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Serenity: The Firefly Movie (spoilers within)

 
  

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Regrettable Juvenilia
14:59 / 21.10.05
I mean, the whole point of Mal's narrative arc is that at the start of the film, he's willing to sacrifice this guy he doesn't know for the sake of his money and his immediate circle, and by the end of the film, he's willing to sacrifice himself and his immediate circle for the sake of an idea/a bunch of people who are already dead/a crazy girl who's probably a danger to him and his immediate circle.

Now, you can criticise that for being a traditional morac arc. But you can't have it both ways.
 
 
Cat Chant
15:07 / 21.10.05
But at no point in Serenity is there any serious doubt about whether Mal is a good guy. As I find myself saying more and more often about pop culture these days, it's not complex, it's just muddled.
 
 
Cat Chant
15:08 / 21.10.05
Um, also, I don't think "one person who you don't know" is the moral equivalent of "saving the galaxy from oppression". That doesn't seem to me to be an arc: both those situations seem to me to be identical examples of moral calculation (the greatest good for the greatest number).
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
18:19 / 21.10.05
Hmmm. As I often find myself saying nowadays when following Barbe-threads for movies I love, I really need to see this again.

Thanks to Deva for being the first person I've heard voice the one thing about this series that's bugged the hell out of me from day one: where the hell are the Chinese people? Even if it wasn't explicitly outlined in the Firefly mythos that the Alliance is a US/China superpower (and both movie and series are shot through with pseudo-Oriental influences, like a fair amount of sci-fi product these days), a quarter of present-day Earth's population do seem to be glaringly absent 500 years from now. Withiel, pardon my laziness, but do you happen to remember on which of the commentaries they referred to this editorial interference by Fox?

As for the conflicting ideas about Mal and his characterisation, it's worth remembering that he was originally intended to a far more bitter, emotionally closed, anti-heroic figure than he's become. Again referring to the commentary (for 'The Train Job' AFAIR), Whedon and Minear did mention this during Mal's scene with Inara where he cracks some gags about space monkeys. I think we can chalk up these sorts of inconsistencies to conflict between network and creatives about what their leading man should be like, combined with the usual variations that come with having a diverse writing team across the length of a (truncated) series, winding up with Whedon finding it necessary to paint Mal heroic again when it came movie time. Of course, this is pure speculation on my part, and what appears on screen may be precisely what was intended, but it seems doubtful given the way TV and movies work.

But enough of Mal and Inara and River and Simon... where's the ZOE LOVE! Zoe gets no love! Least of all from her horribly deceased husband! It's so unjust.
 
 
Hieronymus
18:40 / 21.10.05
I mean, the problem with the Reavers if you want to read Serenity politically is that they don't work as analogous to any group of people, not that the film says it's okay to shoot those people.

A friend of mine last night suggested that the Reavers are the sci-fi mutate representation of the 'Injun menace' used in the old Western standards and dime novels. The faceless, monstrous flesh-eating savages that 'aren't civilized' (doesn't Mal say something in Bushwacked about how the Reavers are no longer men) and that exist on the shadowy edges of the frontier.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:31 / 22.10.05
>> Also, in the skyline of the empty city on the planet where the Reavers were created, one of the buildings looks suspiciously like the original design of the WTC Freedom Tower.

I wrote this a while ago, now after having seen the film a second time just now, I see that it was not on the planet Miranda, but the establishing shot of the beautiful cities of the Alliance where I saw this building.

The movie holds up surprisingly well after a second viewing; makes me want to go re-watch the series on DVD.
 
 
Evil Scientist
20:47 / 22.10.05
But no people with visible Chinese origins, which I find bizarre to the point of vastly undermining the credibility of the universe.

Well, I seem to recall a fair number of background characters who were of Chinese descent in the tv show. But you're right more or less. The only one I can think of in the film would be the fan dancer in the bar where River kicks off.

Shame they didn't actually have a Chinese crew member on Serenity actually.

Regarding the Reavers as space injuns*, yes I suppose to some extent that is what they are. But I felt that Whedon was doing what he sometimes does, playing with a cliche and altering it. So the "men gone primitive on the edge of space" turn out to have been driven insane by totalitarian government experiment in utopia-building.

