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Morrison's All-Star Superman

 
  

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05:20 / 25.12.04
Would someone mind telling me what this great idea was?

For those of us still to read this could you please, please put this information in spoiler tags.
 
 
madfigs #32, now with wasabi
08:16 / 25.12.04
Here's an old interview with Millar where he mentions the ending:
The final ten pages I came up with in 1986 when reading Superman Issue #400 and a brilliant piece by Jim Steranko, but the twist at the very, very end was a riff on Kurt Busiek's Astro City character of the Samaritan that [New X-Men writer] Grant Morrison had told me about. It's really a swipe, but nobody seems to have noticed. Until now, of course.

So apparently, the idea in question was...


** SPOILER SPACE AS REQUESTED















** Information coming up, don't read this part if you don't want to know!

Superman was sent back in time from the Earth of the future, where our sun has become a Red Giant and the planet is about to crash into it. Also, he's a descendant of Lex Luthor.
It really reminded me of Tim Burton's "Planet of the Apes" remake. Sure, it was an unpredictable twist, but what was the point exactly?
Still an interesting concept for a series in any case.

** That was the spoiler, I warned you not to read it!


















** SOME MORE SPOILER SPACE
 
 
---
09:01 / 25.12.04
Haha, thanks. Sorry for being a bit over dramatic with the request, I woke up with a hangover and was gutted at the thought of accidentally reading the end of it.
 
 
FinderWolf
00:22 / 26.12.04
i too am very psyched for the return of Solaris the Tyrant Sun.

And Grant's re-imagining of the Bizarros as zombies....reminiscent of his revamp of Starro in JLA.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
12:50 / 26.12.04
Yeah. There's really no reason that they couldn't be fucking terrifying. I love Bizarro however he comes. Such a pure dead great idea.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
13:08 / 26.12.04
read Steranko's story here.


and more about SUPERMAN #400 here.
 
 
FinderWolf
01:53 / 30.12.04
Apropo of nothing, it always bothered me when in the Byrne revamp era, they had Superman say "yeah." He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that would ever say "yeah." A firm, resolute "Yes" if he meant yes. Roger Stern had him say that once, maybe Louise Simonson, maybe Byrne. It happened like 5 times over the course of a few years in the late 80s/early 90s Superman books and always rang very untrue to me. I wonder if DC editorial had arguments over this. I wonder if anyone cared about it or noticed it besides me.

But I feel confident Morrison has never had Superman say "yeah" and never will.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
17:29 / 30.12.04
=O
 
 
Triplets
19:06 / 30.12.04
 
 
FinderWolf
19:26 / 30.12.04
Is that Scream drawn by Gahan Wilson?

Come on, folks, I didn't say I was losing sleep over Superman saying "yeah," just that it seemed out of character. Same thing with Batman saying "chicks dig the car" in the laughable BATMAN FOREVER. Batman/Bruce Wayne should never utter the word "chicks" unless talking about baby chickens that have been mind-controlled by Oswald Cobblepot with little hats from the Mad Hatter.
 
 
A
02:00 / 31.12.04
Superman would say "yeah". He's not some uptight square. My grandmother syas "yeah".

He wouldn't say "Blast!", when he was displeased, though.
 
 
DaveBCooper
09:33 / 31.12.04
Coming in late, but : with regard to ‘servicing trademarks’ or ‘servicing existing franchises’ (which diztastic voyage referred to), I have to note I’ve never seen this phrase (which is essentially negative) used to describe anything other than comics-related work.
I’ve never heard people talk about writers servicing the West Wing franchise or the Star Trek franchises in this way – when Stephen King and William Gibson wrote X-Files episodes, people didn’t get all funny about established and popular writers working with established and popular characters in the same way as they do in comics.
Why, I wonder, is this ? Whilst I know what the ‘servicing’ comments mean at the base level, why is it so often to comics and not to other media ? I think the contemptuous use of the phrase may originate with Warren Ellis, and whilst it’s a suitably snappy Spider-Jerusalem-esque line, it’s not necessarily any more true than Ellis’s claim that Lex and Clark in ‘Smallville’ spend a lot of time watching each other’s mouths. A snappy phrase does not necessarily reflect an eternal truth.

Anyway, as for the All-Star thing : I find Grant Morrison’s writing interesting for the most part, and I like Frank Quitely’s artwork, so I’ll check this book out. Simple as that.
 
 
Jack Fear
22:59 / 31.12.04
I’ve never heard people talk about writers servicing the West Wing franchise or the Star Trek franchises in this way...

Get your ears checked, son.

Star Trek seems to me to be the first example that people latch onto when they're talking about this kind of thing--I know I've used the comparison myself, and your bete noire Warren Ellis has done the same.

The reason that comparisons to other media don't arise much is because the issue simply doesn't arise as much. Take your other hypothetical, The West Wing; firstly, the show hasn't got the track record or the cultural ubiquity of a Superman or a Star Trek. Second, it's closely identified with the work of a single creator (unlike corporate comics, which are by design the work of divers hands)--any writer working the show is either Aaron Sorkin or Trying To Be Aaron Sorkin.

