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Otherkin

  
  

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Quantum
13:12 / 02.03.06
Otherkin. Deluded outcasts or powerful shapeshifters? Vampires, werewolves, faeries and elves, catpeople, whatever- what do you think?

Identifying with an animal, fair enough, totemic magic, fair enough, animal spirits, psychological shifting, dream shifting fair enough, but physically changing? I don't believe in P-Shifting (changing physically into your animal form) because it sounds like the people who claim to do it are nutters. I would be prepared to believe that a powerful magician could change into an animal, and in fact a lot of Shamanic techniques rely on animal magic including taking on the aspects of beasts and such. But going to the park and stripping then running around in the form of a Dragon?
Molatar You Nutter.

Links:
otherkin dot com
otherkin dot net
the castle of Molatar
 
 
Quantum
13:18 / 02.03.06
Some old threads-
Psychic Vampires
Werewolves and Otherkin

Oh, and let's keep it polite people, it can be a touchy subject.
 
 
zoemancer
15:02 / 02.03.06
Indeed this is a fascinating subject that I am currently making a documentary film about.

What strikes me as the most interesting aspect of it is that there are so many people who claim to be Otherkin. From the research we are doing for the documentary so far we are seeing a global community in the tens of thousands possibly more.

The most difficult part about this research is distinguishing between someone who "claims" to be Otherkin and someone who really is Otherkin. Then there is the question of what exactly is an Otherkin really? I believe anything is possible so I have an open mind about all of it. My current theories are as follows:

1. It is purely a form of mental escapism that has taken the form of a kind of group mind (egregore)
2. They are actual mutants who maybe have different DNA and do possess some kind of supernormal abilities.
3. They are tapped into some kind of shamanic magical consciousness that exists purely within the realm of the mind or on another plane of existence.
4. Combination of those and something else I have not discovered yet.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
18:27 / 02.03.06
In some cases, I think it's a bit of a laugh. A joke. Fun. A silly internet thing like Chuck Norris or the badger/snake song.

On the other hand, in some people it seems to be a maladaptive coping mechanism, generally found in internet users from a white middle class conservative background, that strives to create a new, liberating, unconventional paradigm to inhabit yet fails by constantly co-opting an idea of escapism totally within the borders of the restrictive "nerd" community, generally involving sterile, conventional and dull interpretations of classic mythical creatures designed to shift product- the dragon a la Dungeons &, the vampire as in The Masquerade or Buffy the Slayer.

Characterised by anal obsession with details; for example, descriptors such as "I am a level 5 Dragon\Trigryph ranger", and/or quantified physical attributes, either along the lines of D&D stats (Strength 6 Dexterity 4) or specifications such as "10 testicles", "Three wings" etcetera.
 
 
*
19:56 / 02.03.06
Alright, here.

I have a close friend who rather sneers at Otherkin culture, but who is zirself significantly species-dysphoric, to the point of having actually fallen down reflexively attempting to go after a rabbit on four legs. Ze is extremely highly-functioning in human society, but this is a result of overcoming the difficulties inherent in this kind of self-identification. Certainly it caused zir significant problems in zir adolescence.

Where I think the problem is, is when people become convinced that by virtue of identifying as a member of another species, they are special in a way that human-identifying humans are not. I think that creates problems in that people who want to be specialer than the mehums will claim that identity, and many people for whom that desire is a strong motivating factor are around the twist. Thus, there are large numbers of people who identify as Otherkin who are in fact around the twist. But I wouldn't discount a serious species-dysphoria as a real phenomenon just because that situation obtains.

Another problem I see is that you may never reach people like my friend if you call your documentary an Otherkin documentary and look in the Otherkin community for participants.
 
 
Ganesh
20:10 / 02.03.06
Where I think the problem is, is when people become convinced that by virtue of identifying as a member of another species, they are special in a way that human-identifying humans are not.

I agree, and think this is somewhat problematic because a significant minority - if not a majority - of human beings feel, at some point of their lives, different and/or disconnected from their fellow humans. Feeling 'other' is so widespread that it might as well be viewed as one of the core elements of the human condition. What varies is the hook upon which one hangs that universal sense of 'otherness'. For some, it's Otherkin - although they can surely have no properly valid way of experiencing 'rabbitness' or 'dragonness' or whatever.

