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Calling all Barbe-parents...

 
  

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Spaniel
19:06 / 25.10.06
What's your thinking, Grant? I assume you've tackled this stuff.

I know what you're saying, Pro, and I can see some really good things coming out of the nursery experience, but I'm also conscious that the developmental advice I've read states that the more time you can spend with your child the better*, and not being in your shoes - comfortable in the knowledge that my child is doing great after three long years - I can't help but worry a bit. I know it's (to some extent) irrational and I know we can only do what we can, but I'm still hoping to find some way to keep nursery time down to a minimum.

I should point out that we are keen on finding ways for The Boy to socialise outside of a nursery context, and that we've got some solid ideas in that area.


*And that kinda fits with what my gut's telling me
 
 
grant
19:14 / 25.10.06
Full days were pretty damn long for my daughter, and I think the memory of the time she was the last kid at the center because I was late from work will stay with me for the rest of my life.

Not happy.

Half-days, though, seemed fine.
 
 
Spaniel
19:16 / 25.10.06
Lot's of helpful calming advice there, Tara. Thanks.

Out of interest, do you think your boys help each other to feel secure in a nursery context? Apparently MARRIAGE and I barely acknowledged each other's existence for the first couple of years, so my experience as a twin might suggest otherwise, although it is possible that each other's presence was reassuring on a subconscious level.
 
 
redtara
19:17 / 25.10.06
Has your partner any ideas about how she would like to work, in whole or part days, Boboss?
 
 
Spaniel
19:18 / 25.10.06
Half-days, though, seemed fine.

Horses and courses, I suppose.
 
 
Spaniel
19:21 / 25.10.06
She's been thinking half days but it'll depend, at least to some extent, on where her employers can fit her in.
 
 
grant
15:17 / 26.10.06
I think in my case part of the deal was that my daughter had lots of trouble around sleep to begin with, so nap time was a little rough. That's just a guess. I suspect she simply didn't like waking up somewhere that wasn't her room -- not at first, anyway.
 
 
Spaniel
16:53 / 26.10.06
Ah, I can see mine having the same problem
 
 
Spaniel
17:51 / 26.11.06
Now then, toys, can you have too many of 'em?

I ask because our livingroom is littered with various playthings and I worry that we're encouraging the Bosun to have a limited attention span. Anyone know of any studies or anecdotes or snippets of personal experience that could help guide me here? I've tried searching the web but have come up with nothing particularly helpful.
 
 
Olulabelle
20:06 / 26.11.06
I think children can get toy overload, especially at Christmas! If your house is overflowing (as all first babies houses are, due to parent and relative enthusiasm) then you should start rotating toys. I used to do this. Just divide them into three boxes or whatever and then rotate them every couple of weeks or every week or whatever you think. I think rotating once a week is fun.

At Christmas I used to save some presents to open on Boxing Day and even the week after.

When TLB was 6 months we had to drive all the way to the South of France, so we bought a whole bundle of new toys for the car journey and doled themout one an hour. It really worked. He was a diamond all the way.

One top toy tip I have is that babies tend to prefer adult things to toys - keys are a very good example. I made up a rummage box of safe adult things - some corks on a string, an old bunch of keys, a spoon or two, a toothbrush, a plastic ruler, a little compact mirror in a sturdy case - things like that and it was TLB's favourite toy of all for ages, for a really, really long time. You can add and take away things from the box too, which makes it more interesting. It's also wicked fun to make up - I really enjoyed doing it.

I also designated one cupboard in the kitchen a TLB cupboard (all the rest were childlocked) and in the cupboard he was allowed to go in we had pans and pots and plastic bowls and wooden spoons which he was allowed to get out and play with. Then when I was cooking he would just sit on the floor happily being loud with a pan lid and a spoon, not upset that I was busy doing something else.

