When he went away for a year I felt like I was going to drift away.

This has brought up a lot of painful stuff. I will ask Dr. Quinn and see what she thinks.
 
 
Papess
23:26 / 04.04.07
Sometimes it is helpful to give a name to, and define those parts of ourselves we may need to destroy, or perhaps, just put in their proper place.
 
 
Mako is a hungry fish
10:15 / 07.04.07
This issue may have already been covered in this thread, so apologies if it has and I overlooked it, but energetic vampirism and otherkin are two seperate things. Whilst some energy vampires may identify the cause of their vampirism to being otherkin, leading to a subtle/physical body mismatch and hence energy blockages or deficient energy production, this is not true of all energy vampires. Daynah in the barbelith thread on Psychic Vampires makes mention of Kheprians and energy vampires who identify the cause of their vampirism to be an altered energy body due to past life psychic surgery, and whilst there are some of this belief who think this psychic surgery was done due to their originally being otherkin, this is not true of all who hold this belief.

Further, there are those whose reasons for energetic vampirism have little similarity to otherkin; they simply don't live a healthy lifestyle that produces enough energy, they just enjoy 'feeding' similar to the way some people enjoy receiving Reiki, their magical practice requires more energy than they can naturally produce, or they have an energetic parasite that feeds off them in the first place.

Whilst I agree with the majority of sentiments posted on otherkin and vampires, that many are little more than role-playing teeny boppers or mentally unstable maladaptives, I think the same can be said of many practitioner of magic and spiritual beliefs whether they be Chaos Mages, Wiccans, Catholics, Hemeticists, etc. etc. etc. I also think that just like Chaos Mages, Wiccans, Catholics, Hermeticists, etc. etc. etc. there are some out there who actually are a healthy combination of sane, social, and skilled, with a pretty firm grasp on reality and many experiences (complete with introspection) that have led them to the path they walk.
 
 
Mono
09:34 / 27.08.07
Otherkin in mainstream media:

Searching through the 'Listen Again' section of Radio 4's website, I found a play about Otherkin. I'm going to try to give it a listen at work today.

The broadcast date was Thursday 23/8/07. It should be online for a week.

Here's the link to the Afternoon Play Listen Again site.
 
 
Mono
09:37 / 27.08.07
Oops. I read the site wrong.

It WILL BE broadcast THIS Thursday 30/08/2007. It might be interesting, ti might be crap. Let's see!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:01 / 28.01.08
Got pointed towards this article on the Dragon subculture recently. It kind of articulates a lot of the problems I have with the Otherkin subculture.

From the article: "Suspend your disbelief for a moment, and suppose -- hypothetically -- that, once upon a time, dragons really existed. The majestic, wise, and terrible creatures of myth were not mythical at all...

...their souls continued to exist, and eventually were reborn into human bodies. Some of the dragon-souled somehow came to realize their true nature...

What would these people be like? Great statesmen, thinkers, and artists? Would they use their ancient wisdom and noble nature to become influential, wealthy, and powerful leaders of mankind and usher in a Golden Age of peace and prosperity?"

No, apparently they'd end up unwaged or holding down poorly-paid and unrewarding jobs, spending their free time in MUCKs, chatrooms and newsgroups roleplaying "hatchie day" parties and having pretend sex. Now there is nothing intrinsically wrong with having a crap job or being out of work, or with with infantilism, roleplay, or internet sexxings. There is nothing intrinsically fucked up about convincing yourself that you have a Dragon soul. What I found disturbing was the image painted by the writer of a wholly toxic environment where people were encouraged and supported in abandoning consensual reality for a play-party. It's one thing to have a crap job because that's just what's going on in your life atm, and it's another to be stuck in a crap job because you spend too much time pretending to be a Dragon on the internet.