To me, it seems a little like the Goths truism of identikit 'INDIVIDUAL' tattoos: in identifying oneself as alienated from one's human fellows, one taps into a common (if unpredictable) aspect of being human.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:22 / 02.03.06
id_entity makes a good point. I find Otherkin culture as I encounter it on the internet... well, risible. And then I feel bad about that, because I think I ought to be a bit more on board. A lot of the work I do has to do with consciousnesses that are not embodied in any usual sense, so I should be on board with the idea of a consciousness that survives after death. It's not tht much of a stretch from there to think about re-incarnation; nor is it much of a stretch to think about non-human consciousnesses; and so it's not much of a stretch to think about the incarnation of a consciousness that is other than human ending up in a human body somehow.

So having said that, what is my beef with Otherkin? I guess my beef is the same as with a lot of fluffy magical types: poorly examined ideas, assumptions, and outright fantasies. Many of the 'memories' I've seen described are culled from popular culture; I particularly recall reading a post by a woman who remembered a previous life as a female winged elf who was captured and cruelly confined in a cage, causing her wings to become infected and require amputation. Those of you who have played Baldur's Gate II can stop chortling. It was a real live past life memory and it was very tragic. (I admit I now have a stock joke about the person who was a cat, elf, fairy, dragon, angel who lost hir wings and is trying to grow them back. With magics.)

And all this would be fine--you want to be an elf? Be an elf, fine, whatever--but the Otherkin identity often seems part of a maladaptive coping mechanism. No-one is allowed to question these memories, no matter how suspect they may seem or how badly the person is screwing up hir life based on the Otherkin identity.
 
 
Wyrd
23:09 / 02.03.06
I encountered Otherkin about 5/6 years ago and first thought that they were all taking the piss. After some time in dialogue with a number of them I've changed my mind somewhat.

From what I've observed Otherkin attracts a young alienated crowd who are looking for people "who understand them" - yeah, teenagers.

This does not mean that they're all fluffy, self-involved, middle-class kids, even if a great deal of them fall into that category.

A couple of Otherkin have pinged on my radar as being "about their business", so if they think that in previous existence they were a Dragon, or an Elf, then who am I to say that they are wrong? Whatever gets you through the night.

What I find more worrisome is that the Otherkin community has many of the unattractive traits of a cult. They are self-supporting, and often do not interrogate popular belief systems that percolate among the groups. They crave acceptance. If anyone questions their opinions they usually react in a defensive and angry fashion. I've seen ridiculous examples of this. I know of a great sting operation where a person pretended to be an Otherkin and made a lot of outlandish suggestions, and got full support from the Otherkin he met.

There are a number of good people in the community that I have encountered, and they do not pretend that their ideas make sense to anyone other than them.

The notion of the self/soul is so varied, and personal, that it's pretty damn hard to say to an Otherkin "you're barking mad, mate". That would be rather rich coming from me, for instance.

What I dislike the most is the distinction made between the Otherkin and the rest of the world - humans, mundanes, or whatever term Otherkin use to reinforce their victim/loner complex. They constantly refer to the fact that other people don't understand them, or how they're so different from the rest of the world.

My theory is that is actually one of the most common experiences in the world. If anything it might be a defining trait of humanity.

In this regard, we're all Otherkin. Like anything else, it's a label. If it helps someone deal with the world that's great, but I suspect in many cases it allows some people to wallow in their sense of self-importance and uniqueness to the detriment of their connection to people outside of their cosy group.
 
 
*
04:08 / 03.03.06
What I find more worrisome is that the Otherkin community has many of the unattractive traits of a cult. They are self-supporting, and often do not interrogate popular belief systems that percolate among the groups. They crave acceptance. If anyone questions their opinions they usually react in a defensive and angry fashion. I've seen ridiculous examples of this. I know of a great sting operation where a person pretended to be an Otherkin and made a lot of outlandish suggestions, and got full support from the Otherkin he met.

I assume here we are talking about a cult as defined as a manipulative organization which uses ideology to motivate people towards a goal which they likely would not choose if not motivated by that ideology, and not a cult as in a system of beliefs or positioning with relation to reality. Cult is one of those very tricky words like that.