I also think that, depending on whether you have the time, not removing everything in finger touching range is a good idea. Obviously remove the really precious things, but we left some breakable things out and just learnt to distract and explain why he shouldn't touch. That way your children learn there are some things that are precious, but they also learn that it's ok to look and that those things shouldn't be scary to be around. TLB (touch wood) never breaks anything.

Oh, oh and always say "Carry the cup carefully"! It's obvious but you should never put negative pictures in your child's mind. If you say, "Don't drop the cup." then they get a mental image of themself dropping the cup, and then of course they drop the cup. If you say, "Carry the cup carefully." that's what they see themself doing and so they do.

Tangent, sorry. But helpful I hope.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
19:06 / 27.11.06
I wish you were my mum.
 
 
Olulabelle
18:13 / 30.11.06
I think that's possibly the nicest thing anyone has said to me in a long while!
 
 
grant
19:23 / 30.11.06
He'll be sending dad around shortly. With a net.
 
 
Spaniel
10:45 / 12.02.07
We tried the boy on tomato sauce for the fifth time last night, and, as ever, he rejected it quick smart. Even the addition of cream cheese didn't help sweeten the pill.

So far so normal. We didn't expect him to take it, but as diligent parents we feel duty bound to try him on flavours he's previously spurned. This time, however, I noticed something odd: within ten minutes of eating a tiny bit of the sauce he was coughing hard and continuously. At first I thought it was just his last cold popping back to say hi, but now I'm not so sure. The Bosun is often quite sniffley, but as he's so young I'd always put it down to his developing immune system sorting itself out, I have subsequently come up with a complimentary and/or alternative explanation: he's allergic to tomatoes.

According to what I've read, the symptoms he exhibits - mucus, coughing, a rash round his mouth - are all common to tomato allergies. Add that to the fact that his Grandmother is allergic to the fruit, and that allergies often are hereditary (as I understand it), and it seems like a viable explanation.

The thing is, while he doesn't like the cooked variety, he loves raw sweet tomatoes and is given them regularly, so if it turns out that he does have an allergy we've been making life that much more difficult for him for quite a few weeks now, and as a consequence I'm feeling like the shit father. Slightly irrational, I know, but, hey, parenting tends to bring that stuff out, doesn't it.

Anyway, we're gonna try and get him tested this week, and we're gonna steer well clear of the tomatoes in the meantime.
Any of you lot had any experiences with allergies?
 
 
Papess
11:36 / 12.02.07
Aw, miskin!

Boboss, I haven't had experience myself with allergies, not with my son. I have some obscure allergy that doesn't really effect my everyday life, and I only recently developed an allergy for MSG, which just means I have to be careful about processed foods, which I am, anyway.

Speaking of process, I suppose there is something about processed tomatoes Bosun doesn't like. There is a marked difference between the two, but cooking is supposed to make them easier to absorb, however, killing the vitamin C level in the process. Is it possible to be allergic to something in one form and not another?

I also want to say that you shouldn't feel like such a bad father, Boboss. It is not like Bosun could have told you he was allergic! There is just no way for you to know everything all the time, and now that you know better, you will act accordingly. It's all any parent can do short of a vulcan mind-meld.

From what I can tell you are a fine father, Boboss.
Chin up!
 
 
electric monk
12:06 / 12.02.07
Slightly irrational, I know, but, hey, parenting tends to bring that stuff out, doesn't it.

Yeah, it does. Don't let it get to you, tho. From what I read here, you are doing a great job as a parent.

Best to ya, dude.
 
 
Spaniel
12:36 / 12.02.07
Cheers, gang. You lot all seem to be doing a pretty good job yourselves. Parental guilt, tho', eh?

A friend of mine, a soon to be dad, said something very insightful the other week about how the biggest job he anticipates having to tackle once his kid arrives is managing his own emotions. Too fucking true.

As for differently processed or unprocessed tomatoes and the affect they might have, I think it really varies. My mum is VERY allergic to raw tomatoes but can eat the well-cooked variety with little or no side-effects. It all depends on what compounds within the fruit you're actually allergic to, I think.
 
 
sorenson
11:11 / 16.08.07
Bumped. By a very tired new mum.