* I'm using the word injuns here intentionally to distinguish the Hollywood Westerns stereotype of the mindless violent savage from genuine Native Americans. If use of the term offends anyone I'm happy to edit it.
 
 
sleazenation
09:45 / 23.10.05
I thought the general absence of Chinese was odd but understandable to an extent - they are going to be more prevelant in the core worlds and parliment. Firefly isn't set in those places. That's why you don't see themmuch in the series, but it's no excuse for not having a few on Allience ships...
 
 
Evil Scientist
16:20 / 23.10.05
Well, just watched Bushwhacked today and did notice that there were Chinese amongst the Alliance guards. But they're certainly not prominent.
 
 
■
16:30 / 23.10.05
I agree that it should have been made clearer what a Companion is.

I think they probably would have, but I get the feeling (no evidence for this, though) that Inara probably got the moral-majority spidey senses of the execs twitching a little:
"She's a prostitute and a heroine? Can't you make it look like she's a princess or something instead?" When I watched the DVDs it made me wonder if that had been a minor factor in the cancellation, and her downgrading in the film seems to support it for me.
Murdoch (and, by extension, Fox) also has a record of being very careful about dealing with China (cancelling Chris Patten's Hong Kong memoirs, pulling the World Service from his satellite channels there) so maybe he/they though it would hurt sales of the show (and his other products)there if they had too many Chinese people shown acting against their government. I like the curses, though. "Shove the entire universe up my ass!" is my favourite.
 
 
Cat Chant
13:30 / 24.10.05
I mean, the problem with the Reavers if you want to read Serenity politically is that they don't work as analogous to any group of people, not that the film says it's okay to shoot those people.

Well, the thing with the Reavers is that their basic narrative function is to be "bad lawlessness" in contrast to the Serenity crew's "good lawlessness". Because the distinction isn't actually hard-and-fast on the basis of their actions (this is made clear in Jayne's speech about how he's not a Reaver, even though he kills people for fun), the Reavers have to be made into a different kind of creature so that we don't have to worry about the blurry grey area between "made lawless by the inadequacies of the Alliance government" (Serenity crew) and, er, "made lawless by the inadequacies of the Alliance government" (Reavers). It's not hard to see the term 'chav' functioning in an analogous way, giving a typology and hence a spuriously-defined existence to the "bad working-class" as opposed to the "good working-class". It's more than "the Reavers... don't work as analogous to any group of people", in fact: the Reavers can't be what we're told they are (from what we're told about them, they can't have even the minimal level of social cohesion and team-work required to keep flying their ships around and not raping each other to death). The term 'Reaver' can only mean "morally killable bad lawlessness". (Which is scarily close to what 'yob' means in, for example, Take a Break, currently campaigning to release Penny Parkes from prison and have her nominated for a Government "Taking a Stand" award after she stabbed a teenage boy because he was "a yob". I don't know so much about the term 'chav', because I only ever see it used on Barbelith.)

It seems likelier to me, in fact, that the anxieties objectified in the Reavers are specifically racial (since class discourse is so foreclosed in the US, most of whose fantasies are structured around race, and in particular because of the emphasis on body modification/ bodily difference), so their representation draws on fears about freed slaves (all that rape) and "Injuns", as people have said.

As for class in Serenity: I don't think it's possible to say who's working-class and who's middle-class in the ship's crew, because the film/universe hasn't really worked out a system for symbolizing class (beyond a sort of "luxurious upper-class" sign system for Inara, her clients, and Simon): class just doesn't seem to be a significant axis of identification or symbolism. I took temeres's point about the "middle-classness" of the crew to be more a point about them being typical bourgeois liberal subjects in space. So that a bourgeois liberal audience can congratulate itself on identifying with these scruffy amoral outlaw types, but in fact those characters are just bourgeois liberals dressed as scruffy outlaws. (Not from the film this time, which is sadly fading into a shiny epiphenomenon as I continue watching Firefly and continue being mostly-bored-but-occasionally-outraged by it, but an example from Our Mrs Reynolds: "Wife or no, you ain't nobody's property. Sit down here and read my battered space-captain's copy of The Feminine Mystique, little lady" etc etc.)
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:47 / 24.10.05
Well, let's just say you do a better job at picking out the flaws in the film (specifically political and otherwise) than temeres does in that review.
 
