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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Serenity: The Firefly Movie (spoilers within)

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12:46 / 13.10.05

Haus: we only did the pilot and then "Shindig".

Our full plan, for a crash-course in Serenity, was essentially thus:

[Pilot]
[Shindig OR Our Mrs Reynolds] - this basically gives you an idea of what things in the Verse are like
[War Stories or Jaynestown or maybe Out Of Gas] - all for different reasons.
[Ariel] - Important River Stuff
[Objects in Space] - More important River stuff

I'd say that, post-Serenity-movie, Objects In Space is less necessary and Out Of Gas moreso. Similarly War Stories - as mentioned upthread, it's great because it's all about the differences in the relationship between Zoe and Wash and the relationship between Zoe and Mal.

In terms of fun, it has to be Shindig, Jaynestown, Our Mrs Reynolds, though.

Regrettable Juvenilia

12:55 / 13.10.05

sleaze already mentioned 'War Stories' above.

'The Train Job' suffers from being a conscious attempt, on request, to introduce the characters and concepts of the show in a quick, action-packed, arriving-in-the-middle-of-things way. It does a good job on the morality of Mal and co - what Mal won't do for money, but also his willingness to kill people if those people threaten his crew or just plain deserve it. However other bits of the characters' stories are introduced in a slightly clunky expositionary dialogue kind of way that feels repetitive after the two-parter and annoyingly artificial without it.

'Bushwhacked' is effectively spooky in places and has some funny Jayne stuff, but it could be any other sci-fi show, really.

'Safe' - well, it has a little bit of intriguing stuff about Book, but the River/Simon stuff is heavy-handed both in the present (these backward people and their backward religion! - yes, yes, burn the witch, we've seen this before) and the past (their parents were bad parents, especially the father! - yes, yes, Joss). Probably the weakest episode.

'The Message' has that affecting scene in the snow, filmed when they knew the show had been cancelled. But it does feel a bit like filler, as do any episodes of a show wherein a new-to-us-old-friend character shows up and doesn't affect continuity.

07:23 / 14.10.05

I was impressed that Joss Whedon had put some Scottish history in space with his borrowing of the term Reivers. They were rampaging outlaws who plagued the borderland between England and Scotland for hundreds of years. This morning my illusions were shattered when I read that Whedon made the word up and had never heard of them.

That would account for what I took to be a misspelling up till now. Not enough Scots in space, *sighs*. Would rather have Reivers than bloody Rodney in Stargate:Atlantis. And the Scottish influence would have been an authentic echo of the Old West mythos Whedon's recreating.

09:27 / 14.10.05

I too thought that that was the reference - disappointed that it is not... the spelling 'Reavers' still looks a bit off because of that, I think.

10:45 / 14.10.05

Some may be interested in the Firefly / Serenity podcasts (The Signal) that you can access currently on iTunes. Lots of good stuff but I particularly like their Chinese lessons so you can understand some of the bits of it that pepper the dialogue on the show.

Some of it well worth the translation, such as the Chinese for "Shut Up" that is commonly used and the expression for "explosive elephant diarrhoeia" that Mal's fond of.

17:31 / 14.10.05

Chris Claremont had some villains called "The Reavers" in an old issue of 80s or 90s X-Men, right around the time the X-Men went into the Siege Perilous or something like that. I bet that lodged in Whedon's subconscious since he's a big X-Men fan.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

21:08 / 14.10.05

(Off-topic- Xoc, you totally need to read Ken McLeod's "Newton's Wake" if you want proper Scotsmen In Space joy...)

WHOAH. Just got back from seeing Serenity (well, plus the time it took to read the bits of the thread following the point where I bailed to avoid spoilers.)

As somebody said earlier, the death of Wash, to me, was like the rulebook being chucked out of the window. I knew people were gonna die- I guessed Book, as I knew he wasn't in it much, but I was expecting (and hoping against) some kind of horrible ending with River and Simon- I dunno, he sacrifices her so she can achieve some function or other, wihich results in her dying... I was very glad this cheesiness existed only in my head.

