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Calling all Barbe-parents...

 
  

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ONLY NICE THINGS
11:21 / 01.11.07
I think Crystal children are the next step up. Like rainbow children. Souls of dolphins, or similar.
 
 
Spaniel
11:21 / 01.11.07
Indigo childen are too common, I'd imagine. Only the truly special ones have Crystal power.
 
 
Sekhmet
14:13 / 01.11.07
I tend to agree with Boboss that all children are magical. Looking briefly at the stuff online about Indigo and Crystal children, it really sounds like most, if not all, small children must be one or the other. I remember a lot of these "attributes" from my Child Psych classes. That doesn't mean they aren't exceptionally spiritually endowed and open - I think children just are.

Incidentally, my mom likes to tell a story about me climbing the drawers in the kitchen to get a bottle of liquid Tylenol off the top of the refrigerator, at around the same age as the Bosun. Apparently I spent the rest of the evening being happily drunk while she wallowed in parental remorse for leaving me unobserved for about five minutes. At least he was going for something innocuous!
 
 
Spaniel
15:12 / 01.11.07
I was being ironic. Truth be told, the idea of Indigo and Crystal Children squicks me quite a lot for a variety of reasons. I agree that children are amazing, fascinating creatures, but my focus would be less on special supernatural powers and the bizarre assertion that learning difficulties somehow correlate with them*, rather the sheer incredibleness of those aspects of humanity I can, see, hear, touch and smell.


*This is entirely received information. If there are any Indigo enthusiasts out there in Lith Land that know this to be a misrepresentation of the Indigo philosophy I'm all ears
 
 
sorenson
15:29 / 01.11.07
i think we're having the four month sleep regression. only his sleep was so bad to start with that now it is hellish.

not wanting advice, because most advice we probably won't take - we will just do what we can to survive without leaving him to cry alone. just wanted to vent.
 
 
Sekhmet
15:09 / 02.11.07
Sorry if I mistook your tone, Boboss. To be clearer, I think the majority of the description of so-called Indigo or Crystal children is just a description of children in general. I mean, sensitive, intuitive, and curious? It seems silly to put a label like that on kids who are just being kids.

I do happen to believe that children tend to be spiritually sensitive, but that's a discussion probably best left to the Temple forum.
 
 
Sekhmet
15:46 / 02.11.07
Just in time for B2 to come along and start demanding attention too, right, sorenson? Sorry to hear it's being rough.

We're doing a bit better - the awake and happy periods have started to come more than once a day. Huzzah!
 
 
Olulabelle
22:11 / 02.11.07
Indigo children; We're all intelligent people aren't we, so shall we not?
 
 
Spaniel
12:27 / 03.11.07
I think it's best
 
 
Papess
12:53 / 03.11.07
WHat about the lavender children with glitters? Or the incandescent children? Or the heavily polka-dotted cobalt children? Or the plaid children? Or the green-yellow children with red blotches (well, maybe not them, I think they are just sick),...well, can we talk about any of them?
 
 
Sjaak at the Shoe Shop
07:11 / 04.11.07
I am so excited.
Just found out our son is dead center on his growth curve, both length & weight. I mean, it once again confirms that he is just so... Ordinary!

I can tell you it is really really special to realize your child belongs to that select category of 'Ordinary Children'!

(Sorry, I couldn't resist)
 
 
Spaniel
16:54 / 04.11.07
Praise be to the average!
 
 
Sekhmet
22:28 / 04.11.07
Can anyone point up a good unbiased resource for information on the relative benefits of breastfeeding? Specifically, I'd like to get a clear idea of what the benefits are of doing it past the first few months.
 
 
sorenson
01:34 / 05.11.07
Does the World Health Organisation count as unbiased? They recommend exclusive breastfeeding to 6 months (that is, nothing but breastmilk for the baby), continuing on alongside solids to at least 2 and beyond. They have a bunch of links and information here:

WHO | Breastfeeding

The La Leche League also has a lot of information about the benefits of breastfeeding. They are, of course, very pro-breastfeeding. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find a health professional who wasn't - the evidence for its benefits (particularly over formula) is pretty conclusive.