 
Cat Chant
14:49 / 24.10.05
To be fair (because I'm feeling a bit guilty about linking to temeres's review without asking first), that's easily explained in that I framed that post with you in mind as a reader, whereas temeres's review was a livejournal post probably at least partly framed in terms of his usual readership (who know enough about his politics to trust him in places where you, for example, would need a more detailed background). I sort of forgot that when I linked to it.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
10:41 / 25.10.05
...the Reavers have to be made into a different kind of creature so that we don't have to worry about the blurry grey area between "made lawless by the inadequacies of the Alliance government" (Serenity crew) and, er, "made lawless by the inadequacies of the Alliance government" (Reavers)...

The Reavers were always posited as inhuman and (more or less) faceless monsters, driven mad not by the Alliance controlling the core worlds, but by the vastness of the space outside this particular solar system. It's only the movie that gave them an origin linking back to the Alliance again.

There's no 'blurry grey area' between the Reavers and the crew of Serenity, morally or otherwise, and to believe that there is is to interrogate the politics of the Firefly universe to the point where you lose the basic thrust and function of the narrative. There's no serious doubt about whether Mal is a good guy in the series or the film because he's the hero-protagonist of the whole series/film, not because of the audience's interpretation of his actions throughout. It's simply a heroic narrative, full stop. Many of Mal's actions are morally problematic... but then they would be, as he's a smuggler/thief/pirate/lapsed believer/frontiersman/cowboy/ex-military man with a contradictory nature and a bad temper. However, the narrative posits him as the good guy, so that's what he is. The audience ends up reframing their assumptions around the movie to suit, because that's how heroic narratives work. The prominence of the 'anti-hero' archetype in popular culture in the last thirty years simply makes this reframing easier - in fact, so much so that the audience just doesn't get the purely heroic archetype anymore, which is why a straight Captain America movie wouldn't work. You say muddled, I say complex, tomay-toe, tomah-toe, etc.
 
 
FinderWolf
07:08 / 29.10.05
sad news re: Serenity's international release, from www.whedonesque.com (I guess because it didn't make enough $ in the US):

>> October 22 2005 -
International Serenity openings being canceled. Argentina, Thailand, Taiwan, Brazil and Singapore have all decided to drop Serenity. International fans waiting for cinema release should check with UIP to see if it is still being released in their country (reg required). Greece and Germany also appear to be pulling out, but not confirmed yet.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:22 / 01.11.05
from a Suicide Girls interview with Whedon:

[they asked him about comic artists doing design work for SERENITY:]

JW: I draw minimally but I describe maximally. I leave some space for the artists to see what they come up with. One of the artists that I had working was [Swamp Thing co-creator] Bernie Wrightson. I saw the drawings and I was like, “Jesus, this guy sure likes Bernie Wrightson a lot.” They said “Yeah, that’s because he is Bernie Wrightson.” I’m like, “No way you got him!” But they did and he did some concept drawings for Reavers, which was really cool.

DRE: Is there going to be an extended cut of Serenity on the DVD?

JW: No we’ll see some deleted scenes but I believe the cut I delivered is the best cut there is. I think everything that I took out of the movie, even stuff that I liked, should have come out.

DRE: What are some of the deleted scenes?

JW: There was a scene of setting up Inara [played by Morena Baccarin] in her world that ultimately slowed down the momentum. What you really needed to know about Inara was that she’s the girl Mal [played by Nathan Fillion] left behind. You know what that dynamic is. They love each other but they can’t get along. I had a long scene of her talking about her life and stuff that would have worked in a series but in a movie it was bogging things down. You’ve got momentum to service.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:44 / 01.11.05
Here's the whole interview.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:07 / 01.11.05
Just in case anyone needs telling, that's a site where ladies take their clothes off, and as such if you are at work you should probably not click on the link.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:03 / 01.11.05
True -- thanks for the headsup, Haus. Although the specific page I linked to with the interview doesn't have anything illicit on it, I believe.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:05 / 01.11.05
Just double-checked; the interview page is totally clean. The banner ad at top might show a fishnet-stockinged leg, but that's it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:23 / 01.11.05
k3wl - I didn't want to take the risk. Thanks for the clarification, FW.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:06 / 04.11.05
Memo to me - come back to this re: Shane and the Operative.
 
