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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

The Apprentice series 2

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Hattie's Kitchen

11:57 / 08.02.06

I know it's a bit early but I'm so happy this programme is making a return. Starts on 22nd of Feb. I can't wait, frankly. There's no candidate biographies up yet, but this lot look even more cringeworthy than last year's contestants, although Paul and Saira will take some beating. Ben and Sharon already look quite punchable to me, and I hope we get to see more Rachel-stylee dancing. Squee.

12:23 / 08.02.06

I don't think I actually wanted more apprentice... Spy, I wanted more of, Crisis Command, I enjoyed (but can easily see why it is unlikely to be repeated, let alone recomissioned seeing as how it regularly postulated the effects of unknown disasters and terrorist attacks on the Streets of Britain...)

But we shall see if i end up getting roped into it...

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:21 / 08.02.06

And that, sleaze, is why YOU'RE FIRED.

13:44 / 08.02.06

You and your hatesex addiction, fly...

16:27 / 08.02.06

YOU'RE FIRED!!!!!111!!!

Yay! Yay! And thrice yay!

16:31 / 08.02.06

My baby's due tree days after the show starts.

Alan Sugar will be his role model!

Hattie's Kitchen

06:48 / 09.02.06

Shit on a blanket!

20:51 / 22.02.06

First episode tonight and it didn't disappoint. How much was unfavourable editing, I'm not sure, but I was itching to give Syed a smack by the end.

I can see why Sir Al made the right decision for him and his organisation but he did seem a remarkably upbeat chap, Ben. Very centred and fair in the post firing interview with Adrian Chiles. Had great difficulty saying "Yes" or "No" though, not when a couple of explanatory paragraphs could be inserted into the space.

Not sure where the woman with the bad perm was coming from. Sher started shouting about accusations that ther women had used their feminine charms to get ahead in business, flirting with the New Covent Garden vendors. I found the sexualised hard sell the men on the street were getting to try to engender sales more disturbing. I don't think they were wrong to do it but I think it was silly to deny they had been doing it and to complain that it was noted.

It did sadden me to realise that, never in my life, shall I live in a house like the one next door to Big Al's in Millionaire's Row, that the candidates live in. I wouldn't even have to leave it to go on holiday, just live in a different wing for a week.

Regrettable Juvenilia

21:15 / 22.02.06

First episode seemed like a hyper-accelerated version of the entire last series in terms of how quickly a significant number of the candidates either a) became inappropriately emotional and shouty, b) turned on each other with bare-faced self-interest, or c) both. I expect (and the next weeek preview suggests) that the boys will now turn on each other like wild dogs, whilst the girls' stated desire to enjoy the win and move on will fail spectacularly - cue mad jumping woman jumping and shouting and crying and GAH.

I bet Salan was sad to only be able to fire one person at a time.

21:18 / 22.02.06

Great first episode. Syed is punchable alright but makes great telly. The whole 'A-Team' section was hilarious. They should have gone for that instead of the vaguely latin sounding name they decided on. Ben just looked like he was going to start crying at any moment. I think he just had one of those faces.

Did anyone catch the program that was afterwards? 'At Work with the Armstrongs'. Now that was truly exellent tv. It's almost definatly a spoof but i'm not 100% If it is it's damn well acted and scripted. If it's not a spoof but an actual docu-drama. Well, that just makes me happy to be alive in the world!

21:24 / 22.02.06

I bet Salan was sad to only be able to fire one person at a time.

Let's hope he takes a leaf out of Donald's book, who this last season on the US version fired, IIRC, 4 people at the same time in one particular episode.

Mad shouty teary woman is ever so irksome isn't she? Not sure I want her to go just yet though, so far her team mates seem to have managed by just pretending she's not there but surely, hopefully, that won't last...

22:41 / 22.02.06

Mad shouty teary woman is ever so irksome isn't she?
Well, yes and no. She did seem to have some sort of political point but unfortunately had no idea what it was. Could make for some fun viewing.

Hattie's Kitchen

07:27 / 23.02.06

Curly-permed Chrissie Watts-lookalike is deserving of a good slap - her childish jumping up and down and screaming every 2 minutes is very grating. I can imagine the other girls will distance themselves from her very soon. It's like she has Tourettes. I was cringing when she started crying in the boardroom. Way to impress Siralan.

I can't really understand why the girls were criticised for their selling technique - surely blagging fruit for the lowest price possible (or free) and selling it at a profit was what the task was about? SAS has a very selective memory when it comes to using underhand tactics, there was plenty of that from the boys' team last year and they were never called on it.

Saed is like the demon spawn of Paul and Saira from last year. How funny was the "A-Team" bit?

Brilliant first episode. My Wednesday nights for the next 11 weeks are now booked solid.

08:02 / 23.02.06

Well, I wasn't too keen on the girls selling what could well have been off fruit, but these are the joys of capitalism.

