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Otherkin

  
  

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Glenn Close But No Cigar
21:58 / 10.12.06
Perhaps the idea that such mundane persons as Hollywood superstars and political figures could be Otherkin is directly counter to the concept of Otherkin?

Mundanity of somebody who has managed to impact on mass conciousness in highly competetive fields, vs. mundanity of a delusional depressive with a copy of html for idiots...?

Mundanity of, say, Martin Luther King or Marlon Brando vs. mundanity of Molatar?

Do we have the same copy of the OED?
 
 
Char Aina
22:11 / 10.12.06
i think ze means mundane like muggle.
y'know, the way assholes talk about people they don't feel 'get' it.

ohmigod, you like britney?! you are teh muggle!
 
 
EmberLeo
01:15 / 11.12.06
Sorry, yes, "Mundane" like "Muggle" i.e. "Ordinary" or "Pertaining to this world" as opposed to some other, more imaginative or esoteric world.

"Mundane" is the word used in Sci-Fi/Fantasy fandom (and I think SCAdians, but I know very few SCAdians who aren't fannish, so my sample is skewed) to refer to people outside that community ("non-fen"), or a slightly less offensive term used by some Ren-Faire workers to refer to "Turkeys", or "Marks", i.e. customers who don't know a Ren Faire from a County Faire, and can be depended upon to get drunk, act stupid, and spend lots of money.

--Ember--
 
 
EmberLeo
01:19 / 11.12.06
(Obviously I don't know a Faire from Fair either, but in the wrong direction. Meep!)

--Ember--
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
01:22 / 11.12.06
I quite agree - horrible term, isn't it? Horrible, horrible term. Isn't there a thread on what one might call "muggles" somewhere around here that gives that sort of thing a good kicking?

In a more general sense, I'd question the idea that celebrities are not identified as otherkin - in particular, otakin must see the entire creative teams of the fictions they are using as a basis as somehow channeling this world. On a more general level, since otherkin identities tend to be derivative, the origin points of those derivations, consciously or not, are being credited with extradimensional vision, be that Tolkein or R.A. Salvatore. And, as MC says, it seems very unlikely that celebs of various stripes are not being claimed for the cause on otherkin messageboards as we speak.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
01:34 / 11.12.06
Going back to MC's comparison with being gay, there's a side-question there about... advocacy. If you say that celebrity x is gay, there is often a suggestion there, depending on your stripe, either that that is in itself a bad thing (conservative) or that they are failing in their obligations to stand up and be counted, be activist and so on (liberal). If you say that celebrity x is otherkin - does the same thing follow? Especially since many otherkin might not themselves know that they are otherkin: my reading of the websites of vampire otherkin, in particular, often found people saying that they thought they were suffering from a mental disorder before they realised that they were vampires. It need hardly be noted that they often made this discovery after reading web sites owned by people who had undergone the same journey.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:26 / 11.12.06
I get the impression that, at least the saner end of the Otherkin spectrum, it's generally considered pretty poor form to inform someone "you are not human, you are really [species]" no matter how certain you are of their [species]-hood. Speculating on whether or not the LoTR supermodels might me sporting niftly Elven souls is one thing, telling Jane Smith next door that she's a hobbit is another.

my reading of the websites of vampire otherkin, in particular, often found people saying that they thought they were suffering from a mental disorder before they realised that they were vampires. It need hardly be noted that they often made this discovery after reading web sites owned by people who had undergone the same journey.

Yeah, ain't that a cheering thought--esp. since having been diagnosed as vampires they are less likely now to seek further aid from those mundane medical professionals who just won't unnerstaaand.

I can see this being a real problem. Personal anecdote: When I was a lot younger and had stupider friends, I got told by a couple of people that I was teh psychic vampyre (instead of just a rather emotionally needy Goth chick). The diagnosis seemed to rest largely on the fact that I had problems with bright light. When I finally got my eyes seen to, it turned out not to be the curse of Dracula but a nasty little viral infection in my face eatin my corneaz. Six months of eyedrops took care of the photophobia and no harm was done, but if I'd embraced my Darque Destinye and therefore let it slide it might not have been picked up in a routine eye exam and could have done lasting damage to my vision.
 
 
EmberLeo
09:39 / 11.12.06
Hmm, some of that kind of thing is as much a risk of mistaking a physical problem for an entirely psychological problem. At least professional psychologists (and clergy, I might add) are supposed to learn when to send somebody to a doctor. Random Otherkin websites aren't quite so dependable.

--Ember--
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:03 / 11.12.06
Precisely. One might compare it to the pro-Anorexia movement, in a way - somebody on the edge and with a problem can be funnelled through Internet community into a far more entrenched situation, without ever touching the sides - that is, bouncing off somebody like a priest or a social worker who would have the contacts and the training to refer them to a healthcare professional.
 
