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Nobody's girl
22:15 / 12.09.05
My beautiful baby girl is currently depriving her tired, tired parents of sleep due to a combination of tummy problems and generally being a new baby unable to sleep to any kind of pattern. I've keep telling myself that things will improve and I will be able to get her to sleep on a schedule eventually, but it all seems so far away and so much effort in this addled, exhausted state. What's most upsetting is that I feel like I'm unable to appreciate how amazing she is 'cos I'm so damned tired all the time.

I have NO idea how single parents cope and now have a renewed respect for just how hardcore they are.

Anyway, give me some hope, guys.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
22:18 / 12.09.05
Yeah, once she hits about 18, 19, it's all plain sailing from then on.
 
 
Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns
22:21 / 12.09.05
No parental experience myself yet! But my mum always goes on about what a nightmare i was in the sleep department for the first few months then Bingo i started sleeping like a log. In fact i apparantly slept so deeply that she would hoover the room whilst i slept.
So i'm sure you'll both be sleeping sound as a pound in no time.
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
22:25 / 12.09.05
It does get easier, but the first few months to a year are very difficult, usually especially for the mother as that's who the baby will most likely prefer. If you have access to grandparents/friends/anyone who can take the bundle of joy off your hands for a few hours, and you can bear them to do so - take the opportunity whenever it presents.

Don't worry too much about every little cough and sneeze and so forth - the child will need - nay, demand - looking after all the time, but they are pretty hardy, usually. Sleep in shifts if you have to. The sleep schedule should settle down soonish, hopefully. How old is she?
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
22:35 / 12.09.05
I'm sure all the mothers here can give you way better advice than me by the way. Good luck.
 
 
lekvar
22:40 / 12.09.05
It doesn't get easier, the frustrations just change. Our daugter didn't give us a decent night's sleep for the first year. She still wakes me up earlier than I'd like, and often with an elbow to the throat, but those 6 uninterrupted hours of sleep are such sweet, sweet nectar...
 
 
Nobody's girl
23:10 / 12.09.05
I heard a couple of these "baby had a tough start and at X months magically slept through the night from then on" stories, but I cannot afford to lay my hopes in this scenario in case it doesn't materialise and I end up throwing myself off Salisbury Crags in despair.

We've been handing her over to my mother for a few hours on a Sunday, but it's hard to leave her at the moment as we both end up missing her and worrying about her!

She is only 6 weeks and I know it's very early days, but that's why I'm feeling quite overwhelmed with how I'll cope in the inevitable future months of further sleep deprivation. We have been sleeping in shifts, it sucks because I get a bit crazy from a lack of adult company as we pass each other in the night. Sometimes I make the painful choice of no sleep for a chat and a cuddle but I do end up regretting it when the sleep dep sweats and dizziness sets in.

It doesn't get easier, the frustrations just change.

See, I've been hearing this from a few people and it isn't inspiring me with much hope. 6 hours uninterrupted sleep though... sounds blissful. I suppose I'll just have to look forward to the day she's old enough and I'm comfortable enough with letting her sleep over at her Granny's.
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
23:30 / 12.09.05
When they're old enough to sleep alone and unaided, it really does get better. As does being able to rationalise with a child rather than communication occuring mostly in screams and wails. So maybe about age 2-3 for that part to kick in effectively.

Now Frankie is (just about) four, it really does become much more possible to make a deal or talk through any problems she might be having, rather than it all being taken on the basis of a tantrum as an possible opening gambit. The incessant "why is x y?" can get a little tiring, as can the constant repeated questions, but this is sheer bliss compared to the early months. We still get woken up pretty early though.

I always found music with a steady beat and deep bass (dub being ideal) was a very effective way of calming her down as an infant, mostly during the day anyhow. If it's not too tiring, visiting friends or relatives, or getting them to come round, is a help in terms of both adult company and distraction for the child. Going for walks with Stoatie and his dog in the park with a stop at the pub before ambling back became a really good break from the routine. But going out is always accompanied by several bags of bits and bobs the younger the child is, so that becomes tiring in itself, as I'm sure you've found.
 
 
lekvar
00:24 / 13.09.05
-It doesn't get easier, the frustrations just change.

-See, I've been hearing this from a few people and it isn't inspiring me with much hope
It doesn't get easier, but at some point between 3 and 9 months you will get a smile, and that smile (sometimes accompanied by a giggle) is like the sweetest heroin.