I thought Salan was a little hard on everyoneisentirelyresponsiblefortheiractionsbythewayIamatory-Ben, and can't help thinking that the only reason Syed is still around is because of the ratings. The guy seems to have the emotional and intellectual maturity of a ten-year-old, and, from what we saw at least, added very little value. In fact, he appeared to be actively disruptive.

And that preamble that describes the contestants as the brightest stars of the business world is starting to wear very thin. I'm sorry, but the Syeds and Jumpy Yay Yay Womans of this world are not the hottest young talent, what they are is good TV. Obviously no-one's going to admit to that, bu-ut...

10:14 / 23.02.06

Ben was a knob, pure and simple. As soon as he put himself forward for learder, I said "that's it, he's out," it was so obvious. What made me really laugh was when the men were brainstorming names and he goes "We need a name that doesn't really mean anything, but sounds cool and up-to-date,". So, you're saying your company should present itself as trendy, together and... devoid of any meaning?

Crazyjumpycryingwoman was scary. I work with some people like that, and she had my hackles up straight away, especially the wobbling in front on Salan (thanks for that moniker, btw, I'm keeping it). Thing is, she had no point and no real defense. If a man tried the flirting, rubbing giggling pressure tactic with a female supplier (on-camera no less), they'd be truly fucked, it should be the same for the women too. And the melons thing? Yeah, well... bit sad really.

10:39 / 23.02.06

IMO, It's not that Ben isn't a knob, it's that Syed's worse.

So, are saying that in business flirty=bad? I find it hard to get my head round that idea, and suspect that it has its basis (a lot of the time) in misogynist thinking.

10:55 / 23.02.06

Not saying your thinking's misogynist, just saying.

11:44 / 23.02.06

There's no problem with flirting. I like it, it makes work fun, but it's that forceful, sexualised attempt to coerce that I find distasteful. There was one scene with the women accosting a fella who was walking backwards, slowly. One of the ladies (don't remember which, and I paraphrase) laughed, and said "He's trying to get away, there's no use in that!".

This is quite predatory, and seemed to me that if it were a man doing that to a woman, it would look decidedly not-cool. Women will complain (rightly) about double-standards in many areas of business, and yet here they are with behaviour that would get most men up on sexual-harrassment charges (an exaggeration, but I can't deny the way that scene was looking).

Although, why can't women use these undeniable skills in the business environment? Think of the amount of money they could make if they could make full use of their sex. Straight men are suckers for a pair of tits, why not get 'em out and see how much we'll pay for a manky melon then? The girls should have gone the whole hog, and got stippers selling the goods for them (as some of those women were a bit rough, and you wouldn't make much money with that face).

Or maybe not.

Hattie's Kitchen

11:53 / 23.02.06

Funnily enough, I don't recall any of the accosted helpless men actually complaining about marauding gangs of female fruit and veg sellers flaunting their wares, and recoiling in horror at being flirted with.

They were selling fruit and veg on the street FFS. Have you ever listened to the things some male market traders come out with? I seriously doubt that the women would even think about using blatantly flirty behaviour in a boardroom or office environment. This task was an out-and-out street sales task and they cleaned up. Good on 'em, I say.

11:56 / 23.02.06

Did anyone see the after-show on BBC3, featuring among others Saira from last year? It was bad enough that she still seems to be under the illusion that she and Siralan have some sort of special psychik relationship, but for her to then go on and lecture this week's failed contestant about the realities of business... YOU LOST THE F***ING SHOW, YOU IDIOT. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BUSINESS. I'M IN THE TWILIGHT HOME FOR THE CRIMINALLY BEWILDERED AND I'VE FORGOTTEN MORE ABOUT F***ING BUSINESS THAN YOU'LL EVER KNOW, YOU CLOWN OF A WOMAN. PLEASE DIE IMMEDIATELY.

(Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest.)

12:11 / 23.02.06

Funnily enough, I don't recall any of the accosted helpless men actually complaining about marauding gangs of female fruit and veg sellers

Were they asked? And yeah, I seriously doubt they really cared, what with the being on telly and the cameras and stuff, but I still say it's a fairly crap way of doing business and makes it easier for people to pick holes in your way of doing business in the future. That and the point that Salan picked up on about the fruit being dodgy or nearly so, and I think the girls just scraped a win there, and like Syed, I think Alan has his eyes on them too.

12:14 / 23.02.06

That said, I thought the girls' "What would you pay for this?" strategy was inspired, and their still a lot less annoying than Saira's shameless mugging last series...

12:16 / 23.02.06

Funnily enough, I don't remember any of the accosted helpless men actually complaining

Well not in the street market anyway, but I seem to remember one of the traders looking a bit uncomfortable as the team tried to get hold of their nth box of free fruit. There seemed to be a suggestion that they were taking advantage. And then there was the curled lip of Ms 'sub-standard product' when it looked like she wasn't going to get her way... Quite hard, I'd imagine, to really speak your mind about this kind of thing when you know you're being filmed for a (relatively) well-known TV show, also.

