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Battlestar Galactica Season 2 US Thread (SPOILERS)

 
  

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Seth
08:57 / 12.02.06
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For all the supposed lasting ramifications of Friday’s episode I just felt a bit ‘bleh’ about it all. Two major characters shot, one dead, Dualla’s mind finally being made up, Starbuck guilt over the friendly fire… I think the strain for me was way things are increasingly veering on the incestuous, with the main cast feeding on each other in ever more guilt-ridden, antagonistic and sexualised ways. The series is now pushing hard into the realms of the ridiculous, with major consequences of previous storylines fudged, that it’s had a lot of its illusion of reality stripped away.

Upshot: I have less invested. Gunshot wounds heal fast on this show, guilt disappears faster, no-one mourns for too long, despite being occasionally name-checked as per last episode.

The main plot was a dial-a-motive hostage crisis that at least had the interesting effects of forcing characters into situations in which they have to fight for things that they previously have been struggling with or against (Adama with Boomer, Billy with Apollo). The beefing up of Billy in the first half of the episode, along with his doomed proposal, just felt like an exercise in making the latter part of the story more emotionally effecting when really we’re given the death of another red shirt in whom we have little actually invested. I’d like to think that his death would loom large over any attempts for Dualla and Apollo to get it on, but I just don’t think he’s seen as that important.

And again, crucial parts of the story or character development are left off-screen. Didn’t Apollo tell Dualla he wasn’t interested? So why is he dating her again here? Yeah, I know he didn’t really mean it, that he was in a pretty bad place… but don’t we need to see the turn around? And what’s happened to the supposed existential crisis that he suffered out in space earlier in the season? And the Boomer sting was a bit crap, wasn’t it? Did Adama think for a second that would work?

I’m a bit reluctant to put on a spoiler warning here. After all, the episode felt so bizarrely slight and inconsequential that I wish it didn’t merit one in addition to the warning in the title of the thread. But I guess some people may still have a lot of goodwill for this show. I’m in the stages of wondering how long it will be before it picks up again, but part of me is also wondering how long to give it before it passes the point of no return.
 
 
sleazenation
12:13 / 12.02.06
Yeah, Seth highlights a number of things about BSG that have been niggling me for a long time... and I keep coming back because BSG could actually be really interesting, so much more interesting thyan it is...

Yeah, this week's ep was weak and hamdtrung by the unconvincing hi-jacker and even less convincing shoot-out that falls back into a stand-off. Once the marines go in, they ain't pulling out till all the hostage takers are dead.

The whole thing read like a synopsis, missing out all the meat that makes drama dramatic and characterization, rich and fulfilling...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:40 / 12.02.06
The second half of the season should have concentrated on the return of the Pegasus, Ron Moore said that he knew everyone expected the ship to be destroyed by the end of Resurrection Ship II and so didn't destroy it to 'confound expectations', but the overall effect this has had on the show has been absurd in the lack of effect this has had.

Last week and this week's shows were pretty good, they just weren't the right stories to have right now. And as has been pointed out, the show is emotionally all over the place, one week Lee is burned out and near suicidal, next week he's fine and looking on puzzled as Starbuck is all over the place, the week after that she's emotionally together enough to attempt a rescue and Lee is now together with Dualla, despite the fact that the last time they were on screen she was choosing Billy over him.

It's just going to pieces.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
20:49 / 12.02.06
Strong truth. 'Sacrifice' was one of the few episodes I really didn't enjoy. Like the rest of you, I don't see a lot of emotional consistency here, and the last three episodes have kind of felt like the writers had ideas for stories which they've shoehorned into the show's continuity. With 'Black Market' and 'Scar' it worked, here it didn't. They need to roll out the big bad for this season, whether it's inside or outside of the fleet or both.
This rumor from Tvguide.com looks promising: "Lucy Lawless is returning as toxic toaster D'Anna Biers for a 10-episode arc next season. But up first, she'll appear in the highly hyped Cyclon-centric Feb. 24 episode, "Downloaded."