Some of the other features of a cult of the first type which help distinguish it as such in my opinion are having a hierarchical system of organization, a charismatic leader, a unified ideology, and some kind of goal. I don't see any of that among Otherkin. I know of a great many people who are not involved in cults of the first type who react defensively when their beliefs are questioned, but who readily accept other beliefs so long as they are first attached to something they already accept. I'm willing to explore this further, though.
 
 
Ganesh
04:16 / 03.03.06
My theory is that is actually one of the most common experiences in the world. If anything it might be a defining trait of humanity.

That was kinda my point. It's similar to the fact that claiming, "we're not a typical boyband" is one of the defining traits of typical boybands.

Back to us and them thar sheeple.
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
05:27 / 03.03.06
I actually went through a stage from around age seven to nine where I honestly believed I was a reincarnated unicorn, fueled in large part by first sexual stirrings from seeing the film of "The Last Unicorn" and furthered by a narcissistic classmate who claimed to have inside information on such things. I "remembered" memories of unicorns from "before I was born" and would, in private, believe I'd shapeshifted into one. The whole thing was rather homoerotic, really, a way of expressing a more feminine aspect in rigidly masculine circumstances, and socializing with my peers in that matter often did then lead to nascent sexual experimentation.

That is, I feel, what much of the motivation behind the Otherkin title: a fundamental incapacity to deal with something far more mundane yet much more scary. If you define it as something detailed and yet unreal, you "control" the terms of that state; if you own up to something more familiar yet feared, you've surrendered much of those terms to others' expectations.

On the other hand, however, I think this avoidance is actually the latest iteration in similar tactics found in anthropology, most notably in the Native American "skinwalker" concept. No doubt gay and otherly identity-dissatisfied Indians, as well as those who supported them, needed to invent some sort of plausible explanation for why they ought not be driven off the nearest cliff. How better, then, to say that their behavior was as a result of possessing the spirit of a wolf or eagle? Even European concepts such as faery glamour and changelings may have arose out of similar concepts unfathomable to the medieval mind; hell, even in this day and age they're still poorly understood, by both outside observers and those experiencing it first-hand. It's just a map; if it works well enough, follow it until something better comes along.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
09:53 / 03.03.06
Zoemancer;

Out of interest, have you managed to persuade any self-identified otherkin to 'shapeshift' on camera?
 
 
illmatic
09:55 / 03.03.06
No-one is allowed to question these memories

The second of the links Q put up has a FAQ which seem open to the possibility of criticism, at least. No idea how widespread this questioning is within their community, though. Any who shows self-critque is much mroe likely to win my sympathies, at any rate.

With regards to the "shamanic" note mentioned by Zoemancer above - a question that arises for me is to what extent do Otherkin interact with and have relations with people outside of their groupings? Many nderstandings of shamanism portray shamans as people who have a relationship in terms of healer/priest to the wider community. If any of Otherkin played this kind of role - in whatever way (obviously, a bit difficult in modern industrial society!)- again, I'd be less inclined to think of what they do as delusional. If it all just exists as a internet buddybuddy club, then well...
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:45 / 03.03.06
2. They are actual mutants who maybe have different DNA and do possess some kind of supernormal abilities.

Demonstration of supernormal abilities in laboratory conditions are notoriously difficult to quantify, however investigating the genetic make-up of someone claiming to physically be Otherkin (and not simply remembering past-life experiences) would be an interesting study. Although I'm buggered if I know anyone who'd provide the funding for it (no-one ever funds the experiments I want to do, bah). Still it'd be interesting to look for specific markers in the DNA of, say, dragon-identifying Otherkin.

I have seen documentaries on vampire-identifying Otherkin who genuinely believe that drinking blood does energise them and that sunlight, whilst no more harmful physically than it would be to a "baseline", drains them and makes them tired and apathetic.

