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Battlestar Galactica Season 2 US Thread (SPOILERS)

 
  

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Bed Head
21:16 / 21.09.05
I'm glad that people are keeping tabs on plot (in)consistency on this thread. Because I feel like the cinematography and pace of BG dictate a flattened out, in-the-moment, 'forgetful' style of spectatorship.

Oh, agree with this, but I’m still totally hoping that they’re using that pace to hide stuff for later. Because, in spite of obvious holes like the instant spaceship and similar miracles, other parts have me crossing my fingers that they’ll turn out to be crazily interconnected. Don’t think the Cylons are ‘plugged in’ as such; I think their plans depend on successfully predicting what the human response will be all down the line, rather than responding to events as they unfold. Which could knit everything together to the nth degree, if you let it. Look at the chain of events that saw the virus getting into Galactica computers in the first place, and so eventually led to this week’s supposedly fleet-threatening, Boomer-redeeming emergency:

Adama - the anti-networking guy - is temporarily removed from command but not killed; A Base Star suddenly arrives out of nowhere, right on cue; They all jump away as per standard, ie entirely predictable, procedure, and Galactica ends up cut off from the fleet, so that networking is suddenly the *only* possible way of getting back to them. So, who’s fault is it that they’re in that situation? Actual responsibility for the jump coordinate mix-up is still unclear, but you might see the shooting as the first stage of the plan to have Boomer save the ship last week, if you wanted to.

Get in the right ‘it’s all a set-up!’ headspace, and you realise that we don’t even know for sure that the Boomer currently on Galactica is the same one who initially claimed to be pregnant by Helo, because *that* Boomer disappeared for a week or two (a week or two *our time*, and the point where Starbuck shoots at her and she runs away has been repeated in the pre-credits, like, a gazillion times already), and this one then appeared with a brand new spaceship and the express intention of getting Helo and Starbuck and herself back to Galactica. Where Six has been expecting her arrival, and - according to Baltar’s prophetic-style dreams when he was on Kobol - is also expecting Adama to lock her up, and has already begun setting Baltar up in ideological opposition to this course of action. Like, loooong before the cage is even thought of or built. And weeks later, Boomer turns out to be the only one who can save the ship/fleet/entire human race. Because of the virus that was set going before she even arrived.

I mean, there’s planning, and then there’s this.

In fact, that’d almost be *the* reason to have a Boomer shoot Adama, right there: so as to shape his response when another Boomer shows up. There’s been a lot of focus on Adama’s personal response to the Boomer model, rather than on any *physical* repercussions of his shooting - after all, he apparently had major surgery and spleen damage and properly traumatic stuff like that, and yet was hiking around the mountains of Kobol pretty soon after. The writers aren’t remotely interested in the physical consequences of being shot in the guts. It’s all been about him and her. He's set up to hate her, at which point everyone else is set up to tell him he's too personally involved to be rational or objective about her.


(Has anyone noticed how non-pregnant Boomer looks, by the way? Surely she should be showing by now. It's been months.)

(Has it been months? I’m not sure, and without any proper reference points, I can’t tell. But then, I’m All About TV-time being super-compressed since I re-watched Twin Peaks recently: I’m half-way through Season 2 when Cooper tells someone that he’s been in Twin Peaks for a total of 11 days, and my BRANE EXPLODES. The timespan of entire series, from Cooper arriving in town to his disappearing into the Black Lodge is only, like, just over a month or something. It’s kinda amazing. So, I’d be perfectly happy with it only being a few days or a week or two or something since they all got back to Galactica, if it weren’t for really stoopid things like that damn spaceship-building project mucking everything up. But Mister Disco, I think you’re totally right: the launching of the Blackbird would make sense with a Roslyn-about-to-die cliffhanger or major plot thread next week. Damn, I’m thick. I just couldn’t figure out what the hurry was for; why couldn’t I see that?)
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
02:05 / 24.09.05
HOLY CRAP THAT WAS GOOD.