Highly hyped? Anyone heard anything?
 
 
Hieronymus
23:36 / 12.02.06
Is that the one that's said to be written entirely from the Cylon perspective?
 
 
Seth
01:36 / 13.02.06
Would it be unfair on the show to compile a list of every loose end that's been left hanging and every important plot point that's occurred off-screen, and then e-mail the complete list to the writers? My concern is that they'd consider it as being the work of a bunch of geeks having too much invested rather than the contribution of a group of writers who want to pick some other writers up on their craft.

Well... perhaps both are true.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
04:00 / 13.02.06
from that Tvguide.com rumor posted above, I'm starting to think that Moore and Co. know exactly what they are doing, but getting some character centric stories in right now, before shit starts hitting the fan again. until now, the show really hasn't had the chance to flesh out most of the characters. perhaps all these "one-off" episodes will help make the forthcoming arc stuff resonate more.
 
 
Hieronymus
04:44 / 13.02.06
Tried to add the following episode description of "Downloaded" to my previous post but for some reason it didn't get approved. Be warned, it also includes links to a few spoilers on an upcoming two-part arc.
 
 
Seth
10:52 / 13.02.06
Are these shows about characters, though? I’m not convinced that there’s a single well-drawn character in the show. There’s a lot of grandstanding, a lot of extreme emotion on display, a lot of character traits revealed under pressure. But these traits seem divorced from any kind of basis in the person, and there’s seldom anything shown of a person outside of their function in terms of their job description or the role they must play in a script. This was why the scene that took place in Starbuck’s apartment in the first episode of Season 2 was so important to her character: it made her seem real. But alarmingly that scene stood out a great deal because there’s been very little of it for anyone else.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
17:06 / 14.02.06
Hieronymus, maybe it was turned down to try and keep the thread future spoiler free?
 
 
Hieronymus
17:27 / 14.02.06
Nope. Just pokey moderation. Now it's double-barreled spoilage.
 
 
Hieronymus
00:14 / 19.02.06
So did anyone see The Captain's Hand?
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
00:42 / 19.02.06
Yep.

It was pretty good, better than some of the recent ones and beginning to pick up steam for the forthcoming season finale.

Multiple dreidus contacts! looks like SPOILERS:












There were a lot of big developments in this episode: Lee is now Commander of the Pegasus (nicknamed 'The Beast') and Balthar has decided (on the advice of his curvy imaginary friend) to run for President. We get there through a fairly standard military-procedural plot on Lee's side and one of those 'the real world- IN SPACE!' plots on Balthar's side. The Pegasus, in command of a former engineer, jumps into a trap, gets knocked about a bit (by no less than three nuclear weapons), the commander has to go and fix the FTL drive, leaving Lee in charge of the Pegasus. His inspired tactics (point guns at enemies, fire guns) get him promoted after the former commander gives his life getting the FTL drive online.
Now, the other plot, which is more real-world and relevant, has Roslyn deciding on whether to allow abortion in the fleet. Balthar's wicked-awesome math5 5k1lls project than unless she bans abortion the human race will be extinct within eighteen years (around Season 5). When she announces this to the press, Balthar steps forward to say that he can't support this law, that any freedom we give up takes us closer to the Ter- Cylons, sorry, and he is running for presidency.
Overall, it was solid, it set up conflicts to be resolved (and Lee practically forgave Starbuck for shooting him). It was certainly far better than last week's episode. Unfortunately, all the stuff about Abortion law and giving up freedoms struck me as ratings pandering after a lot of articles in the mainstream press praising the show for being relevant and realistic. It will only remain so as long as the characters are real people, not just mouthpieces for Red and Blue America.
 
 
sleazenation
01:09 / 19.02.06
So Pegasus has had four commanding officers in the space of five episodes or so?

And this is supposed to be the realisitic space opera?