That said, it is not easy - my partner is a lactation consultant and she still found establishing breastfeeding really challenging. You need lots of support and good advice around you - if you're struggling at all try contacting your local nursing mothers association (I don't know where you are, but there is sure to be a support group nearby). I am, of course, making the huge assumption that you are asking for the info to inform your own decision making...

And I am happy to ask my girlfriend any questions you might have!
 
 
Spaniel
08:51 / 05.11.07
Sek, I don't know your situation, but like Sorenson says breastfeeding can be very hard to establish. Bobosso had a relatively easy time of it, but even she was plagued by the threat of mastitis (which thankfully never arrived), and it took a couple of months before it stopped hurting.

But it did stop hurting.

If you do decide to go the breastfeeding route, and if it works for you, might I suggest that you get your hands on the book My Child Won't Eat!. I mentioned it a couple of pages back. It helped keep us sane when it came time to introduce solids.
 
 
Psych Safeling
10:49 / 05.11.07
Boboss - having one the same age I feel I ought to document my deep feelings of

a) awe; and
b) fear

inspired by your tale. Pleased to hear they learn fear by two, though, because when she hits two we're going to have Somebody Else to be thinking about. (Yay! Eek!)

Sorensen/Sekhmet, big love and huge sympathy. It's SO hard. Do try and sleep when the baby sleeps - I never managed as I was always (ridiculously/inexplicably in retrospect) preoccupied with trying to get some kind of order in the flat. Interestingly, since then and since living the highly unrecommended combination of full-time work, demanding toddler and the awful, awful first trimester, tidiness and cleanliness have slipped way down my list of priorities (perhaps even out of the top ten). I have every confidence that when number 2 arrives in April I will be a certified happy slob. SO has become quite the clean freak - it's brilliant.

I also didn't let SO get up in the night during the week - same rationale. Did make for some lonely times but there was many a day when he got in from work to find me at the entrance to the building (not flat) with mad eyes and hyper-extended arms proferring a screaming baby. Plus he sleeps like log so the few times he had agreed to do it it took me longer to try and wake him than it would have done to do it myself, especially given my straining milk factories.

I think the diminishing return of breastfeeding is typically thought to kick in around 6 months. Well, it's prior to that in that the younger the baby is, the more crucial it is, but at the second order level I'd really keep it going until then unless it's driving you mental. I kept going exclusively two months after I went back to work (she was 6 months) mainly for immunity reasons (none tangible - she still has had a cold for pretty much the last year), and also for guilt reasons. SO forced me to stop because I was running myself into the ground getting up at 5.45 to feed and express then working a full day then coming back and doing the evening and night-time feeds. (Still proud of myself, though.) That was slightly tangential, but really to illustrate that every case is different - as in all things with parenting, it's a case of weighing up your individual circumstances and working out what's best for your family.

Having said that, I'm in Boboss' camp re the leaving-to-cry - it seems to be one of those things that works initially and then unwinds, in my limited experience. We do have to leave P to cry now (18 months) as she is a calculating little madam on occasion, though it still breaks my heart. I'm a complete softie.

I can't tell you how much easier it gets and how much better. I must sheepishly admit I don't really miss the endless hours bouncing on the fucking ball whilst watching the streetlights switch off and the sun come up and trying desperately to muster up some gratitude for my 20 minutes' aggregate sleep.

Did anyone get high risk for Down's Syndrome on their nuchal scan? We were 'strongly advised' to get an amnio/CVS and politely turned down the offer. Not really feeling stressed about it at all, but sometimes idly hoping this isn't just due to a blase ignorance of living with someone with DS?
 
 
Spaniel
11:16 / 05.11.07
because when she hits two we're going to have Somebody Else to be thinking about. (Yay! Eek!)

ACTION!

Big congrats you super-brave hero woman you. I want another, but I'm not sure I could take the strain just now.