Hell, when I saw the "discretion ahead" notice about halfway through, I had no idea what to expect, but it quickly got intense with the interrogation scene and Helo and Tyrol going apeshit. That easily one of the more violent moments I've seen on TV in a long time.

Insane. At least the wait isn't super long (just until January).
 
 
sleazenation
09:08 / 25.09.05
I guess they had to underplay it just to get it broadcast, but I wanted a little more out of that scene - it lets the audience off too lightly. THere is also the problem of the Pegasus crew not being given sufficient airtime. 1 hour was not enough time to introduce all these new characters, give them sufficient depth and convey the they narrative sucessfully.

I felt that we needed more time for the pegasus crew to develop, - ideally we would have met them a few episodes before we got to to the crisis point between Cain and Adama and their two different styles of military leadership. With just one episode it's all too easy for the audience to let their loyalty to familar characters take over and 'other' all the abhorrant behaviour of much of the pegusus crew.

Similarly the Atlanta crew that are boasting about the raping of hybrid females are all men - that really lets the audience of lightly with the illusion that women could never condone, much less celebrate and enjoy the brutal treatment of other (enemy) women.
 
 
Bed Head
13:09 / 25.09.05
Jeez, I certainly didn’t feel like I’d been let off too lightly. That scene was fucking horrible. Also, crass and simpleminded, and I don't really think that's because we hadn't had enough time to get to know the Pegasus crew. I thought last episodes massacre scene had been well set up: uncertain, complex and everything; suddenly all that moral uncertainty is wiped away and instead we get to watch a dopey Abu Ghraib parallel, with the Pegasus crew presented as a simple aberration, as an isolated and entirely self-contained unit gone rogue, in contrast to the good guys of Galactica. From the first episode, Adama’s been giving speeches about humanity’s complicity in their fate, how their own nature and actions led to them being chased across the galaxy, and yet all that seems/is diminished by the arrival of an irredeemably ugly bunch of humans who really, really deserve what’s coming to them. I mean, that's the function this episode serves. To reset the compass. The crew of Galactica are all *heroes*, you got that?

Still. To pick the diamonds out of the dogshit: So, the Pegasus has been *following* the Cylons towards Galactica? Well, Adama must surely have twigged in the first interview with Cain that the Pegasus has been brought to them by the Cylons, otherwise he’d have asked how their super-modern Battlestar managed to avoid being remotely shut down by the whizzo Cylon computer trickery that took out the rest of the fleet. I mean, that’d be a security concern for the new flagship of the Colonial fleet, right? So maybe, if he’s held back from telling her, it’s because he wanted to leave that vulnerability right where it is. Er, possibly. Although, if that’s where this is going, and the Pegasus will be shut down in a Cylon attack next episode, that doesn’t really tally too well with Cain going through the Captain’s log, so I dunno...

Also, the linkage between the feeling of superiority, and cruelty. The Cylons have been allowing Cain to score military victories, and the Pegasus pilots have responded by painting scorecards on their ships and acting like total arseholes, is that it? They've been set up to swagger like conquerors, what with their super-modern swish Battlestar, and all. Whereas the run-down Galactica and fleet all know damn well that they don’t stand a chance against the Cylons, and so are more humble, and so are the good guys? Ew, it’s all a bit unsubtle. Again, I thought that massacre scene last episode was a teensy bit more complex than that...

Also, absolutely no indication of how the Pegasus crew know that their Six is a Cylon, or even how they came to realise that Cylons can look like people. Which was a Shocking Revelation to Galactica, and a Big Secret for most of Season1, iirc.


And, I have to disagree that more time could have been taken in telling this episode. Didn’t want to know more about the Pegasus or its crew, other than how they relate to Galactica’s story; just wanted that relationship to be more interesting, is all. Wanted to learn something about Galactica's crew other than just how fucking great they all are.

