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Barbannoy

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17:18 / 01.02.06

(aside) Matt, at the next available opportunity, you should change your name to "out-Haus welcome matt."

Or maybe I'm just barbannoyed that you got yourself barbequoted at such a tender age.(/aside)

17:31 / 01.02.06

i like that i was accused of being passive aggressive and then i find an entire thread devoted to passive aggression right here! this is so cool. talking about people as if they arent here or dont have ways of reaching them via personal message.

believe me, if i knew that the way to reach you people wasnt thru illogical arguments but rather by being cool, i would have adjusted my approach earlier on.

and WHERE did you find that picture of me? i know you want to kiss it. the picture i mean.

i'm a veteran of a few forum-type thingies, mostly because i live in a cultural vacuum. i think it's correct, at least in my personal experience, that the jumping on and snarkiness levels are pretty high around here. not that thats a bad thing. but it's funny because usually those sorts of things are associated with a less strict sort of organization. this is just a first impression, but the place in general, strikes me as incredibly anal-retentive. i'm sure that feeling will pass.

anyway, thats what annoys me, so far. aside from the misquotes and other silliness.

if you in particular have bothered me, you've gotten a personal message about it. but this is still a neat idea.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

17:37 / 01.02.06

ShadowSax this is just a first impression, but the place in general, strikes me as incredibly anal-retentive. i'm sure that feeling will pass.

Heh, I wouldn't bet on it.

18:13 / 01.02.06

heh. the second time i read that, it sounded a little intentionally excretive, the anal-retentive and passing thing. but it wasnt meant that way. ah, language.

21:53 / 01.02.06

thanks, id entity. Great suggestion. Wonder if Haus ever thought of that pun...?

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:01 / 01.02.06

I have a nasty feeling I used it a year or two back...

Hello, Shadowsax. Great that you don't believe in personal attacks. I can see that finding yourself cited in a list of annoying things about Barbelith might be a bit upsetting. Conversely, have you noticed that the jumping on and snarkiness levels, as you put it, seem to be noticeably higher around.. well, you? And specifically you when you advance bad arguments, try to insult and belittle people rather than own to your own lack of understanding of the issues and data and generally force people towards the snark side?

If you generally hang out on Ladies?No Likey!Forum, and have a general "me no likey ladies" approach, you're unlikely to have received the same reaction before, I realise, but it might be worth considering whether it might just be at least in part you rather than Barbelith that has led to your frosty reception.

21:14 / 02.02.06

haus, you're so cute when you insist on yapping instead of just shutting the f up and drinking your beer.

i have strong feelings about feminism. i dont like it. i also have strong feelings about women. i love them. i love them all. i love all men, too. i pretty much love everybody, but i'm hard-pressed to find an ongoing political movement that hasnt caused some problems here and there. for myself, i'm able to separate political and social movements from the individuals participating in them. i'm the first one to categorically ridicule the organization of catholicism, but most of the people in my family are practicing catholics and, outside of its problems, the church absolutely provides many positive things for many people, none of whom would ever consider going on a crusade and slaughtering children. so if some took personal offense to my criticism of a political movement, then i cant help but feeling that THEYRE the ones who need to be told, "it isnt all about you."

one of these days, haus, i'm going to end up doing something nice for you and you're going to feel like a real sillypants.

21:26 / 02.02.06

Oh dear...

21:35 / 02.02.06

Indeed. That's quite annoying. And so much of it.

unheimlich manoeuvre

21:40 / 02.02.06

Oh dear indeed. Annoying even, Shadowsax.

21:47 / 02.02.06

At least he doesn't sign his fucking posts.

22:23 / 02.02.06

i have strong feelings about feminism. i dont like it.

i'm not expecting you to be able to, but if you would start a thread on that i would certainly read it.

i am interested mostly because i want you to explain why a campaigner for equal rights has a problem with something concerned with the same damn thing.

feminism is not what you think it is, i reckon.
start a thread and prove me wrong.

its probably only fair to warn you you will need to bring more than a gut feeling to the table unless you want to be laughed out of town.

one of these days, haus, i'm going to end up doing something nice for you and you're going to feel like a real sillypants.

i reeeeee-he-heeally dounbt it, somehow.
he's not the one parading his (...how to sugar coat...deficient? under rehearsed? ill thought?lets go with) half-witted ideas around the board.

see, i have a feeling that it might be worth considering whether it might just be at least in part you rather than Barbelith that has led to your frosty reception are going to be the words ringing in your ears, if indeed you and he break bread.

it probably wont feel like you can admit that for a good month or so, mind. that's only to be expected.