True franchises, in the comics sense, are comparatively rare in other media: soap operas, Doctor Who, James Bond movies, the Hardy Boys and the other Stratemyer creations, those Flowers in the Attic books. And all of those have been discussed in terms of "servicing the franchise." So as much as you would like those mean ol' words to all be nastybad old Wozza's fault, it just ain't so.

Oh, and this?

when Stephen King and William Gibson wrote X-Files episodes, people didn’t get all funny about established and popular writers working with established and popular characters in the same way as they do in comics.

Apples and oranges. For one thing, again, I would question whether one could legitimately refer to The X-Files as a franchise in the true sense: if the brand name alone were the selling point, then the show would still be on the air despite the departure of Morgan & Wong, Chris Carter, Duchovny and Anderson. But that's kind of beside the point.

The thing is that those episodes were the writers' equivalent of stunt casting. That is, the writers were selling the show, rather than the other way around. Stephen King is a fuckload more famous than the X-Files brand name ever was; William Gibson not so much--but he had and has a huge cachet with a certain constituency.

Also, neither King nor Gibson had grown up watching The X-Files, or dreamed all their lives of one day writing for it; nor did writing for The X-Files give either of their careers a "legitimacy" that it had theretofore lacked.

Imagine, however, if Stephen King or JK Rowling or David Mamet--or even Aaron Sorkin--signed a three-season contract as a staff writer for Enterprise, under the usual rules of the road for content and continuity in a Star Trek series. Whatever their protestations that they'd loved Trek since childhood, and always wanted to be a staff writer for this, the greatest of all TV shows, there would be whispers about the sell-out, the cash-grab, the lure of the steady paycheck. Names would be called. "Whore" would be one of them.

At the very least, it would be newsworthy: but in comics, it's business as usual. People think differently about this industry because this industry really is different.
 
 
Jack Fear
23:01 / 31.12.04
(Also, Superman would not say "Yeah," but neither would he use the formal "Yes"--as a Jimmy Stewart/Gary Cooper solid midwestern type, it would be "Yep.")
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:41 / 01.01.05
people didn’t get all funny about established and popular writers working with established and popular characters in the same way as they do in comics

Harlan Ellison's work on Babylon 5 made me feel a bit betrayed... I'm not sure why- think it was just unconscious anti-TV snobbery on my part, really. (Yeah, I know B5 wasn't as "established and popular", as such, but it seemed to be getting there at the time.)
 
 
bio k9
06:08 / 01.01.05
"Superman is a much more progressive figure than Jesus..."



I call bullshit on that.
 
 
A
09:32 / 01.01.05
This reminds me of the "Superman Vs Jesus" thread I started once upon a time. It's probably still buried in the recesses of the Conversation forum.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
11:08 / 01.01.05
Your bete noire Warren Ellis has done the same

Shouldn't that read " your other bete noire... " ?
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
14:53 / 01.01.05
All Star Superman is shaping up to be the best comics handjob ever.

That interview where he's talking about interviewing the guy dressed as Superman in the character of superman made me so happy I wanted to set myself ablaze and backflip over the moon. This is going to be fucking brilliant.
 
 
---
10:27 / 02.01.05
All Star Superman is shaping up to be the best comics handjob ever.

So did you change your name after you read the interview with Grant interviewing the Superman guy?

You are classic.
 
 
DaveBCooper
10:00 / 04.01.05
Jack Fear wrote:
People think differently about this industry because this industry really is different.

And amongst the other good points you raised, Jack, I think this is the key one; I think it’s unfortunately also the one that bothers me most, because what I’d prefer would be a situation where the comic medium and industry (probably safest to distinguish) is seen in the same way as other media and industries.

Whilst I appreciate that there are many differences between comics and, say, TV, I just wish it was possible for approaches to them to be comparable – then again, I’d like comics to be viewed as (and here I think I may be quoting Ellis, for whom I do fundamentally have a fair amount of time and respect) just another way of telling stories... as opposed to the present situation where they’re dominated by superheroes etc, and even the reading of them is seen as noteworthy in itself. Granted, they’re struggling on a commercial level, so maybe it’s like being a minidisc fan when mp3s are all the rage, but I find it funny on a purely personal level how many times I need to point out to people that I read many more books than I do comics, though the latter are seen as somehow odd or unusual.

I wonder if the reactions of comic fans to certain bits of news or coming attractions rather perpetuate this sense of ‘otherness’, and (I’m thinking of the currently-running John Byrne Forum and ‘Do you know too much about comics?’ threads here) makes the fans seem different in a way that helps to alienate the industry and possible readers. Sure, there are problems of accessibility (both in storytelling terms and those of comics not being on the shelves or spinner racks) and the like, but I just wonder if to some extent the ‘difference’ of the comic industry is worn as such a badge of pride that the more outspoken fans could be seen as some of the worst ambassadors for it.