But, was rather pleased to finally have a Season2 episode that rattled along at a fair old pace from start to finish. Also, anyone else see a leap in production values this episode? The sets looked to be bigger, the FX shots were more complex (oh, God help me, but: geek love for the shot that followed and panned around a Raptor as it landed on the Galactica fight deck, with the Pegasus visible in the background. I do love it when the Battlestars look ginormously huuuge.), and there seemed to be more extras all over the place, in the Galactica corridors as well as on Pegasus. And there were even some new pieces of music, I think: two different bits of reverby guitar noodling, as Baltar talks to the traumatised Six, and when the Pegasus first appears. Little things, but since we’ve been hearing that bagpipe piece so much, it was nice to have some new textures.

Sorry, I’m talking about spaceships and nonsense again. There’s certainly more to be said about the way the character of Boomer has been developed in this episode, and over the course of this series, because it’s something that has been leaving me increasingly uneasy; this episode was just the latest example. But that’s a separate post.
 
 
sleazenation
14:17 / 25.09.05
The other important thing that is not broached is Six and how she was completely unaware of Gina's (as the cylon in the pegasus brig is apparently known) fate...

Outside of that bedhead - i think we are heading towards the same point from different directions. The central point is the 'othering' of the abhorrent behaviour of Atlanta's crew. The making aberrant of the abhorrent, if you will.

For me, one improvement would be to have had the Atlanta as part of the fleet for longer, so the slow and subtle shift of what is acceptable could be more sutle and nuanced over a longer period of time and could apply members of both crews from the Galactica.

As Bedhead points out, one of the most important recurring motifs in Galactica is man's fundermental inhumanity, as played through their relations to the cylons and themselves. It's an important and ambitious theme to be sure, but it is also a theme that is severely diminished by a refusal to portray the universal capacity for inhumanity. To put it another way, the theme is hamstrung if the galactica crew aren't equally humanly inhuman as other human characters...

Does that make sense?
 
 
Bed Head
15:00 / 25.09.05
Absolutely, and you’re right: I’m not really disagreeing with you or the central point about ‘othering’. I’m still really annoyed by this turn of events. The more I think about it, the more of a letdown it seems. But I do think it was probably a fundamentally flawed decision to use 'the Pegasus' for this purpose, and more screen time wouldn’t have helped. The Galactica had *already* been slowly and subtly moving towards/recoiling from the Pegasus position: interring without trial, summary execution of Cylons, with both the audience and the main characters being kept unsure where to side or what is justified. Last night’s episode was astonishingly clumsy stuff, and pretty much wiped Galactica's slate into the bargain.

That’s probably why I grasped at the idea that the Pegasus could still be ‘switched off’ by the Cylons, actually. Switch them off. Move on. Give me my bloody programme back.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
15:41 / 26.09.05
suddenly all that moral uncertainty is wiped away and instead we get to watch a dopey Abu Ghraib parallel, with the Pegasus crew presented as a simple aberration, as an isolated and entirely self-contained unit gone rogue, in contrast to the good guys of Galactica.

I totally disagree, for once. I don't think this situation is morally certain at all. I would have appreciated more time, but I like how sudden this episode is -- how it creates an impression that things would never have worked, never were going to.

[An aside: isn't the ship called the Pegasus? What's the Atlanta? Did I completely miss something? Are we watching the same show?]

So, why do I disagree? I think the Pegasus represents the entry of a more 'proper', by the book military command. David Eick says this is the podcast, but every criticism Cain makes of Adama's leadership and his crew is correct, from a command point of view. Pegasus isn't rogue: that's precisely how the military is supposed to work, particularly under a state of emergency. And the Pegasus isn't represented as isolated, either: it signifies the return of the 'real' Colonial Fleet. They are, in fact, engaged in the War, rather than on some crazy utopic/religious mission to find a planet that possibly doesn't exist. Previous to this, I had been worrying about the militaristic politics of the Galactica itself, particuarly during the martial law episode. Now look: here's the real thing. It brings the Galactica's weird intimacy with the 'enemy' into full relief. Here are Tyrol and Helo killing someone (Tyrol's jealous rage towards Helo last episode just redirects, actually) and why? Because systematic, 'cold', deliberately callous violence is worse than the 'hot', passionate, intimate violence they've all already exercised towards Boomer in the past. Neither looks good. The enemy is no longer Cylon, 'that Thing', but the return of the Law. Let's hear it for that wacky libertarian (anti) humanism....