22:49 / 02.02.06

I wrote this elsewhere but I think it belongs in this thread:

It seems like there is some kind of skin-thinning disease going around Barbelith lately. It's one thing to challenge Shadowsax's inability to support his "facts" with anything other than misogynist claptrap. But first Stoatie gets uneasy over one poster's use of "Social Darwinism" and then (presumably male) posters in the "stuff you find attractive..." thread are labeled het-panicked simply for mentioning that they are attracted to women.

If, for example, a poster identifying as het female or gay male got on the thread and said something along the lines of "I like men who..." would they receive similar treatment? If not, why?

We all agree that it is necessary to challenge the predominant societal assumptions. But when whole threads get derailed because someone has the audacity to assert their sexuality (and what's wrong with that?) then we run the risk of turning into exactly the kind of facists that we come to Barbelith to avoid.

22:59 / 02.02.06

If, for example, a poster identifying as het female or gay male got on the thread and said something along the lines of "I like men who..." would they receive similar treatment?

*shrugs*

I just, uh, have done.

23:17 / 02.02.06

Yes you have Ganesh, but prior to that I think Liger has a valid a point with regard to the 'het-panicked' issue.

As for the other recent comments here, well I'm really rather barbannoyed that the barbannoy thread has turned into a personal grouching thread about a particular member.

If you have a problem with a poster, perhaps you should be posting about it in the policy. Don't make bitchy comments in a generic 'annoy' thread. It's one to thing to say, 'I am frustrated with people who sign their posts' and quite another to say, 'so-and-so fucks me right off.' Whatever that particular person has done.

Put yourself in that person's shoes for a minute. You open a thread which is about annoying parts of Barbelith and you find almost a whole page dedicated to naming you 'in person'. If the poster is that bad, then, I repeat, go and talk about it in the policy; that's the place for it.

The latter part of this thread is starting to smack of nasty little gang comments in the corner of the playground and quite frankly makes me feel ashamed.

23:26 / 02.02.06

Personally, Olulabelle, I have a problem with the above post, and have expressed that. I've yet to explore the Fathers4Justice thread.

I do, however, become annoyed when people use "I'm ashamed" to mean "you should be ashamed" or "you are shameful".

23:59 / 02.02.06

No, it makes me feel ashamed. Me personally. I feel personally ashamed at the fact that a board which I have been a member of for three years feels right and justified in making personal bitchy comments in a thread about general annoying things.

My post was in reference to the bitchy comments personally naming Shadowsax. Perhaps I should have said 'if one' and not 'if you' but I don't have the linguistical eloquence of Haus and so I didn't. My apologies.

00:02 / 03.02.06

Perhaps you ought to post about it in the Policy?

00:25 / 03.02.06

Look Ganesh, I haven't said 'so-and so is ...' I have just said I think it's wrong to post personal comments about people which relate to other threads in a thread about generally annoying things. I'm not really understanding what the problem is here.

00:38 / 03.02.06

Well...

The guy's posting to Barbelith.

The thread is about things that piss you off about Barbelith.

If the guy's posts, to Barbelith, are pissing people off, then posting about them on this thread is logical.

That said, it does seem

*passive-agressive, and maybe cowardly, not to confront the poster directly, but rather to talk shit about him in a forum that he may or may not read

*a little obnoxious to monopolize the thread with discussion of/debate with one evidently obnoxious (I haven't read the evidently obnoxious material in question) poster, when surely there must be, at any given moment, dozens of other things about Barbelith that are actively pissing off people who have had no interaction with the object of everyone else's ire. Which itself is something about Barbelith that is probably pissing people off.

Why not just start a thread called What's Pissing You Off About (That Guy Whose Name I Can't Remember -- sorry, man) Today?

00:46 / 03.02.06

I have just said I think it's wrong to post personal comments about people which relate to other threads in a thread about generally annoying things. I'm not really understanding what the problem is here.

And I'm not really seeing the problem with talking in a 'things that are annoying me' thread about a poster who one is finding annoying. Other than you personally thinking it's "wrong", obviously. The thread-starter hasn't, as far as I can see, specified 'no names'. I'm thinking it would be passive-aggressive if it didn't name names.