From that point on, I really DIDN'T know what the fuck was going to happen... who else was gonna die? The traditional "big fight scene" became something a lot more, because I had no idea what was coming (and also, because they were characters I cared about even before the film started- the risk seemed a lot higher).

I absolutely adored it. I am SO going to see it again.

kovacs- if narrative is your concern, then you must realise there's more than a beginning and an end, and that the middle is often the most important part. I'd hesitate to recommend individual episodes... I mean, there aren't that many, for a start, and even the most self-contained (Train Job, The Message, Heart Of Gold- though you gotta love HOG for its sheer "A-Team-ness") give new insights into characters and relationships. I went to see Serenity with two people- one who'd seen the TV series, and one who hadn't- they both loved it, but a lot of the scenes seem to have been viewed in different contexts- I'd suggest the journey from beginning to end is more important than either.

But, y'know... Out Of Gas is probably my favourite. If you absolutely, positively CAN'T just watch all of them... watch that one. It's ace.

22:05 / 14.10.05

I'm so with everything Stoat just said. I saw the film with someone who hadn't seen any of the series either and they really enjoyed it too (although they weren't nearly as affected by Wash's fate as I was).
I think that's basically the difference between having seen the series and not, how much you love the characters. The film is superb and I think most people will agree on that, it's just a case of how superb.

Out of Gas gets my vote too as being by far the best episode although unlike was said earlier in this thread I can't help thinking it works best as an introduction to the series rather than a conclusion. Certainly, when they were all first aired, it's the episode that made me fall in love with the show (I think I wrote something similar in the Firefly thread at the time too).

22:26 / 14.10.05

Would perhaps be less shocking when Wash is killed, had one not watched any of the tv shows. Still a shock because it was well done but less emotionally charged if you hadn't seen him play Jurassic Park all those times or laughed at all his one liners.

miss wonderstarr

15:13 / 15.10.05

I've watched "Heart of Gold", "Shindig", "Out of Gas" and "Objects in Space" over the last couple of days. Apart from etching the theme song indelibly in my head, it's been a strange experience in terms of expanding and developing what I learned from Serenity.

Some brief, fragmentary observations that may be interesting to those of you who came the other way round:

-- for obvious reasons, I would have been more moved by Wash's death if I'd seen even these episodes first. The length of time I "knew" him in the film was only enough to make him a mildly endearing, minor character.

-- I now fully understand people's bemusement with the poster, which makes River look like the key figure. In the episodes I've seen, she hangs about the margins like some gothic missy, making enigmatic remarks ten seconds before things happen and sometimes causing trouble with her sleepwalking. There seems very little, if any, indication in those episodes that she's a war machine.

-- this sounds kind of superficial but Kaylee looked far prettier in the TV episodes, and seemed immediately like a potential love interest for Simon: in the movie she didn't strike me as nearly so endearingly joyful and radiant.

-- far more Western atmosphere in the TV show, with less SF tendencies. This may be because Western, as a genre, is lower-budget; "Heart of Gold" and "Shindig", for instance, are almost entirely ground-level, planet-based dramas, whereas the movie gives us a lot more CGI space dogfighting. The focus on showy effects in the film moves it further toward SF and away from that dusty hoe-down and showdown feel.

-- with this hindsight I can see how little time was given to Inara and Book in the film, and how surprising or disappointing this would be to regular viewers of the TV series. It's as though key players were entirely relegated to drop-in parts.

miss wonderstarr

15:18 / 15.10.05

Oh yeah and

-- I would have been pretty surprised and frustrated, as a fan of the show rather than a total newcomer, by how long it took for Mal and the rest of the crew to show up in the story.

20:22 / 15.10.05

River's arse kicking potential is more than hinted at in War Stories.

21:01 / 15.10.05

-- this sounds kind of superficial but Kaylee looked far prettier in the TV episodes, and seemed immediately like a potential love interest for Simon: in the movie she didn't strike me as nearly so endearingly joyful and radiant.

I think this could be down to the fact that kaylee in the movie has lost a lot of weight in the movie compared to kaylee in the tv series.

miss wonderstarr

22:05 / 15.10.05

I thought maybe she was just older.