However. I was asking myself the same question about Cylong jamming. But it seems that the writers have made a decision to paper over plotholes in order to play out particular questions or problems. And since they're problems I appreciate, I figure I can take it.

(If any of you are critical theory geeks and read Agamben, I'd be interested to know if you think tortured Gina realtes to 'bare life' here and how this episode thinks in relation to Agamben's and Benjamin's ideas about states of emergency. And gender politics -- which is not Agamben, but a friend of mine is blogging about it very eloquently here.)
 
 
Disco is My Class War
15:48 / 26.09.05
It seems I can't keep away from this thread, still have more to add. I too feel uneasy about Boomer's character development... She used to be far less passive. Now she's what? A foetus carrier slash passive source of intelligence whose only active role here was those crrrrrrazy difficult sit-ups at the beginning of that scene?
 
 
sleazenation
16:11 / 26.09.05
My fault - Atlanta was another battlestar from the original Galactica, I meant Pegasus
 
 
sleazenation
19:25 / 26.09.05
While I agree that Admiral Cain's criticisms of Adama's conduct is largely legitimate, as Ronald D Moore points out in his podcast, I wouldn't necessarily agree that the crew of the Pegasus are working strictly within military law - they seem to have a rape cape going on in the brig... It is as yet uncertain as to whether Admiral Cain is aware and condoning (implicitly or explicitly) The rape of prisoners of war/war criminals. (it remains uncertain to what extent Cain's vague assertion of Gina's responsibility for the deaths of 600-odd crew).
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
12:35 / 27.09.05
I think it would be a stretch for the Admiral not to know how the Cylons are being treated, I know we have a history of shows where the First Officer and other crew members conspire to keep the Captain out of the loop, but if she doesn't know and court martials Helo and Tyrrel without finding out their reasons then she's stupid and corrupt. If she's corrupt it follows that she probably would know about the treatment of the Cylons and condone it.

My opinion is that pretty much from the start she wants Adama's command and, as it's wartime, decides the best way to achieve this is through conflict rather than ordering him to step down. There's a series of provocations, such as taking his best pilots and transferring them, the arguments she used against both Apollo and Starbuck are the arguments you'd use if you were going to fire them from service. If she truly wanted to know what Boomer knew about the mysterious Cylon ship she would have told Adama to find out, not send in her own team to interrogate the prisoner. The logs clearly show that Boomer, for whatever reason, is working with the Galactica crew, so it would logically suggest that you get them to ask her for information first before you send in Lietenant Rapealot. She's doing whatever she can to provoke some sort of response and this gets it.

I didn't see anything in the episode to suggest that Pegasus hadn't also worked out what the problem was and shut their main computers off, like Galactica.

It's a shame that time constraints meant that the Pegasus crew had to be shown as pretty much eeeeevil from the get-go.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
19:31 / 27.09.05
The obvious eeeevilness of the P's crew also damaged the cliffhanger for me a bit as well... when Rosslyn was mutinying against Adama, I found it a lot more involving because above and beyond any physical dangers faced by the characters, the characters on both sides were characters I cared about, and I could sympathise with both points of view. To an extent, I was more concerned with how fractured relationships could be repaired afterwards than anything else. This time it's fairly fucking obvious who the good guys are- all that's left is hoping they do okay. Which is still exciting... just not quite as interesting.

That said, it was a good episode (if a little- well, okay, a lot rushed), and a good cliffhanger to end on. And the moment when Adama, who up to this point has been eating the shit Cain's feeding him like a good soldier, suddenly orders the marine strike team- well, that was a "fuck YEAH! Adama!" moment right there.

Fucking January, man. With only one episode of Doctor Who to keep me going, and that not till Christmas...
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
20:50 / 27.09.05
not a Lost fan, Stoatie?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:30 / 27.09.05
Heh... missed it for the last 3 weeks, but have just been handed a shiny VHS of 'em... that'll be me for tomorrow, then!
 
 
e-n
12:44 / 08.10.05
On the pegasus I'd have to say that they've left a little bit of ambiguity regards they're complete evil-ness, no?