Obviously, my cynic-o-meter always swings towards it being a form of role-play rather than actual physical or spiritual mutation. But I'd be prepared to entertain the concept of hazy racial memories from pre-human days (ie dinosaurs = dragons) as one possible explanation on the list.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:04 / 03.03.06
Illmatic: I think you've got a point there. My criticism of Otherkin would be to question where the magic is? Is there actually magic going on here, or is it maladaptive, delusional make-believe internet fantasy? Because - shocking as this might seem to some parties - there is a difference. Sometimes I really think that the "fake it till you make it" approach to magic, whilst having its merits, is also really problematic because it blurs the lines in peoples' minds between what is actual potent, effective, tangible magic - and what is really just delusional, ego-gratifying masturbation in the playpen.

Is there actually magic going on in the otherkin community? Are we looking at something like Spare's concept of atavistic resurgence? Are these people consciously accessing anamistic states and using that towards some discernable aim or goal? Is it genuinely helping anybody that you can point to, or is it just feeding and contributing to a sense of urban alienation? I think that's the benchmark for me, and it applies to otherkin as much as it applies to any other branch of magical practice. To coin a phrase: Who does the grail serve?

I also think it comes across as a bit "cultish", but maybe that's not quite the right word. Whilst there is no recognisable charismatic cult leader or shared goal, there is a complicity that I find more than a bit dodgy. When the girl who thought she was a psychic vampire turned up on here last year, one thing that disturbed me was how she would make continual reference to "the community" as justification and ammunition to back up her claims. As if the fact that there was a whole bunch of people who believed in this stuff was substantial proof that there was something in it. It may have become totally normalised in certain circles, but does that make it anymore than a group delusion? I find it cultish in the sense that all of these people are totally complicit in eachothers weird fantasy life. Now, as has been illustrated in the accounts above, individual people who identify as otherkin might have wildly different reasons for taking on the identification. In some instances it might be relatively harmless, but in others it might well be destructive, harmful and pathological.

I can't honestly believe that it's a very good thing for there to be a largely uncritical support network for self-identifying "Dragons" and "Vampires" that unequivocally bolsters and reinforces this type of characteristically adolescent outsider fantasy. Maybe the problem actually is the fact that it's in all likelihood impressionable, alienated teenagers. If a common motivation behind otherkin identification is: "a fundamental incapacity to deal with something far more mundane yet much more scary" - which I reckon it probably is. Then isn't it a bit sinister that fairly confused teenagers are going to stumble across the Otherkin "community" and end up reinforcing this stuff long into adult life rather than facing and dealing with the scarier issues that might underpin the escapist fantasy? Isn't it a bit sinister that people's emotional problems and compensation behaviour gets normalised into a "lifestyle" rather than being engaged with to any degree? And isn't the whole situation ripe for exploitation by equally screwed up predatory people?

You could make the argument that the same thing applies to communities of "magicians" - and I think a lot of the time the same thing does apply. Which is why I think it's absolutely crucial to promote a culture in places like this that questions, criticises and closely examines its subject matter - and doesn't function as some sort of "safe space" where people get to delude themselves. Speaking as someone who probably believes in more strange things with absolute unshakeable faith before breakfast than most, I don't think its healthy to even put a foot into these areas without the constant scepticism, self-criticism and self-examination that can and must go alongside all serious magical exploration. It's the Pillar of Severity that balances the Pillar of Mercy, and in the frightening world of Molatar - I'm not seeing much Pillar of Severity action going on.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:10 / 03.03.06
I've just written 700 words about otherkin. How bored at work am I?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
11:16 / 03.03.06
You're clearly more drawn to this subject than your conscious mind is, as yet, either willing or able to acknowledge - Inside you, GL, there is a beautiful dragon, waiting to emerge.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:23 / 03.03.06
I always thought so.
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:27 / 03.03.06
Inside you, GL, there is a beautiful dragon, waiting to emerge.

But not, let's hope, in a style reminiscent of Alien.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:56 / 03.03.06
(Mod hat: just thought I'd hook this up to the Magic as a maladaptive coping mechanism thread, as some of the discussion there seems relevant to this topic.)
 
 
Unconditional Love
14:33 / 03.03.06
Something that gets me is the lack of poetry in life, if for a time a person deals with life by thinking they are a vampire or an ant, so be it, even a vampiric ant.

I cant stand this reduce it too wrong psychology approach.
As far as i understand it there is no right or corrective psychology.