It’s probably my wide-eyed naivete, but it’d be nice to think that comics could be just another medium, and seen as such, without the sense that there’s a different mindset to wrap your head around. I may well be extrapolating optimistically from my own reactions, which tend to be the same when Geoff Johns or David Goyer sign exclusive contracts in their chosen media; it’s interesting, but not something that gets me particularly fired up.

What I guess all the above is, in a longwinded way, saying, is that if the comics medium is to be treated in a similar way to other media (and I believe that’s a desirable thing), maybe comic readers (or, perhaps more specifically, comic fans) need to be seen to view the industry (that distinction again) in a fashion similar to that of other forms of expression.

And in response to Stoatie’s comments about Harlan Ellison on B5, Ellison has worked on quite a few TV shows of this nature before – Star Trek most famously, but Outer Limits, New Twilight Zone, and Man from UNCLE as well, so he’s not a stranger to such things. But Ellison’s a veritable Niagara of words in various media, so perhaps it’s not surprising. Though maybe he’s a good example of the kind of writer who sees comics as just one more means by which to tell tales ? Dunno, I’m biased, he’s one of my favourite writers.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:23 / 04.01.05
It wasn't so much that Ellison was working in TV- I just hate Babylon 5!
 
 
_Boboss
11:25 / 04.01.05
don't even mention his name or venture an opinion - ellison WILL sue
 
 
DaveBCooper
11:40 / 04.01.05
I feel pretty confident he won’t sue me for saying he deserves all his awards, and is a gifted and passionate writer.
Now, if I were to post the entirety of ‘The Glass Teat’, on the other hand (and of course, 'The Other Glass Teat' on the other other hand)… but that’d be fair, I feel.
 
 
Dicodisco
14:02 / 05.01.05
First glimpse of Vince's art for this title, thanks to some French scanner (even from the shittiest angle):

 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
17:23 / 12.01.05
I am soooooo fucking hot for this....
 
 
FinderWolf
17:40 / 12.01.05
I know, I just can't wait for it.
 
 
The Falcon
01:00 / 13.01.05
I’d like comics to be viewed as (and here I think I may be quoting Ellis, for whom I do fundamentally have a fair amount of time and respect) just another way of telling stories...

I wholly doubt this will happen in your lifetime or mine, given the ingrained public perception (certainly in the UK and, I'm fairly sure, the US & Canada) of them as innately 'for kids + weirdoes'. Likewise, animation.

But so what?
 
 
FinderWolf
16:30 / 30.01.05
The new Wizard has a few more Quitely Supes sketches, mostly headshots, and Quitely and Mozz quotes. Mozz mentions that in their Bizarro issue, we will see the Bizarro JLA on the Bizarro Cube homeworld. He makes some jokes about Bizarro Green Lantern, whose ring can create anything he thinks of, only being able to think of cheese and something else equally mundane.

Quitely says Morrison came up with a new version of the "S" logo which Quitely thought would look like shit, but when he saw it he actually kind of liked it, but that it's such a famous icon he doesn't think it should be changed at all (nor will DC let them change it, most likely).

Quitely also notes that Morrison pointed out in the Curt Swan era and afterwards, Supes' cape was not much longer than his bum or knees. The cape grew in length more in the 70s and 80s. Quitely thought Mozz was crazy at first til he pored through old 40s, 50s and 60s Superman comics and realized Mozz was totally right. So the cape will be a bit shorter than we're used to in All-Star Supes.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:32 / 31.01.05
The Wizard article had sketches of the Superman logo which might have been Morrison's idea for a new S logo...they were ok but not all that exciting. I say stick with the classic "S" logo, esp. since the book is designed to reach average people and be about the 'classic' incarnations of the characters that the public knows.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
18:15 / 31.01.05
scans, pleez?

maybe they could work with the upcoming movie art dept.... or better not.

they could do away with the cape for all I know, or leave it at knee level. but I won't go into that again. at least not until I see new sketches.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:42 / 31.01.05
I don't have a scanner nor do I have access to one, sorry...
 
 
FinderWolf
16:53 / 14.02.05
Found this randomly on the net somewhere - National Lampoon uses actual Superman covers to show why Superman Is A Dick:

http://www.nationallampoon.com/supermanisadick/default.asp

Also, there's a Mark Waid-written chapter from some 'superheroes and philosophy' book on what makes Superman work and what motivates the character over at Newsarama... decent little piece, nothing earth-shattering.
 
 
Billuccho!
00:40 / 20.02.05
The apparent cover to the first issue is here. The series debuts in September.

Well, I like it. Soft, clear lines, lots of detail, the usual Quitely goodness. Also nice to see that Superman's sitting exactly as the "Superman" Grant met was.

Now I'm just more excited for this project.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
01:18 / 20.02.05
It makes me want to kill myself.
 
  

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