So, really I should rephrase that:
It doesn't get easier, but the rewards are unfathomable.
 
 
alas
00:39 / 13.09.05
Oh honey. It does get easier than where you are right now.

You probably know that you are still probably going through a tremendous hormonal chaos--on top of all the sleep deprivation!--as the body is still shifting from baby-building to milk production, and beyond. Post-partum depression is a real thing, and it sounds like you're on the edge of it.

You need to be as gentle as possible with yourself. Make the "babies are hardier than we think" line a bit of a mantra. Grandma's fine with her for an hour. Drink some calming herbal teas and listen to some good music or a book on tape from the library--I find that a book on tape is the only thing distracting enough to help me to sleep when I'm too tired to meditate.

If you can, take a yoga class; I'd recommend meditation, but, as I said, it takes too much concentration when you're exhausted, I find. Yoga's advantage is that it gives you a focus, and some good long stretches of the muscles will release some of this stress from you.

If you can: pay for a massage for yourself, and don't worry if you need to weep. The therapist will have experienced this before.

Muscles hold this sadness, I find.

There's a whole lot of pressure on Western mothers to "enjoy this, damnit: no body forced you to have this baby so you better make sure to have that earthmother bliss at least once a day."

Just survive. Your body figured out how to build that baby's bone and skin and brain, without your conscious effort! You are going to be fine. You are, right now, developing the skills, mostly unconsciously, that you need to raise a fine child. It takes some time, you'll never get it "perfect" (except, like, for two brief shining moments in your whole existence). But you'll be more than good enough.

Yes, you will find that you are more capable of mindless rage and infinite possessive protective love than you ever thought possible. But you will come through this. And some quiet wisdom will come with it, shoring you up for what's next.
 
 
Nobody's girl
04:57 / 13.09.05
When they're old enough to sleep alone and unaided, it really does get better. As does being able to rationalise with a child rather than communication occuring mostly in screams and wails.

Whilst that is reassuring in some respects, it is AGES away and I'm trying not to focus on too far ahead right now in case it gets me down.

If it's not too tiring, visiting friends or relatives, or getting them to come round, is a help in terms of both adult company and distraction for the child.

Yeah, I've been getting a bit of cabin fever, I recognise that. I made plans to at least get out once this week with a friend and some of the local cinemas have an early morning showing specifically for parents of babies which I've been meaning to go to. It's the not too tiring aspect that is difficult at the moment, especially as most baby groups etc appear to happen in the mornings which is the one time of day I can be assured she'll nap and I can catch a quick sleep. She clearly takes after her parents- not a fan of mornings!

We've already had some delightful smiles, although I'm aware conventional wisdom insists they're "just gas" until a bit older.

I hadn't really thought about the hormonal shift so much, but you certainly have a point, alas. Baby blues hit me like a brick so I imagine this shift might be a bit of an adjustment too.

Post-partum depression is a real thing, and it sounds like you're on the edge of it.

I was pretty concerned about this, I have just recently emerged from a bad bout of garden variety depression before I became pregnant so I'm keeping an eye on it. Thankfully I don't think I'm there and I know that there's a top notch post-partum depression drop in centre within walking distance if I need a hand.

There's a whole lot of pressure on Western mothers to "enjoy this, damnit: no body forced you to have this baby so you better make sure to have that earthmother bliss at least once a day."

Yeah! It's dead frustrating. Even people who've had babies and must've been through the same experience seem to edit out how hard it is to begin with- both our mothers are guilty of this. I suppose it's an amnesia enforced by evolution 'cos no-one would have more than one baby if they truly remembered what those first few months were like.

Interestingly, alas, a lot of your advice is stuff I've been considering or doing already. There's a yoga class for parents and babies nearby I've also been contemplating attending, a generous friend has just sprung for a massage for me, I've been drinking shedloads of camomile and peppermint and you've just reminded me to start downloading some audio books. Thank you so much for the reassurance though, I'm feeling a bit fragile and it's good to hear someone tell me I'll be OK.
 
 
Lilly Nowhere Late
05:20 / 13.09.05
I'm pretty sure I've suggested this book to at least one other person here but let me say again that "Life After Birth" by Katie Figues(i think this is right) is one of the most honest and helpful, non fluffy right down the line books ever, which every parent, or even those ever considering parenting, should most definitely read.

Apart from that advice, I would remind you that no baby ever reads the books and manuals so you have to take it all with a grain of salt. Fortunately, most very young babies don't read Barbelith either.