So, are we talking April next year?
 
 
Psych Safeling
11:22 / 05.11.07
Yep! 25th, 6 days after P's 2nd birthday (how does time go so quickly?). We are over the moon, if a little filled with trepidation. Amazing how you forget those early days.

Probably PM territory but hope all is very well with you guys.
 
 
Spaniel
11:43 / 05.11.07
Well, he's ill today, but nothing serious and other than that life is just fine.

Interesting that I didn't bring his illness straight to this thread. Stuff just starts to concern you less.
 
 
Psych Safeling
11:55 / 05.11.07
I'm ill too, so he has my every sympathy. Although he's probably not additionally inconvenienced by someone making a racket outside when he's trying to watch Twin Peaks.
 
 
sorenson
14:00 / 05.11.07
Hey Psych thanks for the support! I'm actually at the point of being really desperate for the second one to come along now - even though our house will be chaos, we're both kinda looking forward to holing up with our two babies and four milky breasts. We're not getting great sleep anyway so adding a newborn to the mix will hopefully not be too tricky.

On the Down's test thing, those screening tests (which I didn't do) are set at a level that creates many more false positives than true positives, in order to try and increase the number of true positives they catch. Does that make sense? I'm not sure where you are, but here in Australia out of every 12 or so 'high risk' screening results only one is actually a case of Down's. The questions to weigh up are intensely personal - would you terminate if a CVS/amnio came back positive? Are you willing to take the risk of miscarriage associated with CVS and amnio (1-2%)? The 20 week ultrasound, if you choose to get it, will also provide some more info, because they check for soft markers for Down's like heart defects.
 
 
Psych Safeling
14:15 / 05.11.07
No and no, which is why we're not stressed. They picked up a (potential?) heart defect at the 12 week scan (which increased our risk for DS as well as the high nuchal measurement) so we're having a special cardiac scan at 20 weeks. More worried about this but doctor mates have been reassuring - it's tricuspid regurgitation (i.e. tricuspid valve not (yet?) working quite properly) which happens in 1:100 'normal' babies, and our unschooled thinking is that it's only been a heart for a little bit, so we should give it a chance to develop properly. If our risk is increased (i.e. odds are shortened) at the next scan, we will think about a diagnostic test IF (and only if) there is one we can do without risking the baby's health. If not then we'll just take our chances, thanks. The whole thing leaves me feeling a bit weird about all the ante-natal testing and the indiscriminate doling out of risk figures that most people probably aren't in a position to appreciate, and therefore are predisposed just to take the advice they are given.
 
 
Olulabelle
16:12 / 05.11.07
Sekhmet, when I had my son I was lucky enough to have him at the Queen Charlotte Maternity hospital in London, where they give you lovely things like one-to-one midwifery all through your pregnancy, and also a whole day dedicated to learning how to breastfeed.

The best piece of advice I was given was that the whole nipple should go in the baby's mouth and that the way to do it is to make a U shape with your fingers underneath the nipple to squeeze it and then put it in the baby's mouth. I found even though I was a bit sore for the first few days if you put the whole nipple in then it doesn't actually hurt whilst you're feeding even though you may be a bit sore, and anyway your nipples will soon get used to it. The most common mistake women make is feeding the baby with just the tip of the nipple which makes them really, really sore (like agonising) and then you'll hate breast-feeding and give it up.

I'm sorry if talk of nipples is too much information for some, but it's important to say I think.

The other thing to do is express, so that other people can feed your baby for you. If you start doing that early on then the baby should take to the bottle alright and it means you can make sure your baby is getting breast milk whilst also having the occasional rest!

Interestingly, babies with a tummy full of formula can sleep for longer than those with a tummy full of breast milk, so Queen Charlottes suggested if you were absolutely shattered giving the babies one bottle of formula about 12pm instead of being breast fed for that feed, then you get a four hour sleep instead of two.

