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Sax
10:44 / 03.03.06
Sax, you weren't off sick. You were bunking off, watching daytime tv with your nipples rouged.

It's how Jeremy Kyle likes it. The little tart.
 
 
alas
12:07 / 03.03.06
SK: I am an anti-jargon Nazi

And I am the offending jargon wielder. I'll grant you that "unpack" has all the grace of "touch base" or "who moved my cheese" about it..."My bad," man.

But, you do realize you followed up my request for clarity with a post characterized by sentences like:

The fact that there is meritocratic division of opinion dictates that a simple set of rules cannot be applied and with a situation as complex as this the pursuit of such would be foolish and destined for failure.

Frankly, you at least understood what was meant by "unpack," unsavory as I admit the word is. I'm still not sure what "meritocratic division of opinion" is or where the dictating is coming from in the passive voice world of your response, but I suspect my attorney might?
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
12:22 / 03.03.06
That would be a division of opinion that is determined by the merits and values of the viewpoint or viewer. i.e. when you look at the issue from one angle you will appreciate aspects a b and c more than aspects x y and z.

I'll admit to an excess use of legal style language, not because I think it makes me look like a member of the throbbing frontal lobe brigade, but because I find it very exact which is comfortable to me.

passive voice world That's the sound of things going over my head.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:25 / 03.03.06
I think that's just a subjective division of opinion (or, since opinions are pretty much by definition subjective, just a division of opinion) - a meritocratic division of opinion would be one in which the division of opinion functioned accorded to the merits of each opinion: so, presumably, the most meritorious opinion would have the greatest number of supporters.
 
 
alas
13:30 / 03.03.06
Your use of "meritocratic" doesn't seem to fit standard uses of that term, as Haus indicates.

I find it very exact which is comfortable to me.

Well, 1) it is jargon. 2) it comes from a specific tradition that requires many years of legal training, so it may be "comfortable" for you, but that's the biggest problem with jargon: not just that it's occasionally annoying, but that it's impenetrable.

I tried to google "meritocratic division of opinion" in fact in order to see if maybe it's a phrase that's widely used anywhere, found no examples in the world of google. If you google "define: "passive voice" you'll find several clear definitions.

It's arguably jargon, I suppose, but we teach this phrase to children at about 7th or 8th grade in the US (13/14 year olds)--not that they apparently retain it. It's possible a different term is often used in UK schools for this grammatical structure: In the passive voice, the subject receives the action of the verb (eg The President was killed). See also Active Voice..

Outside of law and some other disciplines, style books caution against it, as it has the effect of concealing the actor(s) or agent(s) in a sentence, and is often, but not always, obfuscatory. In Politics and the English Language(British writer) George Orwell lists the use of the passive voice as one of the tricks by means of which the work of prose-construction is habitually dodged. And, he notes: The inflated style is itself a kind of euphemism. A mass of Latin words falls upon the facts like soft snow, blurring the outlines and covering up all the details.

The politics of your prose's impenetrability in that thread in particular are problematic, as I tried to indicate, particularly given what fred and lepidopteran had pointed out, and which you didn't ever address. No one writes perfect prose all the time, but to defend your own prose with "well I'm comfortable with it" is no defense at all.

By the way, on re-reading it, that Orwell essay should be required reading for Barbelith.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
14:34 / 03.03.06
2) it comes from a specific tradition that requires many years of legal training,

I do apologise but I actually laughed out loud when I read this. Please dismiss the notion that I have undergone many years of training for anything, at all, ever, for both our sakes.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
14:45 / 03.03.06
Your use of "meritocratic" doesn't seem to fit standard uses of that term, as Haus indicates.

It would appear that I was using it in a rather wrong manner. Unfortunately for anyone caring to read my stuff this is something of an occupational hazard, for which I apologise.

the biggest problem with jargon: not just that it's occasionally annoying, but that it's impenetrable.

I would go for inappropriate but there you have it.

I tried to google "meritocratic division of opinion" in fact in order to see if maybe it's a phrase that's widely used anywhere, found no examples in the world of google. If you google "define: "passive voice" you'll find several clear definitions.

I assure you that it is of my own devisong and thus I am solely responsible for how crap it is.

It's possible a different term is often used in UK schools for this grammatical structure:

I barely recall my grammatical education, as I suspect you may have guessed.

but to defend your own prose with "well I'm comfortable with it" is no defense at all.

Don't mistake defense with explanation. I never said it was right, just that it is how it is.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
15:01 / 03.03.06
I don't like unpack either, SK. When I first used to hear the idiom, I thought the speaker meant to say unpick and that made sense to me: teasing out the detail, like teasing out the stitches in a pattern.

Unpack made me think of packing and unpacking wounds. Maybe the verb to unpack is used a lot more in the US for everyday activities, like unpacking groceries or a suitcase. I wouldn't use unpack in either of those contexts. I'd say put away the groceries and empty the suitcase. But maybe I'm just odd.