I mean its only Tighs' drunknen opinion that the "new" XO was telling the truth about the other one getting shot.

Moving the two crews closer together would initially be bad for morale within the galactica's "family" but from the more military point of view it could be considered the correct decision. Kane needs to get all crews working as one as quickly as possible and there's always going to be some conflict.
Note that while we didn't see Admirial Kane presiding over the court martial it doesn't necessarily mean that it didn't happen.
During war what would happen if two soldiers came to the aid of an enemy prisoner resulting the death of a superior officers. Three may be breathing room there.
I think that apollo and starbucks reactions to being re-assigned was indicitave of how the chain of command has been diluted.
Someone else said that Kane "wants" Adama's command.
She already has it.
She's the commanding officer and has the more supposedly "battle-worthy" battlestar.

I was disappointed that yet again the fleet's opinions weren't shown.I'd have liked to have seen the quorom of twelve's opinion on the pegasus' arrival.
But I won't nitpick, this season has gone in so many directions and come up with so many unexpected gems such as the pyramid teams of caprica,starbuck's abusive childhood, multiple sharon's , help and tyrel, dee and the other "background" charatcers coming to the fore that I'm quite happy to relax and get with the (cylon) plan.

And I'm sure Tom Zarek will turn up sooner or laterto giove out about it

Anything that isn't explained (and I admit the blackbirds completion was pretty quick) I expect will get explaied away in some future episode. I can't even begin to tryt and tie together the plot strands to see what the cylons plan is. but I'm happy with that as the characters have got me.
The only theory I can come up with is that humaity constantly ping pongs back across the galaxy somewhere lse - kobol-twelve colonies-earth- kobol etc. runnign from an enemy that we either create or come acrtoss and then build legens to let them know how to do it again.

that reminds me of something I was thinkiung about while all the discussion about the religious aspects of the earlier episodes. The religion in battlestar is a lot more tied in with history that it couldb from our point of view.
They all know that there really were Lords of kobol and their scriptues and propheicies were written at a time when spaceflight was possible. That might inidcate that they have a much easier time beliving any ofg it that we would as most of our religions were founded along differnet lines.
I'm not sure either, has it been made clear that kobol was MORE technically advanced thatn the humans are now or les?

On another fan pleasing note , how many known models of cylon have we got now?
I've got:

1.Number six
2.Kevin Spacey model who got ditched on the station in the pilot movie
3.The type that Rosalyn had thrown out of the airlock
4.Boomer
5.The doctor from "The Farm"
6.Xena warrior news reporter (lucy lawless)

am I missing any?

Apologies for the rambling, I've been staying away from this thread until I'd watched all ten off th downloads and I just have.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:38 / 08.10.05
Good point re the evilness of the Pegasus crew- it could always be a few bad apples.
But we've been led to believe that they're all total fuckers- while this may not be the case, it still weakens the cliffhanger for me in comparison to Rosslyn v Adama.
 
 
sleazenation
08:04 / 09.10.05
I realise this thread has a dirty great banner saying spoilers at the top, but how would people feel aabout me posting fairly well founded rumours for what5 is going to happen next on galactica?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:33 / 09.10.05
I figure we could afford another thread for what is effectively another season. I'd like to keep discussing stuff we've seen without spoileriness. As usual, though, I'll go along with what everyone else says.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:23 / 09.10.05
I would rather you didn't post it here to be honest. But what position are we in. Are we in a mid-season hiatus or have we finished series 2 and are waiting for series 3?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
16:43 / 09.10.05
I agree with the Lady.

I think there was a discussion about that type of thing somewhere else...perhaps a Policy discussion...can't remember if anything was "decided" or not. But I'd personally rather not know about anything happening in the future, if it can be helped.
 
 
Seth
04:07 / 22.10.05
It'd be interesting to list everything that we know for sure at this stage, purely because we can challenge a fair old few of our individual assumptions in doing so. We probably know an awful lot less for definite than we'd like.