23:23 / 15.10.05

Naw, it's a weight thing. Jewel Staite put on circa 20lbs - that's nearly a stone and a half, UK folks - to play Kaylee in the TV series. That's a whole lotta weight. She didn't regain it for the movie, hence she is skinnier in the film. She's certainly more cuddly, more motherly in the film - and that, ultimately, is the role she fulfills on Serenity: she's everyone's Mum. Deep down, Kaylee knows that she can't fulfil this.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:14 / 16.10.05

The film on its own would give a totally different impression of the relationship between Mal and Zoe, too... I think that's one of its strengths, actually- it doesn't DITCH any of the continuity it doesn't have time for- it just lets it carry on without drawing attention to it, so it doesn't alienate either fans of the TV show or people meeting the crew for the first time.

Book's death, in particular, seemed to affect the guy I went with who HADN'T watched FF much less than it did those of us who had- he didn't realise this was actually a regular character, hadn't spent twelve hours watching the bugger, therefore didn't have as much emotional investment. But even with all that backstory missing, the scene worked on its own anyway.

miss wonderstarr

07:52 / 16.10.05

She didn't regain it for the movie, hence she is skinnier in the film. She's certainly more cuddly, more motherly in the film - and that, ultimately, is the role she fulfills on Serenity: she's everyone's Mum. Deep down, Kaylee knows that she can't fulfil this.

I'm not sure that I understand this. She was skinnier (physically) in the film, but more cuddly (in character terms?) in the film?

I'd have to watch the film again but from the show, she comes across more as a kid-sister role: Mal just kissed her on the forehead. Who generally cooks on the ship, or is that role shared?

10:04 / 16.10.05

I never thought of Kaylee as anyone's mum. Kid sister is a much better description. If anyone is mumish it's Inara.

20:10 / 16.10.05

Having only dropped in now after mey second viewing of serenity this week, this post really hit me:

"Book's death, in particular, seemed to affect the guy I went with who HADN'T watched FF much less than it did those of us who had- he didn't realise this was actually a regular character, hadn't spent twelve hours watching the bugger, therefore didn't have as much emotional investment. But even with all that backstory missing, the scene worked on its own anyway.

The second time I watched the movie this scene seemed to effect myself and my mate (also a full series viewer and second timer at the film) more.
The whole "I'm not one of your crew boy", "yes you ARE" line really upset me.
I know some people feel that certains things were a little off from the TV show (Simon knowing too much for example) but I really felt that nothing regarding any of the characters had been changed for the sake of the movie AT ALL and now I love even more so.

Also has anyone seen this "review" of serenity:

found it after following a link to a blog from the LOST thread.

miss wonderstarr

21:31 / 16.10.05

I don't think the single conceit in that review deserved anything more than a paragraph.

Anyway I've now watched the two "Saffron" episodes too, which I think means I've only missed 6 of a total 14 shows. I am still most struck by the minor role River plays in all these stories, compared to the movie. Again, it's surprising that Inara and Book are off Serenity during the movie, when they've played such an important part in the crew; and that there's only one reference to Reavers in what I've seen so far, whereas they're major players in the film.

21:40 / 16.10.05

I think the Reavers play a significant role in two episodes. More importantly, however, they clearly have huge potential dramatic energy, and, frankly, were I Joss Whedon I would've used them in my Firefly movie.

Kovacs, I suggest you stop reporting back to this thread after watching one or two episodes. Watch the entire series, and then tell us what you think.

miss wonderstarr

07:00 / 17.10.05

Sorry!

09:21 / 17.10.05

I'm liking your enthusiasm.

10:40 / 17.10.05

Can someone tell me where and how to get those there iTunes podcasts that were mentioned upstream, before they disappear? I've looked at the iTunes shopfront but it's frankly somewhat confusing and I don't know what to do! Help! Mummy!

11:07 / 17.10.05

There's a site for the podcasts here -I assume this is the one Xoc was talking about, I didn't manage to get to them via the iTunes store either.

