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Serenity: The Firefly Movie (spoilers within)

 
  

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Regrettable Juvenilia
18:59 / 09.10.05
I didn't hear that, and I don't really care.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
19:04 / 09.10.05
Let me put that another way: it surprised me not at all that Whedon would kill off a core member of the Serenity crew in the film. It was just a question of who. Joss does like to sacrifice the innocent, but Kayleigh dying would have been perhaps too devastating, plus the other thing Joss likes is killing one half of a happy couple... So Wash it was.
 
 
sleazenation
19:07 / 09.10.05
Of course, now that Kayleigh and simon are sexing it up one of them is bound to die sooner or later. Probably Simon, thinking about it...
 
 
Mistoffelees
19:50 / 09.10.05
First couple of minutes of the movie can be seen here:

preview

I had to use Iexplorer to see it, opera didn´t work.

I liked the preview. If the rest of the movie is like that, that´s nice and fresh SF.
 
 
gridley
20:54 / 09.10.05
Wash also had to replace Hank Azaria in the Holy Grail musical on Broadway.
 
 
h1ppychick
21:40 / 09.10.05
Just saw it for the second time - I had hoped to delay the gratification somewhat but got dragged along by a couple of friends who weren't in the mood for Cronenberg. From their reaction it's playing well with Firefly novices and both mentioned afterwards their preference with the emphasis on richness of characterisation rather than on CGI.

It takes multiple viewings quite well and I found that I got more of the rapid dialogue (especially Mal's) this time. I still got choked up in the same place - funnily enough whilst I love Wash to death (hah) it didn't have the same emotional impact on me as when Simon gets shot, and I think it's because when Wash bites it the action is going on thick and fast around them with no time to do anything other than get the hell on with things, whilst when Simon's hit Joss Whedon allows the pacing to slow down just long enough for some more personal dialogue and to set up the end-game.
 
 
The Strobe
13:04 / 10.10.05
It's taken me a while to work out quite what I thought about Serenity. I mean, basically, I really really liked it, as a huge fan of Firefly, but pinning down how has been difficult.

For a start, lots of stuff made me wrunkle my nose. Mal's braces, for starters (which I pointed out to Vincennes, natch!). I liked that a lot of the costume/production design was making no effort to look futuristic. I found Mal's future-braces, not to mention the asymmetric padding on his jacket and clips instead of buttons on his shirt all a little annoying. Similarly, the approach to technology throughout: Firefly succeeded in taking you unawares by just how futuristic everything was. Just after you thought things couldn't get any clunkier, suddenly there'd be something like the holographic pool balls, or the digital-paper. The memorycard of Inara felt like that; the flat-panels in the control room were in some ways too shiny, and in others, just not shiny enough.

(Similarly, the Alliance ships. Where were the floating cities like the Dortmunder? I found them all a bit sleek and made-in-Japan. The Reaver ships were great, though).

In the end, I could criticise odds and ends, though, but I went to the cinema to spend an evening with my friends - which really, for me, is what the crew are in a way - and that's what I got.

Oh, wait, except some of them died.

Now, Book's death was probably coming anyhow. I like, as mentioned upthread, that we never found out what his background was; I also like that he found somewhere to settle, somewhere to be - which is what he was really looking for all along. Think that worked nicely.

But Wash. Poor Wash. Poor Wash, because, well, if you hadn't seen Firefly you'd just think they killed off the funny-guy, but if you had... christ, that really hurt.

Wash's characterisation wasn't nearly as strong in the film as the series, and that made his death in some ways underwhelming. They tried to play up the Zoe/Wash relationship (they called each other 'baby' more than they ever did in Firefly) but I'm not sure it worked as well as they hoped. In the end, I found it pretty difficult - if only because it's so grim, so sudden, and immediately has to be passed over. Poor Zoe.

The film also retcons a little - part of the point of Wash is that he's the only one who can fly Serenity, and he can fly it damn well; Mal's flying ability extends to holding the wheel still, really. I don't like the idea of River suddenly being a talented pilot as well as everything else. In Serenity, Wash seems a little more expendable than he clearly was in Firefly.

Also, one thing I picked up on later that was interesting; Mr Universe is Wash's contact. Not Mal's. Not Jayne's. He's specifically one of Wash's mates, which makes perfect sense, really. Thought that was a nice touch.