The author harps on in a rather obnoxious manner about the prevelance of obesity in the group, as if this proved something negative in and of itself. Plainly this is a bullshit attitude--one can be big and lovely, big and healthy, big and happy. However, it does have to be admitted that this is not what is going on here. If your Dragon alter ego has arms like two socks full of cantaloupes and a six-pack you could crack rocks on, whereas you yourself weigh 400lbs, something is Not Right. The impression I got was that these poor human bodies simply didn't matter anymore: this is not my body, it's just the human "host" for my soul. My body is not only ripped but can fly, eat people, and probably shoot lasers out of its arse. Therefore instead of loving and nurturing this body (the one I happen to be living in) I am going to ignore it, pretend it doesn't exist. I'm not going to nourish it effectively or give it fun things to do. I'm going to feed it crap and wait for it to die so I can go back to being a dragon.

As with other 'Kin phenotypes, there's a lot of hyoomon-bashing, analagous to the smug comments about "muggles" and "mundanes" that one sees in magical and occult communities. This serves to reinforce isolation from reality and from the rest of the world. Why get out there and mix with people when they are all weak, pathetic mortals, unfit to associate with your noble Draconic self?

Suicide, it appears, is painfully prevalent. No shit.

(NB: although about 50% of the subculture don't actually believe that they themselves are dragons, they aren't challenging the beliefs of those who do. To do so would be a huge breach of etiquette.)

I guess what I found distressing about the lifestyles depicted by the article, and the Dragons and other Otherkin I've come into contact with personally, is that there's no change or transformation going on, no growth. The belief systems seem to be a force for stagnation, substituting a convenient narrative for meaningful action. Why study when you can make stuff up? Why go down the gym when you can just draw more muscles on your alt? Why have friends when you can hang out online with people who can see your Draconic majesty and will agree to call you Lorde NightWing StarBollocks?

There are, of course, people who maintain meaningful practices which have as a componant the idea of interacting with an animal spirit in some way. This might either be as an outside force or as some form of second-self. In the latter case, this will not generally be expressed as "I was an [insert animal] in a Past Life™" but as "I am an [insert animal] right now; there is that in me which is of the nature of [insert animal] and I derive strength from it."

What I notice about people who have this going on in a sane and healthy way is that the emphasis is all on transformation and growth. This is usually expressed as and measured by demonstrable ability and achievement--physical feats, magical accomplishments, intellectual or emotional development (greater concentration, improved mental skills, more emotional stability etc). What can I do today that I could not do yesterday? What can I strive for tomorrow? The beliefs themselves do not fulfill any wishes, it's the quantifiable development and achievement derived from a system utilising those beliefs that creates fulfillment. Make any sense?
 
 
Closed for Business Time
11:13 / 28.01.08
A truckload, dear. Well written to boot!
 
 
Terrance
21:23 / 28.01.08
Amen. That's pretty much how I feel about just about all otherkin, save House Kheperu and maybe Quinotaur, two vampire houses. They're the only ones I see actually working towards anything without actually engaging in the whole "I'm a vampire; Fear me" thing that some others seem to have going on.

I saw a documentary on vampirism at the video store the other day (I kid you not). It seemed to cover the generic "angsty teens drinking blood for shock factor" type of vampire, but I might check it out anyway. Could be interesting.
 
 
Terrance
21:45 / 28.01.08
To clarify, I don't oppose the concept of vampirism as described by House Kheperu and Michelle Belanger's Psychic Vampire Codex, as I believe it ties in very well with the concept of psi. But I strongly disagree with vampirism as described by quite a large number of "vampires" I've met online, which is generally something along the lines of having the soul of a fantasy creature that doesn't exist trapped in their bodies.

I think that in those cases, it's like an internet meme. This case of vampirism possibly started with a kid roleplaying a vampire online and through an insane amount of misconceptions, evolved to where it is now. I think we've seen this happen before, such as with The Da Vinci Code, by Dan Brown. What began as fiction has become a strong belief by numerous people.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
06:45 / 29.01.08
This case of vampirism possibly started with a kid roleplaying a vampire online and through an insane amount of misconceptions, evolved to where it is now. I think we've seen this happen before, such as with The Da Vinci Code, by Dan Brown. What began as fiction has become a strong belief by numerous people.

That sounds plausible. Another parallel, I suppose, would be black metal- what began as Black Sabbath having a laugh because they knew people liked horror movies eventually turned into a bunch of Satanists in Norway killing each other.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
07:44 / 29.01.08
That may be the case, but the approximate model of vampirism that tends to get bandied around on the web has existed for some time. Dion Fortune makes mention of it in Psychic Self-Defence.