Unpack has taken over, like the grey squirrel, and even I now say that rather than the red-squirrelly unpick.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:07 / 03.03.06
I quite like the implied sense that unpacking is something that people with large amounts of baggage would do well to essay...
 
 
Mourne Kransky
15:11 / 03.03.06
Can see that connotation and it conjures a helpful image.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
15:18 / 03.03.06
I quite like the implied sense that unpacking is something that people with large amounts of baggage would do well to essay...

Now you're just doing this to hurt me.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:22 / 03.03.06
Sorry, TSK - wasn't intending to direct that at you. More in the:

"It's obvious that feminism has led to systematic injustice in the persecution of men by false assault claims."

"Could you unpack that, please?"
 
 
Aertho
15:43 / 03.03.06
"baggage" unpack-ed

You mean there was another connotation? I always thought that is what it meant. Loosening up the stuffed suitcase of ideas, trying to make it fit through the metal detector.
 
 
pointless & uncalled for
18:12 / 03.03.06
There is a part of me that so desperately wants to post best thread ever eleventy-one in the Feminism 101 thread and it annoys me that really I can't.

OK, really I'm annoyed with myself but that's that little demon exercised.
 
 
Olulabelle
17:24 / 04.03.06
Still the kthnxbye thing. Stopitstopitstopit.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:56 / 04.03.06
Please do. Before I hurt someone.
 
 
Spaniel
18:02 / 04.03.06
Talk to Haus. I do believe it's his sickness.
 
 
The Falcon
00:48 / 05.03.06
I like 'kthxbye' when used properly. No 'n' though, and you have to do a proper, possibly berating post first.

I couldn't just drop it now. I'd have to expound and shit.

k?

thx.

bye.
 
 
The Falcon
01:03 / 05.03.06
Also, unspecified grudges are an irritant - 'oh, there was one post(er) which/who fucked me off' (not singling out here at all, just the latest incidence of.)

Just say it, instead of alluding please, and then it can be properly addressed by the community. Also, I tend to get quite badly paranoid unless or until I can work out who they're about (and it isn't me.)
 
 
Mourne Kransky
01:49 / 05.03.06
loll
 
 
Olulabelle
02:05 / 05.03.06
Oh, so you prefer the name and shame route do you Duncan?

Why?

Do you like the aggro?

kthxbye.

(Is that how you do it?)
 
 
Olulabelle
02:08 / 05.03.06
Not singling out at all, no. Just linking to my post. Isn't that singling out?

That post was specifically relating to the women's thread in policy and in actual fact the poster in question didn't fuck me off. I thought the post was funny, but not in THAT PARTICULAR THREAD.

And no, actually it wasn't you.
 
 
The Falcon
13:47 / 05.03.06
Look, Lula, I'm really sorry if you're upset. I did think the second half of the bracket quantified things a bit, and also that it might be an idea to practice what I preached, no?

Here's another example of what I'm talking about; like I say, these are just the most recent that spring to mind. I ain't got an axe to grind with either you or Alex, but it seems to me if you're willing to go to such lengths to describe your irritants (or whatever, what you consider inappropriate in this case) it'd maybe be an idea to go the whole hog and just link to them for everyone's benefit, rather than pontificate around an object.

Am I a fan of confrontation? Sometimes. Sometimes it makes my tummy hurt. I do think it's better to be forthright though, yes.
 
 
The Falcon
13:52 / 05.03.06
Sorry, also meant to say, if you need or want to discuss this further you can always feel free to p.m. me.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
13:52 / 05.03.06
But usually, it goes like this:

Someone does some stupid shit

We all get pissed off

We start a thread about why we're pissed off about the stupid shit

To avoid more stupid shit we don't name the person
 
 
The Falcon
14:01 / 05.03.06
Yes, I see now. That schema is clearly diamondlike in its perfection because nothing makes for a read like a good, insinuative carp.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:42 / 05.03.06
As overfishing of verbs continues, formerly uncommon breeds such as "carp" and "pontificate" are increasingly finding their way onto tables.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
14:46 / 05.03.06
Sorry, but my list shows pretty much how things work, yeah? In nearly all the cases where a thread's been started with "I won't name the poster, but this" it's been in the fallout of a disagreement.

And, Duncan, seriously, "carping"?
 
 
Ganesh
14:48 / 05.03.06
A good, smirkily insinuative carp, yesterday.

 
 
All Acting Regiment
14:56 / 05.03.06
 
 
The Falcon
17:01 / 05.03.06
Sure, carp:

To find fault in a disagreeable way; complain fretfully.

A fretful complaint
 
 
All Acting Regiment
17:18 / 05.03.06
 
 
The Falcon
17:47 / 05.03.06
*sigh* but also kind of lol.

I like the word. I am annoyed this is not shared.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:50 / 05.03.06
Oh, I like the word. The usage, however, was unnecessarily rude and confrontational.
 
 
The Falcon
18:57 / 05.03.06
Aye, fair enough. Sorry Legba. Thanks all for the lovely pics.

(no %s)
 
  

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