BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Infinite Crisis

 
  

Page: 1 ... 2021222324(25)2627

 
 
Sniv
07:33 / 27.03.06
I think the main point with Johns is that he's a fairly invisible writer, at least sylistically. You're not reading 8C for Johns, you're in for the characters. It's like - you're reading old Doom Patrol, and you can tell, through various methods like the style of speech, the content/structure of the story - it's Morrison. You're reading Daredevil, you knew it was Bendis. Johns could be anyone, it doesn't matter, he's like a writier on Star Trek or something - so mainstream and 'normal' that he's practically invisible, it's almost like the stories are just happening. I think Johns just happens to be the living embodiment of continuity, or perhaps he is just a pen-name for various editors to write under... that could explain the slightly qnti-septic nature of his writing. I'm not entirely sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. One the one hand, yeah, here's a writer without much style or pizazz, but otoh, he's letting us continuity freaks indulge ourselves in ways that we only get to do in this one medium.

8C and the like are for us continuity-loving, fan-wanking fat-beards. You don't like it, go read some b&w goth comics, eh?
 
 
Robert B
10:22 / 27.03.06
8C and the like are for us continuity-loving, fan-wanking fat-beards. You don't like it, go read some b&w goth comics, eh?
I'm not even sure what that means. Goth comics? I think I'm with Finderwolf when it comes to Infinity Crisis. Two issues left to pull everything together seems like quite a feat. I don't know if I would say Johns is transparent. I'm just not a fan for the most part. Flash is a good example. His run started off great and then just sort of imploded at the end with the Rogue's War thing. Green Lantern is another example. Rebirth was a good story but the new monthly has been pretty boring. Transparency has nothing to do with it IMO.
 
 
Mario
10:32 / 27.03.06
My only real problem with Mr. Johns is his tendency to write for the splash page. Especially if said page is the last page of the issue.
 
 
Sniv
11:02 / 27.03.06
I think judging the conclusions of a mini from the first two acts is a bit daft - surely that what the other two chapters are for. Y'know, finishing the story?

Also, I have no preconceptions that the end of 8C will wrap everything up. Of course it won't. There may well be a big fight somewhere along the line (I'm guessing it'll be Nighwing and Superboy vs Alex and SBP from the loks of it next issue), but it'll be setting up 52 as well.

Also - goth comics? Lenore (+anything by Roman Dirge), Nightmares and Fairy Tales, Gloom Cookie, Dogwitch, anything by Jhonen Vasquez. Nothing wrong with cutsey goth comics per se (some of them are even funny), it's just a tad less continuity heavy than DC these days.
 
 
Robert B
12:04 / 27.03.06
John,
You're right. I was rushing to judge a mini that isn't finished yet. I hope that the final two issues do bring it all together. I'm looking forward to 52 more than the conclusion of Infinite Crisis since I do happen to appreciate continuity. I guess I didn't realize not liking Johns meant I also didn't like DC continuity by proxy. Will take my vent against Johns and quietly back away.
 
 
Aertho
12:17 / 27.03.06
Has anyone heard about the return of another deceased character coming back by "wearing" a hero? That's right, to combat Anti-Muperboy...

J'onn J'onzz, Martian Monitor

Can anyone confirm?
 
 
Sniv
13:08 / 27.03.06
TreborBee - lol, don't worry about not liking Johns per-se, he is a bit like no-frills budget vanilla ice-cream made from pork-fat. Although, his Teen Titans can be pretty good, and I defy anyone who reckons that SBP going nuts was a weak issue - that shocked the hell out of me, I simply didn't see it coming. I suppose that's the mark of an... okay-ish writer?

Anyway, we need to focus on someone we can all hate. Rob Leifeld anybody?
 
 
Mario
13:21 / 27.03.06
Cass: That's a supposition based on some interpretations of the Brave New World cover.



It looks like Monny on the cover, and what little we see of J'onn could be the same outfit. Personally, I doubt it.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
13:31 / 27.03.06
I'm pretty confident that 8C can wrap up nicely, considering how much plot is crammed into each issue.

