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Moderation requests & discussion thereof

 
  

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Smoothly
19:55 / 29.09.06
Hmm. To give PW the benefit of the doubt, at a pinch I suppose there's an argument that the first 3 paragraphs are superfluous and present a small risk of being identifying. It's only the portion after "And here's where it gets interesting..."that is relevant and discussed subsequently. Isn't it? Could deleting those be a good compromise?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:56 / 29.09.06
Why's that exactly?

Why's that? Because it's a demand that your request be put through. Because it's a clear attempt to neuter the whole process of distributed moderation.

"This, moderators, is what will happen. You are not to think about it, you are simply to agree".

Your most recent post to the 'Wishlist' thread is further evidence of what is fast becoming your standard mode of operation within Policy - see also the recent demands that threads be deleted/remain unlocked at your command, without any consideration for other board users.
 
 
Char Aina
19:58 / 29.09.06
Why's that exactly?

i cant speak for randy, but i wouldnt pay it any mind either.
the tone is bizarre, and the content is ridiculously obvious.

and note: this is me posting on the internet, and you are reading my post on a computer.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:02 / 29.09.06
Could that be a compromise?

Imo, yes. What was proposed previously was that about 70% of the entire post be wiped, leaving little more than the one-liners at the end.

As I said above, I'm not going to vote either way on it should that post be put up for moderation a second time. Life's too short.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
20:03 / 29.09.06
Fuck you.

My friend exists.

I saw hir earlier.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
20:05 / 29.09.06
Sorry, that should have been "neuter you".
 
 
Smoothly
20:05 / 29.09.06
No one is doubting that your friend exists, pw.
 
 
Char Aina
20:09 / 29.09.06
what?
are you drunk, dude?
please tell me you are drunk.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
20:17 / 29.09.06
I'm looking out for a friend, who, sadly, I previously "made an example of".

I had a coffee and a smoke earlier. That's about it. Oh, and some humus and bread.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:18 / 29.09.06
Just in case toksik is right and we're having some difficulty focusing on the screen tonight, I'll repeat:

I'd imagine that the same edit will be put forwards again. When it is, I'll skip the action and let others make the decision.

And a fourth time:

As I said above, I'm not going to vote either way on it should that post be put up for moderation a second time.

Alternatively, if you've taken any of this on board yet, Smoothly just suggested an alternate edit that you could try that wouldn't remove the sense from that thread. As of yet, you've still not bothered.
 
 
Char Aina
20:23 / 29.09.06
so why are you being aggro about the existence of your mate?
if you are angry about their exposure, that's understandable.
it's nobody's fault but your own, mind.
you should be angry at yourself, if anybody, and i dont even think that's necessary or helpful.

are you reading the thread?
 
 
Smoothly
20:26 / 29.09.06
For the record, as things stand, I would disagree another attempt to delete the bulk of that post, and if the compromise edit was proposed I'd skip it. Without going through the subsequent 6 pages of the thread I can't be sure that the first three paragraphs don't get picked up later, and I'd prefer someone with an investment in the relevant sections of that thread to weigh in.
 
 
Olulabelle
20:41 / 29.09.06
I would say it's a fairly contentious thread to be deleting any part of.
 
 
Smoothly
20:48 / 29.09.06
Quite.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:30 / 29.09.06
PW: Look, I hate to say this, but I think you might want to try to avoid posting to Barbelith after smoking, esp: skunk. Notwithstanding your very rude PMs to me (and on the day of my birthday party, to boot), you're basically demanding that Barbelith, a board which contains hundreds of people and has muddled through for six years, changes its entire modus operandi to suit the wishes of you, who have yet to do or say anything, to my knowledge, that would confer that privilege.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:49 / 29.09.06
Realistically, I can't see the entire post actually identifying anyone*. Barbelithically, if such a word exists, I'd be in agreement with Lula, toksik, Smoothly, Randy and Haus.

I'm generally glad I'm not a Policy mod. Tonight not being a Policy mod feels like winning the lottery.

*if it's still a concern tomorrow, consider Smoothly's original suggestion... then come up with a damn good argument why ze should go back to it. It seems, to me, a pretty good compromise, if you can justify it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:38 / 29.09.06
Demanding that moderators simply rubber-stamp moderation requests was done by Innercircle. Becoming abusive when this - questioning of that privilege - happened was also done by Innercircle, although he was by no means alone in this. We have precedent.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:25 / 30.09.06
On reflection, our other precedent is probably Cholister, who has waves of going through hir old posts obliterating everything that could be used a a personal reference point. However, a) these requests were largely accepted or altered to retain the sense of the thread in posts and topics that had been dead fro some time and b) this only happened after ze had stopped actually posting on the boards. Also, c) there was a suggestion that at least to some degree this paranoia might have originated in a genuine threat.