It's never struck me as terribly convincing. It doesn't seem to jibe with what I understand about other cultures' model of the energy body, nor does it jibe with my own experience of the way my "energy body" appears to work in relation to the universe when I'm working within that model. I see this energy as universal, permeating everything; I don't need to suck it out of anyone because it's already flowing through me quite naturally.

None of which would matter especially, except that it doesn't appear to be a terribly healthy thing to believe either. Unlike other practices involving the energy-body model (eg. tai-chi and related arts) "vampirism" seems to go hand-in-hand with dysfunctionality. I've met one or two rare individuals who would identify aspects of their makeup as vampiric in some sense but who are otherwise sorted magic-wise and whom I respect. However I have never met anyone who identified primarily as a vampire, in that "Hi I'm Fred and I'm a vampire" way, who wasn't either a decent but very disturbed and troubled person or a total fucking wanker. I've certainly never met anyone for whom "being a vampire" seemed like a positive thing in terms of contributing to that individual's overall health and functionality. It seems to be associated with the most bloody awful experiences--ill-health, chronic fatigue, getting mixed up with abusive arseholes, having to beta-read Anne Rice fanfiction, etc.--but little in the way of empowerment or personal fulfillment.
 
 
Terrance
07:57 / 29.01.08
This case of vampirism...
"This" refering to the roleplayers, not vampirism as a whole.

I think Mako may be onto something there. In reality, vampirism and the otherkin aren't much different from spiritualities and religions - some people do follow them, but others only think they do.

I should get back on topic.

Does anybody know of any particularly good otherkin books, perhaps something similar to Michelle Belanger's 'Psychic Vampire Codex', ie history, beliefs, ethics, etc? Perhaps 'A Field Guide to Otherkin', by Lupa? It only has a small amount of reviews, but they're all very positive.
 
 
Terrance
08:08 / 29.01.08
I have never met anyone who identified primarily as a vampire, in that "Hi I'm Fred and I'm a vampire" way, who wasn't either a decent but very disturbed and troubled person or a total fucking wanker.
Me either. In fact, as far as I've seen, a lot of vampires rarely admit it outright at all. Probably for a good reason too. If I were a vampire, I'd refuse to use that term entirely.

I've certainly never met anyone for whom "being a vampire" seemed like a positive thing in terms of contributing to that individual's overall health and functionality. It seems to be associated with the most bloody awful experiences--ill-health, chronic fatigue, getting mixed up with abusive arseholes, having to beta-read Anne Rice fanfiction, etc.--but little in the way of empowerment or personal fulfillment.
That's what always got me wondering why in the hell do people keep showing up on vampire message boards and asking if they can be turned into a vampire? Some think its possible (the general understanding appears to be that it's not), but really, why would you want to suffer the ailments associated with it, some of which Talks to Strangers has mentioned. Perhaps these people are the reasons for all the "fake" vampires floating around?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:22 / 29.01.08
Raven Kaldera has a book out--Ethical Psychic Vampirism, I think. I haven't read it but I know his Northern Tradition work is very good.

Edit: my mistake, it's The Ethical Psychic Vampire.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:29 / 29.01.08
. In fact, as far as I've seen, a lot of vampires rarely admit it outright at all. Probably for a good reason too. If I were a vampire, I'd refuse to use that term entirely.

One thing I notice is that the term gets slapped onto all sorts of completely banal interactions. A boring person is one who exhausts your patience, patience = teh psychic energy = OMG boringperson is teh VAMPYRE!!! instead of just, y'know, a boring person who made you bored.

(I'd also suggest that regarding oneself as a sort of stealth vampire, a vampire who rejects the term so as to avoid being confused with all those other, less impressive vampires isn't really terribly healthy either. One would still be operating within the same dysfunctional model, just more quietly.)
 
 
Terrance
08:59 / 29.01.08
Raven Kaldera has a book out--Ethical Psychic Vampirism, I think. I haven't read it but I know his Northern Tradition work is very good.
Yes, I've heard of The Ethical Psychic Vampire and Raven Kaldera. I believe she is a friend of Michelle Belanger's, but I haven't read the book. Do you know if it covers otherkin as well as psychic vampirism?