Still, the dinosaurs are still on the dashboard. That made me smile. I'm finding it strange just how cut up I am by how they killed him off - especially given I was spoiled for it anywhere. It still hurt. And I'm not sure I could have taken it without being spoiled.

Weakest characterisation of all, though: Inara. I mean, I realised at the end that in Serenity, no-one explains what her fucking job is. It's even possible to think she's some kind of deportment teacher. I mean, da fug? This pissed me off a lot, especially as she's semi-crucial to parts.

By contrast, I was quite pleased that they really made something of Jayne, and showed him to be more than a doofus. I also liked the fact he kept his grenades in the beer cooler...

Hell, I liked it. I really enjoyed myself, and it matched ups with downs. I just found it annoying that everything that jarred with me was something I missed from Firefly.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:16 / 10.10.05
Yes, a little too shiny shiny and too short. I felt desolate at the end.
 
 
h1ppychick
15:12 / 10.10.05
Weakest characterisation of all, though: Inara. I mean, I realised at the end that in Serenity, no-one explains what her fucking job is. It's even possible to think she's some kind of deportment teacher. I mean, da fug? This pissed me off a lot, especially as she's semi-crucial to parts

Yes, true that Inara didn't get much screen-time and that she does get seems a bit incidental and peripheral. But you're wrong that a non-Firefly moviegoer wouldn't work out what she does, since in the memorycard bit Kaylee is talking about 'this very shuttle and this very bed where she's received her clients'.

It's clear that she's a courtesan of status from this and from the temple scenes at the training school.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:56 / 11.10.05
I thought it was odd that Wash and Zoe never ever in the movie called each other 'husband' or 'wife' and no dialogue in the movie ever mentioned their being married. (Not that married couples often say 'come here, husband' and so forth, but a newcomer to Firefly/Serenity would just think they were in a relationship, not that they were married.)

Inara repainting the logo at the end montage struck me as kind of silly...but what else is she gonna do in rebuilding, I guess...?
 
 
FinderWolf
16:57 / 11.10.05
>> Wash also had to replace Hank Azaria in the Holy Grail musical on Broadway.

Really? That's cool.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
17:38 / 11.10.05
I thought it was odd that Wash and Zoe never ever in the movie called each other 'husband' or 'wife' and no dialogue in the movie ever mentioned their being married.

Mal's first line to Zoe is something like about how her husband better not crash the ship.
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
17:44 / 11.10.05
(Though, when the blast doors finally opened again, I did get a funny image of River doing whatever it was she had to do to open them, then running back and striking her pose.)

I know EXACTLY what you mean!

And it'd be such a River thing to do. "Hmm...yup, done that. Now...to look COOL!"

Dovetailing that with the line from Objects in Space: "Sometimes he's SO much work to look after." And from War Stories (right after she shoots three people with her eyes closed): "No power in the 'Verse can stop me."

But yeah...I was also having the weird conflicting double-think of her going to her death, but also that she couldn't possibly be doing that.

I also liked how just about everyone in that last fight took a major hit that you'd think would have killed them. Kaylee's, for me, was the most traumatic. She's saying something nice and then BOOM! Three green darts in her throat. Even Simon I thought was going to stay dead. I was just...heh. Yeah.
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:29 / 12.10.05
I also liked how just about everyone in that last fight took a major hit that you'd think would have killed them.

Except for Inara, she came through it without a scratch.

Anyone else notice that Mal only ever shoots unarmed men throughout the entire film, except to disarm The Operative?
 
 
Lord Morgue
09:17 / 12.10.05
Hehehe, he's all cool and ruthless like Avon, but more loveable. He shoots first, like we know Han Solo really does, but then he KEEPS shooting. Now if he'd just get into an argument with God, and scream KHAAAAAAAN! a few times, he'd be the perfect captain.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
10:14 / 12.10.05
Does anyone else find it a little odd that we never get to see the Reaver's faces? That although the Reavers turn out to be victims, after all, of Some Dumb Plan by the Man, the movie only permits them to be faceless, barbarian animals? I've been thinking back over that scene with River and the Reavers, and the problem (despite the nifty footwork) is that River is the only 'character' featured there. The Reavers could be robots or missiles, for all the film attends to them. It reminded me of Black Hawk Down, how the African geurilla fighters are never featured as characters or given face, they're just threatening, murderous bodies.