 
Quantum
12:47 / 11.12.06
since having been diagnosed as vampires they are less likely now to seek further aid from those mundane medical professionals who just won't unnerstaaand. MC

I was about to compare to the pro-anorexia sites too. 'You're not getting worse, you're getting better' reinforcements that are actively harmful.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:52 / 11.12.06
Bit of an extreme example (since believing that one was an Elf in a past life is not in itself injurious) but potentially similar, yeah.
 
 
Quantum
13:32 / 11.12.06
Oh sure, it's not as extreme. I was thinking also of peer group pressure generally reinforcing potentially negative behaviour and especially getting other people on board your obsession to validate your own beliefs. Like people who try and persuade you to have a fag/drink/drugs so they will feel less guilty about their own, the kind of 'Lots of us do it so it's OK' syndrome. The very extreme end of that behaviour is Aum Shinrikyo and other cults, but I think the principle is vaguely similar across the board.
For example the motive to reassure people they are not crazy but a vampyre doesn't seem to be based on trying to help them as much as it is trying to reinforce the *ahem* group delusion.
 
 
Quantum
13:36 / 11.12.06
Oh and Ember, what or who are SCAdians? And MC, I did apologise in post for the -tard suffix, I just wanted to try the word out after seeing it in that hojo link. Turns out, like Muggle, it leaves a faint taste of bile in the mouth so I shan't be breaking it out again until I next need it for a cussing match. I might start the Huggle A Muggle thread though.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:53 / 11.12.06
SCAdians - the Society for Creative Anachronism. Full-spectrum LARPers, effectively.
 
 
Quantum
14:54 / 11.12.06
Aha, I've heard of them- ta!
 
 
Haloquin
19:56 / 12.12.06
I'm assuming that people aren't intending the comment on the otherkin subculture/community (whatever the word is) as being somewhere that people find an excuse not to look at their problems to be a comment that excludes this from being a problem with any subculture? I know of several people who have read Dion Fortune's "Psychic Self Defence" and then decided that they're not depressed, they're being attacked, or drained by a psychic vampire... or people who supposedly have been "practising magic" (whatever this actually means) for many years, turn around and tell a very impressionable girl that she's being haunted, or attacked by psychic vampires (this is a common theme...) etc. Just sayin'.

"Otherkin" is an idea that is easily appropriated by people with a desire to be different, or to have something beyond the "mundane" etc. but then thats the case with many things.

In much of what I've come across in the, specifically "therianthropic"/"shapeshifter" community/subculture I've seen alot of recommendation to really think about whether you really feel an affinity with x creature, whether you truly believe it or are just after wish-fulfillment... I've also found that much of what I've read gives different meanings;

some people say/think/feel/believe* that they really are a non-human animal reincarnated in a human body**,

others that they have an affinity for that creature,

others that they love it so much they want to be like it.

This connection with an animal feels very plausible to me, I have an affinity for most feline creatures, and have worked with them in a magical context. But I have more of a problem with, say, vampires. I knew someone who thought he was*** a vampire. And he genuinely gradually looked more ill when he hadn't drunk blood in a while... but then the impression I got was that it was a personal mythology he'd built up and adopted from other people of similar beliefs. He seemed human enough to me. And I couldn't see how this helped him, it appeared to be more like an addiction of some kind than a healthy way of relating to the world...

A kinship with mythological creatures, again, I can see this working, feeling akin to dragon's, using the dragon image in "shamanic" style shapeshifting, I see no problem with, I think there's a line here between this kind of affinity, and 'having the soul' of a dragon(point '**' below applies again).

I'm wondering what the comparison between the building of a magical personae to practice magic with, and the building of a non-human personae to relate to parts of the world is. I think this has been touched on before. And I get the impression that it's considered fine by most people here, if it helps the person as opposed to giving them an opportunity to avoid the world.




(*delete as applicable)
(** I find this odd, as I'm not entirely sure that a soul could have a species... or even what a soul is supposed to be... perhaps this is another thread topic? If there's one already on this, can someone point me in the right direction please? Otherwise, is there interest in a Temple thread on the shape/nature of souls?)
(*** or maybe actually was... I'm hesitant to rule it out entirely...)
 
 
EmberLeo
21:50 / 12.12.06
(** I find this odd, as I'm not entirely sure that a soul could have a species... or even what a soul is supposed to be... perhaps this is another thread topic? If there's one already on this, can someone point me in the right direction please? Otherwise, is there interest in a Temple thread on the shape/nature of souls?)