(I'd also suggest that regarding oneself as a sort of stealth vampire, a vampire who rejects the term so as to avoid being confused with all those other, less impressive vampires isn't really terribly healthy either.)
There have been quite a few terms suggested, usually along the lines of psion and pranist. I believe I read somewhere that House Quinotaur endorsed the use of 'Quinotauri' as a less misused alternative, and I also believe those of House Kheperu call each other Kheprians for the same reason.

I may have misunderstood your post, but how is using an alternative name unhealthy? One might argue that you shouldn't deny what you are, but I'm sure that the real vampires don't view themselves as the vampires portrayed in fiction.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:10 / 29.01.08
He. Raven is a guy.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should deny what they are. However, I'm not at all convinced that anyone actually is a psychic vampire as I understand the term.

I have, as outlined above, a lot of problems with the whole concept of psychic vampirism, whether one calls oneself a vampire, a psion or a Wellington boot. The model it's all based on seems a very shaky to me, and as I've said it runs counter to my own experience of energy work. I daresay it all works, in the sense that if you visualise yourself drawing strength and vitality from another person you are likely to have the subjective experience of feeling stronger and more vital thereafter, and conversely if you imagine yourself to be contributing strength and vitality to someone else you'll feel weak and depleted. I'm just not at all sure that what's going on is what people tell me is going on.
 
 
Terrance
09:18 / 29.01.08
He. Raven is a guy.
Sorry, I didn't realise.

... I'm just not at all sure that what's going on is what people tell me is going on.
That's the beauty of the occult world. Nobody's wrong, and yet, at the same time, everyone is right. I personally believe that most of the occult "phenomenon" is more of a self-fulfilling prophesy. Like you say, if one visualises and believes that they are drawing energy from something, they probably will feel rejuvenated afterwards, whether they actually "did" anything or not. But hey, wrong or right, as long as it works for me, I'm not going to complain. Everybody else can believe whatever works for them.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:25 / 29.01.08
That's the beauty of the occult world. Nobody's wrong, and yet, at the same time, everyone is right.

That's either the beauty of the occult world, or the ghastly crushing stick your head in a gas oven and pluck your teeth out with a pair of pliers willful ignorance of the occult world. One of the two.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:32 / 29.01.08
Which is to say, it doesn't hurt to at least have a flirtation with constructive scepticism and try to interrogate from time-to-time whether the models you have constructed around "magical phenomena" are accurate and stand up to alternative perspectives. As opposed to deciding from the outset that you are, for instance, a "vampire", jumping through hoops to discount all evidence that does not conform to that pre-chosen model, and desperately clinging onto this interpretation of things until your knuckles turn white rather than entertaining other possible perspectives on what might be happening...
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:52 / 29.01.08
That's the beauty of the occult world. Nobody's wrong, and yet, at the same time, everyone is right.

Now see, this is an idea that I have huge huge HUGE problems with. In truth, we're probably all a little bit wrong all of the time, a lot wrong some of the time, and completely and utterly wrong a darn sight more than we'd like to think. More importantly, everyone isn't right. I don't subscribe to the idea that it's more important to play nice and not tread on anyone's toes than it is to rigourously challenge and interrogate magical concepts and belief systems. So much, so very much, just gets passed from book to book, person to person and website to website completely unchallenged, as if it was axiomatic graven-in-stone truth. It's not.

What do we mean by energy anyway? Why conceptualise the movement of energy as feeding? Why do we think there's more psi or chi or prana in some guy's blood than there is in tap-water? Who the Hel says so? When Daynah was here I read the websites for House This and House That and I groaned, mate. They all say the same thing! It's all the same concepts, trotted out faithfully by each successive ankh-logoed group, with nary a sign that any evaluation or critical processing had occured meanwhile. Making up a different name for something and deciding to be Merovingians instead of Cainites and having a squiggle instead of an ankh or a sea-monster instead of a bat is not the same as re-evaluating the material. If I saw that happening, I'd be impressed. I haven't.