But you know, I also think that absolutely of course breast is best, but if it's killing you and making you miserable and resenting feeding your baby like it does for some women, then surely a calm and happy mother and a well-fed baby on formula is a better choice? The upset and stress of feeding can cause all sorts of problems for the bond between baby and mother and that's more important than anything.

I know some people will think that's a contentious thing to say and I'm not for a minute saying try formula before breast, but if you try breast feeding and it's utterly awful then as a mother you absolutely have the right to stop and no-one else in the world has the right to tell you any different.
 
 
Psych Safeling
16:29 / 05.11.07
I agree 100%. Just recently I had a friend in tears, desperate to give up but desperate not to. The best thing for the baby is to have a sane and happy mother, so whilst it's not easy and there's definitely at least a month of shit before it starts improving, it's not worth getting completely miserable over as a) this will diminish your milk supply and exacerbate the problem (don't you love Mother Nature's vicious circles) and b) your baby can tell when you are miserable. Second the vote for expressing and getting some time off (I remember for the first month I was literally feeding half the time). Do what you have to to stay sane, and remember that whatever you do some (well-meaning?) person will tell you you're absolutely wrong, so go with your instincts if they're giving you a strong message.
 
 
Olulabelle
16:35 / 05.11.07
Strong truth. There always seem to be some well-meaning/self-righteous people around when it comes to baby issues and they all generally tend to be convinced that they have either done it far better than you or know far more. I advise completely ignoring them and that includes me if you like!
 
 
sorenson
18:44 / 05.11.07
But you know, I also think that absolutely of course breast is best, but if it's killing you and making you miserable and resenting feeding your baby like it does for some women, then surely a calm and happy mother and a well-fed baby on formula is a better choice?

absolutely. for example, i know a woman who had some pretty big abuse issues, and she found breastfeeding just incredibly traumatic - she stuck it out for three months, but it was impacting on her bonding with her baby and once she finally called it a day things improved.

and also yes to the expressing! we've also done shifts with expressed milk. it's pretty nice for the non-milky partner to get involved with the feeding too, as well as a good rest for the milky one!

but i am a bit conscious that Sekhmet didn't actually say she was having problems with breastfeeding, so I hope all this advice isn't too annoying! for all I know maybe you wanted evidence to arm yourself against disapproving relatives with (like another friend of mine, who was criticised by everyone from her mother's group to her mother in law for breastfeeding her little girl to age two). the previous generation of mums got appalling breastfeeding support combined with aggressive marketing of formula (things haven't changed too much) and so a lot didn't breastfeed and now find it challenging when their daughters want to.

Psych, it sounds like you are already very well informed! I agree with you about the ante-natal testing. I've got really mixed feelings about it - I mean, I can see the value in being armed with information, but I feel pretty weird about the fact that it is all tacitly geared at terminating pregnancies that aren't perfect (at the same time as I acknowledge that I would be terrified if i had a child with a congenital abnormality such as DS). I don't think there are any diagnostic tests that don't pose a risk to the baby - none that I've heard of anyway (I could easily be wrong). i really hope your baby's potential heart defect has righted itself - but if not, i wish you all sorts of support and love in coping with that.
 
 
Psych Safeling
19:33 / 05.11.07
Thanks for your kind words. We don't feel terrified and whilst that's great, and I'm delighted that that's our instinctive reaction (don't take any credit for it being conscious management of my/our emotions), I do worry that perhaps a bit of it is down to confirmation bias on my part i.e. I know we're not going to terminate so I'm only reading good stuff about living with a child with DS. SO is remaining sanguine and hasn't read much besides the DSA website.

I try to think about it in terms of our parents' generation - they just wouldn't have been any the wiser about any of this. I was worried that it was impacting my excitement about the pregnancy, and dissemination of The News certainly hasn't been as frantic as it was two years ago, but actually now the bump is beginning to show I'm just as excited as I was last time. Hell, life throws things at people. The chances are still massively in favour of the baby not having DS. (Though I must say I've started feeling slightly guilty about preferring our baby not to have DS - it feels like I'm placing one potential child over another! Stupid, I know, but an interesting phenomenon I wouldn't have predicted.)
 