I'm not sure whether the acclaim in the US press builds me more disappointed in each new episode or if the series is doing that well enough itself...
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
01:29 / 19.02.06
no, the episode was really quite good. it felt more like season 1 in tone, with the politics and military tension. I was very happy with it.
 
 
sleazenation
09:42 / 19.02.06
Was it me or was there more stuff in this week's pre-cap that we had not seen before?

It struck me that this episode tried to pull off a little too much all in one hit and consequently failed to be convincing.

The statistic that the human race would be effectively extinct in 18 years if 'things carried on as they are' was little more than techno-babble, and techno-babble coming from an unreliable source. It wasn't convincing. I needed to be sold on it in far greater detail and I felt i needed that, then I'm damn sure the President would have read the relevant reports herself and consulted with Dr Cottle, who is likely to have more direct experience...

Secondly, as I see it, the law is not enforcable. The only person qualified to carry out abortions is Doctor Cottle, the only doctor in the fleet. If chose to ignore this law, as he would seem likely to do given his personal misgivings over any move to restrict abortion, there isn't a whole lot they could do against him. You can't really put the fleet's only Doctor in the Brig.

This lept out at me as being obvious, yet the script didn't even acknowledge the problem of enforcing the law. There wasn't time. A plot point was rushed and I was again left with the impression that I was watching a series of synopses rather than the whole show.

Next up we have Pegasus's new commander. We didn't have time to really meet him and be sold on his various deficiencies and rather unconvincing trust in his own crew over and above anyone from the rest of the fleet.

I was left feeling that what could have been a good episode had been screwed up for a desire to fit too much in... perhaps a further consequence of two very weak episiodes out of the past 3...
 
 
Seth
22:18 / 19.02.06
I missed the part where Cottle is the only doctor. Where was that? It's a little hard to swallow in a fleet that size.
 
 
sleazenation
22:42 / 19.02.06
It was established early on, either in the mini series or at the start of the first season...
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
16:58 / 23.02.06
the "cottle is the only doctor" thing is something that has been bothering me quite a bit. I find it hard to buy that a place like cloud nine doesn't have a doctor on board.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:57 / 23.02.06
Are we sure that Cottle is the only Doctor in entirety, or just he's the only trauma doc? If Cottle was the only Doc for the fleet he wouldn't have time to stand around chain-smoking in Galactica's medbay on the off-chance the Vice-President wants a brainscan done.

This was an improvement on previous weeks, I did like how Baltar is starting to become manipulative rather than being pushed everywhere by Six. The Captain Jellicoe on Pegasus (any massively incompetent officer on a sci-fi show is called Jellicoe after the massively incompetent Jellicoe on ST:TNG) was irritating, and might as well have been introduced as 'the guy who'll be dead by episodes end', it's not like they really made much of an effort to introduce some suspense into the situation is it? I would have prefered him to survive and been court-martialed for falling into the most blatant trap ever.

And hey, sucks for anyone who isn't the Admiral's son. How far up the chain of command has Lee jumped over the last few episodes? Didn't he get a promotion right soon after the show started?

I did quite like the abortion thing coming up, but I'm dubious. If abortion wasn't banned then no-one is having babies? But if it is everyone will have babies and no-one will reach for their wire coathangers? Is perhaps the reason that Baltar didn't show Roslyn his working because it was bobbins?
 
 
sleazenation
21:58 / 23.02.06
Cottle doesn't spend all his time on Galactica - hense him not being on the ship at the time Adama was shot and needing to be flown in at the start of season 2...

It's possible that there was a doctor on pegasus, but there is no evidence of that yet...

And the more I think about it, the less convincing and fake the whole reasoning behind outlawing of abortion feels. If having babies is so important shouldn't birth control be targeted? Shouldn't women of child baring age be excused all other duties to concentrate on motherhood? Isn't the logical end of this the republic of Giliad?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
20:42 / 25.02.06
this new Cylon-centric episode was pretty fantastic, I thought. The developments with the Boomer/Caprica Six partnership look to introduce a very interesting direction for the Cylons as a society... Also, did you catch that African American Cylon Model in the cafe? Didn't show us his face, but it's going to be interesting the next time someone close to that description shows up on Galactica.