I still wouldn't have too much of a problem if it didn't all seem so downright toxic. Oh, I can't find a donor, I am weak and poorly/prone to fits of rage. Oooh, I ate a druggie last night and now I'm going to be sick for weeks. Oh no, the only person I can get blood from hasn't been tested for AIDS, syphillis etc. Oh no child protection services have taken my kids because I told the social worker I drink blood. Woe is me I can't get a job because I can't leave the house before dusk. I am a tragic figure doomed to wander at the fringes of society/a darque predator who preys on the sheeplike mundanes etc etc etc...

I'm sorry, but... What IS all this SHIT!? How does it help anyone? How does it make anyone more effective as a person? How does it make the living of this tricky human life any easier, any less unpleasant, or anymore meaningful? Does it do anything to address the problems being described by the vampires/psions/sea-monsters etc in the long term? It doesn't! All it seems to offer is some kind of temporary palliative, at the expense of making someone else feel a little crappier than they already did. All I can see people getting out of this stuff is... well, being a vampire, and getting to have a cool sekrit name for being a vampire. And if "vampire" is not an accurate or adequate description for what is going on, then why hang onto all this vampire crap anyway? Why not start from scratch, ask oneself what's really going on here, look for alternatives--build an orgone accumulator, take up Qui Gung, pop a freaking vitamin pill. Anything but another rewrite of the bloody Codex.
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:30 / 29.01.08
The ethical psychic vampire is a very good book, i have read it. (surprise, suprise)

What follows is the blurb from Ravan's website ~

The Ethical Psychic Vampire, by Raven Kaldera
If you've ever felt that your energy or life force was being continually drained by someone - especially if it was someone that you loved - then you probably should have given them this book. This is the definitive guide to psychic vampires, with exercises and advice to help them learn control and compassion, and get their needs met in ethical ways. Far too many books on the subject treat psychic vampires as "those awful people over there who should be avoided"; this book treats them as real human beings who may need a little help coping with a challenging and ambivalent psychic gift. Written by a psychic vampire and shaman, "The Ethical Psychic Vampire" also covers such controversial topics as spirituality, sex magic, and ceremonial blood-drinking. From coping with vampire children to dealing with your vampire lover, this book covers it all in straightforward style. Buy The Ethical Psychic Vampire at Amazon. ~

Another good book in that subject area is Nigel jacksons - The Compleat Vampyre, more blurb from the publishers website follows ~

Vampyre shamanism & wolf cults in Europe. The intensely shamanic vampyre characteristics are explored in depth. The undead is a night-flying wraith of the dead or the entranced who roams through the night, sometimes in animal or bird form. Shamanism is an archaic & universal system of magically inspired mindstates, a ?technique of ecstasy? which is found all over the world & amongst virtually all peoples at one time or another. Vampyre mythology can be seen to contain many strange mysteries which cast new light on ancient conceptions of the soul-entity & the multi-faceted reality which lies beyond the grave. This is a mythology of death, considered literally as the termination of the physical body & symbolically as a metaphor for profound trance states during which the soul, wraith or ghost leaves the inert body & ventures forth. A fascinating book where religion, myth, magic, legend & fact all come together. ISBN 1898307 31 8 ~

Now while Ravans book gives a sense of identity to the person as a vampire (which as others have stated above seems to create all sorts of dysfunctions), its not completely within that vein, i remember some very good chapters on devotional practices to a variety of figures that could be considered 'dark' goddesses or gods and also some some well constructed ritual.

Nigels book, this being from memory so forgive if i am completely wrong about its character has a very different take, thou partially made reference too in Ravans book.

That is the idea of vampirism as a form of sorcery, similar to the idea of a shaman that blows invisible darts into his enemy, vampirism then becomes not an identity as such but a magical practice, not a particulary pleasent one, much like a curse or arranging for someone to be haunted.

The vampire is viewed much like a traditional fetch or astral body and is tied into the ability of shamans (some, not all) to shape shift. It occurs to me that this is where the valid magical practices get caught into the 20th century narrative of these figures as a form of identity rather than a magical practice.

Whether the idea of vampirism can actually be truly ethical is problematic indeed.
 
  

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