If a certain group of people identify in this way, what is it about cultures that provoke this response, since its happening to a social group of people and not lone individuals, what sociological factors are creating this response in groups of people, it certainly isnt just one person, so why has this group and sub culture formed ? I dont know since i am not a part of it, but you wont find the answer by reducing it too human maladaptation, as if it is some how a defective response to the culture this culture was birthed in.

The same goes for the very slagged vampire culture , why have groups adapted this response, i dont know i am not part of the culture.

Life lacks poetry and romance enough, why curtail that which gives some people some hope, some dreams and perhaps a way to survive in the cultures they find themselves in.

I still want to see bright pink and orange skyscrapers.

Personally i dont see why these people should adjust there behaviour, unless they are damaging there selves and others
and i dont see that happening.

I see there culture as part of an overall popular culture with many different flavours and theres a flavour for everybody. Alienists flirtations with the alien aside, everybody has to belong somehow i guess, even if that is fitting the social identity of the outsider.
 
 
illmatic
15:01 / 03.03.06
what is it about cultures that provoke this response

That's a bit unanswerable surely? How long is a piece of string? Everyone involved is going to have had very different life histories. People seem to be questioning whether this is a coping mechanism that blocks further examination that's all.

Personally i dont see why these people should adjust there behaviour

No ones saying they should. I doubt very much they'd care what we think anyhow. If someone is happy to publicly identify as a dragon, adn run nude around the park breathing fire, I can't imagine him giving a fuck about what some random guy on a message board thinks. However, I still think what makes Barbelith such a good space is it's ability to critque things, to test claims for substansiation, and I reserve my right to do so.
 
 
illmatic
15:23 / 03.03.06
As to social changes that have brought this about, I think it's the f***ing internet, Tim Berners Lee, what have you done?
 
 
Quantum
16:37 / 03.03.06
I have a question for otherkin- what's wrong with being human?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:51 / 03.03.06
Hmmm. From the point of view of somebody who is otherkin, isn't that a bit like asking a badger "what's wrong with being a human?"
 
 
Digital Hermes
18:30 / 03.03.06
In one respect, it seems to really convey the power of fiction (or myth/legend/etc) over the human mind. That a physiologically improbable version of human is something that so many people connect with, that they want to be it(vampire, dragon, elf, wolf, etc), is actually kind of fascniating.

I'd have to weigh in and say I simply don't beleive it, though. I would allow others to maintain their beleif, though.

With the links provided above, every reference to what vampiric life is like, directly references recent films or books. All of the 'tough questions' are answered rather conveniently, such as extreme sun block to assist in keeping the pesky sun from burning you up, or getting blood from the butchers.

I think what gets my non-werewolf hackles up is connected to Quantum's question, what's wrong with being human? A powerful individual act is to recognize yourself as unique, without needing to co-opt other concepts to enhance or bolster that uniqueness. The scary element is that there is a possible danger of this other-identifing quality to go from fulfilling to insidious. To follow the beleif too strongly seems to strip away tools, (or atrophy them) for general social interaction.

In general, the warm-and-fuzzy, or dark-and-brooding that I get from the different sites and individuals is the biggest difficultly I have in taking it seriously, if anything because both of them lack what GL pointed out, any sort of critical eye or well thought-out explanations for their 'situation.'

On a bit of a tangent, did anyone ever see or read 'becoming a matrix warrior'? It struck me that the author was essentially heavily identifying (or selling to those who identify) with the Matrix. Could that sort of self-importance bolstering be possible here as well?

I'm the first to beleive in the power of fiction to affect the real, but within credibility.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
19:29 / 03.03.06
Could that sort of self-importance bolstering be possible here as well?

Well, yes, I think it's possible. Are there many (or any) Otherkin who identify with non-glam/non-cute nonhumans? Anyone who feels a deep emotional or physical connection with, say, pigs, skunks, weevils, mosquitos, slugs? Dragons, cats, vampires and so forth I can understand because they seem to embody qualities many people would like to have (and perhaps perceive that they lack) - power, grace, sexy magnificence etc.

But is there anyone out there who will wriggle up and proudly declare that they are a Worm Man?
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:50 / 03.03.06
adn run nude around the park breathing fire

Gosh, that reminds me of my college years...