 
Sekhmet
23:51 / 06.11.07
Thanks everyone for the pointers and advice! I am actually not having a horrible time with breastfeeding, barring a very painful couple of weeks during which I had milk blisters and probably a yeast infection (Alice had thrush at the time). But she's been fairly good at latching on from the start, and I don't have any discomfort to speak of anymore.

I was curious, because my understanding was that most of the health benefits were fairly immediate and I wondered where the point of diminishing returns might possibly be. Frankly, I hate leaking all the time and I really miss sleeping on my stomach... but it would be pure selfishness to give it up just for those reasons.

On another topic - she's been drooling a lot, coughing a little, chewing on her knuckles and fussing intermittently during feedings... I'm wondering if we have an early teether on our hands...
 
 
Sekhmet
03:13 / 07.11.07
Psych, we also turned down amnio and genetic counseling when they discovered our SUA for the same reasons - if you've already determined that you're not going to terminate regardless of the results, there's not much point in taking the extra risk or dwelling on the worst-case scenario. The only rationale I could see for it is for the sake of preparedness if there was an issue, but later ultrasounds will tell you otherwise in plenty of time if need be. Chances are things will be fine.

You sound like you're being very positive and levelheaded about the whole thing, and I applaud you. Best wishes.

'pologies for the double post, I need to figure out how the new quick-edit feature works...
 
 
sorenson
06:11 / 07.11.07
On another topic - she's been drooling a lot, coughing a little, chewing on her knuckles and fussing intermittently during feedings... I'm wondering if we have an early teether on our hands...

oh we've had this (and more - shittier than usual sleep, hard painful chomps at the breast, ear pulling) for at least a month now (Arlo's 3.5 months) and no sign of anything other than two fractious mums! we've decided teething is an excellent excuse for everything though.

on the benefits of extended breastfeeding, I think that the general consensus is that while any breastfeeding is good, the longer you do it the more the benefits accumulate, and that exclusive breastfeeding to six months if you can is the ideal. (the benefits being things like improved immunity and IQ, reduced risk of diabetes etc for the baby, and reduced risk of breast cancer for the mum - there are heaps more, that's just what i can remember off the top of my head).

and Psych I agree with Sekhmet - sounds like you are dealing really well. if i've learnt anything from this parenting thing it's that nothing goes as you expect, everything pretty much is out of your control, and everything is both harder and more rewarding than you can ever imagine - I wouldn't be surprised if the same holds for having a kid with any kind of health issues.

on my own personal misery-wagon, i'm only 2 days over my due date but god i'm sick of it. please please let me go into labour soon....
 
 
Spaniel
08:31 / 07.11.07
In case anyone missed it, the results of a recent study looking at the benefits of breastfeeding
 
 
Olulabelle
16:49 / 07.11.07
Yes I don't think it's as clear a case as breastfeeding can improve your IQ. As the article says, this is only if you carry a certain gene which not everyone does.

I think this is interesting:

There has been some debate as to whether mothers who had more education or who were from more affluent backgrounds were more likely to breastfeed, skewing the results.

Although unless I'm reading it wrong it's suggesting that children of affluent parents have babies with a higher IQ, or else how would it skew the results?
 
 
Pingle!Pop
17:32 / 07.11.07
It's pretty well established that for all the creators of IQ test would undoubtedly love to produce a test that measures a person's "natural" intelligence (whatever that is), it's not possible. There are various ways to improve a person's IQ scores including, unsurprisingly, education. So yes, affluent people do on average have kids with higher IQs - it's not a contentious statement, and doesn't equate to "have more intelligent children" unless you define "intelligence" in a very particular way.
 
 
Spaniel
17:47 / 07.11.07
Yeah, it's a familiar argument if you've been following this stuff
 
 
sorenson
18:58 / 07.11.07
Sekhmet I also meant to say that I think for most women the leaking does stop eventually - my girlfriend doesn't leak at all anymore (3.5 months in) but it was full on for the first month or two.
 
  

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