Yeah, I'm kind of there - so what if I was a tree in a past life? That doesn't mean that I have the soul of a tree if having a human body now doesn't mean I have the soul of a human, eh?

--Ember--
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:01 / 01.04.07
I sort of think that cat-angel-elf-dragon-fairy people are doing something genuinely important, just in a really crap way. Engaged in a process of articulating--incompletely and in a deeply inept fashion--something vital about the human condition. The internal narrative, the place of myth in the Self; human as intertext between the world of legend and the world of human consensual reality. The more you look for your Inner Animal, the more species you find; an ongoing process of discovering your being through the medium of fiction.

Still a bunch of fucking wankers, but there ya go.
 
 
RustyGoldhouse
16:44 / 02.04.07
Becoming-Animal; Becoming-Intense; Becoming-Imperceptible(memories of a sorcerer 1, 2, and 3)

from: Gilles Deleuze and Felix Guattari's 1000 Plateaus -

(did someone already mention this?)
 
 
Quantum
18:14 / 02.04.07
What? That makes no sense to me.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:05 / 02.04.07
We haven't all read 1000 Plateaus dude. Have mercy.
 
 
Make me Uncomfortable
02:15 / 03.04.07
I read the first page and then leapfrogged to the last one, so excuse me if this has been related earlier.

From personal experience, when I was a teenager I definitly wished as hard as I could to be a wolf or a raven, or maybe both. So I might have been otherkin. If I had been a big internet troll back in the 90s, I probably would have found the boards and joined the Otherkin Community, but as it was I was just a lonely kid who wanted to leave his house and RUN or FLY free.

I think, in hindsight, that I was a very lonely teen, and not terribly well-exercised (thats still true), and that being secretly an animal was a way of escaping both of those bonds. I had a lot of dreams about sneaking out of my room and taking flight / running into the forest (despite living miles from the nearest forest) and just going and going.

I still have some connection to animals- I think ravens and wolves are beautiful creatures to observe. But I don't want to be one, and I don't think I am one. On the other hand though, to have the magic ju-ju to see through a ravens eyes... what a way to see the city. Gods, it'd be good.

So, uh, add another tally mark to maladaptive coping mechanism, with just a hint of proto-shamanism.
 
 
The Ghost of Tom Winter
05:33 / 03.04.07
I remember a discussion on why there are no gopher otherkins and tend to be dragons/wolves/bears etc.
Not sure if it ever got discussed but I'd like to add my own two cents hoping it hasn't been said.

I believe otherkin have a strong desire to seek personal power, from reading the boards and experiences of people dealing with otherkin it seems that most lack a certain personal power, will or strength of mind.
That being said I believe that "taking on" the form of a dragon/wolf/elf in terms of mimicry gives the believer a certain power over that "totem."
So while you see the nasty strong beasts commonly taken up as otherkin you won’t see earthworms and pigeons because they lack a certain… cultural power. Bear people are strong, dragons are wise, elves are mysterious and magical. They find the trait they want most dearly, the one they probably lack the most and mimic the animal in hopes of gaining the power of that animal.

So that’s what I think. From my study of various places around the world it seems that many humans have the ability or desire to mimic things like this but just not… like this.
 
 
Quantum
09:44 / 03.04.07
I remember a discussion on why there are no gopher otherkins and tend to be dragons/wolves/bears

Funnily enough it's exactly the same conversation roleplayers have about Were-creatures. Nobody plays a were-cow or were-weasel.
 
 
Mono
11:38 / 03.04.07
I totally want to be a were-cow.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:08 / 03.04.07
I remember a discussion on why there are no gopher otherkins and tend to be dragons/wolves/bears

Funnily enough it's exactly the same conversation roleplayers have about Were-creatures. Nobody plays a were-cow or were-weasel.

Aside, of course, from the insufferably smug "oooh, look at me, everybody, I've got a nonstandard power animal/alter/fetch/RPG character, aren't I whacky/edgy/individual" types.
 
 
Ticker
12:22 / 03.04.07
I'm not sure Otherkin are viewing their former incarnations along totem lines. As I understand it they believe they once lived as these creatures rather than aligning themselves in this current life to traits associated with them.

My use of animal totems has always been of guides and influences not that I was a specific creature. I and other people who know me will discuss my predator nature symbolicly using animal metaphors. What I find personally interesting about the werewolf is often this Mythic beastie is not a total conversion to the animal form of a wolf but in the liminial in-between in-betwixt state. It doesn't resolve into having a place but rather exists as an outsider. I'm curious if the entire Otherkin process isn't similar in effect...