So, hmmmm. Personally, I don't think that "I know a mixed-race person who has a child" is exactly going to have the imaginary forces of evil in PW's world crying "At last, he's made a slip! Round up all the mixed-race women in London with children! There can't be more than... oh, fuck." Were I seeking to unravel the terrible, gnarly knot of PW's secret identity, which strikes me as a very dull way to pass the time, there really are easier ways to do it. So, I think that to accept the mod request on the grounds that PW no longer sees Barbelith as "safe" to reveal this utterly useless bit of personal information is a bad idea, because it further validates his feelings of victimhood. To accept a mod request which is framed as an order, of course, gives a false impression of how Barbelith functions, and extends the idea that the one who is demanding has a right to something nobody else on Barbelith has - to use moderators as a rubber-stamp on hir own decisions.

So, that's all tricky. Had I written that, I might subsequently have wished sincerely that I had not, because it would appears to be a case of me (if not a white person, then certainly one perceived generally as white) using his nonwhite chums as tools to claim superiority in a discussion of race. This ties in, by the way, to some of the PMs I've been receiving, but that's a somewhat different matter. I hope that if I asked for it to be moderated, I would acknowledge that this was the reason, as for me it would be - I might have a crack at the Pokemon passage as well, for that matter - and try to suggest an emendation (politely) which kept some sort of the sense - such as "There followed a touching but slightly bizarre story about assumptions made about people on the grounds of their appearance. No serious attempt by PW was made to tie this in to the topic under discussion, leading to a degree of confusion. It has been moderated because -" followed by some comprehensible explanation, which I would not presume to try to dredge.

I would not start to say "fuck you" to moderators when I didn't get my own way, and if I did, were there any subsequent point where I returned to coherence, I would probably apologise, nicely and without four paragraphs of the usual tedious hedging.

However, that's just what I'd do, and I can't speak for anyone else.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:58 / 30.09.06
Cholister generally requested, rather than demanded, changes, which I think made the mods more inclined to agree them.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:05 / 30.09.06
Yeah, Chol's requests were always courteous IME, even apologetic sometimes.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:09 / 30.09.06
Very true. The idea that approving the action is something that moderators _have_ to do - that is, that the board software has been constructed in error, and that moderators' duty is to correct this error by agreeing to demands for moderation as quick-smart as possible, is generally a bit of a danger sign. As I said, innercircle, also Modzero. It's a bit of a ledge, and we should probably start thinking about talking-down strategies.
 
 
HCE
13:27 / 30.09.06
Hm. So, is it possible to get very old posts edited? I can think of a few that still make my face red every time I think of them, from 2003 or so. Not sure how I'd be able to edit them so that everybody asking me what the hell I was talking about would make sense. Gah. Awkward teenage years, or web equivalent.
 
 
Kiltartan Cross
16:03 / 30.09.06
Paranoidwriter is being perfectly reasonable in not wanting to disclose personal information on the Internet, I think; not, specifically, this forum, perhaps, but it's browsable by anyone, after all. It's a sensible concern, regardless of whether removal of sections of the post would suit other purposes.

I'm not sure where I stand on the Barbelith moderation policy on edits - perhaps a better system would be to allow users to moderate as they wished, but to allow all visitors to view the complete edit history of a post, and allowing a post to be deleted by mods at the request and consent of the original poster? - but, hey, it is the board policy, so I shouldn't like to agree with phrasing moderation requests as demands. Still, it's hardly the end of the earth, and this place might be better served by a little more, uh, chill. Imagine, if you will, a suitably Gallic shrug at this point.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:17 / 30.09.06
Paranoidwriter is being perfectly reasonable in not wanting to disclose personal information on the Internet

Only, that's not what this is about. For one thing, if he didn't want to disclose personal info then perhaps he shouldn't have. I don't remember anybody forcing him to submit that post. For another, nobody could use it to identify either him or his mysterious friend.

Just so that you're aware, Kay, he's still not even bothered putting a second edit up. As such, I think it's fair to suspect that he was never all that concerned about it in the first place, y'know?
 