 
FinderWolf
00:48 / 09.11.05
cinescape sez:

>> Amazon.com has recently posted the cover art for the SERENITY DVD, which will be released on December 20th.

The suggested retail price is $29.98. [someone said in a message board about this news item that Amazon actually lists it at $20.98, not 29.98 - Finder footnote] The disc will feature:

Subtitles: English, Spanish, French
Dolby Digital 5.1
Commentary by: Writer/Director Joss Whedon
Deleted scenes and outtakes
Future History: The Story of Earth That Was What's in a Firefly
Re-Lighting the Firefly
Joss Whedon Introduction
 
 
FinderWolf
16:57 / 09.11.05
Whedon talks new Firefly and Buffy comics on his site:

>> JOSS WHEDON: And now on to the rumors and allegations section. Many of you want to know what the future holds. Anxiety, hurricanes, and Male Pattern Baldness. But maybe also some art-stuff, which is really what you guys are into. No, I don't know anything about sequels, or spinoffs, or Nathan's President for Life gig. I'll keep my ear to the ground of course, but for now I'm just going to rest on my laurels (I have two). Oh! Oh! But I will tell you that Brett and I are talking about another three part comic, and it's gonna be a hoot. Takes place during the show, and has some sweet character deaths -- I mean moments! ("And what brings you to our ship, FutureTara..?") Sorry. Horrible taste. (Empty inside!) But wait'll you see the cover...

“Speaking of Dark Horse Comics, they are starting a new Buffy comic, and as I understand it, it will take place after the end of Buffy and Angel and be canon in the Buffy world. And I understand it that way 'cause I'M WRITING IT. I'm kicking off the book with a four issue arc that finds Buffy -- you guessed it -- living in Italy with The Immortal. (Scott [Allie] -- don't be mad I spoiled the announcement -- saying it means I have to finish it.) Then I'll be overseeing the book more closely, to make sure it remains true. Gonna be interesting. And it just might tie in to...

“The infamous Spike movie. Still haven't finalized anything, but I feel that very soon I'll be able to go to James and say something a lot more interesting than "Wouldn't it be cool if..." 'Course, I just hope he's free some time this decade. See how my peeps is all actifying! Tomorrow night is AMIAS, (that's alias with Acker in it.) Happy. And totally jealous.

“See, the Buffyverse glows in my brain with a new, overreaching arc that will include the comics, Spike, and more. It's taking shape and soon you will know its name. And you will tremble.

“Then of course there's a little thing called X-Men, who are apparently supposed to become astonishing again real soon. I miss me my Cassiday. Can't wait to see the fan response when I kill Wolverine and replace him with fan-fave Marrow.

“Well, I certainly can't say much more, except that Wonder Woman is finally kicking ass that is not my ass, as in, I'm loving this script. She's saving the world in a tiara, people; this is why there's a me!”
 
 
Benny the Ball
08:00 / 10.11.05
I'm two episodes away from finishing the Firefly series. I can kind of see the point about not being m/any chinese characters - but I kind of liked that they were this unseen presence, as others have said, living in the core, the outer core being these desperate-to-please their masters types. It kind of reminded me of a fantasy series I remember reading years ago (name escapes me) about a future where China is the only power on earth, but the master all sit up in these towers, and lower down the different classes and races struggle to survive.

Anyway, the series has been great so far, started slowly, but the middle section has been brilliant. I'll watch the film again after watching the whole run, just to see what else I get out of it.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:02 / 10.11.05
(Benny- you probably mean Chung K'Uo, I think they're called, by David Wingrove. I read the first one and quite enjoyed it).
 
 
Benny the Ball
20:46 / 10.11.05
Stoatie, them the books - they are very good, a bit of a Firefly feel to bits of them from what I remember.

Only two episodes still to go, ever....
 
 
FinderWolf
19:08 / 16.12.05
Saw this on another message board, for what it's worth - might be worth looking into if you have a hankering to purchase both BG and the Serenity movie on DVD:

>> If you purchase 'Battlestar Galactica: Season 2.0', it has a COUPON good for $10 off the purchase of 'Serenity'. I just picked up my BSG 2.0 set at Bestbuy today, and I can confirm this. None of that 'mail-in rebate' crap.