18:23 / 17.10.05

That's the one. It's under ON TELEVISION listings on the front page of my iTunes at the moment and it's at number 35 in the Top 100 listing in thed Podcast Directory.

miss wonderstarr

22:48 / 17.10.05

OK, well I've watched all of them apart from The Train Job, Bushwacked, Ariel, Safe and The Message, and I'm not inclined to watch any more. I felt it was wearing thin after nine episodes -- the dialogue getting cheesy, the plots formulaic, the characterisation inconsistent and relationships either repetitive or implausible. It really is getting like The A-Team.

Add to that the lack of eyecandy shots like those of the floating luxury apts in Trash, and I don't think I would have recommissioned this series myself.

So frankly, I think the show's cancellation, if that led directly to the feature film, is the best thing that could have happened to this mythos: the movie opens it out, gives it far more scope and urgency and edge. The whole Firefly verse was feeling very cosy to me in the self-contained, relatively domestic, set-bound episodes. There was very little sense of overall narrative arc or progression, with only the briefest hints of River's true nature, tedious recapping of situation and character in each episode, and return/revenge appearances from earlier minor enemies compounding the sense that the story had nowhere much to go.

23:39 / 17.10.05

Kovacs, if you had watched the episodes in order you would have seen the narrative build up episode by episode. Sure there are some mostly stand alone eps, but each time you "meet" a character a new bit of information is dropped and the gentle layering begins, which if seen in order builds up quite nicely.

I think Joss Whedon had intended a long narrative arc, like the Babylon 5 story arc (ok, maybe not THAT long) and so he gave it space to breath and build slowly.

I'm sorry to hear that you thought it all got bogged down being in the same place/same people/signs of domesticity, but for me that was one of the things I really liked about the series, the fact that you really began to care about this little disfuncitonal family in space and that you really cared what happened to them and how each event affected them personally as well as how their inter-relationships worked (or didn't).

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:04 / 18.10.05

Well, quite- it was the "being broadcast in the wrong order" thing that, in part, led to its being canned in the first place. I've only seen them from start to finish, but I don't think it would have worked, somehow.

miss wonderstarr

07:33 / 18.10.05

That's true, but although I watched them out of order, I did know what order they were meant to run in, and while it's not quite the same, I think I was able to fit them into a larger pattern. It's not impossible to watch episodes 2, 1 and 3 of a series in that order but also to understand how they'd work in the intended sequence. You have a point though and it may have undermined the overall arc for me.

09:12 / 18.10.05

I think its interesting that many of the things Kovacs appears to dislike about firefly are actually features/constraints of pretty much *all* ongoing television series ie the production values, the reliance on recurring sets, the need to reiterate key plot points every episode or so and delay gratification through the series run...

There are also certain things inherant in the concept that doesn't appeal to him. It's a Western in space, but its tropes are more western than space opera. It's about living on the fringes of civilization. Set-piece space battles aren't in the remit. Nor is spectacular cities-in-the-sky eye candy. Its about heists and outlaws, something that kind of forces the narative down a certain route if the show is to remained focused. If you are looking for straight space opera then firefly ain't going to be it - just as if you were looking for something that wasn't a highschool drama then the first few seasons of buffy really were not going to be for you...

09:13 / 18.10.05

Um, why didn't you just look on the internet, find the correct order and watch 'em in sequence? I'm not saying you would have enjoyed the series any more than you did, but it is a real possibility.

10:18 / 18.10.05

Possibly because he asked us for advice, and we didn't advise to watch them all in order.

10:28 / 18.10.05

No one actually said, "don't watch 'em in order" though, did they? They just said which episodes they would recommend.

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:07 / 18.10.05

Well, maybe watching them a different way might provide kovacs with more enjoyment, but maybe we should stop trying to persuade him that he's wrong. Maybe the TV series didn't provide him with what he wanted - not enough space, not enough sci-fi, cramped sets - just because that's not what he wanted from a sci-fi series. On the other hand, the movie did give him what he wanted, and also gave lots of die-hard fans of the TV show what _they_ wanted. This, it strikes me, is a good thing.

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