Who woulda thunk - the attachment parent vs cry it out debate has even raged on Barbelith...

I'm actually not interested in getting into that debate - my fundamental belief is that kids are very resilient and as long as there is a basic level of love and care that any kind of parenting is fine. I think those decisions are much more about what the parents feel comfortable with than what is 'best' for the child.

That said, my girlfriend and I lean towards attachment parenting ideas without being hardcore (reasons are a combination of what feels right for us as parents and people and being convinced by the evidence) but some of the AP type stuff just isn't happening for us. It sounds like our little Arlo is a bit like Boboss's Bosun was - veeeery awake and engaged with the world, and a total bugger to put to sleep. He hasn't shown any inclination so far to feed to sleep - needs heaps of active settling to get down and much prefers sleeping with upright motion (is happiest in a sling) which is lovely during the day but is making night-times really hard. We're sleeping in shifts at the moment, which works, but we miss each other! We are really hoping to have a family bed (co-sleep) but we tried again last night and as a result spent today absolutely miserably tired, and so are on shifts again tonight.

The thing that we are finding difficult is that the debate about parenting styles is so rabid that it is difficult to find practical advice that will help us parent in the way we want to without losing our minds. Everything is about why you should choose one method or another. We want practical co-sleeping advice apart from lists of safety considerations, and settling techniques that are responsive and work without being completely exhausting (he doesn't even really respond to tight wrapping, sadly). We've ordered $100 worth of books just today in the hope of finding more practical tips (William Sears Fussy Baby book and Attachment Parenting book, Elizabeth Pantley's No-Cry Sleep Solutions and a couple of Australian Breastfeeding Association booklets).

We are incredibly bloody lucky though, because we are two highly invested parents, both home together full time for at least a year, which is an unbelievable luxury. and once B2 (now known as Tootle) comes along in a few months we will both be able to breastfeed both babies, which will hopefully make up a bit for the probably very insanity-making months following having a newborn and a 4 month old that we have let ourselves in for.

Not really asking for advice here, I guess, just reassurance that things do change and I won't be bouncing on the fit-ball singing bad rock songs for hours a night forever...

All that said, the gorgeous little thing is fast asleep in a sling against my chest right now and I have love so huge that it almost hurts...
 
 
Spaniel
12:11 / 16.08.07
Arlo! We very almost called the Bosun Arlo. That's sooo cool.

Practical advice. Well, feeding and rhythmic bouncing (he liked to be bounced low and slow, my legs ache just thinking about it) were pretty much the only ways we could get him to sleep in the early days. But Arlo doesn't feed to sleep, you say? Hmmmm... that's a tough one, and unfortunately one I don't feel qualified to answer. It will get easier, though, once the his biology has worked out the difference between day and night, but then you already know that. It doesn't help you in the now.

As for co-sleeping, we just propped a cot against the side of our bed, removed the side, and treated it like a bed extension. The Bosun just moved closer throughout the night. I don't think we ever seriously worried about rolling on top of him - in fact the only bed related accidents have been entirely of his doing and happened when he was much older. Like the other day when he rolled off the bed and onto his prostrate father, who had retreated to the floor in an attempt to get some sleep.

Sleeping is still rough 'round here, actually. Perhaps I'll post about it in a bit.
 
 
grant
16:41 / 16.08.07
we will both be able to breastfeed both babies, which will hopefully make up a bit for the probably very insanity-making months following having a newborn and a 4 month old that we have let ourselves in for.

Months?

Heheheheheheh....
 
 
Spaniel
17:11 / 16.08.07
Sorenson, my partner suggested the possibility of trapped wind. The Bosun didn't like to sleep lying down when he had it.

Probably nothing you haven't thought of, but I thought I'd put it out there
 
 
grant
17:26 / 16.08.07
The one sleep thing I can recommend without reservation is the Fisher Price Aquarium. Have I mentioned that in this thread before?
We still use it with the son, a relatively good sleeper.