 
Kiltartan Cross
18:41 / 30.09.06
Only, that's not what this is about. For one thing, if he didn't want to disclose personal info then perhaps he shouldn't have. I don't remember anybody forcing him to submit that post. For another, nobody could use it to identify either him or his mysterious friend.

Ach, well, we all make mistakes. And to be fair to him, he might be, ah, writing a second edit off as not being worth the waste of electronic breath. I agree that it's probably not the most revealing thing in the world, though.
 
 
Olulabelle
23:53 / 30.09.06
There has been quite a lot of mention of PM's recently in a sort of casual, "I heard this in a PM " sort of way, which undermines the sender without actually giving away content. Clever.

I think if people want to refer to PM's they should actually refer to them directly, rather than allude to content. If you can't be arsed, or do not feel able to ask the sender for permission to reveal content then I would suggest not alluding to them at all.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
00:07 / 01.10.06
Hellooo!

Actually, Randyo, I was screwing around with my 'puter last night and managed to fuck up quite a lot of technical back-end stuff. To be honest, I briefly thought I might have been banned already, when I couldn't even log in here; but teh network I share seems to have been screwy as backwards corksrew lately (have said as much elsewhere on Babs, as well). Oh, and I turned off cookies, so... Doh!

Two things I'd like to highlight (and yes it's more threardrot):

Haus: Were I seeking to unravel the terrible, gnarly knot of PW's secret identity, which strikes me as a very dull way to pass the time, there really are easier ways to do it.

1) I gave you a clue earlier: "minor". 'Twas %nice% of Randy to link to the post I was trying to edit for privacy reasons, eh? Oh, minor is another word for "child", by the way.


Haus: PW: Look, I hate to say this, but I think you might want to try to avoid posting to Barbelith after smoking, esp: skunk.

2) Fuck off with your stupid ass, no consideration drug references. I said "smoke", not "toke". Whatever next? "Crack" jokes?

Oh, and I'm pretty sure some of you were drinking last night, you know that legal drug that makes people obnoxious and violent, sometimes. Maybe some of you shouldn't "post drunk", eh? And I could offer a link, for proof of my suspicions of your drinking behaviours last night (try the current "Late Shift" and cross-reference the times). Me? I can't be arsed anymore. No fun.


Some of you assume TOO much. That's fucked. Sort it out.


Oh, and yes, I'll type like this because speaking respectfully and formally gets me fucking nowhere in this thread, eh? No, I'm not angry, just board of banging my head off prick walls, applying common rules of etiquette and manners when they're not universally applied or respected.

Mind you, it's not all bad, though; some of you are pretty cool (IMO):

For example: Kay noted that there may be other reasons why I hadn't re-requested a mod move. Ze didn't assume I was being lazy or bloody minded. That was nice of hir: you know "basic respect".

And agin, sorry, Big Babs, but I'm too old to take shit from moody DJ's. e.g. In another thread recently I warned people that if they didn't start showing others "basic respect..." then I would treat them as they like to treat other life-forms. Kind of "fuck 'em if they can't take a joke", especially if they're laughing AT others, not WITH them, using the same basic "ha-ha I'm cleverer than you" schoolyard trick. I'm too old for that one, as well.

Good night, my joints are creaking.
 
 
bio k9
00:29 / 01.10.06
Fridgemagnet's old link needs to be deleted.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:34 / 01.10.06
I gave you a clue earlier: "minor"

paranoidwriter, if you want people to respond to you with any kind of weight then you can't write clues for moderators to pick up on. You need to elaborate clearly as to your intent and the nature of the situation that needs to be tackled and you need to do so with adequate care and attention and it will be viewed with that same regard. If this is something that you feel is truly important then sarcasm is not the tool to be employed. If you don't feel it is that important then you need to step away from the argument particularly if you can't be arsed anymore.

Some of you assume TOO much. That's fucked. Sort it out.

You are assuming that people will pick up on nuances adopted in an extremely casual way. They won't. Kay frankly has been extremely nice to you and about you when you're as guilty as anyone else in this thread of not showing any basic respect. You're putting in mod requests while being extremely reluctant to discuss the issues surrounding them. You expect people to pick up on the reasons without detailing them and you're aiming extremely cryptic generalisations about posting drunk, about people assuming too much, about basic etiquette not being followed. If you want other people to sort it out then you have to do it too because this isn't going to help anyone make a decision on editing out sensitive information.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:39 / 01.10.06
By the way does anyone have a problem if we change the title of this thread to "A Discussion of Moderation Requests" and start a new thread for the flagging up of moderation requests? I worry that posts like the one inbetween this discussion will be lost.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
02:21 / 01.10.06
Nina: Kay frankly has been extremely nice to you and about you when you're as guilty as anyone else in this thread of not showing any basic respect.

