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Calling all Barbe-parents...

 
  

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Spaniel
17:50 / 05.12.07
What is wrong with them (other than the laziness/rodforownbackness)?
 
 
Olulabelle
18:13 / 05.12.07
I don't know. They actually do think that they're doing the right thing. They can't see that if you don't teach a child a thing, it ends up - golly gosh - not knowing that thing.

We did use time out at that age, yes. We had a bean bag and we used to make him sit on it for a couple of minutes and it did work. Then, after a while before he stopped doing the thing that made us put him there he used to be naughty and then go and sit on the bag of his own accord. Which used to crack me up. It was like, I'm going to do it, but I'll take the punishment like a man.
 
 
alas
19:34 / 05.12.07
I just read somewhere in my web-wanderings about hug-outs. Not a time out, but a big long bear hug from the parental. Not in a mean way but a "I love you and if you aredoing this bad thing because you need/want attention, I want to give it to you." A danger if the hug feels like punishment, I suppose, but I don't think it's to be done in that spirit...I think there's a way to communicate loving concern through hugging (I need to hug you because this spinning on the edge of a cliff is scary!) vs. just a regular old hug....

I wonder if it would work in practice... and if it would require the patience of a saint--sometimes the time out is also for the frustrated adult who just needs to chill out and remember "I am the adult. This is a child whom I love. I love this child, really, and this is the same child who looks like an angel when ze's napping, even though ze's coming across to me as a tiny minion of Beelzebub at the moment."
 
 
Princess
19:41 / 05.12.07
I can't imagine that working ever. Plus, if they are looking for the attention, surely it just reinforces the idea that bad behaviour gets rewards? I think it's a dangerous technique anyway. My family have a big thing of "hugging" after arguments, hence, as an adult, I hate hugging people I'm not going to sex.

Hug should in no way at all be linked to punishment or bad behaviour. This is my opinion.
 
 
Spaniel
20:42 / 05.12.07
Wouldn't work anyway. The boy would never sit still for it.

He wants hugs if and only if he wants hugs.
 
 
Spaniel
07:46 / 06.12.07
Gonna go and buy a bean bag...
 
 
Saturn's nod
13:07 / 06.12.07
Beanbags are great.

I know parents are in a very different situation than people who just look after kids once in a while, it must be a whole different perspective.

I guess my (non-parent!) attitude to the attention-seeking thing is, we all want attention from the people we love. An important part of self care and sociability is working out how to get that in a mutually agreeable way, right? I'm not sure I see how to teach a two year old kid to get the hang of that though.

I remember a mate's kid getting it at three while they were staying with us. There was a conversation about this kind of stuff over his head while he was playing, and the next day it seemed like he worked it out. It seemed as if he suddenly realized he could just seek out hugs instead of making a big problem/racket/fight when he wanted attention from his mum, and started doing that. That was kind of awesome to witness. But, a year or more development from nearly-two years old to three-and-a-bit is a long way in small kid terms, isn't it?
 
 
Spaniel
13:10 / 06.12.07
Ah, but things move quickly. Fastest year of my life, this one.
 
 
alas
14:02 / 06.12.07
Well, as I said, I'm not SURE it would work, but the knee-jerk reaction of absolute certainty that it "couldn't possibly work" kind of, well, sounds lame. I actually have raised up two pretty wonderful people, who came into my life from foster care. (Just curious: Are either of you speaking from that kind of depth of experience?)

Did I do so perfectly? By no means. If I had to do it again, I'd try to worry a whole lot less about "whether they're just doing something for attention" and those kinds of power games. I know that for sure.

One of my best friends made the decision that they were going to make their children's childhood absolutely most joyous, most loving, most care-filled experience possible. Adulthood might indeed suck, but the child would be totally loved in childhood. And his adult children have their problems, of course, but they've got that joyous base to touch.

Looking back on my own experience, I do remember how hard it was for me to know what to do when in a kind of power-struggle with the child. And I'm fairly sure that, for me, hugging wouldn't work all the time. But I also know that surprising a child, not following the expected pattern, not getting in to the same power-play formula that most conflicts tend to assume over time, works for most people. It gets us out of the eternal return of the same, which I think is key.

(While yes a high degree of consistency with children is very important in many areas, if taken as a simple gospel it can get us locked into predictable patterns and we end up continually fighting and re-fighting the same battles. We need to re-frame things periodically.)

So, I suspect at the very least that spontaneously surprising some children, at some time, when they have learned to expect any specific reaction, probably an irritated or "learn a lesson" reaction, and giving them a hug or some other spontaneous sign of affection instead could be refreshing and startling, and maybe shake up the pattern.
 
 
Princess
14:20 / 06.12.07
My depth of experience is how similar tactics affected me as a child. It's completely personal. So my unequivocal "No" is possibly overstated.

As a shock tacktic, yes, it might work. But as a repeated thing? It just seems too risky.
 
 
Spaniel
14:24 / 06.12.07
Didn't mean to sound dismissive, just that I know my child, and I'm pretty sure that 7 or 8 times out of 10 he wouldn't want a cuddle imposed on him. He's just a very wriggley little beast. It may be worth trying from time to time, however, if I get the feeling it'll work.

Some really good advice there generally. Thanks
 
 
Psych Safeling
17:46 / 09.12.07
Hello - no advice on behaviour, really. I can't see hugging it out working for us at this age, because, like Boboss' progeny, ours will not endure an uninvited hug. She is beginning to exhibit a distinct enjoyment of headbutting. I'm not sure how to combat this other than catching her head near the beginning (yes, it is always directed at my face) and increasing the pressure so the headbutt is dissipated and therefore becomes boring. Nice in theory but it's not working so far. She finds it absolutely hysterical.

On another, happier and less challenging note, we had our 20 week scan on Friday. Heart problem seems resolved and there was no abnormality they could detect - HOORAY! This, together with lack of any other DS markers has halved our odds of having a baby with DS. We are pretty damn delighted.

Hope all is well with everyone. Sorensen, give us an update. I'm nervous enough about a 2 year old and a newborn...
 
 
Spaniel
18:22 / 09.12.07
Glad to hear the good news, Psych.

Biting, punching, etc gets a bit of a bollocking in our house. It's one of the few things that will elicit a big telling off and raised voices.

Seems to be working so far.
 
 
The Natural Way
07:24 / 10.12.07
The ginger one posed this question, boboss: why not just lock him in his room?

It would be a hell of a lot easier.
 
 
Spaniel
09:13 / 10.12.07
Because that's very often more about what the parents want - some peace and quiet - than about what's good for the child, particularly if what the child wants is you to engage with hir. I also think it's very heavy duty, unquestionably a punishment, and would be entirely inappropriate as a method for dealing with minor infractions.

That's not to say I wouldn't consider the option, but I'm instinctively quite uncomfortable with it.
 
  

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