It's the music. Simple music, always the same. (Or similar enough - the thing plays like two songs and wave noises, depending on how you have it set up.)

Sameness is the important thing with bedtime, they say.

With our daughter, the difficult sleeper (still is, too, although it's more fun now), patting on the back rhythmically for as long as our tired arms could stand it seemed to be the best thing.

Best after the aquarium.

Never let your house run out of D batteries, either.
 
 
sorenson
19:37 / 16.08.07
OK Grant, yep, years of insanity ahead (and joy, too, hopefully). But we are hoping (probably completely naively) that in a year or so they will at least have evened out enough developmentally that we can have them on the same routine, more or less...one can only hope...and just think, when they're five, hopefully they'll go off and play together for hours!

Boboss, it could indeed be wind - as our midwife and general guru says, it's all about poo with babies. Our latest idea is to get a sling from which we can more easily lay him down once he is asleep (we're mostly using a Hugabub at the moment which is lovely and cosy and comfortable but impossible to get him out of without waking him up.

Singing etc does seem to help, but only in the upright position. Wave sounds sound good though!
 
 
Spaniel
08:34 / 17.08.07
God, I'm getting all broody. I didn't think that was possible.

Hmmm, can't see how a new little 'un would fit into our lives now, though. Really, really can't.

Booooooooo!
 
 
sorenson
15:08 / 17.08.07
I know, I must remember in the midst of the settling madness that this tiny, gorgeous person will never be this big or need us in quite this way ever again...I am sure that one day I will miss these nights bouncing and reading Barbelith with his small head nuzzled against my chest.
 
 
Spaniel
17:38 / 17.08.07
I already miss them.
 
 
COG
19:56 / 17.08.07
Feeling a slight intruder in this thread not having a baby, but I just wanted to beam good thoughts to all who are on Barbelith with kiddies. All, and I mean all, of my friends (and brother) have just had them in the last 18 months or so, and I'm far away abroad and relying on photos and 6 monthly visits to stay in touch. I had a brief experience of the baby life with an ex GF about 10 years ago, and it was one of the most important periods of my life. Luckily we stayed close after breaking up and it's been a great pleasure to see him grow up.
 
 
COG
20:00 / 17.08.07
Ooh, also just wanted to say that I always thought that the best thing about having a child was that you are so busy worrying about them, that you finally forget to worry about yourself. All the crappy issues of your teenage years and twenties just seem to fade away.
 
 
Sekhmet
13:33 / 21.08.07
Ooh, congrats, sorenson!

I'm still a few weeks away from direct experience with any of these problems, but my dread has been driving me to do some study on the subject. (Incidentally, I love the way Barbelith invariably tosses up things that are relevant to whatever's bugging me at any given time - it never seems to fail...)

My husband's aunt and cousins are all devotees of a quieting method created by a Dr. Harvey Karp, author of The Happiest Baby On The Block. His theory is based on the idea that the first three months of a baby's life should be considered a "fourth trimester" and that the most comforting things for a child that age are those that recreate the experience of the womb. The techniques he promotes are pretty standard baby-comforting things that most people would probably think of, but he recommends that they be performed in a particular combination and order - swaddling, side/stomach positioning, shushing, swinging, and sucking ("the five S's", as he calls them). Hubby's cousin swears by it, and her daughter is an angel.

I dunno, might be something to look into, at least for those still in the first three months.

Me, I'm still having trouble conceptualizing anything beyond the actual birth at the mo'... but I think I'll probably try it out when the time comes and let y'all know if it seems to work.
 
 
sorenson
18:43 / 21.08.07
Thanks Sekhmet!