So -- if Joss is riffing off the current 'terror' scenario, as everyone claims -- even though the US is responsible for the existence of suicide bombers, was involved in their creation, 'terrorists' are still subhuman.
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:31 / 12.10.05
As far as I understand it the idea with the Reavers is that it's all left to our imagination what horrible self-mutilations they've performed on themselves and each other. Everyone talks about them cutting on themselves and wearing peoples skin and living in spaceships with no core containment so we get a nasty image in our heads that no special effect can top.

Probably cheaper than special effects too.

Although the Reavers are victims of the Alliance tampering, they aren't portrayed as sympathetic characters. They're monsters, not terrorists. They have no agenda beyond rape, murder, and cannibalism. I suppose you could argue the "faceless badguys hoards", but the commentary on the Firefly dvd does seem to indicate that Whedon shoots Reaver scenes that way because it's scarier.
 
 
Not in the Face
12:04 / 12.10.05
Reavers I found the partial looks at the Reavers much scarier than if they had been shown clearly. Taking another group of ugly sub-humans - orcs - although amazingly detailed in LotR, over the three films they lost their scariness as you became more familiar with them. Reavers kept that and I think it made the final scene more exciting and claustrophic than it otherwise would have been because the viewer is being given a range of shifting images rather than a fight between two sides.

I also didn't think the analogy of media representations of terrorists is that applicable to the reavers. What struck me is that, were this real life, the Alliance, and by analogy our own governments, would be happy to have found a combat drug that turns its civilians, never mind the soldiers, into the ultimate infantry assault weapon. Drop a battalion of reavers onto a rebel planet and it won't be a problem much longer. This is analagous in my mind into research into super-soldiers - removing all that pesky need for sleep and compassion for the other side that interferes in military planning.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:55 / 12.10.05
Just watched the Firefly episode "Serenity", and while it feels a bit stripped-down and low-budget after the feature film -- it also goes over similar ground, which doesn't make me enormously keen to watch some 13 further episodes; it feels like the film gave me a "best of" and I'm not sure I really want that expanded over hours of TV show -- I do love the way Mal just walks into a situation and shoots straight, no questions, no hesitations, no regrets.
 
 
sleazenation
17:59 / 12.10.05
Um, Kovacs? Wasn't the episode Serenity the pilot? if so, isn't it kind of it's job to intoduce you to the characters and universe firefly is set in? Just like the movie does...
 
 
miss wonderstarr
18:25 / 12.10.05
Yes, it was the pilot, but I think its job was quite different to that of the film. The film wasn't setting up the verse to try to encourage viewers to watch a dozen further episodes -- it was self-sufficient, contained. Also, if you've seen both, you will know that they're distinct in many ways: the film leaps around time and space a good deal in the first 20 minutes or thereabouts, giving us the sequence where River is rescued but then jumping way forward to a point where she and Simon have been Serenity's passengers for a while.

Fair point to suggest that they have similar jobs in terms of introducing the set-up and characters, and that I should perhaps have expected overlap.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
18:46 / 12.10.05
Also, my observation was that having seen the film, I can't help feeling that the series will fill out the framework. Serenity gives a busload of backstory, going all the way home to River's childhood and then showing Simon springing her... by the end a key character's died and the will-they-won't-they flirtation has been resolved in coupling.

What I mean to say is that I feel I've seen the start, seen the end; the series is just going to pad out the middle.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:58 / 12.10.05
I think to an extent that's true - if your intention is to experience pure narrative, the series will do little for you, as the narrative of the movie begins just before the series does and ends a little while after it. It is, however, good and enjoyable television - that is, it provides an aesthetic pleasure outside the performance of pure narrative. There are characters, and lines spoken by actors, and about half of it is very good indeed as television. So, depends what you're looking for.
 
 
MrKismet
20:03 / 12.10.05
There seems to be a small misunderstanding regarding Wash's death and his appearing in SPAMALOT on Broadway. Hank Azaria left SPAMALOT earlier this year, per his contract, to resume filming his series, HUFF. Tudyk was his replacement. Azaria returns to SPAMALOT on Dec. 2, and Tudyk is out of yet another job. (The producers did give him the night off to attend Firefly's premiere in L.A..)