And honestly, I think Johns has a lot more going on in this series, and a great deal of his work, than just hand jobbing continuity (which he is exceptionally proficient at). The fact is, I think he's really good at writing old fashioned, root for the good guy superhero comics. I don't have thirty years of reading Flash under my belt, but when Barry Allen leapt out of the Speed Force to help Kid Flash first SBP, that was a Fuck Yeah moment, and those don't just get shit out of an editorial meeting. You have to craft a narrative, set obstacles in your protaganists' paths, build up to payoffs, etcetera. The ideas of legacy and responsibility might not be subtle themes, but 8C isn't a mindless punchfest either. I wouldn't rank this mini-series up with Infinite Jest or anything, but it's an engaging and well constructed read.

I honestly don't get a lot of the livid hate directed towards his work. Is it the distasteful violence? I mean, not to get ridiculous, but they were acts carried out by distateful people and in no way went unremarked upon.

It would be stupid of me to imagine that my tastes should be universally accepted, agreed upon, and then assimilated, but to categorize 8C as a worthless hackjob is, to my mind, a little disingenuous.

In the probably unneccessary spirit of full disclosure, I'll admit a fondness (bordering on obsession?) for the current vagaries of the DCU but I know a lot of my chums who aren't as financially invested in the current status quo who feel the same way about the series.

Depending on exactly if, when, and how Doomsday shows up, as has been alluded to in several OYL sources, the whole thing could indeed fall to pieces.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
15:05 / 27.03.06
I am kind of enjoying 8C and I certainly wouldn’t say it’s a bad book, and I certainly enjoyed Superboy Prime’s rampage mainly for the Sally Sonic-esque metatextual/schizophrenic ranting he was spouting during the business as well as numerous other scenes, especially Animal Man in issue 2 and most of the stuff with Lex. It’s just for me 8C seems to be a series of really great scenes which fail to hang together as one coherent narrative, and that for me makes it a frustrating read. It’s a problem I have with Johns work in general I think – the guy can turn out some of the best scenes in superhero comic books on a pretty regular basis but he just doesn’t seem to be quite able to put out whole stories which really match the potential he sometimes seems to show. Ah well that being the case I reckon there’s a fair chance I going to love his bits of 52.
 
 
Robert B
15:29 / 27.03.06
Shiney Things,
Thank you for capturing my feelings towards Johns. That's excatly my problem with him and, conversely, why I still buy several books written by him.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
14:17 / 05.04.06
S

P

O

I

L

E

R

S

KLARION AND TEEKL, MOTHERFUCKER!!

Oh, and Superboy dies saving the universe.
 
 
Aertho
14:46 / 05.04.06
I liked that kid. Pun not intended.
 
 
Mario
15:44 / 05.04.06
Not to mentin Zatanna. Given that we've already seen Shilo & Frankie, and there are rumors of Ystin in #7, things are not looking good for Alix.
 
 
Aertho
16:43 / 05.04.06
a series of really great scenes which fail to hang together

Again.

sigh
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
17:10 / 05.04.06
What, just because that Spectre scene served absolutely no purpose whatsoever? Geez, man.

Seriously, though. I still think this is an entertaining series but the OMAC Special implies that, apropos of nothing, the Society is launching a full scale attack on Metropolis, which one would imagine is the entirety of #7. Basically the story proper wrapped up in this issue. In retrospect, though, this series isn't about the plot threads or tidying up the multiverse. It's about the heroes of the DCU remembering why they do this. It sounds ridiculous and it sounds lofty and sounds completely full of shit, but this is at least the intent of the series.

Detective #818 and Teen Titans #34 get into the Batman side of things OYL and it's clear that he made a conscious decision to take a year off and train Tim with Dick's help. Harvey Dent observes that he's never seen a Batman and Robin working this well together. Obviously, Robin's ditching the Titans for a year has pissed off Cassie, who has gone Lone Wolf OYL in pretty kick ass fashion.