Nina, I think Kay and I know full well that I appreciated hir comment as I said as much in - my - post (above).

i.e. p.w: Kay noted that there may be other reasons why I hadn't re-requested a mod move. Ze didn't assume I was being lazy or bloody minded. That was nice of hir: you know "basic respect".


Nina: You are assuming that people will pick up on nuances adopted in an extremely casual way. They won't.


Well if they can make insinuations, surely they can pick up hints? Shall I make a few more....


Respect, People.


And please, give me a reason why I should now feel this is a safe space to be as clumsy as I was in that post and mention my RL friends online, here? And I mean "clumsy" because there ARE details in that post, and because I stupidly did not ask my friend's permission before typing about hir and hir "little angel". My fault, but one I was TRYING to rectify, and then....

And while we're discussing such mod' affairs: are members who are deemed trustworthy enough to me mod's REALLY trustworthy enough to moderate the posts and requests of those they clearly dislike or do not understand or those they favour too much; and (for that matter) even request titles, summaries, threads and posts get deleted/changed/moved?

I think it was xk (elsewhere) who suggested that maybe moderators should take a holiday from being moderators every so often. Personally, I wish moderators would have enforced set times "in office" (e.g. 9 months a year), but I've already used up my Policy wishes, so...

(P.S. RE- Good night; I couldn't sleep, so...)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
03:14 / 01.10.06
Luls, I'm not sure why you've become so oddly aggressive and hostile lately, but your insinuations aside, I'd be happy to quote Paranoidwriter's private messages if he is happy for me to do so. Until that time, I think it's reasonable to say that he has been sending me insulting private messages. I don't know what quoting them would add, however, since they are about as useful and in much the same style as his posts here.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
03:44 / 01.10.06
More generally, PW seems to have pretty much lifted his wheels from reading what people are actually writing about here - a bewildering, abusive post that references nothing said beforehand, and any request to clarify which would, of course, simply result in more abuse. As such, I don't see a lot of point in continuing to discuss this. If he can come up with an emendation that preserves the sense of the anecdote without endangering the privacy of two people who are not named or ascribed any particularly distinguishing features, and does not affect the comprehensibility of the responses, then he can submit a request for moderation. Or he can ask - very politely - the people who referenced the anecdote to edit their own posts, before submitting a request for moderation to his own post.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:28 / 01.10.06
paranoidwriter Oh, and yes, I'll type like this because speaking respectfully and formally gets me fucking nowhere in this thread, eh? No, I'm not angry, just board of banging my head off prick walls, applying common rules of etiquette and manners when they're not universally applied or respected.

So basically, your policy is "If you don't do what I say, I shall thcream and thcream until I am thick"? Much as you would like to believe that people are being mean to you because you are you, people are having problems because you are causing disruption in the Policy. You also seem to be wilfully ignorind what the moderators are saying, namely that they need to balance your desire to delete reference to the fact that you have friends against a need to maintain the integrity of the thread.

If that is too much for you and you truly believe that your friends and/or you are in danger of identification here is what you do.

1) Change your username to something that doesn't involve 'paranoidwriter'. After thirty days your record will no longer list that you were paranoid writer. As no-one who is talking with you has ever linked to your record it will not be immediately obvious that you are paranoidwriter.
2) Scramble your password so neither you nor anyone else can ever access your suit.
3) Email Tom with the number and web address of your record and ask him to delete it. This will not delete anything you posted, but it will make the links to your suit name dead.
4) Reapply to Barbelith, through the admissions process, with a different email address and, when you join, choose a different name to paranoid writer.
 
 
Olulabelle
07:25 / 01.10.06
Haus, I wasn't intentionally being aggressive or hostile and I feel upset that you have suggested I am being those things a lot. You have met me and I am suprised that you would label me an aggressive person.

Nevertheless, I am very sorry if that's how I appear to be.

Man, I feel the same as everyone else about the discussion in hand, but personal messages are supposed to be personal and I think they should remain that way. That's all.
 
  

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