One thing I realized after having Frankie was that whatever's going on, it usually changes every two weeks. So if something's very bad, it won't last that long. It does take babies about 12 weeks to be able to recognize light and dark and it is around 3 months when they seem to start preferring to sleep in the dark. Then the sleep times get longer and longer until, eventually, your child will sleep for a solid 12 hours, consistently almost every night. I also found it quite helpful to establish a routine of sleep, feed, play, sleep. Note this does not include feed then sleep. It might sound impossilbe, but you can do this and babies around 6 weeks start being able to just drift off without breast or bottle. However, if it frustrates you or your baby, don't bother.
When I had Frankie I obsessed about getting stuff right. I worried that whatever early patterns I established would be her patterns for life. This is simply wrong and no baby develops any patterns until around age 8-9 months. So for now, just do what your instincts say, or what makes you be able to cope, and that is the right thing to do.
Young babies also benefit in my opinion from colic remedies such as Infacol or Gripe water. At least they can sleep without the tummy pains and altho I worried about using remedies I became convinced that these are harmless and helpful.
Also, the above post about your own personal hormonal fugazi is completely right on. I know for the first 6 weeks of Frankie's life I was ready to call an ambulance every time she whimpered and I am not exagerating. This was only one feature of the emotional disaster I temporarily was. I did eventually admit to myself that I was not enjoying things but by the time I figured that part out, it was past and I started enjoying my baby. There were so many times I just wanted to pack up and leave. The guilt ate me alive. Then just when I found out that every new mom gets those feelings, just as overwhelmingly as I did, Frankie and I both seemed to settle down.
You will reach a sage time when all this first few months seem like a bad dream because it's all so blissful that you forget. Some mad folks even go on to do it again and again.
Best of luck to you! Do try to talk a lot to other moms. No one else gets it at all.
 
 
Nobody's girl
05:32 / 13.09.05
We're already hitting the Infacol and the Doctor has given us a couple of weeks worth of infant Gaviscon- I'm not going to let her suffer through the torments of her digestive system without at least trying to help.

I'll hunt down that book though, thanks.
 
 
Sjaak at the Shoe Shop
06:31 / 13.09.05
Our son is now 5 months old, and sleeps from 8 till 8 (teeth willing..). So there is hope!
Plus tummy problems disappear after a few months....
It still takes up a lot of time, but is not so absorbing as in the first weeks. We now go swimming on saturdays, his first experience in the water, hilarious!

Anyway, 6 to 8 weeks is a watershed.
The first months made me realize how much in life you normally do on routine. Probably 99.9%. With a baby this is completely out the window, and you need to concentrate on even the smallest tasks. The first diapers really take an effort. However, from 6 weeks you develop routines again, and this is where you will be saving a lot of energy in the next weeks.

Not all children develop a rhythm naturally, sometimes you really have to teach them. (this happened with my little niece, who insisted to be fed every hour. Until her parents decided it was enough, and just let her cry. Now she eats every 3-4 hours during the day, and sleeps 9 to 11 the next morning)

A good book we read was by Tracy Hogg, "Secrets of the Babywhisperer" (US title, horrible, I know), sometimes a bit over the top but had some really good basic tips.

A few tips I can give you from experience, probably everybody has been overwhelming you with well-meant advice, but still, you may find something useful:

Let her sleep in her own room. We started doing this from two weeks onwards. Our son can make a lot of noise while asleep(it was like lying next to an old granpa) on the other hand, he can wake up, grunt, and just fall asleep again if not given attention.

If you need to console at night, try to limit picking her up, but leave her in bed as much as possible (unless of course she is really upset). When she has to sleep, leave her alone in a quiet place as much as possible.

Take a break.
Get help from friends or family, and get a good night sleep. If you are breastfeeding, consider giving a bottle at night, so somebody else can do it while you sleep. Nothing wrong with that. (also, you might as well get used to the fact that you cannot watch over her every second of her life)

We had homeopathic drops against cramps, he loved them, so when he had to go to sleep we put a few drops on a pacifier, and he would really relax.

Lastly, I think most importantly, TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND DONT WORRY TOO MUCH.
your baby is very healthy and wil grow up fine. Dont worry too much about her. She will be fine. But it is really important for her that she has mother who enjoys life.
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
08:52 / 13.09.05
Sorry, me again.

