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Is something wrong with Barbelith?

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Tryphena Absent

12:20 / 26.10.05

You don't understand the pain of the crusher.

Sniv

12:29 / 26.10.05

What's wrong with Barbelith? All this! (he said, pointing to the posts above him).

The vary vast majority of the negative comments about POP's Trek post smack of intellectual fascism (that is, being cruel about how 'smart/interesting' someone is, not being a fascist in your mind - just covering myself), and it's abhorrent.

Firstly, wasn't the internet invented to talk about Star Trek? And secondly, so what? If you have no interest in that topic, don't post on it or read it. As Stoatie mentioned: It'll either sink or become funny, and some people already seem to think it worth commenting on.

Also, I did find some of the replies initial post to be pretty passive-agressive, silly (not in the good way) and contrary-for-the-hell-of-it, which is a strange way for 'intelligent' people to treat wayward newbs.

Perhaps values like intelligence and relevance should be codified, if that's the response that more light-hearted posts get.

Tryphena Absent

12:54 / 26.10.05

1) Stoatie does not like that thread, he is tolerating it.

2)That thread has no scope. It is about one, confined subject that is really a conversation topic and it uses language that some people don't like all that much.

3)The next person to use the word fascism in an accusatory tone because some people don't like a thread (and are expressing that in the exact same way that you're criticising them nitface) and apparently dislike is fascism is getting five dictionary definitions and an essay in their face.

Ganesh

12:54 / 26.10.05

KJ, I believe people are talking about the thread topic being limited, rather than the individual who posted the thread. Vital difference, one worth considering when throwing around accusations of FACISCM!1!!

But yes, there's a vast Internet out there, full of boards much less moderated than this one - some dedicated entirely to discussions of Star Trek! Consequently, we don't have to be those boards, and can choose to operate differently.

Like Nina, I don't have a particular problem with that thread.

Cat Chant

12:56 / 26.10.05

Something Xoc said (in this post:

it's easy to use language in a way that is offensive and not be aware of it until someone makes you aware of it. And when they do, you either thank them for wising you up, or you disagree, respectfully.

should go in the new Terms & Conditions.

I also just wanted to link to this exchange about the use of the word 'mulatto' between me and Matt, because this thread has more negative examples than positive, but I was made really happy by this: just a quick "Some people find that term offensive," followed by a quick "Sorry, didn't realize, won't do it again."

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:01 / 26.10.05

To be honest, i'm more concerened that the lurking then posting a thread like the aforementioned says more about the current perceived quality/state of Barbelith than the poster in question.

My point.

Ganesh

13:04 / 26.10.05

Also, I did find some of the replies initial post to be pretty passive-agressive, silly (not in the good way) and contrary-for-the-hell-of-it, which is a strange way for 'intelligent' people to treat wayward newbs.

Or perhaps a strange way for you to interpret people's replies (given that you have no discernable way of climbing into their heads and working out whether their motives are more substantial/complex than for-the-hell-of-it), depending on where one is standing.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:04 / 26.10.05

The vary vast majority of the negative comments about POP's Trek post smack of intellectual fascism (that is, being cruel about how 'smart/interesting' someone is, not being a fascist in your mind - just covering myself), and it's abhorrent.

Firstly, wasn't the internet invented to talk about Star Trek? And secondly, so what? If you have no interest in that topic, don't post on it or read it.

And if your ideal message board is somewhere where people are happy that the general level of discussion is, in your own words, "W3sl3y sucks!!! Jake ru7z0rz!!1! lol!!!", and where any attempt to raise the tone is seen as "intellectual fascism", then don't post or read Barbelith.

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

13:05 / 26.10.05

Good Oh.

Sniv

13:06 / 26.10.05

Nina - I never said Stoatie liked the thread, just that he seemed (to me) to defend its right to exist.

If the thread has no scope, it will as Stoatie suggested, disappear fairly quickly, so I don't quite see what the fuss is. It'll flash in the pan, then go. There's hundreds of other posts with such limited scope on the 'lith, why is this one being singled out?

And apologies for use of the F-word (and not the one that ends in 'uck'), won't do it again, 'less I'm talking about Mussolini or something =).

Evil Scientist

13:06 / 26.10.05

Intellectual facism? Not only a vaguely offensive accusation in itself, but also utterly inaccurate. Those who've criticised the thread have done so on the grounds that it's not really a threadworthy topic.

Instead of trying to defend the thread (which currently IS limited in it's scope) perhaps you could think of constructive ways to continue the discussion out of pointless fanboy geeking and into the deeper waters of a more well-thought out theme.

I have posted my suggestion over on the thread itself.

Sniv

13:10 / 26.10.05

Petey - sorry, how many times are you going to tell me to post somewhere else before you give up?

Maybe I should flag up every joke that I post...