8C isn't necessarily just a reboot of continuity. It's a series of circumstances designed to cause each individual hero to rethink exactly why they do this sort of thing and adjust accordingly.

Too high minded for a Super-Hero crossover? Perhaps. And I certainly wouldn't claim that 8C or the DCU as a whole over the past two or so years has gracefully orchestrated and carried out this mandate, but it is in fact undoubtedly what they've set out to do.

As a series of fights, yeah it doesn't hold together very strongly, but as the clockwork gears that moving this whole machine forward, I think it does a very effective job.

And when you've got Jimenez delivering an immaculately illustrated death page like the one we get in #6, well, that's what sells the whole enterprise. It's clear that Conner's death is what galvanizes the entire DCU OYL and if Jimenez had slipped up even one iota, the whole enterprise would've been rendered moot. Luckily there's not even one pen stroke out of place. It's immaculate. And you get it.

Or you don't. I mean, it's all just a matter of YMMV, right? This is the way I've been experiencing the DCU for a long while now, and each individual's particular levels of fantastical delusion pheremones are completely unique. Like snowflakes.
 
 
garyancheta
17:55 / 05.04.06
I think Johns is really good with Reporting and being Literate. He can see a scene in his head and display it in a book. He's really good with that sort of work. He's also good at being quite literate in his work...tying together story arcs and writing effectively so that there aren't any typos or too much extra information that detracts from the scene.

If anything, I see Johns as a craftsman rather than an artist. He works to craft stories well for the general population. I don't think he has more of an agenda in his writing than that.

- Gary
 
 
COBRAnomicon!
18:51 / 05.04.06
Spoilery question:





















Is the Klarion/Teekl action major, or is it just a cameo? Or, to put it another way: if someone made a point of stopping by the comic shop on the way home from work purely in the hopes of seeing Klarion do big things, would this person be disappointed and swear off comics forever, shaking their fist with impotent rage?
 
 
Mario
18:54 / 05.04.06
As I understand it, not having seen the issue myself, it's a cameo in a group scene.
 
 
Aertho
19:05 / 05.04.06
He's in two or three frames, and says: "What in heaven is that?" in reference to the appearance of the Sprectre. I assume that in the fallout of 7S#1, Z and K run off to Stonehendge, and Miracle and Frank BOOM tube over to Chi-town. That leaves Guardian and Shining Knight in Cinderella City for issue 7, near to the Society ambush.

I don't want Alix to die!
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:24 / 05.04.06
Relax, it'll probably be 'I, The Spyder'. He's got a silly name and looks like a 90s superhero. So toast.
 
 
FinderWolf
00:19 / 06.04.06
I liked the death scene...and I felt torn between a) being kind of moved by it and b) wondering how many years before Connor Kent/Kon-El Superboy comes back to life (my prediction: 2).

The GL rings being "afraid" of Blue Beetle had the opposite effect on me; in Johns' effort to try to make the new BB seem cool, he made me laugh.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
02:14 / 06.04.06
The GL rings being "afraid" of Blue Beetle had the opposite effect on me; in Johns' effort to try to make the new BB seem cool, he made me laugh.
Yup.
 
 
This Sunday
04:24 / 06.04.06
That's not Johns making y'all laugh, that's the very singular superpower of Blue Beetle incarnate. Even when he's not Ted Kord with a bullet channel through his face, Beetle makes you laugh.
 
 
Mark Parsons
05:00 / 06.04.06
Blue Beetle is COOL!

Check out issue one, anyway. Nice writing & art. And I'm damned curios as to WHY the GL's rings freak out around Beetle.
 
 
Aertho
10:43 / 06.04.06
Green's weakness is Yellow. Blue's weakness is Green. Indigo's weakness is Blue... and so on. Rainbow coloured superweapons.

I bet the Scarab is an old badguy device. With history betwen it and Oa.
 