Also, the baby stuff is going to be fascinating for Galactica Boomer + Helo's relationship with the Fleet. Now we have a Six + a Cylon baby shuffling around unbeknownst in the Fleet.
 
 
sleazenation
21:38 / 25.02.06
Hasn't it also been established that there are 5 more cylons concealed within the fleet? Galactica Boomer told Baltar during interrogation.

But yes - this week's episode was much, much better than last week's.

I'm still annoyed that the whole Doc Cottle thing has not even been mentioned... He has previously been painted as far too bolshy to meekly accept what has been going on and as the only fully qualified doctor in the fleet, he is in a position of power, something else that has remained unacknowledged...

The revelation that Caprica Six was actually killed on Caprica is interesting. It again begs the question about Baltar's survival... I had previously assumed that six had protected Baltar somehow, but it now seems likely that he actually died too... could he not actually be a cylon? I don't think there has been anything that would specifically rule it out, although it would strike me as stretching credibility somewhat...

Out of interest did anyone else notice that the neither boomer nor six had goop residue on their faces when they were in the birthing chamber. Presumably they should have been covered with it from head to toe...
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
22:32 / 25.02.06
didn't notice that, but it's a detail I could see someone forgetting...

I forgot to mention that the Baltar-in-Caprica-Six's head was...curious. It makes her constant presence in his head more mysterious...it's clear that something new and unprecedented happened at the moment the blast him them. some bizarre connection that does indeed lend itself to the idea that Baltar is some sort of super secret Cylon....leading me to believe that when we eventually meet the Cylon God, it will be wearing Baltar's face.

apparently next week is the first part of the final two-parter of the season! aieeee.
 
 
Lel
00:31 / 26.02.06
Cottle (Kottle?) is not the only doctor in the fleet. He is perhaps the only trauma surgeon, although even that I would find rather unbelievable.

For me personally, there were two major developments in this episode. Well, one in the episode and one in the online commentary. Sharon was never a real person (which in retrospect makes sense in that the Cylons were created each representing a piece of mankind, or so people say, perhaps more on this in previous commentaries I haven't heard). This was perhaps made clear sometime in early Season 1 and I simply missed it.

SPOILER ALERT – It is made clear in the commentary that the Six in Baltar's head (and the Baltar in Six's head) are in fact simply hallucinations brought on by their extremely traumatic experiences. A rather boring explanation for what is easily the most interesting part of this show.
 
 
MJ-12
02:20 / 26.02.06
but it now seems likely that he actually died too... could he not actually be a cylon

If that were the case, I don't think she'd have been as surprised that he was still alive with the fleet.
 
 
sleazenation
09:27 / 26.02.06
That so many 'revelations' are having to be explicitly stated in the podcast rather than coming accross convincingly in the show itself strikes me as a continuing weakness in Battlestar Galactica, and probably most specifically in the writing...

As for doc Cottle/Kottle, we have seen one or two paramedics, but none of them have the range of training that Cottle/Kottle has, not just in surgury, but also in fields such as oncology (not that he is an expert here, but he is by far the closest thing to an expert they have). Cottle/Kottle is a big important asset that has so far shown to be unique within the fleet, and I find it difficult to believe that he would not be pursuing his own agenda, particularly when people are attempting to enforce policies that he does not agree with. I find it even more difficult to understand why Cottle/Kottle's significance as a unique medical asset has not been reasserted.

If Baltar is not a Cylon who has 'gone native' (a possibility I still don't think we can entirely discount) we are left with the question of how he survived (or perhaps didn't) a nuclear strike on Caprica that killed the supposedly superior Caprica Six...