But is there anyone out there who will wriggle up and proudly declare that they are a Worm Man?

Actually, this is a good point. Otherkin seem to always identify with some cool animal. Predators, mystical beasts, etc, etc. To me, it sounds a bit like people who claim to be the reincarnation of Cleopatra or Merlin: not very likely, even if you believe in reincarnation (I believe it's possible, but I don't worry about it much: soon enough we'll all find out anyway). Does anybody know of an otherkin who identifies with, say, a newt? Who claims to a were-rabbit? Why is it always a wolf, a cat, a dragon, an eagle?

Onc,e years ago, I had a very, very vivid dream about being a chinese dragon flying in the middle of a night storm. It was pretty cool, and pretty clear in my head (and diving into a cloud is quite refreshing, I'll tell you that), but to say I was a dragon in a past incarnation would be a bit much: to me, it was a fun flying dream, is all. And I do like my mundane un-cool "naked monkey" self, thanks

Here's a link I found a few years back also:

Hey, look at me, I'm a vampire!

Big deal, I'm a dragon!
 
 
zoemancer
21:24 / 03.03.06
Argggh...been busy as hell. Will jump in soon.
 
 
zoemancer
04:41 / 04.03.06
Alex's Grandma No I have not yet had the privilege of catching an Otherkin shapeshifting or "p shifting" as they call it.

As far as the DNA testing goes I have seen sites that offer DNA testing for geneology that offer the service for an affordable price. Whether or not you could find some place to actually look for other things that might be out of place or that might indicate something other than human that's another story. Anybody know any Genetic engineers?

I am beginning to wonder if it's not all just a spiritual thing. Native Amecian cultures are full of stories about shamans shapeshifting but it was more of a kind of astral projection into the body of an animal and being able to go places as that animal.

Maybe these people are being possessed by the egregores or thoughtforms of these creatures that so much psychic energy has been given to by so many people over time.

Maybe they are natural born shaman but because our culture does not provide a place for a shaman they are left to fend for themselves on the edges.

I personally do not see anything wrong with someone believing they are an elf or a woodchuck or whatever as long as they are not hurting anyone else who cares? I mean we have a subculture of people in my country called Neocons who think that they are beyond fault and happen to fancy warmongering for fun and profit. Between Otherkin and Neocon I would throw my lot in with the werewolves and vampires any day of the week.
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
06:39 / 04.03.06
Ah, Otherkin.

I hadn't heard about this up until about 2 years ago when a pagan girl I hung out with informed me of the rather odder side of her personal paradigm, which apparently went beyond herbalism (which, I gotta admit...she was damn good at and damn serious and informed about)...and into something about being some dark prince from another land, and that her epilepsy was related to some non-synch between her physical body and her previous incarnation.

I'm not really concerned if that last run on sentence made sense. Because its about as much sense as I could ever make of that subject. So...we just avoided talking about that and stuck to anime and swords.

I think that, as previous posters have mentioned (GL in particular), one of the real problems with figuring out if any Otherkin are legit or not is factoring in the signal-to-noise ratio on...well if any of them can actually practice magic, or if they're just fantasizing.

In the example above, the girl in question was VERY imaginative and went so far as to draw out what she felt her "Other" self looked like, as well as said self's various relations (reading the novels now I can't help but be reminded of Elric), and had an incredibly complex story. At the same time, however, she DID know her shit when it came to magic, especially anything involving herbs and plants, and she did give some very sound advice. So while I think there was a great deal of fantasy involved, she DID have an actual talent which was, oddly enough, unrelated to her fantasy life. I also found it interesting that she explained her seizures in terms of said "Other" self, which were in and of themselves pretty bad (she was on, IIRC, pretty strong medication for them). I'm still not sure what to make of it. I've lost touch with her, which is unfortunate because, other than the Otherkin thing which I found ever so slightly disturbing, she was a really good person to hang out with.

With the above noted, I'm wondering if Otherkin-ness is related perhaps in some way to classic psychological lycanthropy. I don't mean turning into a wolf, but the condition wherein the individual believes that they are, or can turn into, a wolf so strongly that they will, at times, act out these urges. While a large number are almost positivly just very imaginative people looking for a coping mechanism, I wonder if it might not be a community that would attract some people with heretofore undiagnosed psychological problems?