I'm off to see what ShadowSax has actually written, to see whether this degree of annoyance seems justified (to me). If it's worse than the post above, I may be back with added bitchiness myself.

01:42 / 03.02.06

not to confront the poster directly

i'd suggest that you read the threads in question.
i and others have confronted hir directly, and hir responses have not been the most helpful.
hir main response is to ignore anyone who is not deferential enough to hir and hir opinions, so its hardly surprising tht some people feel the need to vent into space.

i have offered hir a willing reader if ze wishes to prove my opinion of hir wrong.
ze has so far ignored my challenge.

02:14 / 03.02.06

i'd suggest that you read the threads in question.

Point taken, though I think I have a pretty clear idea of what they must be like from having read this one.

02:20 / 03.02.06

yeah, but when you say we should confront him rather than sneak around in here, you ignore that we have done.
in those threads.
that you should read.
ye get meh?

02:23 / 03.02.06

Meh. I see your point, but I mean, if all you guys are gonna do is talk about him, not to him, then it's like, why not just start a thread about stuff that pisses you off, and post whatever you have to say in --

Oh, wait.

02:38 / 03.02.06

Anyway, I'm generally of the opinion that talking smack about a person should be done in the presence of that person; the nature of the board (i.e., it's a board) doesn't necessarily make that practical at all times, I will concede. It does seem a little bit cliquish sewing circle for my tastes, but it's clear you guys don't have a problem saying this stuff where he can read it, so...yeah, I dunno, I'm over it.

02:49 / 03.02.06

I wasn't sure where to place it, so I put in Policy, but here, you can read my defense of ShadowSax. To summarize if you're too lazy, I think we have been a little unfair, petty and somewhat cruel in jumping the gun and denouncing him as misogynist. Also, I think bitching about him in Barbannoy is somewhat unfair and petty - myself included.

03:45 / 03.02.06

say 'some of us' instead of 'we', please, or i'll be forced to explain in detail why i feel i am not a part of the problem you outline.

i may even use hand actions.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

05:47 / 03.02.06

Um, no, sorry Lula. The main reason I've grumbled about ShadowSax here rather than Policy was deliberate. Bringing him up in Policy would be if I thought his opinions and the way he expressed them were completely outside what we've established as the bounds of acceptable conversation on this board and whether people thought it was time to turn this over to Tom. He hasn't done anything like that yet. When he first turned up I PMed him because opposing views, especially those which seem to be born out of first hand experience are always useful on here.

So, I grumbled a bit in the Barbannoy thread because of his arguing style, in much the same way that people moan about other people in the office at work when they aren't around. And then we move on.

ONLY NICE THINGS

07:37 / 03.02.06

Agreed, I'm afraid. This is precisely not what we want to have in the Policy.

Eddie thirteen: The phrase you're looking for is "I was wrong".

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:15 / 03.02.06

Incidentally, on shame and ashamed:

No, it makes me feel ashamed. Me personally. I feel personally ashamed at the fact that a board which I have been a member of for three years feels right and justified in making personal bitchy comments in a thread about general annoying things.

I think the distinction here is that you are not personally ashamed of your own actions, Olula - rather, you feel shame for or one behalf of those who you feel should be feeling shame. As such, I'm afraid Ganesh is right - what you are actually saying is that other people are behaving in what you feel to be a shameful fashion.

09:23 / 03.02.06

Not to put words in Lula's mouth, here, but: perhaps she feels that, simply by her very membership in this community, some of the members of which are doing awful things—and by her failure to hitherto speak out against or otherwise prevent those things—she feels herself complicit in those actions.

Which is perhaps an extreme stance, but certainly not unheard of. It's a particularly Liberation Theology-style way to look at the problem, really.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:34 / 03.02.06

That was certainly how I read it- more a kind of "I am personally ashamed to call myself a member of a community which does these things" type vibe.

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:52 / 03.02.06

Actually, thinking about it...

Put yourself in that person's shoes for a minute. You open a thread which is about annoying parts of Barbelith and you find almost a whole page dedicated to naming you 'in person'.

Well, I might think to myself "you know, self, whereas I don't think I'm being annoying, clearly lots of other people do. Maybe I should stop and think about this?"

Having said which, I speak as somebody who does come across this, not infrequently...

10:29 / 03.02.06

How is it for you Haus?

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