The irony in all this is that my girlfriend is a post-natal midwife - it turns out having your own is rather different to giving advice to women for the first five days in hospital! But one of the perks is that she's been getting a lot of free advice etc through work. One of the things we did was a day-stay where they teach settling techniques. They showed us the Harvey Karp video - I thought it all made quite a lot of sense and that he seemed to be a lovely man. That said, Arlo failed the day stay - even the settling expert there couldn't get him to stay asleep for longer than about ten minutes without intensive resettling help (tight swaddling, white noise, vigorous rocking in the pram).

I think we've decided that our parenting gurus are the Sears, William and Martha. We just yesterday got their book called 'The Fussy Baby Book' and really, it describes Arlo uncannily well - except that we are doing many of the things they suggest and he still doesn't settle well. So our next step is to look into possible medical causes - first thing, remove dairy from our diets. That said, he still settles better if we go down the route of being the settling devices ourselves rather than using parent substitutes like swaddling and dummies. That is, he seems to really appreciate skin-to-skin contact, being carried around (in a sling mostly), sleeping either on one of our chests or snuggled up in one of our arms (like a teddy bear). It's exhausting for us, but we are unbelievably lucky that both of us are home full time to share the work around. And to be honest, we both prefer to have the intensive contact with him too...The tricky thing will be when the second one comes along - he'll be 3.5 - 4 months by then, ie just coming out of that fourth trimester phase, and we're hopeful that we'll have him more worked out and he'll be a bit more settled. Naively, perhaps! Whatever happens, at that point he will just have to get used to sharing our attention with his sibling - that's the way it's gonna be!

Sekhmet good luck with it all - I remember how huge the birth loomed, but even though it was a hard labour it seems like a mere blip in the road now! I'm sure we'll share tips in the months to come...
 
 
Papess
12:49 / 26.10.07
Sent to me by a friend:

POSITION :
Mom, Mommy, Mama, Ma
Dad, Daddy, Dada, Pa, Pop

JOB DESCRIPTION :
-Long term, team players needed, for challenging permanent work in an, often chaotic environment.
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-Some overnight travel required, including trips to primitive camping sites on rainy weekends and endless sports tournaments in far away cities!
-Travel expenses not reimbursed.
-Extensive courier duties also required.

RESPONSIBILITIES :
-The rest of your life.
-Must be willing to be hated, at least temporarily,
until someone needs $5.
-Must be willing to bite tongue repeatedly.
-Also, must possess the physical stamina of a pack mule and be able to go from zero to 60 mph in three seconds flat
in case, this time, the screams from the backyard are not someone just crying wolf.
-Must be willing to face stimulating technical challenges,
such as small gadget repair, mysteriously sluggish toilets
and stuck zippers.
-Must screen phone calls, maintain calendars and coordinate production of multiple homework projects.
-Must have the ability to plan and organize social gatherings for clients of all ages and mental outlooks.
-Must be willing to be indispensable one minute, an embarrassment the next.
-Must handle assembly and product safety testing of a half million cheap, plastic toys, and battery operated devices.
-Must always hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.
-Must assume final, complete accountability for the quality of the end product.
-Responsibilities also include floor maintenance and janitorial work throughout the facility.

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-Get this! You pay them! Offering frequent raises and bonuses.
-A balloon payment is due when they turn 18 because of the assumption that college will help them become financially independent.
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BENEFITS :
-While no health or dental insurance, no pension,
no tuition reimbursement, no paid holidays and no stock options are offered;this job supplies limitless opportunities for personal growth and free hugs and kisses for life if you play your cards right.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:53 / 26.10.07
Didn't you get the memo, Medulla? Barbelith hates children.
 
 
Papess
15:21 / 26.10.07
That is fine, Haus. My child hates Barbelith.
 
 
electric monk
16:03 / 26.10.07
"Barbelith is stupid" is the quote from your little nipper, IIRC. Still makes me laugh.
 
 
Papess
16:21 / 26.10.07
Indeed, Monk, those are my boy's words. Whatever will I do about this biased attitude? Barbelith-hating children - simply shocking. It makes a mother's heart break.
 
  

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