Oh, and I saw Tudyk in SPAMALOT, and he was hysterical as the homicidally brave Sir Lancelot (his sequined jock strap is to die for) and the French Taunter.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:07 / 12.10.05
It is, however, good and enjoyable television - that is, it provides an aesthetic pleasure outside the performance of pure narrative. There are characters, and lines spoken by actors, and about half of it is very good indeed as television. So, depends what you're looking for.

That rings true.
 
 
sleazenation
21:05 / 12.10.05
Yeah there is plenty of stuff there to add meat to the bones... I particularly like war stories for the way it demonstrates the differences between the intimacy that Wash and Zoe share and the intimacy that Mal and Zoe share...
 
 
miss wonderstarr
05:21 / 13.10.05
If I were to pick and choose from the episodes, which would you (and other fans of the show) especially recommend?
 
 
sleazenation
06:54 / 13.10.05
WEll, I've only watched the series once, but the episodes that stand out in my mind are war stories, our mrs reynolds, jayne's world, the sequal to mrs reynolds (not sure of the title). The one in whorehouse and objects in space - which is nasty, but i guess loses some of its power when you KNOW that River hasn't become one with serenity, which seems like it could just be plausible at the time....
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:18 / 13.10.05
war stories, our mrs reynolds, jayne's world, the sequal to mrs reynolds (not sure of the title)

Those last two are 'Jaynestown' and 'Trash' - both recommended, although 'Trash' works a lot better in context than it does outside of context (the first time I saw it, I'd seen little of the rest of the series, and was unimpressed by how generic the sets seemed in the second half - but this is because of the nature of the place they're visiting).

I would also recommend:

'Shindig' - probably the most successful episode in terms of creating a world with its own aesthetics and values. Interestingly, it's not very Western.

'Aerial' - very creepy bad guys, and a killer ending that tells you a lot about Jayne and Mal.

'Out Of Gas' - would have made a great final episode to the series: Mal reminisces about how he met various crewmembers, while he and almost everybody else almost dies.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:25 / 13.10.05
I'd suggest Serenity for backstory, Shindig for Inara/Mal, Out of Gas for more backstory, Ariel for Simon/River, our Mrs Reynolds for fun and Book, Jaynestown for fun (although much of it has now been retconned)... Paleface, what did we watch at the mini-shindig?
 
 
Mourne Kransky
07:39 / 13.10.05
Great film.

Malcolm's nostrils are extraordinary. How they flare and contract to express emotion.

There's a problem with the switch between defenceless teen River and invincible bloody warrior River. It's going to deflate future narratives if they always have her psycho-ninja skillz in reserve.

Best thing about it is, as always, Whedon's humour, largely channelled through Mal. Some great one-liners and plot surprises that are almost thrown away, so light is the touch.

Started watching the dvd of the aborted series again to luxuriate in the language. Music was better on the tv show, I think.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
07:46 / 13.10.05
The one in the whorehouse is called Heart Of Gold. Shindig (as recommended by everyone) is also the ultimate Kaylee episode, and should for that reason be watched as soon as possible... Out Of Gas is one of the best too, but as Shaftoe mentioned it makes a good ending to the series so I probably wouldn't recommend it as one of the first to watch.
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:48 / 13.10.05
Kovacs, Floating In Space my friend. The final episode of the tv series. Cracking bit of telly, and probably the first and last time we'll ever see Jubel Early, the Boba Fett of the 'Verse. By turns it's funny, menacing, and sweet.

Jaynetown's great as well. Especially the song "Hero of Canton".

But considering the whole season is only twelve episodes you may as well watch the lot.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
07:50 / 13.10.05
I think you've more or less covered all episodes between you! Thanks, I am obliged.
 
 
gridley
12:40 / 13.10.05
So, for those keeping track at home, the episodes that are NOT recommended are:

The Train Job
Bushwhacked
Safe
The Message
War Stories

Although frankly, I love "War Stories" (the torture episode), so I would recommend that. Except it's sort of a sequel to the "The Train Job" so I'd have to recommend that too.

And really, "The Message" is a better episode than you may remember....
 
  

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