Oh and the spouse's animal totems are not in the list of typical power animals. One's kind of gross, icky, and not in a sexy way and the other tends to putter around gardens being cute, making funny noises, and eating slugs.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:29 / 03.04.07
I'm not sure Otherkin are viewing their former incarnations along totem lines. As I understand it they believe they once lived as these creatures rather than aligning themselves in this current life to traits associated with them.

Pretty much the size of it, yeah. It's an important distinction to make.

Oh and the spouse's animal totems are not in the list of typical power animals.

I hear ya. I've been working with Armadillo since I was 17 (after I got over my initial WTF Armadillo? reaction. Lots of pointless journeying because I thought it had to be a mistake and kept looking around for the cool happenin' animal guide like all the other kids had). It's not the nonstandardness I'm poking at, it's calculated nonstandardness with a side order of smug.
 
 
Quantum
12:33 / 03.04.07
I've a kind of Badger, which sounds similarly unsexy. But I think he's cool, slugs are nutritious and stripes make you go faster.
Shit- the insufferably smug "oooh, look at me, everybody, I've got a nonstandard power animal I'm one of those! And I once played a werehamster! Eek!

Seriously though, I know what you mean. IMO it's echoed in the people whose past lives *weren't* Cleopatra, but which somehow come across as an equally contrived wish fulfilment, the idyllic pastoral farmer's wife or Spartan soldier or whatever.
 
 
Quantum
12:51 / 03.04.07
WTF Armadillo? I hear ya. I had a similar experience with dream guides (on a smaller scale).
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:57 / 03.04.07
Seriously. I just kept on going back and going over the same trancework excercise again and again, for months, looking for a hawk or a fox or something I could relate to. Nothin' but Armadillos. Some nine-banded, but mostly pichiciegos. In the end I learned to appreciate Armadillo and work with him, but I made the process a lot more difficult than it needed to be.
 
 
Ticker
13:17 / 03.04.07
This is probably threadrot and should go elsewhere but my use of totems changed dramaticly once I started getting them inked on.

Ok back to Otherkin...

My imagination is a magical tool I use to interact with the Imagination and through storytelling I create mythic spaces. These are moments of suspended disbelief and magical reality and often I use one particular totem-self as a guide in these moments (I don't have the major ones tattoo'd on, interestingly enough). Anyhow, when I'm doing this magic through the use of the story I merge with this totem-self to navigate this particular landscape. If you asked me in that moment what I was I would probably reply with my totem-self. There's no past life justification for this process rather it's a tool I use to do this particular work and it probably is sourced from exposure to myths and cultural significance. When this work is done I put this part away sometimes more successfully than others. It's a part of my psyche I've come to view as distinct to make handling it more effective.

So for me it's a mostly well adaptive tool and coping mechanism. I've also talked with other people who do this sort of work and we all tend to have various persona or totem selves that drive in particular states of consciousness during magical work.

Where the major difference lies methinks between this approach and Otherkin is specificlly the lineage of reincarnation. Not in the magical work or in the 'it makes life hard 'cause I'm a freak' as I think both have some of each happening. To be clear I suspect it's the point of origin as being outside of one's imagination and self creation that makes it difficult to keep it in check. If you know these are tools you are creating you can evalute them more easily than if your belief system views them as absolutes.
 
 
Quantum
13:33 / 03.04.07
it's the point of origin...

I think so too. The locus of control in Psychspeak.

Although this is only tangential, unusual animals in magic is relevent to a deck a relative of mine has just finished- check out the Tarot Of The Slugs. Spesh'ly funny if you're into Tarot.
 
 
Ticker
13:47 / 03.04.07
That's the most awesomest deck I've ever seen.
 
 
Unconditional Love
14:27 / 03.04.07
Disassociative Identity Disorder

From the above.

"Multiple personalities are formed through dissociation. Dissociation occurs when an individual splits with their primary personality (also known as the "host" personality) and develops a secondary personality in their subconscious. The dissociative splitting of the self into two or more personalities usually occurs in childhood due to extreme physical, sexual and/or psychological abuse. In most cases the existence of Disassociative Identity Disorder represents an attempt by the child to deal with overwhelmingly negative events in their life. The ongoing abuse experienced by the child somehow increases their capacity to detach themselves, compartmentalizing life’s trauma into autonomous units rather than a blended whole. When a particularly abusive experience becomes unbearable the highly hypnotizable child simply exercises their capacity for self-hypnosis, to go to sleep, as it were, and allow another person to emerge who can handle the situation better. In many ways the altered personality of abused children resemble the imaginary friends that "normal" children describe—externalized versions of cartoon figures, superheroes or animals; however, what begins as a protective fantasy is kept within until the individual with Disassociative Identity Disorder becomes that character."

The last few sentences caught my attention.
 
  

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