 
Mario
11:48 / 06.04.06
Depends on which origin you use. According to one story, the Scarab was actually created by Nabu, with the assistance (and the radio) of one of Rip Hunter's crew, who was stranded in the past. Last I checked, that story was still possible, if implausible.
 
 
smurph
14:14 / 06.04.06
the OMAC Special implies that, apropos of nothing, the Society is launching a full scale attack on Metropolis, which one would imagine is the entirety of #7.

I thought I had read somewhere that the Society attacking Metropolis would be the plot for the Vilians United special. Not that the "coming next issue" boxes have been very accurate lately, but the one in IC #6 says "Next In... Infinite Crisis #7 It's [sic] all comes down to a showdown with Superbox Prime. Who will survive?!"
 
 
Haus of Mystery
15:31 / 06.04.06
I liked it when Luthor looked at us lot. Very Animal Man.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:41 / 06.04.06
The excessive gore notwithstanding (what is it with Johns and gore these days? Hal Jordan rips off a villain's arm in the monthly GL book, Superboy rips Pantha's head off, and now...), Black Adam killing Psycho Pirate while scowling and saying "No more silly faces" did make me laugh, in a good way, while kind of surprising me. I guess once you've been a factor in 2 major DCU Crises, what more can be done with if you're the Psycho Pirate? Perhaps he'll actually stay dead for at least 10 years.

And if the last page of Johns' Teen Titans this week (the OYL issue) is any indication, my prediction for the Connor Kent Superboy returning in 2 years is off by about 1 1/2 years.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:57 / 06.04.06
Interesting article from ComicBookResources.com on the Superboy/Siegel trademark case and how it might affect the show "Smallville" as well as any Superboy characters in the future over in he DCU...

--------------------
According to an article in Variety, a federal judge recently dealt a blow to DC Comics in their current case against Jerry Siegel's heirs over ownership to Superboy, leaving the legal status of WB's Smallville in jeopardy.

Variety got hold of the March 23 partial Summary Judgment order by Judge Harold S.W. Lew of the Ninth Circuit District Court, where Lew ruled that Joanne Siegel and Laura Siegel Larson, Jerry Siegel's wife and daughter, respectively, successfully recaptured the Superboy copyright as of November 17, 2004. In addition, Lew made it clear that, in his opinion, the television program "Smallville" (since that date) is infringing upon the copyright of the Siegels. However, Lew did not make a ruling on the "Smallville" issue, leaving it to be determined at a copyright infringement trial.

Time Warner is appealing the ruling on the Siegel's ownership of the Superboy copyright.

The "Smallville" claim will go towards one simple decision - is "Smallville" a TV show about Superboy, or is it a show about a young Clark Kent? The difference might not seem like much, but what it boils down to is that DC (as of right now, as that is a matter of a separate copyright claim by the Siegels and the executor of Joe Shuster's estate) owns the copyright to Clark Kent, so if it was determined that "Smallville" is merely a show about a young Clark Kent, then Warner Brothers would be fine. However, if a jury determines that "Smallville" is based upon Superboy (presuming that Lew's ruling stands up on appeal), then Time Warner would be in quite a difficult position. The position of Time Warner is that a young Clark Kent appeared in the comic well before Superboy was introduced, so a young Clark Kent is a good deal different than "Superboy." The Siegel's side, of course, believes that not to be the case, citing the examples that the only "young Clark Kent" was an infant and toddler, never a teenager, and Judge Lew clearly leans towards the Siegels, stating in a footnote "In the Superboy comic strip, a billboard on the side of a rural country road announces, 'Welcome to Smallville! Home of Superboy."

The ruling was based upon changes made in 1976 to the Copyright Act, where the length of copyright renewal was extended from 28 years to 47 years, and allowed that any copyright transfers could be terminated so that the original copyright owner (or his/her heirs) could gain the benefit of those extra 19 years of protection (with the presumption being that it would be unfair to the original copyright owners, as any deals they made before the change were based upon the 28 year duration, not 47).