Oh, another thing I liked about this episode was the parallels between Caprica Six and Galactica Sharon and war vetrans who have their idealism and whole world view shattered by the brutalising situations they are place in by their political superiors...
The Cylons want to keep the majority of the humanocylon population ignorant of the true barbarity of war and how it dehumanizes everyone... errodes the high moral ground on all sides...
 
 
Disco is My Class War
13:02 / 26.02.06
I've been away for two weeks and just caught up on episodes 16 and 17. "The Captain's Hand" shows a welcome return to form. A, B and C plots! I'm almost convinced Ron Moore has remembered how to write for television! I was really disappointed with 'Scar' and 'Sacrifice'. Bad writing, inconsistencies, too much personal narrative and not enough focus on politics, the fleet, the 'outside'. And they killed off Billy. Assholes. (Did he finally get that gig elsewhere, a show he's in every episode of? He deserves it: he can act the ass off Jamie Bamber.)

My take on the abortion political wrangling: of course Baltar's figures were bobbins. Roslin is placed in a corber: on one hand, she has always been anxious about ensuring the survival of the 'humn race', etc. On a political level, she can't afford to alienate the religious nut constituency, who so far have supported her because of the prophecy guff. So she 'criminalises' abortion -- a stand that is obviously symbolic, because the police or whoever are surely not going to waste resources prosecuting those women who obtain abortions. It is, of course, exceedingly stupid. But if Baltar hadn't been playing her all along, that strategy might have worked. Instead, Baltar gets to take the moral high ground. Machiavelli would be proud.
 
 
Seth
14:26 / 26.02.06
That was superb. A self-contained story in effect, but one that has all kinds of lasting ramifications and also picks up on story threads that I’m not sure if any of us were expecting to be revisited. It also managed to be emotionally satisfying and had all sorts of fascinating character work between the Sixes and the Boomers, who are fast becoming the most interesting characters in the way in which they appear in different aspects and versions of each other. Some great effects work too.

Baltar is better in Six’ head than he is in reality, whatever he may be – Human, Cylon or something else. I can buy that he survived the nuke and that Caprica 6 died shielding him from the blast, as the detonation seemed sufficiently far away in terms of silly sci-fi physics, but I’m liking the fact that they’re keeping the ambiguity in place. Despite what they say in the podcast they’ve also kept hallucino Baltar and Six ambiguous in the text itself, and so they haven’t yet written themselves into a corner in terms of the show itself. They’ve given themselves room to change their minds, but part of me hopes they’ll leave it unexplained… after all, they’ve established that altered states can make one susceptible to some pretty useful visions (Roslyn’s drug induced prophecies, for example).

Boomer 8 and Caprica 6 are both alive at the episode’s end, both of whom have a new agenda to work towards… also Caprica 6 knows that Baltar is alive and Boomer 8 knows about Baltar’s involvement in the destruction of the human race as well as suspects him of continued involvement with the Cylons. Also it leaves Anders with plenty to mull over in terms of his understanding of Cylons, in that he previously had no qualms with indiscriminately killing them and now there are seeds of doubt planted in his head (I can’t remember whether he knew that Baby Boomer was a Cylon or not, although I’m pretty sure it is).

Meanwhile Baby Boomer (a name that I’m using as I don’t want to call her Galactica Boomer or Caprica Boomer, as they’ve effectively switched places now) has had her brief and fragile allegiance to the Fleet shattered by the apparent death of her baby, which could possibly turn her and Helo into renegades… yet more characters who may potentially have their perspectives altered enough to pursue a different agenda. As is Cottle… unlike Sleaze I can buy that Cottle is only vocal up to a point, that he is a man who focuses on compassion for the individual people he is working for and therefore has no great perspective on the bigger picture and is unaware of exactly how much influence he might have (assuming he is as much of an asset as Sleaze seems to think). I’d like it if he could only be pushed so far before turning against Roslyn, or at least pursuing his own goals. In terms of Hallucino-Six and Baltar, it’s business as usual. They’re inextricably linked it seems, and I’ve no doubt she’ll return to him even after her latest wall-slamming tirade.