I think a certain amount of the "animal reincarnation" bit is due to the psychological and personality traits that we as humans have associated with given animals. I notice that many folks who claim to have been Egyptian temple cats or wolves tend to talk about themselves more in terms of some noble and mystical qualities than in terms of their affinity for catching mice (I honestly really do wonder if this is natural cat behavior...our cat does it, apparently without prompting, but I know other cats who were afraid of mice), marking their territory, or growling/biting/scratching/hissing at people who anger them.

Now, while I won't discount the 'animal reincarnation" theory, I WILL note that it seems to be, as previous posters have mentioned, limited to a very small stable of real animals, and a considerably wider grouping of fantastic ones. Predators are VERY common (though most often for idealized aspects that are really more human-associated traits than how the animal either actually acts or avoid explaining WHY the animal acts that way), as are birds (but not pigeons...why WOULDN'T someone want to be a pigeon? They are THE bird of the urban jungle), etc.

This sort of logic leads to comments like "He's a real bulldog" because said individual is viscious, or "Doesn't she remind you of that cat Uncle Chester used to own?" because she does her own thing and is very acidic...not because she brings people dead birds as "gifts". Because it IS a sort of association that is very common in "mundane" society, its really only natural that people would begin turning that sort of identification inwards. And if you're going to associate your personality with a wolf, or a lion, why not a dragon? Or an elf?

The elf thing, I think, bothers me more than dragons or gryphons (why in god's name would you WANT to be the reincarnation of a gryphon? Its a monster who's soul purpose was, IIRC, to EAT people!). Not because elves disturb me, but because I have yet to see an elf Otherkin who actually acts like one of the fair folk from mythology. They seem to be very big on pointy ears, badly interpreted Celtic myth, and...err...yeah. I'm also not entirely sure how people justify being reincarnations of an, apparently, immortal race. There can't be THAT many dead elves.

It's bad scholarship's what it is.

And now I'm ranting. I'll quiet down now.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
07:10 / 04.03.06
Hmmm. From the point of view of somebody who is otherkin, isn't that a bit like asking a badger "what's wrong with being a human?"

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd LOVE to hear the badger's answer to that question.
 
 
Unconditional Love
11:54 / 04.03.06
>RANT<

Whats wrong with being human? In a technology driven secular humanist culture, i can answer that in relation to a humanist cultural presupposition. People are desperately trying to escape a culture, that offers them mechanical like work, That defines them from a purely human reductionist view point, The mystery has become reduced to human psychology, Feeling is less important than function, a culture that is increasingly beginning to deny unsanctioned imagination and value conforming body image and social image.

Thank fuck people feel alienated enough to do just this, the more people that feel alienated from this social and cultural philosophy of secular humanism and its attendent market place the better.

Ill go back to my earlier remarks, To me it seems that life is losing its attendent romance and imagination, to vapid acceptable conscious forms, propagated by a philosophy that wants to make everything human.

So much so that the ecology of the planet is human, ie property of humans, That the mind has to be a human shape, and the body the peak of human physicality.

Anybody can see by looking at the environment and amount of species suffering in the world that secular humanism is an
absolute failure, secular humanism and the philosophies that live under that umbrella have failed.

What is beginning to be seen is a reaction to that. Not just in the form of otherkin, but in turning to religious structures and nessecary retreat into the dream of imagination for social and individual survival.

I dont identify as human or otherkin or zombie or whatever, given the choice of those labels that are most reflective of being a consumer capitalist, zombie comes tops, consuming other cultures, people (indirectly), and the general attendant bullshit of western culture, must consume something, words, pictures, thoughts, emotional constructs, sensory data, food. Must take something in, must shit something out, personality. Still and dead.

Fantasy and Imagination are some of the only survival mechanisms left, in such a horrific culture thats slowly but surely consuming itself and everything else in its path, not out of survival, but habit.

Humans are fucking scum, some days that rings more true than others.

>RANT<
 
 
Ganesh
12:21 / 04.03.06
Are you a badger, then?
 
 
Dead Megatron
14:00 / 04.03.06
maybe he's this Badger...

  
  

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