Addendum: Apparently, the same coupon's on BSG: Season 1 too. This is slightly old news, I know...but a deal THIS good is worth a mention!

Addendum #2: Both dvd's might have to be on the same receipt (though it's not indicated anywhere on the coupon) for this to work. It might be the case, as there are TWO bar codes on it.

They also mentioned something about the bar code coupon being on the actual outside wrapper of whichever BG box it is.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:05 / 27.12.05
Joss says in a recent Entertainment Weekly that it seems there won't be any more Firefly/Serenity-related stuff, movies or TV, as the movie didn't do very well despite the excellent overall reviews it got. Universal's just not that psyched about the property anymore, and so Joss is considering Serenity the end of the characters' story for the time being.
 
 
iamus
00:19 / 28.12.05
That's it.

I'm never getting excited about anything ever again.
 
 
doglikesparky
11:41 / 28.12.05
Aw, that's a real shame. Wasn't there some talk of doing a couple more comics at one point?
 
 
Tamayyurt
13:15 / 28.12.05
Yeah, that sucks. I got the DVD for Christmas so far the extras aren't all that.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:01 / 28.12.05
Joss is doing an Angel or Buffy comic (can't remember which); I think he's co-writing it with the guy who co-wrote the Serenity miniseries. There was talk of doing more Serenity/Firefly comics, in fact now that I think of it, there was an article on Newsarama a while back with art from the upcoming series, so that must be truly happening.

But other than a few comics, the story of Firefly/Serenity is done for now...but you never know what time will bring. I have a feeling, though, that once Joss does his horror film and his Wonder Woman film, he might just take off in Hollywood and do other non-Firefly projects.
 
 
A fall of geckos
15:03 / 28.12.05
Joss Wheadon's posted about this on his website:

------------------------------------------

From Whedonesque;

All right, now I have to jump in and set the record straight. EW is a fine rag, but they do take things out of context. Obviously when I said I had 'closure', what I meant was "I hate Serenity, I hated Firefly, I think my fans are stupid and Nathan Fillion smells like turnips." But EW's always got to put some weird negative spin on it. But so we're clear once and for all: If you read a quote saying "I'd love to do more in this 'verse with these actors in any medium" all I'm saying is that Nathan has a turnipy odor. It's not his fault, he doesn't eat a lot of them but everyone else in the cast noticed it and tht's not really something I'm prepared to deal with any more. And Jewel said outright she wouldn't do scenes with him except stuff like the SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER funeral scene which was outside in a high SPOILER wind. So if I do manage to find another incarnation for my beloved creation, it will have been totally against my will.

I hope that clears everything up. Oh, and when I say I want to do a Spike movie, it means I have a bunion on my toe.

-joss (by which I mean Tim)

(no, actually me.)

joss | December 21, 02:12 CET
 
 
FinderWolf
20:09 / 12.02.06
Australian Serenity DVD has more features than US or anywhere else's version:

Saw this on a comics-related board:
--------------

Movies - Serenity Australian DVD

So the fine folks in Australia get a much more packed version of Serenity on DVD.

Loads of special features not seen on the North American version, plus a nice tin package.

http://www.ezydvd.com.au/item.zml/784707

Special Features:

A Filmmakers Journey - Journey with Joss from Script to Screen (exclusive to Australian DVD)
Joss Whedon Q&A Session - Filmed at Fox Studios in Sydney (exclusive to Australian DVD)
Extended Scenes (exclusive to Australian DVD)
Take a Walk on Serenity - Cast and Crew take us on a special tour of the Serenity ship (exclusive to Australian DVD)
The Green Clan - Expose on Cinematographer Jack Green and his team (exclusive to Australian DVD)
Deleted Scenes
Outtakes
Future History - The Story of Earth That Was
What's In A Firefly
Re-lighting The Firefly
Joss Whedon Introduction
Feature Commentary
Easter Egg - We'll Have A Fruity Oaty Good Time

[the poster who posted this then wrote:]

I reckon this being Universal it's likely they'll release it here sometime in the not too distant future.
 
  

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