For example we can pretty much assume that any information imparted by Cylons to Humans is dubious or outright false unless there is other confirming evidence. Nothing they say can be taken at face value... so we don't necessarily have to believe that imaginary Six was surprised to see abused Six aboard the Pegasus, or that abused Six is really traumatised, or that Boomer didn't know exactly what interrogation methods would be used. These aren't humans, and we don't know which way the writers are playing the ambiguity cards yet.

As far as the thirty-minute ship building in your spare time goes... that's starting to become an ongoing theme of Moore series. Explorers, anyone? At least that episode had the ludicrous MC Hammer joke and some fireworks.
 
 
fluid_state
05:11 / 22.10.05
The ship-building problem is kind of funny - in some interview, Moore mentions that one of his chief complaints as a writer on Voyager was the way shuttles were magically restored/rebuilt between one episode and the next, as though the crew had limitless resources even when hunted by the Borg. I think showing a little of the construction process, as well as establishing the Chief's obsessive desire to lose himself in "the work", is more than enough to imply that that, yeah, he and his crew can do the impossible. Sometimes.

As for what "we know", yeah, sounds good. This is the only thing that comes to mind off the top, but seems to be a key piece of info about cylon communications:

1) The human-cylons on (presumably) Caprica didn't know Boomer's baby was alive until they got, uh, Xylon's transmission.
 
 
sleazenation
07:30 / 22.10.05
The ambiguity cards are stacked. Even if we've been shown something that ostensibly works, such as Baltar's cylon detector, we have no way of knowing if it really does work with 100% efficacy. We don't even really know if it works at all given that Baltar's mind is unbalenced and that Six seems to have some ability to effect her physical will.
 
 
Seth
11:20 / 22.10.05
Just a guess... nothing spoilerific... but given that the ten episodes that are likely to air in 2006 - based on the kind of timescale that has been set up so far - will probably cover around three weeks to a month in terms of show continuity, Rosslyn will probably die in the season finale. In which case I can see a huge and impressive funeral - yes, with bagpipes and possibly some of those snare drum flourishes - followed by the final scene of the series being her memories being downloaded into the next Rosslyn.

As I say, just a guess. But the credibility of the show will be stretched too far if her cancer gets cured or her life-expectancy extended indefinitely. The cancer has to have consequences. So you kill the character but keep the actor, and have a much better villian set up for the rest of the series. You take the character who can cause the most problems and put her in the position of most influence, classic drama strategy.
 
 
Seth
11:31 / 22.10.05
I have to say... the more I think about it the more I'm sure that's the way they're going to go. She rounded up the survivors, she persuaded Adama to run, she fulfilled the prophecies (which as sleaze mentioned haven't been seriously questioned yet), she ordered Starbuck to get the Arrow, in the process rescuing Caprica Boomer she found the way to Earth. It's exactly the kind of kick in the teeth that will get the best reaction out of Adama, the rest of the principle characters all pretty much love the shit out of her and it will pave the way for Zarek and Balthar to get more political power, which again serves the writer's interest in creating more conflict.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
16:19 / 22.10.05
i certainly think that is an interesting route to go. are you thinking that the current Rosslyn is a "sleeper" model? That she doesn't know she is a Cylon? We never did find out what Leonon whispered to her before being spaced.

Will she become an out in the open Cylon? Or somehow do a "i'm back from the dead, cause, like, i'm a prophet or whatever"?

The quick ship building didn't bug me much. I mean, it was pretty basic and clearly had a few problems, it wasn't perfect. I watched that episode again the other day and was pretty impressed with it as a standalone.

I would really like for them to delve a bit more into the Kobol gods and all that. Who were they? How did they prove themselves to the humans that they were gods?
 
 
Seth
23:29 / 22.10.05
Yeah, the current Rosslyn programmed as a sleeper model, subsequent ones much more like Balthar's other half. That'd be sweet as.
 