Ganesh

13:12 / 26.10.05

If the thread has no scope, it will as Stoatie suggested, disappear fairly quickly, so I don't quite see what the fuss is. It'll flash in the pan, then go. There's hundreds of other posts with such limited scope on the 'lith, why is this one being singled out?

As far as I can see, one poster brought it up here, and a handful more commented - mostly neutrally or faintly in defence of the thread. There then followed a couple of posts of related silliness which appeared to be petering out when you blundered in with accusations of facism and revived things.

That's why we're still discussing it. Well done you.

Sniv

13:14 / 26.10.05

Sorry.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:16 / 26.10.05

Petey - sorry, how many times are you going to tell me to post somewhere else before you give up?

I was merely applying your own advice to you, in the (dim) hope that you might realise how worthless and stupid the comment "if you don't like it, don't read it" always is.

Tryphena Absent

13:21 / 26.10.05

sorry, how many times are you going to tell me to post somewhere else before you give up?

If you use phrases as absurdly overblown as intellectual fascism in a thread like this than why are you posting here? You're obviously all set up to over-react to anything and everything. Petey's suggestion is a perfectly valid response to your comments.

Sniv

13:21 / 26.10.05

Petey - how is that worthless and stupid? I've always found it very common-sense, and something that perhaps everybody (in the world, not here) can learn something from. Sometimes it just isn't worth getting wound up about something silly, at least, that's what I've found. Some things though are important enough to talk through, obviously, it just depends on how much it means to you.

Tryphena Absent

13:23 / 26.10.05

Oh jesus mother of mary. Can you really not work out what's wrong with "turn a blind eye"?

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:25 / 26.10.05

Kaizer John. Yes. We just ignore some things and go elsewhere. Other things we talk about, and try to change or influence. Do you see where I'm going with this?

Sniv

13:26 / 26.10.05

Nina - that's not what I said! I said, I've you don't care that much, then why bother? That's very different from "turn a blind eye".

Sniv

13:34 / 26.10.05

Petey- you're trying to we've spent long enough arguing here and should make up and go chat about how awesome stuff can be? no?? =P

Tryphena Absent

13:41 / 26.10.05

If you have no interest in that topic, don't post on it or read it is the equivalent of turn a blind eye.

Tryphena Absent

13:42 / 26.10.05

It's also unworkable when we have a distributed moderation system.

Char Aina

14:10 / 26.10.05

don't post or read Barbelith

please dont keep saying that,dude.
it doesnt come across as a clever way of pointing out flaws in the turn a blind eye rhetoric. it comes across as you telling folks to fuck off outta your message board.
perhaps you are laughing as you type, or giving us all a wink we cant see, but it just seems unnecessarily mean.
go to russia, etc.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:21 / 26.10.05

toksik, don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not sure I'm going to take advice from someone who recently suggest we let The Knowledge back onto the board.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

14:27 / 26.10.05

Argh! EVERYONE STOP TALKING!!!1!

Char Aina

14:30 / 26.10.05

that is not what i suggested at all.
in addition,i have altered my position since posting.
what i suggested was that we let himspeak until such a time as he can be thrown back off,and i have since decided i was ill advised and ignorant of the fullfacts.
i asked tom if he wanted me to excise the posts, and he said no.
i am working on an apology to add to the top of the first post this afternoon, incidentally.

but hey.
i feel like perhaps you should examine the validity of the advice rather than the percieved validity of the advisor.

i dont think we should let the knowledge back in, no.
i dont think that is the same as saying 'if you dont like it, you know where the door is'.
knodge was banned, dude.
in contrast,this guy just wants to talk about star trek.

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

14:32 / 26.10.05

If you have no interest in that topic, don't post on it or read it is the equivalent of turn a blind eye.

Of course it isn't, turning a blind eye implies that you are letting something or someone 'off the hook' for something. It doesn't imply having no interest at all in what's going on, in this case Star Trek babble.

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

14:35 / 26.10.05

Oh christ no, i'm becoming what I think is wrong with Barbelith. Off to get the gun!

Tryphena Absent

14:39 / 26.10.05

Yes it is, people were discussing the topic as very narrow and not very good and Kaizer's response was that those people should ignore the quality of the topic. Seems like turn a blind eye to me Indiana.

Char Aina

14:40 / 26.10.05

thank you to flyboy for deleting the offensive post that used to be before the one he left standing.
no thank you for posting it in the first place and for not saying sorry when he realised it was off.

i have a PM inbox, fly.

Tryphena Absent

14:48 / 26.10.05

Argh! EVERYONE STOP TALKING!!!1!

By the way don't stop talking. This thread is wuss-tacular.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:49 / 26.10.05

i have a PM inbox, fly.

But not, it would appear, a caps lock button.

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

14:52 / 26.10.05

Ssshhhh.

Continue...

Char Aina

14:54 / 26.10.05

APOLOGY ACCEPTED.

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