This all takes me right back, and I keep on remebering other bits of just how difficult it was for us both. As Lilly said, only the mother will really get it though, so it's you who needs the most taking care of, especially right now.

So take care of yourself and each other. It's really important to do that, together and separately. Relaxing massages are particularly good - for the mother especially. If you both can relax, then so will your daughter in turn.

Bottles are definitely a great help for allowing you some time away from feeding your baby too.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:54 / 13.09.05
I know nothing about kids, but just wanted to send you best wishes and say that Lilly and Tango-Mango seem to be doing a damn good job of raising an excellent child, so their advice is probably good.
 
 
Psych Safeling
09:32 / 13.09.05
Will someone remind me to read this thread in seven months' time? or as soon after that as I'm not too addled to turn on a computer?

Nobody's Girl, I've heard similar things from lots of new mothers, particularly the guilt/frustration at being so unpleasantly overcome by it all. The only thing I can add to what's above is that should you ever forget enough to do it again, testimony suggests it's all much easier the next time round. Some attribute this to the better understanding you have of how hardy and resilient your baby is, which suggests that if you can bring yourself to believe this now, it might lead to a calmer, more relaxed Mum. It's all very well saying that when you're so exhausted you can barely see, though. With any luck you should find you relax more and more during Grandma time and are able to rest/some couple time then.

I feel for you with nervous future empathy. I'm finding the exhaustion of first trimester hard enough. Don't know whether it's better to carry on getting 10 hours a night (interrupted, obviously, by loo trips and bizarre middle-of-night wide awakenings/dreams of weirdness unprecedented except for during period of Lariam usage) and store it up or to try getting used to perpetual extreme fatigue now.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
11:22 / 13.09.05
Not envying you at all at all.

But it does get easier. It really does. That first full night, and lie in, oh Blissssssssssssss....

Until you cross time-zones and get jet lagged.

Three year old + Jet lag = FROWN.
 
 
subcultureofone
12:14 / 13.09.05
i'm not a parent so i have no real-life advice to offer. however, i worked with ob/gyn's and midwives for several years. the midwives highly recommended infant massage for soothing a colicky baby. for recovering from the birth, susun weed's wise woman herbal for the childbearing year.
 
 
grant
13:15 / 13.09.05
I suppose I'm a special case with this, since we missed out on Year One, but sleep issues are a thing, yes.

Sophia's 2 1/2 now. She sleeps through the night most nights, but really only because she sleeps in a day-bed in our room. She has her own toddler bed, and would go to bed in that, wake up at around 1:00 and walk into our room to climb into our bed, and then (when we got it) the day bed, and now we just put her down in that.

I do have friends who swear by co-sleeping, although you'd need special gear to do that safely with a little one. Here's a nice scientific FAQ on co-sleeping. It also has some general sleep research, and links to more.
 
 
Papess
13:25 / 13.09.05
subcultureofone, I have had that book and it's pretty good. Good enough for me to lend it out...*sigh*

Nobody's Girl, congratulations!, first of all. I am not sure if you had announced the arrival before, and/or if I had posted a congrats to you before at all.

I am a single mom and I didn't sleep for nearly a year and went a little mental. I still don't sleep very much. The only way I can survive (and I mean that literally) is to allow for others to help me. I know it is hard, and we miss our kids very much, but better you are rested and in a good state for your kids.

It is true also that the problems change, but when the age of reason hits you will breathe a sigh of relief. Not being able to explain consequences to a two-year old is definately crazy making.

Take care of yourself(ves). You need to be strong and healthy to raise a child, and don't be shy or ashamed to ask for help when you need it.
 
 
William Sack
13:36 / 13.09.05
Seconded - do ask for help, or if people offer it, as they often do, bite their hands off to take it. Small practical things even if it's just doing a pile of laundry for you or bringing/cooking you a meal can seem like an enormous help. It all seems such a blur now, even though it was only 20 months ago, but we found 4 - 10 weeks a particularly challenging time.

I hope things become easier for you, I'm sure they will. Sympathy and best wishes to you, your partner and your little girl (who is gorgeous btw - your partner posted a pic).
 
 
Lilly Nowhere Late
14:39 / 13.09.05
Psyche Safeflin, sleep now and start reading the above mentioned book.
There's a wives tale that a relaxed well rested mom who sleeps a lot during pregnancy produces an infant who likes to sleep as well.
 
 
Silver
14:52 / 13.09.05
Speaking as the father of a seven month old...