 
Seth
23:53 / 22.10.05
My main problem with the prophesies so far is that there is no sense of them in their entirety. At present there is a vague notion of prophecy, and relevant sections pulled out as and when a specific episode requires. The writers therefore have them as a means of supporting any decision they happen to want to make at the time, rather than setting up an internally consistent mythos. Although how you get around that is tough... you either introduce flashbacks to the prophet (which would be very lame if handled badly) or have very dialogue heavy sequences that are fundamentally about theology.

The other issues I have are more of a personal nature. Having grown up with prophecy and prophets as something commonplace and directly relevant to my life and decisions the show seems to shortchange the amount of self-doubt, second-guessing, judging and weighing that goes on, as if you either have faith or you don't. Which is not how these things play out in actuality. Taking that other Ron Moore series, Sisko's relationship with the Prophets was more satisfying, in that he actively rebelled against them until he was placed in situations that gave him practically no choice but to act in accordance with them (Accession in particular), and then struggles to find loopholes in the texts that will give him some kind of basis in his uncertainty that he's doing the right thing (Favour the Bold). His discomfort and doubts were writ large into his character and choices, effecting the narrative.

I guess this leads me to my only other criticism of Galactica, even though it's early days yet... we have character types and traits with strong performances as opposed to actual characters for the most part. The fine detail and level of nuance to a fully realised portrayal is missing, as so many of the stories move too fast for quieter character beats. We know these people in crisis only, where every other shred of them is missing because it isn't relevant to the show at the time (and may never be if it continues in its current vein). Perhaps I'm too used to DS9's level of downtime in which darts and drinks, discussion of art and literature and cooking were often given prevalence over other aspects because the show was foremost about its people. You felt as though you knew Curzon and his massive importance despite him never having a single line of dialogue or appearing for more than a fragment of a scene in the pilot. That's quite a feat.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
05:29 / 23.10.05
You know, you're right, and that's why I liked Helo and Starbuck's quiewt moment on Caprica.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
05:40 / 23.10.05
helo and starbuck in starbucks's apt on caprica was a really beautiful scene. the piano music coupled with starbuck's paintings made for an interesting character backdrop to their little respite from running. they got a small break, and it really gave me a good insight into both of their characters, especially starbuck (who needed that other personal side to her character).
 
 
Bed Head
21:43 / 08.12.05
So. Was thinking about this ‘Is Laura Roslin a Cylon?’ thing the other night, as someone lent me their DVD of season 1 and I got to see “33" for the first time. Found myself instinctively kicking against the possibility. But, still, her actions in that early episode might kinda fit the theory.

I also tend to resist any suggestion that Baltar might be a Cylon, which is another one I’ve seen about on the interwebnet. Seems to me that his character arc is central, that he’s been very carefully nudged along since the very first time we saw him: in the miniseries, he says that he doesn’t believe in any God, doesn’t want children, and when he’s asked straight out he refuses to say that he loves Six. And yet look at where we are now, with Baltar totally into the whole idea of protecting/being responsible for a Human-Cylon child, believing in God to the extent that he thinks he’s “God’s instrument”, and when he’s finally confronted with a real, flesh and blood Six, he wakes her from a catatonic state by admitting that he loves her.

It’s quite a turnaround, and the events in “33" are one of the first steps towards pushing him there - Six is trying to convince him that his escape from Caprica is proof that God has a plan, and that he’s a Big Part of that plan. There’s a sort of standoff sequence which sees Six insisting he accept the existence of God by repenting his sins, and the prez actually seems to hold off ordering the destruction of the Baltar-threatening Olympic Carrier until his acknowledgement of God’s hand in all this has been duly witnessed by the tall blonde lady in his head.

So, maybe that kinda fits. Might just have been a meaningless writerly flourish, but then again, maybe it was a Really Significant Moment revealing the prez's cylon-ness. But still, I kick against that, because, I think, I much prefer the idea that the Cylon plan is all about prompting, and having correctly predicted the human response to those prompts, rather than by leading.