Tryphena Absent

12:18 / 23.02.06

I actually agree with John. I didn't have a problem with the fruit they bought, one of the women clearly threw quite a few pieces out. I didn't have a problem with the flirting because anyone can do that, I did have a problem with the way they were using their bodies and I agree that occasionally it bordered on harrasment.

I've worked in pubs where the chefs got away with making all kinds of comments about the waitresses. I would never let a market trader get away with objectifying me, to see women actively do it to themselves made me very angry.

12:41 / 23.02.06

What's making me uncomfortable is that men often use intimidation and coercion to get their own way in business but usually it remains invisible in that it is socially acceptable, but the minute women use pretty much any tactic (aggresive flirtation is but one example) that involves coercion it becomes an issue for discussion.

The Today Programme even ran a feature on flirtation and business t'other day, after Salan's feelings about the practice became public. As usual for that sort of article it made embarrassing listening.

12:47 / 23.02.06

Also, I think the criticism of women using their sexuality to their advantage at work usually doesn't run along the lines you mention, Nina. Rather I suspect it has it's roots in the popular notion that female sexuality is dangerous and should be suppressed.

Hattie's Kitchen

12:51 / 23.02.06

Agreed Boboss. Apparently it's fine for a group of men to badger a woman on the street to pay £2.50 for a single apple, but God forbid that a woman should decide to use her sexuality in an assertive way.

It's this "yeah, I know it's bad when men do it, but when women do it it's WORSE" bollocks that irritates me.

13:16 / 23.02.06

Newsnight did a similar piece to Today last night, following the show. That was embarrassing too.

With regards to men often use intimidation and coercion to get their own way in business but usually it remains invisible in that it is socially acceptable - examples please? Is it not okay to criticise women, becuase men are bad in their own ways too? I was discussing the issue presented in the programme, which was the women's behavhiour, not 'general male business behaviour', if there is such a thing.

If a man is acting intimidating like that in my company, I would try to pull him up on it (have done in the past), as it is unaccaptable behaviour. But then you're opening cans of worms about intent vs. appearances, and if the men mean to be intimidating (or the women, flirty) or if it just appears that way to the audience. Of course, some men are total arseholes, just like some women are slags. Doesn't mean that every member of the gender is the same, or has the same approaches to business.

Hattie's Kitchen

13:23 / 23.02.06

just like some women are slags

Misogynistic much?

Hattie's Kitchen

13:27 / 23.02.06

By which I mean, John, could you explain your use of the word "slag"?

13:39 / 23.02.06

The thing is, I could give you examples, but, frankly, we'd be here all day, because it happens all the bloody time. Remember intimidation and coercion can be subtle beasts, and I'm specifically not talking about times where it would be impossible not to notice such behaviour. The *point* that I am making is that when men exhibit that kind of behaviour is often (not *always*) goes unnoticed because it is considered normal.

I also think you should pay attention to what I am saying here: but the minute women use pretty much any tactic (aggresive flirtation is but one example) that involves coercion it becomes an issue for discussion. The words "any tactic" are key.

Now as to whether using your sexuality as a business tool is bad practice, well, I'm not sure you could construct a damining argument along business lines, but perhaps socially it's not the best way of doing things, but more for the reasons that Nina mentioned than the reasons which are put about on shows like the Today programme.

As for some women being slags, you are aware that this is Barbelith? You do know that that kind of unexamined language is totally fucking unacceptable. If not I suggest that you actually have a read around this board and acquaint yourself with concepts such as misogyny.

14:05 / 23.02.06

*bangs head on desk* yes, I hate all women. Are you a woman? I hate you. I hate my mum, who raised me, fed me, taught me right from wrong. I hate my partner. I hate my colleagues. I hate half the world. Mr Misogynistic in the flesh.

Okay, apologies for the language. I forgot people here are more sensitive than in real life. Apologies. I love women. I will not try to defend my language here at the moment, as I'm busy, and I know that I would just fuck up my language and get stuck into a massive arguement. So I'm not going to. I didn't say all women are slags, that would be wrong.

Let me put it this way - some men are violent thugs. Some men smell like prawns. Some men are slags. Is this offensive to men? No.

Again though, this is the worng place for that language. I'll save it for a place where it's easier to tell what I mean from the way that I say something. Again, I'm really sorry.

14:06 / 23.02.06

BTW, if I offended anyone with the last post - I re-wrote 4 times, give me a break, please.

14:22 / 23.02.06

Of course calling men slags isn't as offensive as calling women slags. Why? Because the word slag isn't tied into how we understand and objectify male sexuality, and more specifically men as a sex. I put it to you that the reverse is true of women.

The thing is, John, I don't actually think you're an idiot and I don't think you are incapable of understanding the problems people have with this kind of language. Prove me right.

14:27 / 23.02.06

Also, in your time on the board haven't you picked up on the fact that when people suggest that others are being misogynistic they do not mean that they are always, and will forever be, a woman haters, just that they demonstrating misogynistic behaviour.

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