Sleep schedules are random. There will be periods -- sometimes even a week -- where he sleeps through the night. Of course, I still wake up every time he coughs, but that's to do with having the baby monitor up too loud.

Other times, he won't be able to go more than thirty minutes without screaming. Day or night.

It can be incredibly stressful. The temptation is always there to hand him off to the other parent, but one has to remember that the other parent is probably as stressed as you are.

All I can offer is to echo two other pieces of advice in this thread -- these thoughts have gotten me through some tough moments.

1) Babies don't break easily, so there's no need to freak out when Junior bumps his head on the floor. Again.
2) It's all worth it when he smiles.

It gets easier. Really.
 
 
Psych Safeling
15:23 / 13.09.05
Thanks Lilly. Not a theory held to by my own dear Ma, who rested up for the duration of my stay in her chamber, yet gave birth to the dastardliest non-sleeper of a sprog ever, according to legend. The constant lager consumption (according to Dad) during this period of stultifying bedrest might have been a general theory-derailer, though...

Any excuse to go to bed at 9, though. Hell, I might even make it 8 tonight. I have my fingers, toes and probably fallopian tubes crossed that the nausea and exhaustion only have two or three weeks left to go.
 
 
Lilly Nowhere Late
18:15 / 13.09.05
Jesus, sorry about the awful name typo!

I wasn't going to go into the horror that is teething, tantruming and potty training.

Just concentrate on now, really...

My little Frankie told me I today that she thinks I'm "just beautiful". They do pay for themselves in the eventualness of theirselves.
 
 
subcultureofone
19:44 / 13.09.05
links for sites with infant massage techniques:

one with pictures

one with more techniques:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A880670

one from la leche league with a colic-specific massage:
http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBJanFeb98p13.html

the last two give a 'bad link' message when i put them in the link format; i have no idea why
 
 
rising and revolving
22:51 / 13.09.05
The one useful tip I know, is that for the first year there should only be the one rule - when the baby sleeps, Mum sleeps.

There's no point trying futiley to actually have a real sleeping schedule. Just pass out whenever bub does.
 
 
William Sack
09:19 / 14.09.05
The one useful tip I know, is that for the first year there should only be the one rule - when the baby sleeps, Mum sleeps.

This only works if you have a cook and a cleaner and only one child.

I forgot to answer the question in the thread summary: yes, it does get easier.
 
 
electric monk
03:12 / 15.09.05
It most certainly does get easier, and there's definitely great advice for you in this thread. Particularly handing baby off once in a while and sleeping when baby (blissfully) sleeps.

To help along that latter one, check out Ocean Dreams. I laughed when we got this at our baby shower, as it's got a warning label on the back urging you not to drive while listening to it. But sonuvagun, they're right! It put baby AND me out cold in the rocking chair on many a night.

Mrs. Electric also kept a weekly relaxing bath ritual (candles, soap bubbles, and a beer to hand) that saw her through some rough spots. Couldn't hoit!

Hope this helps. Wishing the best for all of you.
 
 
Spaniel
19:38 / 12.09.06
Six months in and ours has never - NEVER - slept through the night, and is still touchy about being put down.

Any ideas?

(note: we're attachment parenty types that don't like Gina Ford)
 
 
grant
19:55 / 12.09.06
Is it a feeding thing? Our boy wakes at around 1:00 quite often, but almost always it's because he's hungry.

He always goes down after getting something extra in his belly.
 
 
Olulabelle
20:10 / 12.09.06
I expect you'll hate the idea but I used the sleep clinic technique with my little boy. I was at my wits end and so I went to the doctor to ask for help. They sent us to a special sleep clinic and we were taught a special technique in a group with other parents. We went everyday for a week.

It's wonderful and it works in less than a week and at six months your baby is at exactly the right age. But it involves leaving your baby to cry. I have no idea what you mean by 'attachment' parenting, but I suspect it has something to do with going immediately to your baby if it cries so you would hate the sleep clinic technique.

I think that's a shame because it is quite simply brilliant. It took 4 days of hell, but the 12 hours of sleeping constantly after that and the instant going to sleep without crying was worth it.

I would recommend it to anyone and if anyone else wants to know how to do it, I'm happy to explain.
 
 
electric monk
20:31 / 12.09.06
Is that the Ferber method, Lula?
 
 
grant
20:40 / 12.09.06
By attachment parenting, do you mean you're already co-sleeping?
 
  

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