Please note that this does not affect the current legal situation that the Siegels are in with Warner Brothers over the rights to Superman, which is an entirely separate situation. The current Superboy situation derives from the first legal attempt by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster to reclaim their creation, Superman. That came in 1947, and while a judge ruled the next year in favor of DC Comics for the rights to Superman, New York state court Judge Addison Young ruled that Siegel was the sole owner of the separate character, Superboy (who had only recently been introduced in More Fun Comics #101 only four years earlier). Siegel and Shuster signed away all their rights to Superman and Superboy soon after, for about $100, 000.

Therefore, since a judge specifically ruled that Siegel owned Superboy at the time, it is pretty clear (at least in my legal opinion) that the deal made after the 1948 decision was a standard copyright transfer agreement, and that therefore, the Siegels were acting properly when, in 2002, they gave their two-year notice that they were terminating Time Warner's copyright. This termination went into effect in 2004, which Judge Lew has now confirmed.

The trial (which began in 2004, but has not even begun yet) will continue on the "Smallville" matter, and clearly, Time Warner will appeal the Lew summary judgment order. There is still a tricky road ahead for the Siegels and Time Warner, and that is not even getting into the Superman copyright issue, which is a much more convoluted mess.

Finally, as readers of today’s "Infinite Crisis" #6 can attest, DC has suddenly found itself short a character named Superboy. I'm certainly not suggesting that this necessarily has anything to do with the copyright infringement case, but please note that if Conner Kent were to return later, sans any Superboy connection (as in, a brand new name), then DC will have successfully avoided the copyright issue with Superboy. In addition, here’s an even trickier situation – DC currently still owns a trademark on Superboy, so no one can publish a comic using the name Superboy, even if they owned the copyright to the character! Therefore, DC can simply rename Conner Kent something else until the Siegel’s copyright runs out, at which point, they can return Conner (or whatever other character is introduced between now and 2023) to the name Superboy. In addition, as Time Warner has been quite willing to settle the case (in fact, one of their claims in the past involves their insistence that the Siegels already did settle, but decided to break the settlement agreement and therefore, the Siegels should be bound by the terms of the original settlement), this certainly does not hurt Time Warner’s negotiation position. In any event, it will be interesting to see what path this case takes in the future, as it could have a real impact on the comics we read and the TV shows that we watch.
-------------------------------------------------
 
 
FinderWolf
16:09 / 06.04.06
I heard there were last-minute changes to the final issues of IC - could this Superboy death (which wasn't mentioned or leaked by anyone at all until about 3 days ago, an astounding feat in comics these days) have been one of them? (It was mentioned in Batman and Teen Titans also, so it would have taken some coordiation) Or were the rumored last-minute changes mostly about the multiverse, as was previously speculated?
 
 
Mr Tricks
16:37 / 06.04.06
Found the art a bit erratic. The pacing was a bit off as well what with the need of at least one page to get Sups 1 & 2 and WW from earth 2 to the Fortress in time for that last splash page.

Also, if Green Lantern got batman there why wasn't he in that splash page?

Black Adam's Eyeball mask thing was feh it's like every issue needs one injection of gore. Blue Beetle is okay, but better in his #1. The Booster Gold Batman thing was amusing as was the BRAVE & THE BOLD bit with Green Arrow.

Alex and Earth prime was fun and reinforced by the presence of Zatana elsewhere.

Was that earth where Superman & Superwoman attack Wonderwoman and Batman based on Alan Moore's twilight of the superheroes proposal?

earth 97 . . . cute

Seems as though Issue 7 will be explanations.
 
 
Aertho
17:04 / 06.04.06
The Aztec one? I'm not so sure. The Twilight proposal suggested that Superwoman was, in fact, Wonder Woman, and that they were in conflict with the Shazam Family. Was there even a Bat Family in Twilight?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
17:13 / 06.04.06
I wondered if it was some obscure Elseworlds thing. didn't they do a whole slew of Elseworlds annuals a while back?
 
  

Page: 1 ... 2021222324(25)2627

 
  
Add Your Reply