The fleet seems to be concealing rather a lot of simmering problems at the moment. There’s Pegasus Six and her anti-war movement + nuke, unresolved/unmentioned tensions on Pegasus (that may only have been made worse by Apollo's promotion and incompetent command choices), Helo and Baby Boomer, the hidden Human/Cylon hybrid baby, Baltar for president, Zarek and whatever he’s plotting this week… and that’s without even mentioning Tigh’s wife, Starbuck’s rapid coming apart at the seams and quasi-religious quest for a lost Earth and Roslyn’s precarious role as the Emissary to the Prophets, with her being able to find no home/peace on Bajor/Earth… oops, I’m referring to this as a simultaneous DS9/Original Galactica remake again. Look at where a lot of the writing staff came from. DS9 seems to Galactica as Gunbuster does to Evangelion, although I'd prefer this show to exhibit some of the other's strength of characterisation.

I wonder exactly how many of these plot threads might feature in the two-part season finale.
 
 
Seth
14:35 / 26.02.06
As for no goo on the faces... who says that the brain is the coupling point for the memory transfer? The rapidly and thankfully dropped glowing red spine idiocy would seem to indicate that the link is elsewhere. But maybe it was as simple as the substance being harmful when it contacts the eyes of the actors, or reservations about its semenish quality on the faces of female actors depicted naked and immersed. Dunno.
 
 
Seth
14:37 / 26.02.06
Whatever else, that's the first Galactica episode I've been inspired to rewatch before the next one airs.
 
 
mikebee
16:33 / 26.02.06
i believe the african-american cylon first appeared in the episode where starbuck was injured/held hostage/impregnated while on caprica...
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:13 / 26.02.06
damn, you are right. totally forgot about that.
 
 
e-n
21:49 / 26.02.06
Excellent episode.

By the way I don't think anyones mentioned it but the second half of the season finale is due to be 90 minutes long.

There are pretty heavy spoilers for the finale plus some casting info for the next season on dark horizons so click only if you dare!

SPOILERS I repeat SPOILERS at the following link!

dark horizons
 
 
plasti-scene
00:13 / 27.02.06
Ok here goes, first post, and I'm new so if I violate any 'unwritten protocols' I apologize
******spoiler******* maybe
Well there was a bunch of 'threads' that were pulled, tied together and some new strands yanked form the weave and left dangling. The whole plot point about 6 carrying a version of Baltar around with her was something I never expected. Though one thing about the portrayals of these "visions" has got me wondering, Baltar's 'Vision of 6" is totally cylon, by that I mean exibiting all of the manipulative ways of a character trying to 'screw with the fleet' (albiet in very strange ways and even helping the fleet where it would serve to make Baltar more trusted and powerful" Though 6's 'vision of Baltat" acts way more human and caring than we have ever seen him in real life. Even though his dialog is sardonic and scornfull, there is an air of humanity in his voice and his advice seems to steer 6 toward less-cylon acts of mercy and compassion (something that her model isn't supposed to have, not to mention the L*** word. There's no mention of Sharon establishing a similar link with either of 'her (plural)' loves, so I don't think that this is normal, they're gonna have to do a good job at explaining that and making it believable. Now pegasus 6 is a time bomb and not the way we've been led to believe. She's another character who had spent enough time with humans in the right situations (the violence, and baltar's compassion) to seem to be able to change her programming (as the other 6 and Boomer), what does this imply for the emotional evolution of a cylon. On a final note, I what I thought really funny is that cylons don't all love though apparently scar can hate,so there are emotions in these machines at least a few (like selfpreservation (=fear), I think that was huge, ecspecially now that we realize that 6 can feel love and compassion, and the boomer + 6 team up is sure to start some sort of a revolution...or at least an uprising
 
  

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