It's not really conventionally dramatic to have a villain that's already anticipated and planned for everything they're going to do, and it’s probably more difficult to write scripts that can accommodate a scheme like that and still maintain audience doubt and dramatic tension and all that important stuff. But it still seems like the kind of thing a race of computers would come up with, something that's kinda like the way chess computers beat human opponents, maybe. But if Roslin is a Cylon, then their Big Plan was pretty much just to kill everyone and kill everyone until their sleeper agent was in charge of the entire human race - that whole thing with her transmitting her identity code, and talking about the chain of presidential sucession, in the miniseries - and then having her lead everyone by the nose to wherever they want. And there’s just too much of a conventional, human-like structure to that plan, whether there’s all the emotional stuff with her turning out to be a sleeper agent or not. It's a stupid plan. I want it to be impossibly clever.

Also, we’ve seen scenes with her on her own and she’s been crying about having cancer and has shown no indication whatsoever that she thinks she might be a Cylon. Unlike Boomer, who was frightened of herself from day 1.

And anyway, I think it’d be the programme makers showing their hand too soon. The whole ‘everything that happens is all part of the Cylon plan!’ interpretation seems pretty obvious in the right light, but I’ve scanned the BSG threads on a couple of other boards *cough*JohnByrneForum*cough*, and it seems they can’t see this at all, it’s all just been Scarey Robots vs Army Spaceships to them. In fact, the enjoyable part of this show, for me, is all the various degrees of doubt as to what’s a total set-up and what isn’t. But that’d all be pissed away by revealing that Roslin, the person who assembled the fleet, whose idea it was to flee, who has been leading humanity away from Caprica and has been taking Key Decisions every step of the way, has in fact been a Cylon all along. It’d be quite a swerve, to make that 100% clear. Not saying that’s a bad thing, but still.

Besides, I’m still wanting *Apollo* to be a cylon. I know, I know, I know: Apollo has a family, so that would necessitate some new, previously unseen Cylon ability to be able to copy existing people rather than just create new ones from scratch, but still. It’d be great.

Clues? There’s the *bizarre* incident in the miniseries - Lee has been picked up by Colonial One, notices there’s a couple of “pulse generators from Galactica” sitting in the hangar bay, doesn’t know why they’re there. Then the Cylons are closing in, and he sets them off and generates a pulse which happens to fuck up Galactica’s view of them. Then everyone on Colonial One wakes up an unspecified period of time later, and the Cylons have gone. Those pulse generators were placed there by persons unknown; that Cylon attack was to prompt him to set them off. And the original Lee Adama, the one that was a total 100% arsehole, was switched at that point - and he was mid-way through a prickish argument with his dad when he went to set the pulse off - and the Lee that we’ve seen since, the nice one that *doesn’t* really hate his dad, the one that’s managed to build up a really strong father-son bond, the one that the other pilots on Galactica like, that one is really a Cylon. It'll boil Adama's nut.

That’s why a defenceless Lee wasn’t shot on sight by that Centurion in ‘Valley Of Darkness”, that’s the Adama in the “Adama is a Cylon” that line Leomen whispered to the Prez, with her staring out Commander Adama straight after just being yer classic misdirection.

I’m only speculatin’, obviously. But I’m reeeeeaaaally hoping I’m right, if only so that arsehole original model human Lee can then make a return, with nobody on Galactica really liking him as much as that nice Cylon Lee.
 
 
Bed Head
21:51 / 08.12.05
Oooh. Also, fwiw, transcripts of lots of new cast/programme-maker interviews linked to from the BSG site. The Ron Moore one is the only half-way interesting one, I’d say; no-one else knows anything/gives anything away. But still, I'm not just all about blathering on forever about nonsense. Sometimes I bring links.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
13:34 / 20.12.05
BSG DVD Set 2.0 out today!

and the show returns to regular episodes on January 6th. Hurray.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:34 / 20.12.05
Wicked! Only a fortnight after the Dr Who Christmas special... (what with the new Kate Bush album, Dr Who and Battlestar Galactica I sometimes think I've gone back to my idyllic 80s childhood...)
 
 
Disco is My Class War
16:39 / 07.01.06
bump

So -- the verdict?
 
  

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